BajaNomad

San Ignacio petroglyph guides

Aldervale - 12-6-2015 at 08:54 PM

Howdy

We have taken a look at Kuyimas website for their mule trips to see the petroglyphs near San Ignacio.

It is a little worrisome that this might involve larger groups of, well, tourists, and this is an experience we hope to avoid.

Does anyone know of another destination or a smaller company available to guide?

We are looking for any opportunity to get back country and out of our truck....mules would be great.

Our interests are history and natural history.....this is our second camping trip to BCS.

Many thanks for any ideas.

Aldervale

mtgoat666 - 12-6-2015 at 10:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Aldervale  
Howdy

We have taken a look at Kuyimas website for their mule trips to see the petroglyphs near San Ignacio.

It is a little worrisome that this might involve larger groups of, well, tourists, and this is an experience we hope to avoid.

Does anyone know of another destination or a smaller company available to guide?

We are looking for any opportunity to get back country and out of our truck....mules would be great.

Our interests are history and natural history.....this is our second camping trip to BCS.

Many thanks for any ideas.

Aldervale


Tourist want to avoid tourists. Not possible,... Well, perhaps in daesh Syria, eh? Ha, ha!

Very few tourist do the mule trips to the sierras. You are very unlikely to have company. But if you did it would probably be interesting people, it's not a tourism "thing" that many people try, the people that do it won't be RVers or cruise ship rubes. Talk to kuyima or whoever you choose, and design the trip you want. Tell them you want a private trip and that's what they'll give you.

bajabuddha - 12-7-2015 at 12:39 AM

Pictographs, not petroglyphs. NO offense meant. Happy trails...:coolup:

BajaBlanca - 12-7-2015 at 07:09 AM

you will certainly be on your own with luyima, but if you want a smaller company to take you, try gary and terri from the yurts:

http://ignaciosprings.com/



Address: #77 Poniente, 23930 San Ignacio, Baja California Sur

Phone:01 615 154 0333

PaulW - 12-7-2015 at 08:41 AM

In a two weeks we are heading south to visit many not so traveled places. We will use gary and terri to get us organized for the subject visit. - 2 couples. We will spend a couple of weeks total on our way to/from Del Cabo. Some camping, but mostly hoteling.
Paul

wilderone - 12-7-2015 at 01:59 PM

The mule trip from San Franciso into the canyons can be arranged on your own. Get permits in San Ignacio INAH office. They will tell you which rancho will be your guide. Drive to San Franciso and check in the "office" there. They will contact your rancho and you make arrangements with them. If you intend to do this, pack your camping stuff in something like military duffle bags or duffles that can be strapped to a donkey. Include all your food, camping stove, etc. If you bring some food for guides that would be appreciated.

For: "any opportunity to get back country and out of our truck", there are many such opportunities in the Sierra Gigante out of Loreto. Several ranchos, mission sites. From the San Javier mission - taking the main road south, there are several places to explore - a biosphere reserve around Los Corrales. Going north (from the turnoff to the mission) toward Palo Chino turn right or left around there for some fun exploring. Visit with the rancheros in the area - they're happy for the company. Just go.

INAH office San Ignacio contact ?

Aldervale - 12-7-2015 at 04:22 PM

Muy Bien

Do you know of contact info for INAH in San Ignacio ?

I could only find a web site for the national office itself.

Many thanks for the info....have you traveled this path to some of the historical sites.....directly thru INAH ?

Aldervale

David K - 12-7-2015 at 06:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Aldervale  
Muy Bien

Do you know of contact info for INAH in San Ignacio ?

I could only find a web site for the national office itself.

Many thanks for the info....have you traveled this path to some of the historical sites.....directly thru INAH ?

Aldervale


Thought I had is somewhere... but, if nobody else produces it, I think Juanita (a Nomad here) may help... email and phone number at her Casa Leree Inn in San Ignacio: http://casaleree.com/index.html

BajaBlanca - 12-7-2015 at 06:34 PM

Casa Leree closed down -Juanita retired! But she can probably provide the phone number.

wilderone - 12-11-2015 at 04:57 PM

The office is just down the street from the mision - same side of the street - a little hole in the wall. They look at your ID, you pay for the permit, a permit if you want to take photos. I don't know their "office hours" and have only just dropped in the office.
"....have you traveled this path to some of the historical sites.....directly thru INAH ?"
INAH issues the permits - the rancheros are the guides, and INAH people contact the guides on a rotation. I don't believe INAH actually gives tours. We got permits, etc. the night before and drove (back track) to San Francisco (the villae is so small, anyone can tell you where to check in). Then we spent the night (camped) close to the rancho we were supposed to hook up with. Went to the ranch the next day and negotiated how many mules we needed, if we were going to supply any food for the guides, and if we were riding a mule (in our case, no - we walked). You pay for each mule, each guide. We spent three nights in Santa Teresita canon to see the most well known cave murals. We went to 5 or 6 sites - you can see most of them in that area in two full days. We walked into the canyon with a guide, and the mules came along later after the guides packed them up. You can ride of course, but I can only take hourse/mule back for about 3 hrs.

