BajaNomad

Drivng that new truck to Mexico-things I did not know....

Baja Bucko - 2-12-2016 at 11:32 AM

So my old truck had too many Baja miles and I had to get a new one. Been traveling the peninsula for over 40 years and always drove paid-for trucks. Well, new one is not paid for and I am getting ready to head south to ride mules again. It seems the BIG name car credit company will not allow my truck to go to Mexico for more than 30 days and it will not cooperate with my insurance company over certain things even though I get Mexican insurance and the US is irrelevant. In case of an accident proof of ownership is critical and just the registration is not accepted in Mexico from the folks I have talked to-including a few who had accidents down there. So the lien holder of my unpaid for truck refuses to give ME permission to cross the border. OK-I know most of you would just say screw them...but I like to follow all the rules driving in Mexico so this has me boiling....who woulda thought.....:fire::fire::fire:

Lee - 2-12-2016 at 11:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Baja Bucko  
So the lien holder of my unpaid for truck refuses to give ME permission to cross the border. OK-I know most of you would just say screw them...but I like to follow all the rules driving in Mexico so this has me boiling....who woulda thought.....:fire::fire::fire:


Lien holder is owner with you until lien is removed. Not knowing you need permission to go South might be spelled out somewhere that you missed. Since you know what's required now, you need to follow the law. Your lien ''contract'' is probably voidable making your balance due and payable if you get in trouble and they find out about it. (Accident...)

I'd think, but might be wrong, that this stuff is negotiable with the lien holder. I.e., you're only driving 50k into MX, vehicle would be garaged, etc. But it could be black/white too.

An option might be getting another loan that doesn't have the SOB condition.

Nomads would say ''screw them'' and break the law? Nah.

willardguy - 2-12-2016 at 12:09 PM

how come nothin can ever be easy :(

David K - 2-12-2016 at 12:11 PM

Take the truck back!

Seriously, you got it for Mexico trips.

Many (most of?) of us get 4WDs because of Baja, for Baja. It is your truck and if it has full insurance the lender gets paid!

Even when I leased new Tacomas (from Toyota Carlsbad) I made it clear before signing the truck was going to Mexico right away. They told me, a lease is the same as a purchase and one must be fully insured, that's all.

My third Tacoma is now a purchase (from the lease), from a Credit Union... It is still my truck and fully insured when in Mexico (and here).

Go back to the dealer and cry foul!

Bob and Susan - 2-12-2016 at 01:01 PM

maybe that's a Canadian law but not in the usa...

a lien is just that...a lien on the truck

the lienholder cannot tell you where to go with the truck after purchase

as long as you are insured the lienholder has no say in how you use the truck

I just had a similar conflict with a usa state where a worker was making up rules : )

I suggest you contact a lawyer for a free advice session...

Baja Bucko - 2-12-2016 at 01:46 PM


I live in the US.

TMW - 2-12-2016 at 02:38 PM

When I purchased my used 2004 Tacoma in 2010 it was financed thru ALLY which I think is formerly GMAC. Anyway I called them and told them I was going to Baja and they told me to fax or email a copy of my Mexican insurance policy, which I did, and everything was OK.

Baja Bucko maybe you should look into financing thru another company.

CortezBlue - 2-12-2016 at 05:02 PM

Get a DL policy. They don't ask for any ownership of the vehicle(s) you are driving

Before I get corrected, this is for liability only. So if your truck is stolen or wrecked, you are out

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by CortezBlue]

Bajahowodd - 2-12-2016 at 05:23 PM

I'm thinking that if you buy your insurance through a California excess broker such as Bajabound, you will be covered regardless of what happens, you will be covered simply because when you apply, you will list the legal owner as well as yourself. Geoff ought to chime in on this.

Bob and Susan - 2-12-2016 at 05:37 PM

his (Geoff) site says you need a letter...this just isn't true

as long as the truck is registered and you comply with the insurance requirements for the loan and make your monthly payments...
you are good to go

the 30 day thing comes in because in most states in the usa you need to transfer title to the state you domicile the truck in and follow that states rules after 30 days

can't do that in mexico without importing it and the years for import are 2011 to 2007...the title has to be clear too

a bank cannot cross into mexico to repo a truck either
so if you stop paying the monthly bill is almost always a loos for the lender...they don't like that

most people have a lien...its the way it is


David K - 2-12-2016 at 06:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
maybe that's a Canadian law but not in the usa...

a lien is just that...a lien on the truck

the lienholder cannot tell you where to go with the truck after purchase

as long as you are insured the lienholder has no say in how you use the truck

I just had a similar conflict with a usa state where a worker was making up rules : )

I suggest you contact a lawyer for a free advice session...


