BajaNomad

Vicente Fox

JESSE - 9-3-2003 at 09:51 PM

This is sort of Baja related, since he is our presidente, i wonder what all the nomadas here think about his job performance and the way it is affecting our beloved Baja California, i for one think he is the worse thing it has happen to us, the guy is simply a lame duck and fishy things are happening left and right, the escalera nautica, the energy companies getting permits to build plants in RESIDENTIAL areas, the Tax system is a mess, crime on the increase, and more corruption in goverment, anybody care to offer their opinion?

reefrocket - 9-3-2003 at 10:20 PM

Sorry but way up here I don't get much info on him. Other than I think he has had a hard time of it because (again just from the little I have read) he was elected but the oppisition party held on to the majority of the votes and crippled lots of his efforts.

At this point I pause because this post probably should be in the political area and I shouldn't be commenting on things I only speculate on and have no real knowledge.

I did admire him not jumping into the "SAND LOT MESS" we are in. And he didn't have a lot of GOOD examples of governing to try to follow.

Dave - 9-8-2003 at 06:15 PM

Jesse, Fox's election was nothing more than a symbolic victory. From day one he never had the congressional support to institute any meaningful change and whatever popular support he had was eroded by 9/11 and the subsequent recession in the U.S.

By voicing your displeasure you obviously think that he did have the power to make significant changes. So....what could/should he have done?

I would also like your take on the recent gains made by PRI. Knowing full well of their corrupt intentions, how could the people vote to increase their power?

Dave - 9-8-2003 at 06:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reefrocket

I did admire him not jumping into the "SAND LOT MESS" we are in. And he didn't have a lot of GOOD examples of governing to try to follow.



You may admire him for standing up to the U.S. but how does that help Mexico? Now GW wouldn't pick up the phone if Vicente called collect.

Economics 101...Always kiss your bankers ass!

Mike Humfreville - 9-8-2003 at 07:22 PM

I'm really politically naive but from the beginning of his term I held out great hopes Fox would work with Bush to forge better relations between our two countries. It was going in that direction for awhile. I don't know where things fell apart, and regardless how a person feels about Bush, he's about as arrogant as a person can get in the way he deals with folks, so maybe that was it. Remember all the press about Bush going to Mexico and Fox visiting here, discussing improvements? At least there was a dialog. And the fact that he'd worked as a corporate exec in the US I thought might cause him to be a little more open minded. While I hate the idea of Escalera Nautica, as it's not my country it's not for me to decide or influence others. I was mightily impressed by the ejido at Bahia de Los Angeles who constructed a collective letter to Fox (I've read it) stating that they would accept the involvement at the ejido only if they and their community were part of the action (I'm paraphrasing of course). But in these days approaching the final analyses, the political and high level improvements between our two countries, the anti-mordida push, Escalera Nautica, etc, etc, seem to have just died. The press has been indicating that Fox is busy reversing some of the damage caused between PAN and PRI. In the long run that might be his best move. That leaves us simple folks to try and keep our cross-border friendships in tact. Maybe if us commoners keep peace our governments will have no need to change what already works.:no:

capn.sharky - 9-8-2003 at 07:43 PM

:no:Jesse--Sounds just like California with Gray Davis. Taxes out of control, electricity costing a fortune, recall, gas prices more than in Mexico. Wanna trade. You might be better off than we are.:(

JESSE - 9-9-2003 at 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
By voicing your displeasure you obviously think that he did have the power to make significant changes. So....what could/should he have done?

I would also like your take on the recent gains made by PRI. Knowing full well of their corrupt intentions, how could the people vote to increase their power?


Dave,

In my opinion, both Fox and the Mexican congress share responsability for all of this, but Fox is the head of state and thus is responsible for the end results or lack of them. Fox has simply done a very poor job of negotiating with the oposing forces in congress, and you can tell he has done a very miserable job when he has managed to get half of his own party against him, what kind of a negotiator manages to pee off his own people?

Let's put the much needed reforms aside, and its clear that Fox has been unable to even do things right in his own sphere of power, he completely messed up by failing to respond (take advantage) after 9-11 by at the very least declaring more prominently his sorrow and support for the United States, even if politically he would have later voted against the US lead resolution.

Domestically he has time and time again failed to apply the rule of law to many situations that got out of hand, like the people that with machetes in hand decided to stop the goverment from building the much needed Mexico city airport, he did absolutely nothing and let these people break the law in front of all the nation, these same people where responsible for interrupting the past elections, and Fox's goverment did absoutely nothing to stop them even when polls showed that the grand majority of the people of Mexico wanted his goverment to put and end to this lawlessnes.

