BajaNomad

More on Insurance

Osprey - 1-7-2016 at 09:35 AM

Some thoughts on Insurance

If you live in the small town of Pine Creek, for example, drive there, buy your insurance there and have a fender bender there you are surrounded by cops you know, drive-in claims offices, friendly, prompt adjusters and usually things go pretty smooth. If you travel to the prairies along the Canadian border and have a serious accident things are not so comfy. Even worse if you go to another country with a special policy not in your language.

An accident in the boonies in Mexico puts you right in front of cops who are underpaid, underappreciated and undertrained and often have no clue about traffic laws in their district, insurance contracts, police reports and your all important PROOF OF LOSS. It is usually universal that the proof of loss is the burden of the insured --- if you can’t verify, with civil authority, what happened, whether you were negligent or not, to what extent you or your property have been injured or damaged, you have no claim.

Some Nomads seem to be blurry on who can help you in case of this dilemma; all the insurer can do is beg for a formal police report to open a claim, get it organized, pay it, go on to the next one. I don’t think you would want the agent to further muddy the water --- he has no authority to act as your agent/adjuster in the handling of or settling of claims.

In a lot of situations in Mexico, if you don’t know the language, you need a translator and/or an attorney. Both of them would be working for you directly, be paid by you, not under the aegis of the insurer or others. What else would you do if the police refuse to issue a police report? What insurer will process a claim without some formal signed proof?

In Whaleista’s case who could force the police to hold the uninsured wrongdoer until estimates were made of the damage and money was received for repairs? The attorney. Who might have unraveled the mystery of where medical services could be received so the insured could recover from her carrier? The attorney.

What would make any of you believe the adjuster or the agent could force the police to do anything regarding the processing of the information, the claim? Why would any of you blame the insurer for things the authorities did or did not do?

You can read all the fine print until you go blind but your time would be better spent reaching out to Rolly Brook and co or some other Mexican law authority to find out WHAT DUTIES POLICE ARE CHARGED WITH IN THE JURISDICTIONS YOU PLAN TO VISIT.

Where I live the police would have orders to move both vehicles to the nearest commandancia holding yard and call a repair vendor for estimates. The police have orders to call a fee translator to aid any party to the accident who does not speak Spanish. The police must protect the property of the vehicle owners, keep the people safe and if they are injured, help them reach proper medical facilities. The police have the power to hold all parties to the infraction --- they are not released until restitution has been made in pesos.

Given all that, police don’t always know the rules or follow them. It is a very hit and miss business. Here, if my house were burglarized, I would go to the commandancia, report the burglary, explain what was taken, give them the particulars, the values. I would offer an outrageous reward and I would go home to wait. Would not be long till I get some action because the police either have my goods or know exactly who in the village has them. In short order they will bring them to me, I’ll pay them a small part of what I offered.

Whaleista might have pulled the truck out of traffic, cleared her head, slowly pulled back on the roadway and left the scene. Who’s gonna chase her? She was the injured party, a gringa, in a truck. A lot less worry and wait, worry and wait. The lady who hit her had no money and no insurance so one could sue her all day but to what end?

You might see gringos doing that same thing. Might be me cause I’ve been there, done that.


[Edited on 1-7-2016 by Osprey]

El Jefe - 1-7-2016 at 09:52 AM

Nailed it. This is how it is folks. I have always considered insurance something to keep me out of jail. Nothing more and nothing less. I get liability only and drive a car I can afford to replace. When you get hit it will be by somebody without insurance, that you can pretty much count on.

wilderone - 1-7-2016 at 10:46 AM

"In a lot of situations in Mexico, if you don’t know the language, you need a translator and/or an attorney. Both of them would be working for you directly, be paid by you, not under the aegis of the insurer or others."

