BajaNomad

Punta Lobos fishermen evicted in Todos Santos

pauldavidmena - 2-2-2016 at 03:41 PM

Just read this article, as well as quite a few others just like it, describing the removal of the fishermen's blockade of the Tres Santos construction site by federal police.

Lee - 2-2-2016 at 03:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
Just read this article, as well as quite a few others just like it, describing the removal of the fishermen's blockade of the Tres Santos construction site by federal police.


Saw that coming. Too bad. Wonder what's next?

My first impression of the site was ''what the he11?'' Don't think engineers or developers know this beach and if they did wouldn't build so close to the water. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

rts551 - 2-2-2016 at 04:09 PM

http://www.bcsnoticias.mx/pescadores-de-punta-lobos-exigen-p...

http://colectivopericu.net/2016/02/02/confirmado-los-pescado...

Looks like the government is saying the coop had no legal right to block access to the beach.

rts551 - 2-2-2016 at 05:17 PM

Latest on social media say the police are there and have the coop members isolated into 3 groups. Road is open to the workers at Tres Santos. Some are trying to rally Americans and Canadians to go down and confront police.

Lots of conflicting info in the news.

rts551 - 2-2-2016 at 05:26 PM

Nothing has been posted on the protest facebook pages all day.

gnukid - 2-2-2016 at 05:31 PM

It's over. Police left.

There were updates all day, with video and written updates.

https://www.facebook.com/conceptobcs.sudcalifornia/?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/TodosSantos.PuebloMagico/?fref=ts




[Edited on 2-3-2016 by gnukid]

rts551 - 2-2-2016 at 05:34 PM

was looking at Truth SAntos and Save Punta Lobos. Nothing on those two.

rts551 - 2-2-2016 at 05:45 PM

They are saying they got an injunction. I guess I will wait =until tomorrow to see what the story is.

pauldavidmena - 2-2-2016 at 07:53 PM

Thanks for the updates. From over 2500 miles away, with all of the less-than-impartial reporting, it's impossible to figure out what really happened beyond the documented fact that federal police made an effort to clear the way to the construction site.

pauldavidmena - 2-3-2016 at 04:00 PM

Here is an interesting take from the Colorado State student newspaper website.

pauldavidmena - 2-3-2016 at 04:38 PM

Interesting video found on the Todos Santos Newsfeed Facebook page.

rts551 - 2-3-2016 at 04:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
Thanks for the updates. From over 2500 miles away, with all of the less-than-impartial reporting, it's impossible to figure out what really happened beyond the documented fact that federal police made an effort to clear the way to the construction site.


yes sir

micah202 - 2-3-2016 at 04:59 PM

.

....''Madrazo and six other co-op members were charged by police on claims of dispossession and invasion.''

........seems ironic.
I consider the developers are much more guilty of such charges for invasion with such a gringo resort taking precedence over a multi generation fishing site.

How,where,why do these fishers find another safe fish site?


.

rts551 - 2-3-2016 at 07:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by micah202  
.

....''Madrazo and six other co-op members were charged by police on claims of dispossession and invasion.''

........seems ironic.
I consider the developers are much more guilty of such charges for invasion with such a gringo resort taking precedence over a multi generation fishing site.

How,where,why do these fishers find another safe fish site?

Whether you like the development or not...they own the property. It has always been private property and subject to development. That is part of the issue. Ironic Madrazo and Moreno are now complaining about Gringos, when the majority of their support comes from USA and and Canadians part timers.

Come on guys. Todos Santos is a Gringo resort already.


.

Udo - 2-3-2016 at 08:13 PM

Non Mexicans involved in this protest are under danger of getting dishonorably deported immediately!
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Latest on social media say the police are there and have the coop members isolated into 3 groups. Road is open to the workers at Tres Santos. Some are trying to rally Americans and Canadians to go down and confront police.

Lots of conflicting info in the news.

Lee - 2-3-2016 at 09:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
Here is an interesting take from the Colorado State student newspaper website.