Many of the members of his cabinet are simply a joke, making stupid declarations and not really doing absultely nothing to help the nation and advance the much needed political reforms.

Fox doesn't have the power to make the reforms, but at the very least he should have tried to do the things that where under his power correctly, the 911 messed up, the Atenco people breaking the law, the authorization for the gas plants in an ilegal way, his saturday might live style cabinet members, his constant fumbling of the most basic issues of our nation, the constant traveling all over Mexico for absolutely no reason, the outrageous salaries of his cabinet members and the senators and congressmen of his own party, and i could go on and on and on.

PRI goverments where corrupt, but they at least where serious, this is the first time i have ever seen a Mexican president act in such an unprofessional and frankly stupid way, the guy is simply a lame and stupid duck.

As for the PRI coming back, i don't like them, but i want someone that at least has an IQ of 100 to govern my nation, Fox's party is turning out to be just as corrupt as the old PRI, but add to that the fact that they are weak, dumb, and unable to take care of the basic necesities of the nation.

To sum everything up, heres a quote from Presidente Fox when asked what will he do after a major network TV Azteca hired some thugs and invaded another network in order to settle a court dispute because the goverment wasnt doing his job to legally solved the problem.

"And why me? why do i have to do anything?"

Thats sums what this lame duck is all about.

[Edited on 9-9-2003 by JESSE]

reefrocket - 9-9-2003 at 09:16 PM

Thanks Jessefor the informed opinions. Though it saddens me to think our neighbors are still having political problems. Mexico has the potental to be a great country if guided by honest, intelligent people. Wish our country had the same. But that another story.

Family Guy - 9-12-2003 at 08:22 PM

Jesse, sounds like you need to chill...as a political observer from the states I see much to be thankful for. From the time I learned to read, Mexico seemed to be imbroiled in one scandal after another. Crime, corruption, bloodshed were the norm--in the upper political arena! The economy was a roller coaster seeming only to go in one direction, down.

Everyone had high hopes for Fox and I believe he was sincere in what he promised. He was probably a victim of his own idealism as much as the congressional deadlock.

In his 3 years the large issues still remain unresolved for the most part. Nothing has changed in the South. The talks with the Zapatista rebels that seemed so promising a few years ago are not even mentioned any more.

But for all of the problems you cite, including his botched relations with the US--which by the way I wholeheartedly agree with, although George W. certainly shares the blame--looking backward to the PRI seems like a resignation to defeat.

Maybe it is because of my distance, but it sure seems like things have stabilized in Mexico. If excessive traveling, high salaries, empty declarations, and low IQ are the sign of a bad government are there ANY good ones? Heck, that seems to describe the Bush administration to a tee. Now compare that to the murder, racketeering, and corruption endemic in the PRI's rule. I'll take Fox any day.

For the first time in years the currency is stable, inflation is falling, interest rates are at all-time lows and Mexican consumers can save without fears of economic instability, or at least a great deal less so than just a few years ago.

And that is in spite of a major downturn in the US economy, increased competition in trade from countries like China, and a chilling in relations with the US. Not long ago that would be enough to send the economy off the cliff!

Something must be working.

JESSE - 9-14-2003 at 07:25 PM

Family guy,

I understand your point of view, but from mine you have to see that i live in Baja, my vote back in 1989 gave Mexico its first non PRI governor who started the change that culminated with the presidential win of Vicente Fox. Here in Baja we have lived with 13 yrs of PAN goverment, only to be completely dissapointed with its lack of results and blatant corruption.

Mexico is now living in critical times, this is not only my observation but the views of most of the political analist's here as well, we have a "stable" economy it seems, but we are bleeding jobs, losing competiveness, and are closer and closer coming to a point where the Oil and Electric sector will require tens of billions of dollars in investment to keep the lights on.

As a Mexican you have lived your entire life in periods of great progress only to be followed by periods of great economic caos, we have gotten used to living like this, and we want something better. What good is it for Mexicans that the macro economic indicators are stable if it doesn't reflect at all in our pockets?

Another thing you have to take into account, is that this present economic "stability" was set up and created by Fox's predecesor, the PRI Zedillo, he gets the credit for making the necessary changes to stabilize the economy, not Vicente Fox, if you really take a look at Fox's record is absolutely very poor and completely lacking of any major achievements, many foreigners seem to think that we are stabilized because of Fox's, but that is not the case and we know it.

Vicente Fox's has 3 years to materialize the needed reforms the nation desperately needs, this seems highly unlikely because of his never ending fumblings, if by the end of his administration things stay the same, we will end up falling again into another economic nightmare, at least that is the warning that highly respectable economists are telling him.

