BajaNomad - Returning FMM's

Returning FMM's

Finchaser2020 - 10-21-2015 at 10:34 AM

Well I have always wondered what to do with my FMM when I drive back across the border. I have been told that you have to return them or mail them in. Been told the computer systems are better now and you better follow the rules, whatever that means.

But I have always just deposited them in the trash.

Well now I just saw this on BajaBound.com

Guess I will just keep doing what I have been doing...

2015 FMM Tourist Card Changes
Mexican Immigration
For general information on the FMM "tourist card" view our page, Mexican Tourist Cards/Visas (FMM)

On September 25, 2015 Baja Bound attended a forum hosted by the Otay Mesa Chamber of Commerce. Rudolfo Figueroa, a federal delegate for the Instituto Nacional de Migración (INM or National Institute of Immigration) for the Baja region was the guest speaker. Rudolfo presented new operational changes that have been enacted for frequent visitors to maintain valid FMM immigration status.

Important results from the forum:

All visitors are legally required to obtain an FMM to visit Mexico regardless of the destination and length of stay.
The same FMM may be used to enter and exit multiple times through any land border crossing in the state of Baja California. Therefore you may get an FMM for the maximum 180 day term available, and then use it to cross back and forth for an unlimited number of times during that period. The FMM may not be reused at ports of entry outside of Baja California, nor will you be able to reuse it for air travel from a foreign airport into any destination in Mexico.
The FMM does not have to be returned to an immigration official when leaving Baja California by land.
A new FMM may be issued consecutively after one expires. This means that there is no waiting period.

Kirk

BajaGeoff - 10-21-2015 at 02:49 PM

Here is the link to the full article Baja Bound put together from the forum we recently attended where INM delegate Rudolfo Figueroa presented the recent FMM changes...

http://www.bajabound.com/before/permits/fmm_changes.php

sancho - 10-21-2015 at 02:51 PM

Saw the 'newer' Mex Immigration info posted on bajabound's
site, a couple places recently. Most of us have used the fmm
and the previous fmt, for mulitiple entries and have not made
it a point to return them. So this info doesn't change much, but
it is nice to know that Mex Imm has APPARENTLY taken this
position. Peds crossing into TJ recently have sucessfully used the fmm for mulitiple entries. Now whether every Mex Imm officer from TJ to Algondones has gotten the memo? Hopefully this puts an end
to the single/mulitiple entry debate, and the returning the
fmm debate. But however accurate this is, it is still a bit second
hand. Well, just read bajabound's email sent to it's users, so I take that back, the info comes from Mex Imm
directly, so I'll take it as fact

[Edited on 10-21-2015 by sancho]

[Edited on 10-21-2015 by sancho]

BajaGeoff - 10-21-2015 at 04:25 PM

Here is the contact info for the INM office in Tijuana if any Nomads would like to inquire directly:

http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php?page/Contacto_Baja_Californi...

Our article was a means to clear up some of the confusion lately about the FMM. It basically summed up what Rudolfo presented on behalf of the INM at the forum we attended last month.

Bajahowodd - 10-21-2015 at 04:41 PM

It's nice to know that those of us who travel beyond the border zone will no longer have to worry about whether we should be returning the FMM upon return. That said, I do have to wonder if the new rules may have a chilling effect on Tijuana day trippers. Wasn't quite clear as to whether walk ins would have to get one on the way in.

BajaGeoff - 10-21-2015 at 04:56 PM

Yes Bajahowodd....

Visitors walking across the border at the El Chaparral (Tijuana) port of entry are now required to have their passport or passport card and are asked to fill out the FMM and pay the fee if necessary. The Otay Mesa crossing will follow suit as soon as the new border facility at that location is completed.

