BajaNomad

How to: Get my Mango to set fruit?

woody with a view - 2-28-2016 at 09:56 AM

Last year our Mango tree bloomed on the opposite side of the tree and didn't set any fruit. This year there are twice as many flowers starting to show. I've read that you can't water them enuf and also that after they are established they don't need extra watering. We don't really water it except in the midst of summer it'll get a few deep soakings.

Any tips to get it to set fruit?




[Edited on 2-28-2016 by woody with a view]

mcfez - 2-28-2016 at 10:12 AM

http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/fruits/mango/mango-tr...

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
Last year our Mango tree bloomed on the opposite side of the tree and didn't set any fruit. This year there are twice as many flowers starting to show. I've read that you can't water them enuf and also that after they are established they don't need extra watering. We don't really water it except in the midst of summer it'll get a few deep soakings.

Any tips to get it to set fruit?




[Edited on 2-28-2016 by woody with a view]

woody with a view - 2-28-2016 at 10:14 AM

i saw that site. i don't do any of the bad things they talk about. i guess some bone meal may be in order?

Jack Swords - 2-28-2016 at 10:18 AM

Post your question on here: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?board=1.0

David K - 2-28-2016 at 12:10 PM

California Rare Fruit Growers is an association all about growing exotics in California. http://crfg.org/

Here is their Mango growing information: http://crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html

micah202 - 2-28-2016 at 12:49 PM

.


.....pollination issues? ...a wild guess :cool:

mtgoat666 - 2-28-2016 at 01:21 PM

In San Diego mango really only does well inland where it has sufficient heat. Of course inland you also got to protect it from frost.
Maybe you are too close to coast, too cool to develop good fruit?

woody with a view - 2-28-2016 at 01:23 PM

i'm just east of 805 at about 250' elevation facing the coast.

mtgoat666 - 2-28-2016 at 01:29 PM

Consult an arborist that does fruit trees.
There is a local chapter of the CRFG. You could probably find a nerd there to look at your tree,...

Udo - 2-28-2016 at 01:41 PM

That's a great forum!


Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
Post your question on here: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?board=1.0

Udo - 2-28-2016 at 01:43 PM

Osprey's mangos are about 1000' from the water and in some fairly sandy soil, and he gets literally tons of fruit every year, and almost year-round.


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
In San Diego mango really only does well inland where it has sufficient heat. Of course inland you also got to protect it from frost.
Maybe you are too close to coast, too cool to develop good fruit?

woody with a view - 2-28-2016 at 05:51 PM

i'm thinking humidity is the missing ingredient.

David K - 2-28-2016 at 05:59 PM

Read the CRFG link I provided.

woody with a view - 2-28-2016 at 06:10 PM

i saw that. i just used a fish emulsion in a sprayer attached to the hose. we'll see, maybe this is the year for SD Mangos!

mcfez - 2-28-2016 at 08:29 PM

Sometimes a fruiting tree will simple not fruit. It takes a rest. Our entire Pluot orchard did this a year ago. Was there any change to the plant? Anything that disturbs a plant will affect it....believe it or not. Save a fruit for us when it does co operate :-)

woody with a view - 2-29-2016 at 07:11 PM

it has never set fruit. last year a couple of blooms. this year many, many blooms so maybe it's just hitting it's stride. it's about 10' tall and 7+ years old.

our resident hummingbird sits on the top and rules all he surveys!

Goyo - 2-29-2016 at 07:45 PM

Woody, do you know if the tree was grown from seed or grafted onto rootstock? If it was planted from seed, there's this:

"Seedlings are fairly easy to grow, but they may require 6 to 10 years or more to bear and the fruit may not be of desired quality unless the seedling came from a cultivar which comes true from seed."

Source: University of Florida
http://university.uog.edu.172-31-22-36.previewmywsisite.com/...

There's a mango tree in my neighborhood (Orange County and 10 miles inland) that's 12-15' tall and each year has hundreds if not a thousand mangos that set. But apparently these folks don't like the mangos so each summer they have all the mangos removed when they are the size of golf balls. Fuggers!


woody with a view - 2-29-2016 at 08:24 PM

it was bought from Anderson's Nursery so it was prolly grafted.