This is it... It is your truck Teddi.. the lender just needs it to be insured so they get paid if you wreck it or lose it to theft, no matter where in the world it is.

rts551 - 2-12-2016 at 07:02 PM

regardless of what some say here about full coverage...your vehicle will only be covered up to the assessed value. You owe more than that...you pay!

bajaguy - 2-12-2016 at 07:12 PM

Full coverage also means legal representation, bail bond .......and in some cases a rental car while the insured car is repaired
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
regardless of what some say here about full coverage...your vehicle will only be covered up to the assessed value. You owe more than that...you pay!

mtgoat666 - 2-12-2016 at 07:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
his (Geoff) site says you need a letter...this just isn't true

as long as the truck is registered and you comply with the insurance requirements for the loan and make your monthly payments...
you are good to go

the 30 day thing comes in because in most states in the usa you need to transfer title to the state you domicile the truck in and follow that states rules after 30 days

can't do that in mexico without importing it and the years for import are 2011 to 2007...the title has to be clear too

a bank cannot cross into mexico to repo a truck either
so if you stop paying the monthly bill is almost always a loos for the lender...they don't like that

most people have a lien...its the way it is




The loan contract is the agreement entered into by lender and purchaser. Bobby's advice to hire an attorney is silly. The op should read the contract, it probably has conditions re taking car out of country. If that is unclear, then op should ask the insurance salesman what the typical process is for auto loans, cars and travel in Mexico,...

rhintransit - 2-12-2016 at 08:44 PM

lein holder's permission is required for temporary import to mainland...have never heard of it being required for Baja.

Baja Bucko - 2-12-2016 at 10:39 PM

I have talked with two people who have had accident issues in Baja...each said they eventually were asked to show the proof of ownership and the registration would not work....that said IF there is an issue and every thing is not kosher, the insurance is invalid and there are serious judicial issues there.

David K - 2-13-2016 at 08:44 AM

Teddi, people drive new trucks to Baja ALL THE TIME and they are either financed or leased. I have taken all my new vehicles into Baja, while financed or leased.

Baja Bound or Discover Baja Travel Club both sell the same brand of top rated Mexican Insurance. Neither one will lie to you as they are people we know well for many years. TALK TO THEM.

Bob and Susan - 2-13-2016 at 08:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
regardless of what some say here about full coverage...your vehicle will only be covered up to the assessed value. You owe more than that...you pay!


if you're upside down on a car loan you buy "gap insurance"
...it isn't that much money

then you are covered for the loss is totaled

Bob and Susan - 2-13-2016 at 08:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  

... Bobby's advice to hire an attorney is silly....


I didn't say that...
I said...
"I suggest you contact a lawyer for a free advice session..."

I think that's probably the BEST idea

everyone everywhere makes up different "rules"
get the real rule

SFandH - 2-13-2016 at 09:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Baja Bucko  
It seems the BIG name car credit company will not allow my truck to go to Mexico for more than 30 days ......


Baja Bucko, thanks for posting this. I'm considering a new vehicle. Decided to do a little Inet research. Found these:

"It is also important to note that many companies will not allow you to travel in Mexico with your financed vehicle for a period longer than 30 days."

https://www.bajabound.com/before/permits/lienholders.php

This page has a lot of info. Folks with financed cars should read it. It contains information specific to the various large lending institutions.

----------------------------------

If a vehicle is financed, then it is also subject to a loan agreement that was originally signed by you. If you are still making payments, or if there is a lien holder listed on your vehicle registration, then the lender also maintains some ownership of the vehicle. Because the lender maintains a financial interest in the vehicle, they also legally have a say in whether or not you can take the vehicle outside of the country.

https://www.mexpro.com/blog/driving-financed-vehicles-mexico

-------------------------------------------------------


[Edited on 2-13-2016 by SFandH]

Financed vehicles in Mexico

Tucsonduner - 2-13-2016 at 09:52 AM

From past experience, SFandH is correct. Depending on your lien holder, you may need a letter from them allowing the vehicle, trailer, etc, to be taken into a foreign country.

Bajabound has an excellent article describing the steps needed.

https://www.bajabound.com/before/permits/lienholders.php

Contact you finance company to be sure. I had BofA for a travel trailer and was asked for the letter at the border. You never know when or if someone will ask for it. Kinda like a FMM.

Many times crossing, only been asked the one time.