In your Mexican insurance policy read the sections:
"Legal assistance in case of suffering any type of crime"
Legal assistance in case of property damage or bodily injury against third parties"
"Legal assistance in case of death"
"Automobile accident assistance and legal defense"
"Legal assistance in case of any type of accident"

Vis a vis the above, excerpted language:
"the Company will conduct through any of its lawyers the insured's freedoms through the corresponding administrative and/or judicial authorities:
"the Company will process all proceedings with the Public Authorities to integrate the investigation, etc"
"the Company will guarantee the presence of a lawyer to legally defend and assess the insured, in any civil or criminial process due to a car accident"
"In case a bond is required to liberate the insured, such bond will not exceed US$30,000 ..."
"The company shall pay all costs and expenses derived from the insured vehicle driver's legal defense"
"the Company, through its lawyers will assist the insured and/or the occupants or their legal representatives, to make all corresponding legal accusations with the corresponding authorities, etc."

Sounds to me that interaction with the police on your behalf is required under the policy terms, and not unilateral. Read and understand your policy. The above contained in an ACE Seguros policy. It is in English.

shari - 1-7-2016 at 10:48 AM

When I lived in Guerrero Negro, I often got called by the police to translate for traffic accidents as they are supposed to provide a translator. I have a rather funny story...well more than one...but this one is particularly interesting.

A woman traveling with her elderly parents hit a very drunk guy on a bicycle...he was weaving all over the highway and it was either hit him or go off the road and maybe flip the car.

So, she waited ages for an ambulance that never came and so being a nurse, she stabilized the victim and took him to hospital with a hurt leg.

At the police station, the cops agreed to let them stay in a hotel instead of jail while the fellow got medical attention...they first said they had to amputate his leg. This was cause for a real commotion.

The jefe told me I should tell all gringos that if they run over someone, they should make sure to back over him to finish him off. I llaughed and then he told me he was serious! He said, if you injure someone, you may have to pay the family damages the rest of his life if he cant work again...but if he dies...you only pay one lump sum!

Whoa! He also told me that most people if they can walk...run away from the scene of an accident so as not to be financially responsible...hence we see empty vehicles after an accident.

Just something to keep in mind

Osprey - 1-7-2016 at 11:17 AM

Wilderone, that's what I said, read the fine print BUT as a practical matter all policies are different and at the scene is where you need help sometimes and a local attorney can show a quick legal presence that can be invaluable. If the fine print rings true the insured need only point that out to the insurer when he or she submits the paid attorney's bill for reimbursement.

TMW - 1-7-2016 at 01:16 PM

I've had a truck totaled and Mexican Insurance paid off.

I've had a truck damaged and Mexican insurance paid to have it fixed in the U.S. and that's another story.

I hit the back of a Van crossing in San Luis at slow speed and just a scratch, really. Cop came looked it over and talked to woman. Woman calls someone on cell phone and says she wants $180. My friend and I only had $146. Cop talks to woman and she accepts it. Off we go.

I hit the back of a bus in Mexicali and damage the bumper. Cops come bus driver wants $200 for damage and I pay him. Cops say they smell alcohol on my breath and give me a choice of a night in jail or $100. I pay the $100. A little later while while being towed by a tow strap along border another set of cops stop us and say it is illegal to tow by strap along the border but for $150 they will let us go. I need an ATM. No problem we follow cops to ATM pay the $150 and follow cops back to border line where they let us back in.
Back home my U.S. insurance company totals truck and pays me.

That's my experience with Mexican insurance and Mexican cops. One thing to remember is that in all cases no one was hurt.

US insurance paid for you Mexican accident?

akshadow - 1-7-2016 at 02:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
I've had a truck totaled and Mexican Insurance paid off.

I've had a truck damaged and Mexican insurance paid to have it fixed in the U.S. and that's another story.
. A little later while while being towed by a tow strap along border another set of cops stop us and say it is illegal to tow by strap along the border but for $150 they will let us go. I need an ATM. No problem we follow cops to ATM pay the $150 and follow cops back to border line where they let us back in.
Back home my U.S. insurance company totals truck and pays me.