KaceyJ - 2-29-2016 at 09:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
it has never set fruit. last year a couple of blooms. this year many, many blooms so maybe it's just hitting it's stride. it's about 10' tall and 7+ years old.


Woody:

Quang Ong

Probably your best bet for info on mangos in SoCAl


Don Jorge - 3-1-2016 at 09:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
it was bought from Anderson's Nursery so it was prolly grafted.
Goyo is on the right track.

Check for signs of the graft union on the trunk at or near, above hopefully, or below soil level. I personally think from the pictures you posted the tree is healthy and will fruit this year. Nursery folk love to seed pots, grafting not so much.

Prolly some grom grew those plants from seeds he brought back from Tico land.

[Edited on 3-1-2016 by Don Jorge]

gsbotanico - 3-1-2016 at 10:04 AM

I have a mango tree that I planted from seed more than 30 years ago. It's about 15 feet tall. I live within several hundred yards of the ocean. Mango trees love heat and lots of it. My location is really too cool. I lived in West Africa for two years and mango trees were planted as street trees. It was stinkin' hot and the trees loved it.

I get a big fruit set each year, so much that I thin the fruit out. Except when the spring and summer are very warm I only get apricot sized fruit, but I've had big ones. The seed was from a big red Mexican mango. The trees tolerate a lot of drought. In Africa the trees bloomed and fruited before the rainy season started. I would experiment with cutting back on watering in the spring and early summer to stress the tree a little. And don't over fertilize. This makes the tree produce more foliage.

A grafted tree should be a variety that fruits well in cooler climates. Your photos look like the tree has excellent growth. Many plants flower and fruit bettered when stressed. I rarely irrigate my tree until the fruit is starting to size up.

[Edited on 3-1-2016 by gsbotanico]

woody with a view - 3-1-2016 at 01:21 PM

good info!

gsbotanico - 3-2-2016 at 02:34 PM

I didn't mention that mango trees self pollinate. I suspect that cool weather will cause pollination to fail. I'm a botanist and horticulturalist, but I'm just guessing from experience. It helps if the tree is planted in a nice sunny location and get full sun all day.

woody with a view - 3-2-2016 at 04:31 PM

Tree is against a fence but it in sun all day. I'm thinking this is the year!

mtgoat666 - 3-2-2016 at 07:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
Tree is against a fence but it in sun all day. I'm thinking this is the year!


The climate is warming, at an increasing rate, so should tree bear fruit one of these years, probably sooner than later, eh?

woody with a view - 3-2-2016 at 09:00 PM

and summer is coming, also!

Bugman - 3-4-2016 at 04:58 PM

I live in Escondido and have many mango trees in my yard. Fruiting can be problematic sometimes but it can depend on many things. Some species bear only every other year. If grown from seed the trees sometimes will flower for a few years before finally setting fruit. Cold and rain can sometimes mess with the flowers but the tree will usually just turn around and sprout a few more when the weather warms again. There are many varieties and some just fruit better than others. If you bought it locally in one of or nurseries then it most likely is a variety called manila but once in a while they may offer others. It is also better to let your mango tree get some size on it before letting it have fruit as they put all their energy into the fruit and growth will suffer. Your tree seems big enough that you should be able to let it keep several fruit should it set this year but the more it has the smaller the resulting fruit will be. Best of luck!

woody with a view - 3-4-2016 at 05:50 PM

manila sounds about right. i remove 60% of my peaches to allow the remaining to grow bigger. i'l do the same if mango fruits.

woody with a view - 4-1-2016 at 05:55 PM

I'm not getting my hopes up, yet. Sprinkled a bunch of good organic fertilizer about a month ago, watered once and let nature do its thing.

image.jpeg - 134kBimage.jpeg - 135kBimage.jpeg - 151kB

Bajaboy - 4-1-2016 at 06:00 PM

I've read if you invite your amigos over and drink good beer near the tree, your luck will improve:light:

I do have that Mexican contraband from Blanca to deliver.

woody with a view - 4-1-2016 at 06:09 PM

I'll call ya

MitchMan - 4-2-2016 at 07:53 AM

I have a mature mango tree in my back yard in La Paz. It almost died two years ago because it wasn't getting enough water. It is now getting water every other day and is coming back to life. It didn't set any fruit last year because of trauma of not getting enough water as the tree sets on the highest point in the yard and the little bit of rain that has fallen in the last three years usually runs away from the tree. But, this year, it is flowering like never before.

