BajaNomad

Seeking photos of Todos Santos first mission site (Santa Rosa de las Palmas)

David K - 11-28-2015 at 03:55 PM

This is located about one mile north of the town plaza (where the mission was moved to in 1825). Last report is was an automotive repair shop or car wash whose walls are the last remains of the mission that was established there in 1733.

This photo from Jack Swords from about 15 years ago is the site:



On a hill next to or very near is this modern (1970) church:



If anyone has photos similar to Jack's that show the auto shop walls and perhaps one with the modern church in the background, etc. I do appreciate it!

Jack Swords - 12-3-2015 at 08:19 PM

You want the car wash too? I didn't photograph it as it was too ugly. Stones around house were from the mission. I'll be down there late Jan & Feb if you want the "ugly" photos.

David K - 12-3-2015 at 10:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
You want the car wash too? I didn't photograph it as it was too ugly. Stones around house were from the mission. I'll be down there late Jan & Feb if you want the "ugly" photos.


Jack, the photos are for historic record and not works of art. Anyway, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Car wash, oil change bay, whatever it is (and I would like to know for the new book)... whatever rock walls or any foundations made for the 1733 mission is what I would like to have a view of.

Sadly, we whizzed past in 2012 before I realized we had gone too far. We didn't even see the 1825 site in the town plaza...

How far from the 1970 church is the old site and how far off the highway is it?

Thank you.

Jack Swords - 12-4-2015 at 07:21 AM

Located next to old highway into town from La Paz. Maybe 1/2 mile from newer site.

David K - 12-4-2015 at 11:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
Located next to old highway into town from La Paz. Maybe 1/2 mile from newer site.


How far is the 1970 church (in the photo above) from the car wash (1733 mission site)? I was under the impression they are next to each other... but maybe not?

4x4abc - 12-4-2015 at 12:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
Located next to old highway into town from La Paz. Maybe 1/2 mile from newer site.


dirt old road?
or
paved old road?

not enough space next to paved old road around 0.5 mi for mission (east side)
west maybe - but it sits low (padres never did that)

David K - 12-4-2015 at 12:44 PM

The distance between the 1733 mission and the 1825 mission is closer to 1 mile. I will double check on Google Earth.

Harald, the car wash/ mechanic shop that is built on the 1733 mission foundations is along the paved highway into Todos. I think Jack implies that it isn't along the new 4-lane highway that goes around town?

David K - 12-4-2015 at 01:13 PM

OK, it is 0.9 mile from the front of the 1970 church (which is next to or near the 1733 mission) to the front of the 1825 mission in the town center.




The mechanic shop is north of the 1970 church and near an overhead sign that welcomes you to Todos Santos. There is another shop or home, closer to the church. Just wondering where Jack's wall photo is in relation to the newer church.

Jack Swords - 12-4-2015 at 06:51 PM

Thanks David, The old road from La Paz is the one that existed for years when we had a house in Todos Santos. And...the new road or bypass does NOT go past the site (which is very near one of the natural springs). .5 or .9 miles, old road/new road, is not worth getting into a spitting contest about. My information came from Sr. Nestor who ran the museum in Todos Santos before it was moved to the old school (Casa Cultura now). There are many interesting historical facts about Todos Santos (including some strange trees supposedly planted by the padres that he showed me). We are headed down the middle of January for a couple of months on our boat and we visit friends in Todos Santos during that time. I'll get you the photos of the two rather adjacent sites at San Juan and try to encompass both together. Assuming the Internet is doing well in the Marina, I'll shoot them up to you.

David K - 12-4-2015 at 08:48 PM

Hi Jack,
The satellite map and 0.9 measured distance was for Harald, I know you have been there... as your photos show us.

I would appreciate seeing the car wash from the 1970 church just so I have an idea of which of the two possible buildings north of the church and next to or near the old highway is the 'car wash' (1733 mission walls).

