Native California Indians in the 1700s as illustrated by the Jesuits

Of the three Catholic Orders of missionaries who operated in Baja California (1683-1855), only the Jesuits (1683-1768) showed special interest in reporting on the Indians' lifestyles and appearance. In many reports from the peninsula are the Californians described during the Jesuit period.


Three published works by the Jesuits contains illustrations of the Native California Indians. Here are a few of those illustrations:


From Padre Miguel Venegas in 1739 (published in 1757):

California Indian men, women, and infants:



Notice the baby in a carrier-net.
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From Padre Jakob Baegert 1751-1768 (published in 1772):


A Californian, with his catch of rats.


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From Padre Ignacio Tirsch 1762-1768 (published in 1972):


California Indians with a killed deer.


“Out of the wilderness a heathen and his wife are coming with their daughters and son to the mission to be converted.”


Christianized California Indians

Quote: Originally posted by dtbushpilot

Cool, thanks David.

You're welcome David.
These are some of the illustrations that will appear in the new book.
Padre Ignacio Tirsch (who drew the last three images above) was the last Jesuit missionary at Santiago (and San José del Cabo, which was a visita of Santiago from 1748 to 1768). So, those are likely how he saw the natives who walked about where you now live!

Here is another, by Tirsch of the Santiago mission circa 1765. The church entrance is just above the cemetery:



The Santiago mission ruins in 1919:



The new mission-site church in 1950:



The modern church being built on the mission site in 1957:



That Santiago church in 2012:

Quote: Originally posted by Osprey

David, do you have any info about the Indians depicted in your post? Can you tell us where they (and the artists, priests, etc ) were when the pictures were sketched? What did they call themselves? Did they speak Yuman? Many descriptions of southern Indians showed them to be much more primitive than the people in these sketches. Do you think the priests made their converts or potential converts look more noble than they appeared in real life?

Thank you Lancesf.
I have a little additional data to yours if I may contribute it:

The first TWO (not 4) images come from Padre Miguel Venegas's book. He was a Jesuit writer in Mexico (not Europe) and recorded the activities based on letters from the peninsula. The first two illustrations appear on his map that was published in 1757. His book was originally written 18 years earlier.

The second TWO images are from Padre Baegert who was the Jesuit at Mission San Luis Gonzaga from 1751 to 1768 (Guaycura Indians) and while his book was published in Germany in 1772 it is from his pen.

The final THREE images are from Padre Ignacio Tirsch who was the Jesuit at Mission Santiago from 1763 to 1768 (Pericú Indians) and administered the visita of San José del Cabo as it was reduced from mission to visita in 1748. Tirsch's art was unknown to the historical world until they appeared on a Czechoslovakian calendar in 1970!

Yes, Barco's is a good book:





[Edited on 2-13-2016 by David K]

Me too ... Its one of the reason I watch old movies

Check out The Big Trail .. filmed on location in WY in 1930

John Wayne is really, really young

Amazing ... just amazing from a lot of different standpoints

The pictures I got of Curtis were from: early 1900's ... hard to find much earlier than that ... here is a cool site

https://www.archives.gov/research/american-west/

I'll bet the Salmon runs were a bit different ...

Not to mention the Buffalo ...

And Owens Valley was a paradise... compared to now, its still pretty nice ... but, what it must have been like in 1710

[Edited on 2-14-2016 by wessongroup]

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Me too ... Its one of the reason I watch old movies Check out The Big Trail .. filmed on location in WY in 1930 John Wayne is really, really young Amazing ... just amazing from a lot of different standpoints The pictures I got of Curtis were from: early 1900's ... hard to find much earlier than that ... here is a cool site https://www.archives.gov/research/american-west/ I'll bet the Salmon runs were a bit different ... Not to mention the Buffalo ... And Owens Valley was a paradise

Haven't been up ... since my last trip, which was just before I went in for fusion surgery on my back ... that was 2001

Used to make it up just about every year, opening day was a tradition ... but, would try and make it up at least one time in addition to opening day ... Lived for 10 years on the others side ... and used that side ... but, I've always liked the East side of the Sierras over the West side .. not sure, maybe cuz of the Westerns filmed around Lone Pine ... as a kid it WAS THE PLACE both my brother and I couldn't wait to get to every summer with the old man

Glad to hear things are getting better ...as it was looking a bit worn out at that time ... hope the Court Ruling has helped on the water pulled by LA from the region

Didn't get back into the back country ... just the usual ... Owens River, Convict, South and North Lakes and some on Bishop Creek .. a favorite place to camp and fish

Our jumping off point when growing up ... and in my 20's to the John Muir Trail

Had starting liking Baja better by that time, in the 60's .. less people and a lot of good fishing too

Thanks had forgot about Powell ... He did some pretty amazing stuff ... will check him out

Sorry DK for the hijack ... Let's get back to Baja ... as it is still pretty cool in places too and the people who were able to (make a living there are still interesting)

btw ... good to see ya posting again Barry

[Edited on 2-14-2016 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 2-14-2016 by wessongroup]

Quote: Originally posted by Lancesf

Sorry didn't mean to refer to the place Venegas wrote, just to the engravings themselves. Although Venegas wrote at an earlier time, the book itself was not published until 1757 and contains those engravings. The engravings in Venegas were done in Europe, weren't the engravings in Baegert done in Germany for publication there?