The PRI was corrupt, but the PRI had also a strangle hold on the nation, the PAN is showing to be just as corrupt as the PRI ever was, so if Vicente Fox and his party is unable to deliver, i rather take make chances with the PRI, at least i know there will be good times and bad times, and not a long and choking 6 yrs where nothing happens.

Family Guy - 9-14-2003 at 08:42 PM

Mexican analysts sound just like American ones..bleeding jobs, competiveness, etc.

Zedillo may have instituted the economic reforms but the point I was making was that Fox has not botched them given the negative circumstances in his term. And if anyone follows Mexican politics and corruption, it is international investors. That is why I said something must be going right.

You make a good point, macroeconomic indicators do not necessarily put money in people's pockets but they are necessary in attracting the foreign investment that is so badly needed in Mexico. It also helps encourage the development of your country's fragile middle class. Long term stability will eventually put more money in people's pockets. Yes, it also raises the cost of living, tends to increase the rich/poor gap, etc. Unfortunatley, I don't see many other choices on the road to development.

I would be interested to hear your feelings about the PRD. Word up hear is that they have become more centrist and have gathered more supporters disillusioned with Fox and the angry at PRI for blocking reform.







JESSE - 9-14-2003 at 09:05 PM

Family guy,

In reality, most of the credit for keeping the country afloat goes to the Governor of the Banco de Mexico, thanks to Zedillo and his desition to give the Bank complete autonomy, the macro level of our economy has stayed relatively good, but outside of that Fox has done nothing at all to make things better.

The PRD is in my opinion a bad step for the nation, if the PRI and PAN are bad, then the PRD is a disaster, those people have no real clue on anything, they fight amongst themselves, they are in caos constantly, and would take this nation to hell and back if given the oportunity, if they win i am moving to Canada.

Family Guy - 9-15-2003 at 06:09 PM

I hear Vancouver is pretty nice in summer. :biggrin:

Your choices seem to as equally grim as ours. The only difference is that Mexico faces much greater challenges than we do in the US. If the president in the US does little in his four year term it is usually a good thing.

I am sorry to hear the bad news. A lot of people up hear had high hopes for Fox. He seemed like a man of the people and a leader who could really make a difference. His victory marking the first democratic transfer of presidential power in something like 70 years was widely played up big in the US--as I believed it deserved.

Most analysts on this side of the border blame the PRI for stalling reform and 911 and the current stall in the US economy for chilling relations between Bush and Fox.

I had a lot of respect for Zedillo. He was very intelligent and bold. But I never got the feeling he was in touch with the people. He seemed more at home with Wall Street investors and the US business community.

I will end this post as I began. Mexico has grown by leaps and bounds in the past twenty years. Your country has gone from a desperate 3rd world country mired in corruption and crippled by a debt that seemed to be choking it to death to a country that is quickly becoming the economic bedrock of Latin America and an increasingly attractive investment.

Your recovery from the peso crash in the mid nineties was nothing short of amazing. You weathered many other jolts including the recent imploding of Argentina's economy.

Whoever gets the credit, Mexico has much to be proud of. I would just hate to see your country return to one party rule and the corruption that could only undo these gains.

I wish you the best Jesse. I enjoy your posts and admire your passion.




Fox

aldosalato - 9-20-2003 at 06:36 AM

from aldo salato

Personally I think that FOX is a good President for Mexico.

Please look at the numbers how he is running the country. His government team even through many mistakes is running the country much better than in the past.

Look at public finances, look at trade deficit, look at external debt!!
They are much better than EVER and for sure much better then USA, Europe and Japan.

The G7 is digging into a debt hole and is bound to create hyperinflation within the end of the decade for the whole world.

Mexico will survive because people are used to it and will absorbe the wars and external shocks that are bound to come in future years.

Myself I wish the left could become less populist and could implement the reforms for modernizing Mexico.
Next step Mexico need is somebody like Lula in Brazil.

My best candidate for 2006 election?
AMALIA GARCIA of PRD.
In alternative
SANTIAGO CREEL of PAN.

JESSE - 9-20-2003 at 09:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by aldosalato
from aldo salato

Personally I think that FOX is a good President for Mexico.

Please look at the numbers how he is running the country. His government team even through many mistakes is running the country much better than in the past.

Look at public finances, look at trade deficit, look at external debt!!
They are much better than EVER and for sure much better then USA, Europe and Japan.

The G7 is digging into a debt hole and is bound to create hyperinflation within the end of the decade for the whole world.

Mexico will survive because people are used to it and will absorbe the wars and external shocks that are bound to come in future years.