Some books say that 1970 church is on the 1733 mission grounds... I just want to know.

Todos Santos is a very unusual mission location because it was home to a visita of Mission Pilar de La Paz and the location of two missions during different years! I want to clear up any confusion about it in the new book.

Thank you!!!

[Edited on 12-5-2015 by David K]

Jack Swords - 12-5-2015 at 07:39 AM

I'll photograph the new church at San Juan and nearby stuff for you. I'll take the GPS and get accurate locations too. Any other suggestions while we are down there?

David K - 12-5-2015 at 10:36 AM

What is San Juan?

Any fresh photos at mission sites would be great.

I have a good one I took at Santiago in 2012. San José del Cabo only got from the parking lot, double parked, no parking. A close up of the mural over the door maybe, if you go there.

The Todos Santos 1825 mission church from the same angle as this 1919 photo would be great...

Jack Swords - 12-5-2015 at 11:14 AM

http://www.mexonline.com/bcs/todossantos-activities-attracti...

Last paragraph (San Juan)

David K - 12-5-2015 at 01:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
http://www.mexonline.com/bcs/todossantos-activities-attracti...

Last paragraph (San Juan)


At the east end of town, about a mile from the central area of Todos Santos is San Juan. where Todos Santos was originally founded. Although the Indians burned the first church, the chapel on the hill was built on the original site.

East? More north than "east."

Interesting... in the Lower California Guidebook, first edition (1956) and all later editions, calls the original site ("about a mile above the town") "Misión Vieja"... and goes on to say "a few stones are pointed out as the ruins"

There is a ranch less than a half mile north from Misión Vieja called San Juan del Llano. I wonder if more recent Internet writers or area residents applied that ranch name to the old site?

Thank you Jack, first time I recall hearing San Juan applied to anything about the Todos Santos first site.



[Edited on 12-6-2015 by David K]

David K - 12-6-2015 at 10:26 AM

Photo from 1957 of the 1825 mission church:

Jack Swords - 12-6-2015 at 12:27 PM

But you want the previous angle, right? Besides, the trees are all grown up now.

The church at San Juan is what locals called the old mission site from back in the early 80's (the modern one). Possibly the name one of the colonias. As you drive out of town on the old highway it is "easterly" since it is away from the ocean. I'll get coordinates and photos This is the first winter we have spent at home in CA for 15 years and I don't like it...too cold, wearing long pants in the AM. Missing La Paz...

David K - 12-6-2015 at 03:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
But you want the previous angle, right? Besides, the trees are all grown up now.

The church at San Juan is what locals called the old mission site from back in the early 80's (the modern one). Possibly the name one of the colonias. As you drive out of town on the old highway it is "easterly" since it is away from the ocean. I'll get coordinates and photos This is the first winter we have spent at home in CA for 15 years and I don't like it...too cold, wearing long pants in the AM. Missing La Paz...


Seriously, right? What are you doing up here when you have La Paz for the winter!?? LOL

Thanks, it would be great to see where the 1970 church on the hill is in relation to the car wash (1733 mission site), or vice a verse a ! The book is nearing completion, but that doesn't mean it is ready for the printer... I will be tinkering it for awhile, and changing how things look, etc.

This sure has been an interesting experience and allowed me to be in control of the details. As you know, the Old Missions book was Max's format and creation and he invited me to join in and allowed me to add to or improve the data on the 27 Baja missions. However, there was limited room for content and he did all the typing in of data I gave him... so this new book on only the 27 Baja missions will have a more refined appearance indeed.

Most photos in it are from you and from me, plus several from Kevin in Oklahoma, as well as from Amy M., Dr. Robert Jackson, and historical photos from Howard Gulick and others from almost 100 years ago.

I would love it if it could have color photos and maps on glossy paper, but I fear the cost is so much the book would be out-priced? We do have contact with the company that did Ed Vernon's all color books... and maybe other leads, besides our printer in El Cajon.