That's my experience with Mexican insurance and Mexican cops. One thing to remember is that in all cases no one was hurt.

This ain't my first insurance rodeo (or shoot-out) in Baja!

Whale-ista - 1-7-2016 at 03:10 PM

Thanks for the remarks.

I'll keep this short as I fill out some paperwork related to this accident, and simply say:

I've been down this X-border insurance road before, when living in Ensenada. My house was broken into, several times. Personal items and SCUBA gear was stolen, threats were made, and my insurance company required a police report to process the claim.

It took weeks, maybe months, for the local police to take the report, and enter it by hand into a big paper logbook that looked like it was from the 1800s.

The final document may have been handwritten on a scroll... (this was 20 years ago) but in the end I was compensated for the loss.

As for the criminals, well... let's just say, the old cartels had, uh, effective ways of cutting out the middlemen when they crossed a certain line. Someone sent a "messenger" down to El Sauzal to make a deal. The break=ins stopped!

(details here: http://articles.latimes.com/1998/sep/19/news/mn-24394)

This time: the municipal police were using electronic devices to input the info, my cell phone didn't weigh 7 pounds, and no drugs or weapons are involved.

All in all= easy peasy. Times have changed!

Now- back to my paperwork. I will post more later.

mtgoat666 - 1-7-2016 at 03:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
I've had a truck totaled and Mexican Insurance paid off.

I've had a truck damaged and Mexican insurance paid to have it fixed in the U.S. and that's another story.

I hit the back of a Van crossing in San Luis at slow speed and just a scratch, really. Cop came looked it over and talked to woman. Woman calls someone on cell phone and says she wants $180. My friend and I only had $146. Cop talks to woman and she accepts it. Off we go.

I hit the back of a bus in Mexicali and damage the bumper. Cops come bus driver wants $200 for damage and I pay him. Cops say they smell alcohol on my breath and give me a choice of a night in jail or $100. I pay the $100. A little later while while being towed by a tow strap along border another set of cops stop us and say it is illegal to tow by strap along the border but for $150 they will let us go. I need an ATM. No problem we follow cops to ATM pay the $150 and follow cops back to border line where they let us back in.
Back home my U.S. insurance company totals truck and pays me.

That's my experience with Mexican insurance and Mexican cops. One thing to remember is that in all cases no one was hurt.


Thats a lot of accidents for one person! If you have corresponding accident rate in USA, will insurers even insure you?

toronja - 1-7-2016 at 04:04 PM

In case anyone would like to know what it was like trying to get a police report in a small town in Mexico:

As I said in whale-ista's other thread, chavycha and I had a boat motor stolen on the East Cape. We wanted a report to submit to the insurance agencies. Fortunately the wonderful caretaker of our La Ribera rental, Ulyses, was willing to help translate for us (our spanish is passable, but not great). He was a godsend.

Trip 1 to the police department: Luckily the detective happened to be in. He came back to our place, examined the scene of the crime, and took some notes and photos. We were, of course, told to come back to the department "mañana" when someone could take our report.

Trip 2: the ministerio was not in, but the secretary got all of the information needed from us and typed up the whole shebang with the detective's findings. This took a couple of hours. We then had to go and get photocopies of driver's licenses, passports, titles, photos, etc. etc. etc., as the policia did not have a copier.

Trip 3: We waited at the department for the ministerio for half an hour or so. We were pleasantly surprised to encounter a very no-nonsense woman. We spent another two hours going through the case with her and signing all of the relevant paperwork. They had a computer (from about 1992), and the report was printed out on a dot matrix printer. It was awesome, I hadn't seen one of those in about two decades.

The best and worst moment of the whole experience was when the lady minister realized we had different last names, and asked, looking sternly over her glasses at us, whether we were married. The icy silence following our "no" could have frozen hell over.

Anyway, in summary: getting the official report took us around 5 days, but probably only 5-6 hours of hoopla. With a translator, it was a relatively interesting and painless process.