Comments at the end of the article are as interesting as the article. Some heavy stuff coming. Todos was ripe for the picking and think it just got plucked.

monoloco - 2-4-2016 at 10:46 AM

The protests may drive the Mira group and Black Rock out, but the property will be acquired by someone else and the result of that may be worse. It could end up as a Cabo style timeshare resort with a golf course or a haphazard residential development. No one associated with the protests has been able to articulate to me what a satisfactory agreement with the developer would look like.

Cielomar - 2-4-2016 at 11:42 AM

Drove by there yesterday am on my bike and saw some Federales and what looked like the same thugish-looking foreign security guy seen in previous VDOs taking pictures of the fishermen blockading the entrance. He gave me the stink eye as I pedaled by. There is now a private security person guarding the access road and no sign of the fishermen.
One only has to look at Los Cerrritos beach area to see how greedy, haphazard development can ruin a local treasure. 20 USD crappy hamburgers at beach bar to boot.
I suspect Black Rock will sell out to some enterprising Mexico City developer who will get a Cabo-like hotel pushed through and that will be spell the end of beautiful Punto Lobo.
BTW, does anyone have a picture of the pad from the ocean looking onshore? Its truly shocking to see what has happened to the beach!

monoloco - 2-4-2016 at 11:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cielomar  
Drove by there yesterday am on my bike and saw some Federales and what looked like the same thugish-looking foreign security guy seen in previous VDOs taking pictures of the fishermen blockading the entrance. He gave me the stink eye as I pedaled by. There is now a private security person guarding the access road and no sign of the fishermen.
One only has to look at Los Cerrritos beach area to see how greedy, haphazard development can ruin a local treasure. 20 USD crappy hamburgers at beach bar to boot.
I suspect Black Rock will sell out to some enterprising Mexico City developer who will get a Cabo-like hotel pushed through and that will be spell the end of beautiful Punto Lobo.
BTW, does anyone have a picture of the pad from the ocean looking onshore? Its truly shocking to see what has happened to the beach!
I'd gladly trade Todos Santos the mess at Los Cerritos for Tres Santos. Lol. Seriously, Los Cerritos is the perfect example of what could eventually happen to the Tres Santos property.

Lee - 2-4-2016 at 12:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
I'd gladly trade Todos Santos the mess at Los Cerritos for Tres Santos. Lol. Seriously, Los Cerritos is the perfect example of what could eventually happen to the Tres Santos property.


Think Lobos will be worse. It will take little to wipe out the buildings at the South end. It's like engineers or designers never went to the beach. They don't know this beach. These guys have to be smarter than me. This is how things are done down here. Cerritos, Tequila Ranch.

pacificobob - 2-4-2016 at 01:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
Interesting video found on the Todos Santos Newsfeed Facebook page.


thanks for posting...forwarded

rts551 - 2-4-2016 at 04:05 PM

The fishermen were kicked out. The are now at the governor's palace demanding an audience with him.

Cielomar. you are not biased in this discussion are you?

gnukid - 2-4-2016 at 04:30 PM


Statement from Cooperativa with english subtitles

There is an individual grabbing video all day long of the events and posting here: https://www.facebook.com/ezequiel.lizalde

[Edited on 2-4-2016 by gnukid]

chippy - 2-4-2016 at 04:35 PM

Does this suprise you?:lol:

[Edited on 2-4-2016 by chippy]

Lee - 2-4-2016 at 04:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Shocking amount of misinformation being reported and shared.


Almost, well, titillating.

pauldavidmena - 2-4-2016 at 04:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  

Statement from Cooperativa with english subtitles

[Edited on 2-4-2016 by gnukid]


It looks like the video was dated 1/29 and depicts a new sense of resolve on the part of the cooperative, which was rumored to be in a state of disarray. No wonder the authorities sought to shut them down a few days later.

gnukid - 2-4-2016 at 04:57 PM

Of course, I am not there, not involved and am just watching periodic video updates on social networks and news sites, its in spanish with local dialect so it would help to understand spanish to follow along and be logged into FB. https://www.facebook.com/ezequiel.lizalde

More video of today here and it's open to the public without having to login to FB:

https://www.facebook.com/SalvemosPuntaLobos/


[Edited on 2-5-2016 by gnukid]

micah202 - 2-4-2016 at 05:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by micah202  
.