Bob and Susan - 2-13-2016 at 02:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by Baja Bucko  
It seems the BIG name car credit company will not allow my truck to go to Mexico for more than 30 days ......



"It is also important to note that many companies will not allow you to travel in Mexico with your financed vehicle for a period longer than 30 days."

https://www.bajabound.com/before/permits/lienholders.php

This page has a lot of info. Folks with financed cars should read it. It contains information specific to the various large lending institutions.

----------------------------------

If a vehicle is financed, then it is also subject to a loan agreement that was originally signed by you. If you are still making payments, or if there is a lien holder listed on your vehicle registration, then the lender also maintains some ownership of the vehicle. Because the lender maintains a financial interest in the vehicle, they also legally have a say in whether or not you can take the vehicle outside of the country.

https://www.mexpro.com/blog/driving-financed-vehicles-mexico
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by SFandH]



again these are just things people make up...for their companies benefit

show me the written law that states a loan company can tell me what to do with my registered car or truck after I purchase it...


if they could... they would never let you take it off-road...or launch a boat in salt water...or drive it in the snow

loan companies only have "recovery rights" to the amount ($$$) of the loan...NOT the use of the car or truck

they make up these "rules" so they can "recover" the car or truck when you fail to make the payments...that's it...if its in mexico they cannot "recover" it

make the payments...insure it correctly and you are good to go

again if you think "they" can tell where you can travel...
show us the law and the source

just because its written on the internet doesn't make it true

TMW - 2-13-2016 at 03:40 PM

Since the loan company hold the title don't they have the right to say whether you can take it out of the US. Maybe someone should call Handle on the Law about this. Of course he may say just go.

Bob and Susan - 2-13-2016 at 04:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Since the loan company hold the title don't they have the right to say whether you can take it out of the US...


they only hold a lien on the title...that's the difference

as long as you pay on time and insure so the lien holder is covered...you are good to go

Phil S - 2-13-2016 at 05:45 PM

My knowledge of property casualty insurance days of the 70's didn't have "gap" insurance. Can someone tell me where you can buy it and approx. how much it would cost if I needed say, $30,000.00 gap insurance. Ex: Buy a $70,000.00 vehicle. Drive it off the lot. It might be only worth $40,000.00 during that next 12 months. So to be fully insured, I'd like to buy 'gap' insurance. ; Someone help me out here. And anyone (Nomad) have this kind of coverage now?

Bob and Susan - 2-13-2016 at 06:51 PM

here is information...very common these days

http://www.carsdirect.com/car-insurance/the-4-best-gap-auto-...

mjs - 2-13-2016 at 06:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by Baja Bucko  
It seems the BIG name car credit company will not allow my truck to go to Mexico for more than 30 days ......



"It is also important to note that many companies will not allow you to travel in Mexico with your financed vehicle for a period longer than 30 days."

https://www.bajabound.com/before/permits/lienholders.php

This page has a lot of info. Folks with financed cars should read it. It contains information specific to the various large lending institutions.

----------------------------------

If a vehicle is financed, then it is also subject to a loan agreement that was originally signed by you. If you are still making payments, or if there is a lien holder listed on your vehicle registration, then the lender also maintains some ownership of the vehicle. Because the lender maintains a financial interest in the vehicle, they also legally have a say in whether or not you can take the vehicle outside of the country.

https://www.mexpro.com/blog/driving-financed-vehicles-mexico
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by SFandH]



again these are just things people make up...for their companies benefit

show me the written law that states a loan company can tell me what to do with my registered car or truck after I purchase it...


if they could... they would never let you take it off-road...or launch a boat in salt water...or drive it in the snow

loan companies only have "recovery rights" to the amount ($$$) of the loan...NOT the use of the car or truck

they make up these "rules" so they can "recover" the car or truck when you fail to make the payments...that's it...if its in mexico they cannot "recover" it

make the payments...insure it correctly and you are good to go

again if you think "they" can tell where you can travel...
show us the law and the source

just because its written on the internet doesn't make it true



There is no law, just as there is no law that requires a bank to loan you money to buy a vehicle. The "source" is the loan documents.

A loan agreement is a commercial contract between two parties. The bank agrees to loan you money (in this case to purchase a vehicle) and you agree to repay the money and abide by the terms of the contract. If the contract says you can't drive out of the USA and you agreed to it (you signed the contract) then that's it. Drive out of the USA and you have breached the terms of the contract. If it's 30 days then it's 30 days. If no time limit then no limit. It is whatever is written in the loan documents. If the bank finds out then they can pursue whatever remedies are available to them in the contract. And most contracts would probably have a clause for them to demand immediate payment in full.