David K - 12-11-2015 at 08:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
Casa Leree closed down -Juanita retired! But she can probably provide the phone number.


Wow, without any notice to us on the Internet? Bummer!

Her website is still online without any changes: http://casaleree.com/index.html

Paulina - 12-12-2015 at 09:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Aldervale  
Howdy

We have taken a look at Kuyimas website for their mule trips to see the petroglyphs near San Ignacio.

It is a little worrisome that this might involve larger groups of, well, tourists, and this is an experience we hope to avoid.

Does anyone know of another destination or a smaller company available to guide?

We are looking for any opportunity to get back country and out of our truck....mules would be great.

Our interests are history and natural history.....this is our second camping trip to BCS.

Many thanks for any ideas.

Aldervale


If you want to do it yourself, and are experienced baja/back country campers, this is what a small group of friends and I did this past spring;

We arranged our own trip with Ramon Arce, also known as "Mata" to most. His wife's name is Gloria. Currently the easiest way to contact him without driving up to Rancho Guadalupe is to phone Ramon Francisco Arce Zuniga (Chico), or his wife Yadira at Hostel Buenaventura (www.sierrasanfrancisco.com). In San Friancisco, 01 615 156 4747, or email them at chicoarzu1976@hotmail.com. Chico can radio Ramon with messages or arrange for him to come to the phone at a predetermined time. It is important to note, they neither write nor speak English and their written Spanish is prett basic.

When we went the fees for guides and their animals were set at $200 pesos per day per guide and $150 pesos per day per animal. Each person pays for two animals per day, your mule and your burro that will carry your camping gear and food. You will supply your own food as well as food for the guides. At that time INAH set those fees and that hadn't changed for at least 10 years and so are QUITE low. A generous tip at the end of your experience is most appreciated and will help their families live more securely.

If you do choose to arrange your own trip with Ramon or other Sierra guides you will need to notify them in advance as some permits require advance notice.

Regarding food, as I said, you are responsible for providing meals for yourself and the guides if you don't go with a tour group. They don't consider granola bars a meal. They also love coffee in the morning and DO NOT forget the sugar. There is good drinking water available in the canyon so you will only have to carry enough for the trip down. You may also wish to take beer and boxed wine as most of the guides will happily help you drink it in the evenings around the campfire.

Ramon and Gloria are wonderful people and very accommodating. There is a small, one room rock bunk house with three beds where you can sleep the night before you leave. You will need to take everything you need for your trip; tent, chair, sleeping gear, ice chest, cooking gear, solar shower for hand/dish washing. We were in the canyon for 3 nights. I will post a more detailed version of our trip in another report.

When you drive up to San Francisco you will find it pretty small. Someone will direct you to the office to pay the small INIH permit fee and another small photo fee. I can't remember what we paid, but it was as much as $200 pesos. They will give you a receipt. Ramon will drive from Rancho Guadalupe to meet you there and guide you back to his ranch if you ask him to.

It was an experience I will never forget and would do again in a heart beat. I have put it on my to do list for every spring break once I retire.

P>*)))>{





Ramon is on the left








[Edited on 12-12-2015 by Paulina]

Aldervale - 12-12-2015 at 10:53 PM

Many, many, thanks for the details of the matter !


David and Hope

Aldervale, Oregon

ElCap - 12-13-2015 at 09:28 AM

I too would recommend Ramon, I have done three different trips with him as our guide. Paulina gave a great description of the trip, but I'll just mention of few more tips/comments. Ramon has very limited English, but he is an incredible communicator - his passion for that place will shine through. He also has an incredible singing voice, and he may just play air guitar using a palm frond if you are lucky. As for gear and food provisions - don't skimp. The burros carry all the gear, and it's worth it to pay for an extra burro if needed. Bring camp chairs, camp stove, cots. If you like booze, bring some for the campfire, but be prepared to share with the guides. Bring good food, and lots of it - you'll be working up an appetite and the guides eat ALOT (you'll also see the guides will have their own stash of food - probably learned from trips with clueless clients). We have stayed at his rancho the night prior to departure down the canyon, but I prefer to drive up from San Ignacio the morning of. Whether you go with Ramon or another guide (their is a pool of them that live up there), you will have a true Baja adventure. Enjoy. You can U2U me if you want more specific info.

David K - 12-13-2015 at 10:05 AM

Wonderful information!

A fun preview to the experience might be to watch the film 'Bajo California: The Limit of Time'. The entire movie is on You Tube and it is a visual movie without a lot of Spanish if you do not understand Spanish. There was a version shown on Sundance Channel with English subtitles, but we don't have that online, as of yet? Filmed about 1998:

As an Update

Aldervale - 12-24-2015 at 04:32 PM

Greetings and Feliz Navidad,

As an update for those who may wish to visit the petroglyphs near Sierra San Francisco....

We recently called Jesus at the INAH museo in San Ignacio.

He was glad to make reservations for us for tickets, guides and mules.

He was very helpful with Spanglish equal to my own...conversant about what food to share etc.