....''Madrazo and six other co-op members were charged by police on claims of dispossession and invasion.''

........seems ironic.
I consider the developers are much more guilty of such charges for invasion with such a gringo resort taking precedence over a multi generation fishing site.

How,where,why do these fishers find another safe fish site?

Whether you like the development or not...they own the property. It has always been private property and subject to development. That is part of the issue. Ironic Madrazo and Moreno are now complaining about Gringos, when the majority of their support comes from USA and and Canadians part timers.

Come on guys. Todos Santos is a Gringo resort already.



Whether you like the development or not...they own the property. It has always been private property and subject to development. That is part of the issue.......
Come on guys. Todos Santos is a Gringo resort already.



.....'always'??,,, really? How many generations before there was fisherfolk there??? :wow:



.

[Edited on 2-5-2016 by micah202]

monoloco - 2-4-2016 at 05:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
I'd gladly trade Todos Santos the mess at Los Cerritos for Tres Santos. Lol. Seriously, Los Cerritos is the perfect example of what could eventually happen to the Tres Santos property.


Think Lobos will be worse. It will take little to wipe out the buildings at the South end. It's like engineers or designers never went to the beach. They don't know this beach. These guys have to be smarter than me. This is how things are done down here. Cerritos, Tequila Ranch.
Unfortunately (for Tres Santos), the target demographic of Tres Santos marketing, upscale, active, "socially conscious," yogi, gardener, surfer, is precisely the demographic most influenced by the protesters. If the project is taken over by a big resort corporation, they'll come in, bust a few more heads, and do whatever they want, and the protests will have little effect because neither they, or the tourists from Chicago or Calgary that buy their timeshares and spend money in their all-inclusive shops, will give a rats ass what a bunch of beach huggers in Todos Santos think. Maybe Tony, Roger, or some ex-governor will pick it up on the cheap and flip it.

rts551 - 2-4-2016 at 05:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by micah202  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by micah202  
.

....''Madrazo and six other co-op members were charged by police on claims of dispossession and invasion.''

........seems ironic.
I consider the developers are much more guilty of such charges for invasion with such a gringo resort taking precedence over a multi generation fishing site.

How,where,why do these fishers find another safe fish site?

Whether you like the development or not...they own the property. It has always been private property and subject to development. That is part of the issue. Ironic Madrazo and Moreno are now complaining about Gringos, when the majority of their support comes from USA and and Canadians part timers.

Come on guys. Todos Santos is a Gringo resort already.



Whether you like the development or not...they own the property. It has always been private property and subject to development. That is part of the issue.......
Come on guys. Todos Santos is a Gringo resort already.



.....'always'??,,, really? How many generations before there was fisherfolk there??? :wow:



.

[Edited on 2-5-2016 by micah202]


It has been well established they were trespassing. They were finally given a concession for the piece they are on now about 3 months ago.

gnukid - 2-4-2016 at 06:52 PM

Amparo granted to the fisherman signed by the judge to stop their removal, relates to the donation to the use the land officially granted by the first Governor of BCS Lic. Aramburo, according to the peninsular news story below.

Video of reading of the Amparo to police:
https://www.facebook.com/conceptobcs.sudcalifornia/videos/16...

http://peninsulardigital.com/extra/se-reinstala-el-planton-e...

Interesting video interviews with the parties today at the congress, noting the long term primary use of the site by the fisherman for multi-generations.

They are asking for a dialogue to conform the development to legally permitted use to allow them to continue to use their access. They are not against the development.

http://peninsulardigital.com/extra/no-estan-cooperativistas-...