It's not written on the internet, the OP should carefully read his/her loan agreement. Preferably before they signed it. That's where it is written.

Bob and Susan - 2-13-2016 at 08:01 PM

the small print...

now i'm wondering how many people have EVER been asked to "pay up" because they took the truck south...when they make the payments, register, smog and insure the truck correctly???





[Edited on 2-14-2016 by Bob and Susan]

bajatrailrider - 2-13-2016 at 08:30 PM

In 2012 my Toyota pre runner.Had 10 grand of body damage.The Mexican INS company never asked,for owner ship papers.They fixed the truck,did a good job.End of story,any truck I buy.No one will tell me where I can go with it.:)

David K - 2-14-2016 at 08:40 AM

Yup, the BUYER has rights! This is not East Germany before unification, or Cuba or North Korea!

mtgoat666 - 2-14-2016 at 08:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
any truck I buy.No one will tell me where I can go with it


If you don't like the loan contract then pay cash.
If you can't afford to pay cash, perhaps you should buy a less expensive vehicle.

David K - 2-14-2016 at 09:42 AM

You must really like those banks to surrender to their unconstitutional demands? Are you a 1%'er? Buyers have rights... power to the people!

;)

mtgoat666 - 2-14-2016 at 09:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
You must really like those banks to surrender to their unconstitutional demands? Are you a 1%'er? Buyers have rights... power to the people!


If you don't like the contract terms, then don't enter into the contract!
I am unaware of typical auto loan contract terms being "unconstitutional."

MitchMan - 2-14-2016 at 10:51 AM

This is not a Constitutional question per se, it is more an issue subject to contract law. mjs is absolutely, positively, unequivocally correct in pointing this out.

Lenders have a right via the lending contract to protect their security to the loan. Lenders of real estate and lenders for construction loans do it all the time, every day, in every such loan contract...been doing it for decades if not centuries.

I mean, would you loan money secured by a vehicle if you had no way to legally repossess the vehicle if loan payments stopped coming in?

bajatrailrider - 2-18-2016 at 07:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
any truck I buy.No one will tell me where I can go with it


If you don't like the loan contract then pay cash.
If you can't afford to pay cash, perhaps you should buy a less expensive vehicle.
The last 6 new trucks I did pay cash,The wife's she put on payments.She never looked at contract,We don't care.Its Insured in both country's.Simply put again,we drive where we want.Either cash buy or loan.If she pays on it,nobody has the right to tell us where we can go. :)

AKgringo - 2-18-2016 at 08:39 PM

Trail rider, I agree with your point of view 100%! That is why if I ever finance another vehicle, I would refuse to sign any contract that had a clause restricting where I could drive it.

It has been pointed out that this is a matter of contract law, and being on the wrong side of it could cost you big time! Even winning a dispute in court would be an experience I would not want to have to go through.

Sweetwater - 2-19-2016 at 08:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
any truck I buy.No one will tell me where I can go with it


If you don't like the loan contract then pay cash.
If you can't afford to pay cash, perhaps you should buy a less expensive vehicle.



There is a distinct difference between legislated laws and contract law. When you take out a loan (lien) on anything, the contract you sign gives the lien holder certain rights on the property. That contract defines each parties rights and responsibilities. If you signed a contract that allows the lien holder to limit the national boundaries of a vehicle's use, you must abide by that contract. What is in question here is how Mexico authorities and insurance companies might handle a vehicle with another nation's lien holder since that lien holder of a vehicle does hold the title as well.

bajatrailrider - 2-19-2016 at 10:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Trail rider, I agree with your point of view 100%! That is why if I ever finance another vehicle, I would refuse to sign any contract that had a clause restricting where I could drive it.

It has been pointed out that this is a matter of contract law, and being on the wrong side of it could cost you big time! Even winning a dispute in court would be an experience I would not want to have to go through.
Since the car is insured in Mexico,full coverage.Me and lender are covered.Example gets totaled,lender is covered.I dont worry about the small stuff.:)

SFandH - 2-19-2016 at 10:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Sweetwater  

There is a distinct difference between legislated laws and contract law. When you take out a loan (lien) on anything, the contract you sign gives the lien holder certain rights on the property. That contract defines each parties rights and responsibilities. If you signed a contract that allows the lien holder to limit the national boundaries of a vehicle's use, you must abide by that contract.


I agree with the above and many thanks to the original poster for making us aware of the situation. Every time I look at my 2003 F-250 I think it's time for a new one, which will be financed.

I wonder if all auto loan contracts have this kind of limitation in the terms and conditions sections.