Myself I wish the left could become less populist and could implement the reforms for modernizing Mexico.
Next step Mexico need is somebody like Lula in Brazil.

My best candidate for 2006 election?
AMALIA GARCIA of PRD.
In alternative
SANTIAGO CREEL of PAN.


All macroeconomic strenghts that Mexico now enjoys are thanks to President Zedillo, and more directly, to his Bank of Mexico president Ortiz ( who is still in command because the Bank of Mexico is now an independent branch of goverment, so the current administration can't touch him).

Take away the macroeconomic strenght and what has Fox's goverment to show for? absolutely nothing, the guy is riding on the tail of the success of the Bank of Mexico, not his own.

Amalia in my opinion is not even in the top 3 frontrunners of the PRD, and Santiago Creel is a complete lame duck, who will not get elected because of Fox's mediocre and sterile six years.

aldosalato - 9-21-2003 at 06:17 AM

I agree 100% with you that Zedillo was the one to start the good job.
That is the reason that the PRI called him a traitor.
Anyway Mexico is now on the right path of economic soundness for first time EVER also thanks to Fox that cantinue to keep the house in order.
Mexico just need reforms and Fox does not have the majority in parliament to implement them.
That is why the reforms need to come from somebody of the left.
Nor Lopez Obrador nor Madrazo will ever implements them and they could be dangerous for their populism.

Jesse wanna take a bet? Pick two candidates for President.

aldosalato - 9-21-2003 at 06:44 AM

Ortiz is still in place because Fox administration is happy with him.
PRI and PRD would for sure change him with somebody ready to accept more public deficit and easy money.
Now the risk of MEXICO is 200 basis points (lowest ever) over Treasuries and still falling. Follow the money and you will see what is the international approval rating of FOX administration............
Amalia Garcia is one of the few of PRD that is not populist and really want to improve her country.
She is the only one from the left that would get votes from the whole Mexican society.
She was elected DIPUTADA on July 6. She will be next ZACATECAS elected Governor and she will be next President of Mexico.

JESSE - 9-21-2003 at 09:29 PM

Aldo,

I am not very educated in the work of miss Garcia, i do know that the backward PRD has many other candidates that are frontrunners, like Obrador, Card##as(for a 4th time like Lula), and the congressional lider of the PRD who i can't remember his name. The PRI is too messed up to figure out at this point, theres too many possible candidates to point one out, and the PAN has also a few like Creel, Plasencia, Barrios, Medina, and Mena, all of them in my opinion very weak candidates compared to Vicente Fox, and they will also have to carry the cross of belonging to the PAN and its administration, and the polls show the people are not happy with its work.

In my opinion the next president will come from the PRI, Lopez Obrador has a chance, but the PRD virtually has no support what so ever in most northern states, and they can't win a national election without that.

I see no willingness from the Fox administration to do anything right, the fact that his own senators and congressmen give themselves obsene salaries and are on the most part completely ineffective willhurt them a lot, in the north like here in Baja, the PAN is dead set on eventually losing power to the PRI, they are simply robbing the state and have lost complete touch with the people who voted them to that position, its only a matter of time before the PRI regains power, and the tendency is for this same trend to happen nationally, the PAN has done a very poor job at governing anything from cities to our nation.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-13-2003 at 09:46 AM

Good Morning Gentlemen: I reread all of these post back to Sept. and find it very interesting'. As Mexicanos sometime do, they follow the USA in Action.
The political situtation is somewhat similar to the US.
In the that time the Political Left has been able to create a Judicial System that is changing its position in our Culture.
The Lawyers and Judges have created a Rule of Money instead of Law.
The Giant Corp. in an effprt to control their own Wealth are maaking it difficult for the :eftist to control any Wealth{With the exception of Hollywood Wealth}

I might be that if the Media of Mexico would use real Mexicanos instead of all the scantily dressed Blondes that the world would get a better Idea of Reality in Mexico.

It is obvious that most posters are well versed in the Politicals of US and Mexico but no one seems to spent much time with an attempt at a Solution

My Solution for Baja: Force Canada to send Water to Baja{Both sides} through the colo. River where Power could be sold to the U>S..Use the Water for gtowth of Foods on Both sides of Baja and the East Coast.
After the Food ois being produced, close down the Central Valley,remove all Autos and polutating machines ,move the people out of the Cities and make the Valley one big new community.

Since the only ones who will work in the fields are Mexicanos they will be able to return to their country for work and to be closer to their Families.

I know that the biggest problem with my soultion is the fact that somewhere along the way Amexicano whould like something better for his family and would want to go where there are opportunities.
so we are back to the same Culture we have now.
Skeet/Loreto