Bajahowodd - 10-22-2015 at 03:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

Saw the 'newer' Mex Immigration info posted on bajabound's
site, a couple places recently. Most of us have used the fmm
and the previous fmt, for mulitiple entries and have not made
it a point to return them. So this info doesn't change much, but
it is nice to know that Mex Imm has APPARENTLY taken this
position. Peds crossing into TJ recently have sucessfully used the fmm for mulitiple entries. Now whether every Mex Imm officer from TJ to Algondones has gotten the memo? Hopefully this puts an end
to the single/mulitiple entry debate, and the returning the
fmm debate. But however accurate this is, it is still a bit second
hand. Well, just read bajabound's email sent to it's users, so I take that back, the info comes from Mex Imm
directly, so I'll take it as fact

[Edited on 10-21-2015 by sancho]

[Edited on 10-21-2015 by sancho]

Previously to what are the new rules, if you make another crossing by car, no one would ask to see your FMM, so it has always been, even if by default, good for 180 days.

We had always tossed out FMM (FMT) in the trash when it expired and never had a problem getting a new one next visit.

My only concern is that when we make a crossing next week, will this rule have created a backup slowing our Southward progress down? The last few times we went into the IMM office there, we were the only people there and were greatly expedited, including the help of the IMM officer who took our money.

BajaGeoff - 10-22-2015 at 04:15 PM

I hear you Bajahowodd....I guess time will tell. There is an online option to buy and print out the FMM so when you get to the border all you have to do is get it stamped. Unfortunately, we tried the online process ourselves and it is not working properly. We have been in touch with INM to see when it might be working, but nothing to report yet.

bajabuddha - 10-22-2015 at 04:58 PM

Jayzus, just go. What part of "if your FMM is current and you have x-amount of days left, you don't need to check in", and "get a new one when your old one expires", and "throw the old one away" don't people understand?? Or, waste your time finding it out by stopping and asking; it's like waving to a Tecate cop.

The perennial argument is oh-fishully OVER. I hope. :light:

Bajahowodd - 10-23-2015 at 04:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGeoff

I hear you Bajahowodd....I guess time will tell. There is an online option to buy and print out the FMM so when you get to the border all you have to do is get it stamped. Unfortunately, we tried the online process ourselves and it is not working properly. We have been in touch with INM to see when it might be working, but nothing to report yet.

This reminds me of another issue. While folks driving into Mexico have gotten FMMs , and mostly thrown them away, I have always wondered about airline passengers flying into Mexico, who have the cost of the FMM built into their fare. Airlines have confiscated the FMMs upon checking in to a return flight.

So, will there be a change, that allows returning airline passengers to retain their FMMs?

I ask this only because if one can drive or walk across the border frequently for 6 months, if the airlines continue to confiscate the document upon check in it seems to create an apartheid system.

David K - 10-23-2015 at 05:25 PM

Nope... (unless another change) the flying FMM is a different deal than the land traveling (automobile) FMM.

Finchaser2020 - 10-24-2015 at 11:07 AM

It is so funny because it should be a very simple thing. But their government (and all governments for that matter) seems to just want to make it complicated.

I just make it a point to always have one when I go down, can never hurt. Takes 10 minutes out of your trip. And you are so screwed if something goes sideways down there and you have no FMM.

Just tell me if I need to turn it in or not.

Simple.

I am thinking this article has put that question to bed for me...

At least for now......sigh

Kirk

David K - 10-24-2015 at 11:20 AM

Good point Kirk.

Now, have we ever read a (first hand) report of anyone getting "screwed" for not having an FMM where/ when they are supposed to?

YES!

Nomad edm1 (Art) and his wife traveled from Mexicali to La Paz in July, 2011. At Mexicali, they both stopped at INM to obtain their tourist cards and it was then discovered his wife's passport had just expired... the INM officer would NOT issue her a tourist card. They tried all kinds of options, but the INM person was not going to do a thing (did he really think her U.S. citizenship ended with the passport or she was a different person traveling with her husband?).

Their motorhome was loaded for a long trip down Baja, and they just reasoned they would deal with it if it ever was an issue further south. Well, at the INM checkpoint at the Eagle Monument (near Guerrero Negro) they were FINED US$100 for her not having one. I am going to guess that INM agent bought his wife a nice present soon after!