Good news just now:

Esta tarde ‪#‎TresSantos‬ a través de la subdirectora de proyectos, Beatriz Ledesma, aceptó iniciar una mesa de diálogo con los pescadores de ‪#‎PuntaLobos‬ a fin de destrabar el conflicto. De momento se comprometió a suspender los trabajos de construcción durante una semana. la base para la negociación serán los 8 puntos del pliego petitorio, además queda sin efecto el acuerdo que firmaron con la anterior mesa directiva que los traicionó.

--
This afternoon ‪#‎tressantos‬ through the deputy director of projects, Beatriz Ledesma, agreed to initiate a table of dialogue with the fishermen of ‪#‎puntalobos‬ in order to unlock the conflict. At the moment it is committed to suspend the construction work for a week. The basis for the negotiation will be the 8 points of the specification, in addition to petition is no longer in effect the agreement signed with the previous board who betrayed you...
---
From Chuy Cota:
Hay resultados positivos... hay apertura al dialogo y a la negociacion... lastima que nos costaron unos buenos chingazos!!!!



[Edited on 2-5-2016 by gnukid]

rts551 - 2-4-2016 at 08:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Amparo granted to the fisherman signed by the judge to stop their removal, relates to their long term rights to the use the land officially granted by the first Governor of BCS Lic. Aramburo, according to the peninsular news story below.

Video of reading of the Amparo to police:
https://www.facebook.com/conceptobcs.sudcalifornia/videos/16...

http://peninsulardigital.com/extra/se-reinstala-el-planton-e...

Interesting video interviews with the parties today at the congress, noting the long term primary use of the site by the fisherman for multi-generations.

They are asking for a dialogue to conform the development to legally permitted use to allow them to continue to use their access. They are not against the development.

http://peninsulardigital.com/extra/no-estan-cooperativistas-...

Good news just now:

Esta tarde ‪#‎TresSantos‬ a través de la subdirectora de proyectos, Beatriz Ledesma, aceptó iniciar una mesa de diálogo con los pescadores de ‪#‎PuntaLobos‬ a fin de destrabar el conflicto. De momento se comprometió a suspender los trabajos de construcción durante una semana. la base para la negociación serán los 8 puntos del pliego petitorio, además queda sin efecto el acuerdo que firmaron con la anterior mesa directiva que los traicionó.

--
This afternoon ‪#‎tressantos‬ through the deputy director of projects, Beatriz Ledesma, agreed to initiate a table of dialogue with the fishermen of ‪#‎puntalobos‬ in order to unlock the conflict. At the moment it is committed to suspend the construction work for a week. The basis for the negotiation will be the 8 points of the specification, in addition to petition is no longer in effect the agreement signed with the previous board who betrayed you...
---
From Chuy Cota:
Hay resultados positivos... hay apertura al dialogo y a la negociacion... lastima que nos costaron unos buenos chingazos!!!!



[Edited on 2-5-2016 by gnukid]


I will have to dig up the BCSnoticia story from 3 month ago where the coop was finally granted the concession. It went through the whole history. Yes. Interestingly enough, the coop is now wanting to negotiate a deal.

rts551 - 2-4-2016 at 08:32 PM

:)here is one version.

http://www.bcsnoticias.mx/semarnat-de-bcs-asegura-que-nadie-...

Lee - 2-5-2016 at 10:17 AM

Breezy, cold, no fish today.

Few pangueros preparing to launch. All signs of blockade removed.

rts551 - 2-5-2016 at 01:31 PM

Nice beach. where is all the erosion?

pauldavidmena - 2-6-2016 at 04:55 PM

I'm 2500 miles away, but I'm already tired of election-year posturing, and I don't really care much about the Super Bowl, so I follow this story with great interest.

Two conflicting story lines seem to have emerged. One shows Tres Santos management offering an olive branch to the Fishermen's Co-op in the form of a dialogue regarding their new demands, while the other rejects the role of John Moreno, dismisses the co-op's current demands, and references an agreement made on January 21 instead. The Octavo Día article alludes to internal conflict among the fishermen and implies that the state and municipal governments affirm the right of Tres Santos to continue construction on the project without further impediment.

My guess is that the project goes on, and that the fishermen would rather fish in compromise than not at all.