Finally, he said we could drive directly to San Francisco and make our payments there rather than backtrack from San Igancio.

Heading out around Jan.10th.

Aldervale

ooops pictograghs

Aldervale - 12-24-2015 at 04:34 PM

ooops......pictograghs......of course...

Bajahowodd - 12-25-2015 at 05:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Wonderful information!

A fun preview to the experience might be to watch the film 'Bajo California: The Limit of Time'. The entire movie is on You Tube and it is a visual movie without a lot of Spanish if you do not understand Spanish. There was a version shown on Sundance Channel with English subtitles, but we don't have that online, as of yet? Filmed about 1998:



Too bad that the video resolution is so bad. Any idea where to find a better copy?

David K - 12-25-2015 at 08:59 PM

The DVD is for sale in Baja I have been told.
The edition shown on Sundance with English subtitles remains a mystery, however.

jbcoug - 12-25-2015 at 11:29 PM

Aldervale,

Thanks fir the information! What number did you use to reach the person at INAH?

INAH Museo San Ignacio

Aldervale - 12-26-2015 at 05:57 PM

We called 52 615 154 0222.

There is a very good website here:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/714

http://sierrasanfrancisco.com/ing/index.php?secc=como

One must ad the country code 52 when calling and you may want some Spanish or use a translator prior to calling to get some idea of what you want to say.

Jesus needed specific dates for our visit in order to reserve tickets to access the cave paintings.

There is also excellent info on Baja Nomad by using the search function for cave paintings.

Aldervale

gsbotanico - 12-27-2015 at 12:03 PM

Our group also used Ramón Arce. He's a terrific guy. In the canyon he would get up in the dark in the morning to round up the mules. I would get up in the dark and start heating water for coffee when he came back. Yes, have sugar.

The hike down and back up is rigorous, and even riding a mule, there are parts steep and rocky enough to require dismounting. There's about a 3000 foot drop in altitude to the canyon bottom. If a tour group is used, the number of others in the group will be small and have similar interest. I wouldn't worry about that. Each participant needs to be self sufficient in food, water, and equipment. I recommend a pair of hiking poles and one of those hand-pumped water filters. There is water in the bottom of the canyon.

I did the trip when LED flashlights were brand new. Ramón took a fancy to the brilliant light of the flashlight in the dark mornings. I held back until we were getting ready to leave. I went to his house and gave it to him. He got the biggest smile on his face. My Spanish is good, so I did a lot of talking with him, especially about his family history. Arce is one of the original Spanish surnames in Baja and the residents in his rancho are considered the original Californios, descendants of the first Spanish to enter Baja.

when did you visit St Teresa Canyon

Aldervale - 12-27-2015 at 01:09 PM

We wondered when you visited the San Francisco de la Sierra area and a general idea of the weather and temps you saw?

We have cold and wet weather gear but from years of travel we try to keep it light.....

How cold can it likely get at 5000 feet in mid January?

I am sure this will get a lively discussion but all comments welcome!

Aldervale

ElCap - 12-27-2015 at 01:48 PM

I have done the trip three times, at different times of the year - each time with Ramon. It can get darn cold up there, and you should also be prepared for rain - the first time I didn't bring the fly for my tent, so of course it rained the first night. The burros will be carrying your gear, so better to be prepared.

Good Ole burros

Aldervale - 12-27-2015 at 01:52 PM

Thanks

Yes it looks like Los Burros really earn their pesos.

We thought we would buy our extra grub at a tienda in Vizcaino in order to get what the guide might like most....

We have heard, machaca, tortillas, coffee and sugar.

?Que Mas?

gracias

Aldervale - 12-27-2015 at 01:56 PM

Can anyone recommend any reference materials for las Pinturas Repuestos ? ....we have been looking for any real solid info or research that has been do about these sites and have not found much.

We have visited lots of the southwestern Pc and Petroglyph sites.

Once again

! Gracias !

David K - 12-27-2015 at 03:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Aldervale  
Can anyone recommend any reference materials for las Pinturas Repuestos ? ....we have been looking for any real solid info or research that has been do about these sites and have not found much.

We have visited lots of the southwestern Pc and Petroglyph sites.

Once again

! Gracias !


Here are a few I can think of...



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Three Editions of this:






Muy Bien David' !perfecto Libros!

Aldervale - 12-27-2015 at 04:04 PM

Thanks David

Any online sources shout out at ya ?

Aldervale

David K - 12-27-2015 at 04:13 PM

Just do a search on the Internet.

ElCap - 12-27-2015 at 05:35 PM

If you have a chance before you head up, stop by Casa Leree in San Ignacio and visit Juanita. She does not rent out rooms anymore (I think?), but she maintains a large library of all things Baja, and she will have plenty of local info for you.

Casa Leree

Aldervale - 12-27-2015 at 07:02 PM

Thanks

We will be in the south for about three weeks.

Bajaboy - 3-6-2016 at 10:11 AM

We have a trip reserved and looking forward to it. I've been waiting to go until my kids were old enough to join. So to say I'm excited would be an understatement!