Anyway, Art paid and they had a nice vacation in La Paz with BajaTripper and Zully.

Bajahowodd - 10-24-2015 at 03:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Nope... (unless another change) the flying FMM is a different deal than the land traveling (automobile) FMM.

It's the same freaking form. Is there some reason to hold the airlines responsible to ensure everyone in is everyone out?

And, if one flies into Mexico and gets an FMM on their flight, which they pay for in the airfare, What happens if a month later, they want to walk across the border? Another $20? Crazy.

okiebaja - 10-24-2015 at 08:33 PM

Two weeks ago I crossed at Otey, and no one was checking or asking about FMM. I walked back into the office there (at 11pm no less) and he happily gave me one for $ 25. I was going to drive to Cabo so I thought I should get one just in case.

I drove down, never once was asked to show papers, just waved through, and made it to Cabo. Wife flew in to Cabo, and when we left she mentioned I needed some form to exit the country. Since this was the first time I had every actually flown out of mexico (vs crossing up north), I was confused. Long story short, I could not get on board or leave unless I gave my FMM to the airline, who I then passed with a ticket to the security folks. So when I come back to TJ/Mexicali in a few months, I guess it will cost me another $ 25. I was also told that if I had not happened to have had the form - I would have been in for a $ 50+ ordeal and would have missed my flight.

This trip (I go every 4-5 mo) is the first one I got an FMM (ensenada is my usual destination), and from what I am reading I will need to get one no matter what? (is that correct)

David K - 10-25-2015 at 09:46 AM

Yes, crazy!
But so many here love big government, more fees and higher taxes! You just can't please all the people, all the time!

Thank you okiebaja, it is clear that the airline FMM is a one time use form (round trip, that is)... and they assume you flew down so you hand it when you flew back. Of course, you drove down... but you see that is the catch... A tourist card holder cannot leave his property in Mexico when he leaves... the car must come back. Tourists are people on a vacation. If you are a part-time resident (have a vacation home in Baja, leave a car in Baja, etc.) then that is a different visa. Since you can't leave a car in Baja and fly back (on a tourist card), you could raise all sorts of questions with INM!

Now, the whole FMM/ FM-3/ FM-2 thing is different... so, you guys who have the correct visa to rent or own a home in Baja, leave a car in Baja, etc., what is that visa called or is there a special stamp for the FMM now that will allow a tourist to become a part-time resident?

bajaguy - 10-25-2015 at 10:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Now, the whole FMM/ FM-3/ FM-2 thing is different... so, you guys who have the correct visa to rent or own a home in Baja, leave a car in Baja, etc., what is that visa called or is there a special stamp for the FMM now that will allow a tourist to become a part-time resident?

FM-2 is now a Residente Permanente
FM-3 is now a Residente Temporal
You need a FMM to start the process for Residente Temporal or Permanente
You can conduct real estate transactions (purchase, lease, rent) with an FMM

There are still permanent residents and temporary residents who think they can scam by with an FMM

mtgoat666 - 10-25-2015 at 10:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Yes, crazy!
But so many here love big government, more fees and higher taxes!

Who here?

David K - 10-25-2015 at 10:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Thank you... Now, let's say okie was being as legal as possible in Mexico and he is getting a Residente Temporal. Was the airline or INM correct to take his FMM from him when he flew out of Los Cabos?

bajaguy - 10-25-2015 at 11:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

I don't know. I have RP status and I have not flown within Mexico.....yet

If he has an RT card/status, he probably doesn't need an FMM

And if you ask INM, you will get conflicting answers

karenintx - 10-25-2015 at 01:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

Quote: Originally posted by David K

I don't know. I have RP status and I have not flown within Mexico.....yet

If he has an RT card/status, he probably doesn't need an FMM

And if you ask INM, you will get conflicting answers

All airlines in all countries around the world are governed by local INM laws/rules. It is not just Mexico.