Back in the 50's hardly anyone went down south of Ensenada

And most that got down to the some of the nice locations "flew"

Tough "sledding" back in those really old days ... until the "Highways" got in

It was what I liked about Baja as a kid of 10 ... nothing to worry about ... other than what one had already learn about : snakes, sharks, stickers, bears, "cats", look out for strangers .. et al ... pretty basic stuff .. work's just about any place ya go

Really cool your dad took pictures ... and something you picked up and carried over .. From you old man .. nice touch

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Thanks ... An interesting painting technique used by Padre Ignacio Tirsch in that first illustration "California Indians with a killed deer" ... for that time period Would appear he was really ahead of his time by a few hundred years ... appears he did do any more .. too bad

Quote: Originally posted by David K

“Out of the wilderness a heathen and his wife are coming with their daughters and son to the mission to be converted.”

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Quote: Originally posted by David K   “Out of the wilderness a heathen and his wife are coming with their daughters and son to the mission to be converted.” Sad commentary on white men rewriting Native history, isn't it David? The spanish really did see the locals as heathens in need of conversion to christianity

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Christianized California Indians [/rquote]

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

I get the impression that David rebels against political correctness. Trump rebels against being correct too. If the Jesuits were sent by the spanish christian church, and the church was part of the corrupt spanish government, forced religious conversion was politically incorrect 500 years ago as it is today. Sorry, this drawing doesn't depict Native indians. More like white europeans. That's alright. Just keep rewriting and romanticizing history. For a profit. Hey, just for the record, Jesuits taught me through the university level. Smartest religious in the church. Let's call a spade a spade. Quote: Originally posted by David K   Christianized California Indians [/rquote]

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Quote: Originally posted by Lee   I get the impression that David rebels against political correctness. Trump rebels against being correct too. If the Jesuits were sent by the spanish christian church, and the church was part of the corrupt spanish government, forced religious conversion was politically incorrect 500 years ago as it is today. Sorry, this drawing doesn't depict Native indians. More like white europeans. That's alright. Just keep rewriting and romanticizing history. For a profit. Hey, just for the record, Jesuits taught me through the university level. Smartest religious in the church. Let's call a spade a spade. Quote: Originally posted by David K   Christianized California Indians [/rquote] The transformation was amazing. Don't people recognize that all conquerors had an interest in writing history "their" way.

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Was peyote used by the indigenous population of Baja, or did the artist have to bring his own?

pretty obvious.....kooks from the valley!

Quote: Originally posted by David K

That is how Tirsch illustrated them, showing them no different than Europeans rather than as savage animals. That was a good thing, I think.

Re-photographing for Barry A & others

With all respect to David, and not wishing to contribute to the hijacking of threads, I will respond to Barry A.

On the subject of Grand Canyon re-photography, I believe the book you may be referring to is "Grand Canyon - A Century of Change" by Robert H. Webb. this is a magnificent book, alas it isn't a re-do of the Powell Survey but of the 1889/1890 Robert Brewster Stanton railroad route survey. Webb, one-hundred years later replicated hundreds of Stanton survey images, using as closely as possible the time of day, day of the year, and the original camera locations.

If there is a rephoto of the Powell survey that would be yet another book to have! Although I believe many of the images in Powell were sketches. If you find it, would you U2U me with the info?

John M

[Edited on 6-18-2016 by John M]

Quote: Originally posted by sargentodiaz

Something seldom mentions about the Catholic missionaries in the New World is their almost ignoring female Indians. It is surmised that their vows of celibacy caused them to do their best to ignore the healthy bodies shown in all their glory - before they were able to have them almost totally clad in blue cotton dresses. It also meant that many missionaries failed to use the girls and women to perform those tasks they did before their arrival. Another point - most of the missionaries were prolific in writing diaries and journals - most including amazingly detailed drawings of everything surrounding them. Makes one wonder where all those beautiful drawings are.

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Quote: Originally posted by sargentodiaz   Something seldom mentions about the Catholic missionaries in the New World is their almost ignoring female Indians. It is surmised that their vows of celibacy caused them to do their best to ignore the healthy bodies shown in all their glory - before they were able to have them almost totally clad in blue cotton dresses. It also meant that many missionaries failed to use the girls and women to perform those tasks they did before their arrival. Another point - most of the missionaries were prolific in writing diaries and journals - most including amazingly detailed drawings of everything surrounding them. Makes one wonder where all those beautiful drawings are. I believe there is some documentation that a few Padres succumbed to the temptations if the female natives.

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Quote: Originally posted by rts551   Quote: Originally posted by sargentodiaz   Something seldom mentions about the Catholic missionaries in the New World is their almost ignoring female Indians. It is surmised that their vows of celibacy caused them to do their best to ignore the healthy bodies shown in all their glory - before they were able to have them almost totally clad in blue cotton dresses. It also meant that many missionaries failed to use the girls and women to perform those tasks they did before their arrival. Another point - most of the missionaries were prolific in writing diaries and journals - most including amazingly detailed drawings of everything surrounding them. Makes one wonder where all those beautiful drawings are. I believe there is some documentation that a few Padres succumbed to the temptations if the female natives. Male natives too.

Quote: Originally posted by John M

With all respect to David, and not wishing to contribute to the hijacking of threads, I will respond to Barry A. On the subject of Grand Canyon re-photography, I believe the book you may be referring to is "Grand Canyon - A Century of Change" by Robert H. Webb. this is a magnificent book, alas it isn't a re-do of the Powell Survey but of the 1889/1890 Robert Brewster Stanton railroad route survey. Webb, one-hundred years later replicated hundreds of Stanton survey images, using as closely as possible the time of day, day of the year, and the original camera locations. If there is a rephoto of the Powell survey that would be yet another book to have! Although I believe many of the images in Powell were sketches. If you find it, would you U2U me with the info? John M [Edited on 6-18-2016 by John M]