U.S. insurance paying for an accident in Mexico?

John M - 1-7-2016 at 04:25 PM

Somewhere around 1984 we were involved in an accident in Tijuana. For a couple of reasons our Mexican policy was deemed not valid.

Police were at the scene. After some time at the police station we were able to pay for the other guys repair at a Tijuana body shop. Our cars were driveable so we returned to the states. We had a police report from Baja.

I contacted our Allstate agent and he went to bat for us. Got our cars repaired, reimbursed for the payment to the Mexican body shop for the other guy's car.

This event was much more complicated but those details don't effect the outcome.

All I can say is at the time at least, Allstate auto insurance covered within 75 miles of the border. We consider ourselves very fortunate.

John M

TMW - 1-7-2016 at 07:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by akshadow  
Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
I've had a truck totaled and Mexican Insurance paid off.

I've had a truck damaged and Mexican insurance paid to have it fixed in the U.S. and that's another story.
. A little later while while being towed by a tow strap along border another set of cops stop us and say it is illegal to tow by strap along the border but for $150 they will let us go. I need an ATM. No problem we follow cops to ATM pay the $150 and follow cops back to border line where they let us back in.
Back home my U.S. insurance company totals truck and pays me.

That's my experience with Mexican insurance and Mexican cops. One thing to remember is that in all cases no one was hurt.


Allstate covers your vehicle if the accident happens with in 75 miles of the border. In the case of my truck they didn't even ask for a police report so how would they know it was within 75 miles. I guess since I drove it home after some minor repairs was a factor. Also when I lived in San Diego and asked my agent there about the 75 miles he said aren't all accidents within 75 miles.

TMW - 1-7-2016 at 08:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
I've had a truck totaled and Mexican Insurance paid off.

I've had a truck damaged and Mexican insurance paid to have it fixed in the U.S. and that's another story.

I hit the back of a Van crossing in San Luis at slow speed and just a scratch, really. Cop came looked it over and talked to woman. Woman calls someone on cell phone and says she wants $180. My friend and I only had $146. Cop talks to woman and she accepts it. Off we go.

I hit the back of a bus in Mexicali and damage the bumper. Cops come bus driver wants $200 for damage and I pay him. Cops say they smell alcohol on my breath and give me a choice of a night in jail or $100. I pay the $100. A little later while while being towed by a tow strap along border another set of cops stop us and say it is illegal to tow by strap along the border but for $150 they will let us go. I need an ATM. No problem we follow cops to ATM pay the $150 and follow cops back to border line where they let us back in.
Back home my U.S. insurance company totals truck and pays me.

That's my experience with Mexican insurance and Mexican cops. One thing to remember is that in all cases no one was hurt.


Thats a lot of accidents for one person! If you have corresponding accident rate in USA, will insurers even insure you?


The first truck was a new Toyota I just bought my son in 1988 memorial weekend.

Christmas 1995 I was side swiped at La Rumorosa by a young group coming up for a party in TJ. He said he was changing the radio and ran off into the snow and over corrected coming back and hit me. Mexican Insurance paid a shop in San Diego to fix it. Bad job, numerous problems later. At the time I wanted City Chevrolet to fix it since that is where I bought it. The insurance company said if the cost was over their estimate I would have to pay the difference. I should have done that.

The bus accident was 2007 in Mexicali after a Ken Cooke Pole Line Road run and it was Ken pulling me at the border fence.

I've only had one accident in the U.S. and that was 1976 in East Alton, IL. a VW bug pulled out in front of me. I bent the right side of the bumper that I later pulled back in place. State Farm paid me $80. His left side was a mess but he said the same thing happened to him in parking lot the week before. So I don't know how much damage I did.

Allstate has been good to me. I bought my son three trucks he wrecked within 4 years, age 16-20, then the army took him. Allstate fixed two of them.

[Edited on 1-8-2016 by TMW]