If you are flying into/out of the country of Mexico and you have a R/P or R/T there is a different way of handling the FMM. Yes, it is the same form tourist fill out however the paperwork is handled "backwards". I have a R/P. When I fly out of SJD I go to the INM office to have the FMM form stamped. The INM agent separates the form then I give the small portion of the form (the right side) to the airline ticket/gate agent. I keep the larger portion of the form (the left side) which I will give to the INM agent the next time I enter the country of Mexico. The reason I call it "backwards"...tourist use the same form but everything is the opposite. The INM takes the left side of the form when they enter the country then the tourist gives the airline the right side of the form when they leave the country.

The airlines are only the middle man for INM. Airlines are required to collect two different kinds of taxes for the country of entry. There is a tourist tax and there is an airport tax. All tourist are required by law to pay the tourist tax & airport tax. If you are a citizen of Mexico, have a R/P or R/T then you are only required to pay the airport tax. "IF" you have a R/P or R/T you can talk with your airline about getting the tourist tax reimbursed...they may require proof of your visa. Flying out of SJD and depending on the pesos this tax could be $40ish USD. Talk with your airline.

As a R/P or R/T, and assuming one has entered the country of Mexico legally then one does not need a "FMM" to travel via airline or by driving inside the country. You may be asked for a FMM but all you need to do is show you R/P or R/T card. When driving locally I keep copies of our R/P cards and a copy of our CFE bill inside the glove compartment.

The exception...the 72 hour rule. I am not talking about the border. A couple of years ago we had some friends that started a 14 day cruise in Florida that ended in Ensenada. Their son needed to depart the cruise to fly out of SJD in order to get back to work. The cruise company was aware that the passenger was getting off the boat early but when I explained to her..."your son will be asked for a tourist FMM in order to get on the plane so you should talk with the cruise company." She emailed me a big thank you. After bringing this to the attention of the cruise company they provided her son the proper paper work explaining the passenger had departed the cruise ship the same day of his airline ticket. Due to the 72 hour rule he was not required to pay the tourist tax but his airline ticket included the airport taxes. He handed the letter/paperwork to the ticket agent at the airline...no questions were asked, he got on the plane.

So, was INM or the airlines correct to take the FMM. When flying the INM requires the airlines to collect the FMM. Of course the passenger always has the right to drive back to the border if they want to keep their FMM.

My Daddy always said..."My House My Rules! Guess the INM feels the same way.

Finchaser2020 - 10-25-2015 at 04:18 PM

And do not even get me started on FMM's for mariners.

That is a whole different can of worms.....

Bajahowodd - 10-25-2015 at 04:35 PM

Does anyone else remember the days when you flew to Mexico and did not have a visa requirement upon entering. But, in order to board your plane out, you were charged an exit fee?

I recall a time when we were in Acapulco back in the 80s when we were approached by a bunch of US youths who had spent almost their last dime partying and were panhandling for cash so they could get on their plane home.

I think the fee back then was $11.

dasubergeek - 10-27-2015 at 04:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Does anyone else remember the days when you flew to Mexico and did not have a visa requirement upon entering. But, in order to board your plane out, you were charged an exit fee?

I recall a time when we were in Acapulco back in the 80s when we were approached by a bunch of US youths who had spent almost their last dime partying and were panhandling for cash so they could get on their plane home.

I think the fee back then was $11.

This still happens for cheap-donkey British package holiday airlines like Thomson and Thomas Cook on packages into Cancún. They don't include the DNI (the fee you pay for the FMM) or airport taxes in the airline ticket the way everyone else does. They actually have their own charter terminal at CUN, too.

So you're a Brit on one of these all-in packages and you land at CUN. You fill out your FMM like you're supposed to, and you do your vacation. Then when it's time to leave you file through a line where you have to put $800 m.n. or the equivalent in sterling into a box.

The Internet is absolutely chock full of Brits complaining about the scam, especially those who go overland to Chetumal and then into El Corozal, Belize, to do some duty-free shopping... they get dinged for their DNI when they leave, and then on the way back they go through normal FMM procedures (like we do on the northern border) and pay AGAIN.