Early last year, I dug a trench and berm at the drip line. Then, in that berm, I put some ammonium sulfate, Vigaro 17-17-17, compost, bone meal and Epsom salt, then topped it with with palm leaves to keep the moisture in. The irrigation is directed into that berm.

I can tell the nitrogen is kicking in about now.

[Edited on 4-2-2016 by MitchMan]

PAUL TOMPSON CRFG

David K - 4-2-2016 at 08:29 AM

Tropical trees like heat, humidity (air water), and ground water. Mangos have been growing in San Diego County since the 1940s or so. Paul Tompson, founder of the California Rare Fruit Growers found an ideal site in Vista, CA (off Foothill/ Warmlands) he believed could grow mangos.

Here is the data on Mango growing in California: http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html

Here is a little about Paul's mango project (note, the last name is misspelled, it has no h):

Several local sources credit Thompson with bringing mangoes to the attention of North County growers in 1963. Thompson's legendary Edgehill Grove in Vista contained several mango trees when he bought it several decades ago.

"The previous owner had mango trees of his own, probably planted at the turn of the century. This was proof positive that mangoes would grow in the area," said Thompson, a founder of the California Rare Fruit Growers Inc. "At that time, I was in the nursery business. I brought in every mango variety I could lay my hands on from the tropics and from everywhere else."

He increased his mango tree collection to 70 varieties. "They estimate there are over 1,000 varieties of mangoes in India alone," Thompson said. "I would think there are more mangoes eaten around the world than apples."

Andrea Peterson of Peterson and Pio Quality Produce is one of the growers who credits Thompson with doing the basic research for the suitability of mangoes in Southern California.

gsbotanico - 4-4-2016 at 08:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MitchMan  
I have a mature mango tree in my back yard in La Paz. It almost died two years ago because it wasn't getting enough water. It is now getting water every other day and is coming back to life. It didn't set any fruit last year because of trauma of not getting enough water as the tree sets on the highest point in the yard and the little bit of rain that has fallen in the last three years usually runs away from the tree. But, this year, it is flowering like never before.

Early last year, I dug a trench and berm at the drip line. Then, in that berm, I put some ammonium sulfate, Vigaro 17-17-17, compost, bone meal and Epsom salt, then topped it with with palm leaves to keep the moisture in. The irrigation is directed into that berm.

I can tell the nitrogen is kicking in about now.

[Edited on 4-2-2016 by MitchMan]


It sounds like you've given the tree a big boost of fertilizer to get it growing well again. For the long term I have some suggestions. Most plants want nitrogen and potassium in equal amounts. The only potassium I see is in the Vigaro 17-17-17. The three numbers are percentages of nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium respectively. The ammonium sulfate adds additional nitrogen and unbalances the potassium.

The 17% phosphorus is high if the Vigaro is applied more that once or twice in a year. Plants need less phosphorus, and phosphorus can accumulate in the soil if applied too often and cause deficiencies in micro-nutrients, especially iron, copper, zinc, and manganese. Some plants, like citrus, are very sensitive to these deficiencies.

I don't see any calcium in the list, although the Vigaro 17-17-17 may have some in its formula. The label will say. Plants need calcium, which should be kept in balance with potassium and magnesium. Gypsum (calcium sulfate) is a good source and can be applied one or twice a years. Called "yeso" in Spanish, if you are looking for it. It's cheap and useful to improve the texture of any soil that clumps and goes very hard when it dries.

Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, so are beneficial. Sulfates, instead of nitrates, are also beneficial as a source of sulfur, which helps to maintain an acidic pH in the soil. This is useful if the irrigation water is alkaline. Alkalinity is a huge problem in northern Baja, and commercial growers often have to inject acid into the irrigation water to keep the soil from becoming too alkaline. A pH of 7 is neutral, and most plants grow best in slightly acidic soils of pH 6.0 - 6.5. Alkalinity is a problem in low rainfall areas. The opposite is true in high rainfall areas. Not sure how La Paz fits into all of this.

My apologies if all this information is too geeky. I hope at least some of it is helpful. One final point. Organic material, compost or palm fronds, is always beneficial. The one exception is eucalyptus compost, which can be toxic to some plants. Ever notice that many eucalyptus species don't have much growing under them?

woody with a view - 5-14-2016 at 04:39 PM

I'm not counting my Mangos before they hatch but I have a good feeling about the whole thing. There is a 20' tree in the hood I noticed that had 1000 like my small ones with a few egg sized so it must be a good year. I've got about 20 others like the smallest one shown here.

IMG_1346.JPG - 107kB

[Edited on 5-15-2016 by woody with a view]

David K - 5-14-2016 at 08:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gsbotanico  
Quote: Originally posted by MitchMan  
I have a mature mango tree in my back yard in La Paz. It almost died two years ago because it wasn't getting enough water. It is now getting water every other day and is coming back to life. It didn't set any fruit last year because of trauma of not getting enough water as the tree sets on the highest point in the yard and the little bit of rain that has fallen in the last three years usually runs away from the tree. But, this year, it is flowering like never before.

Early last year, I dug a trench and berm at the drip line. Then, in that berm, I put some ammonium sulfate, Vigaro 17-17-17, compost, bone meal and Epsom salt, then topped it with with palm leaves to keep the moisture in. The irrigation is directed into that berm.

I can tell the nitrogen is kicking in about now.

[Edited on 4-2-2016 by MitchMan]


It sounds like you've given the tree a big boost of fertilizer to get it growing well again. For the long term I have some suggestions. Most plants want nitrogen and potassium in equal amounts. The only potassium I see is in the Vigaro 17-17-17. The three numbers are percentages of nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium respectively. The ammonium sulfate adds additional nitrogen and unbalances the potassium.

The 17% phosphorus is high if the Vigaro is applied more that once or twice in a year. Plants need less phosphorus, and phosphorus can accumulate in the soil if applied too often and cause deficiencies in micro-nutrients, especially iron, copper, zinc, and manganese. Some plants, like citrus, are very sensitive to these deficiencies.

I don't see any calcium in the list, although the Vigaro 17-17-17 may have some in its formula. The label will say. Plants need calcium, which should be kept in balance with potassium and magnesium. Gypsum (calcium sulfate) is a good source and can be applied one or twice a years. Called "yeso" in Spanish, if you are looking for it. It's cheap and useful to improve the texture of any soil that clumps and goes very hard when it dries.

Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, so are beneficial. Sulfates, instead of nitrates, are also beneficial as a source of sulfur, which helps to maintain an acidic pH in the soil. This is useful if the irrigation water is alkaline. Alkalinity is a huge problem in northern Baja, and commercial growers often have to inject acid into the irrigation water to keep the soil from becoming too alkaline. A pH of 7 is neutral, and most plants grow best in slightly acidic soils of pH 6.0 - 6.5. Alkalinity is a problem in low rainfall areas. The opposite is true in high rainfall areas. Not sure how La Paz fits into all of this.

My apologies if all this information is too geeky. I hope at least some of it is helpful. One final point. Organic material, compost or palm fronds, is always beneficial. The one exception is eucalyptus compost, which can be toxic to some plants. Ever notice that many eucalyptus species don't have much growing under them?


As both an irrigation professional and a past member of the California Rare Fruit Growers, I find your post most exceptional and thank you for it!

Jack Swords - 5-15-2016 at 08:08 AM

To be completely fair, Paul Tompson was a cofounder of the CRFG with John Riley. John was located in N CA while Paul was in the S CA. CRFG is alive and well and this year the SLO CRFG is hosting the Festival of Fruit in August.

David K - 5-15-2016 at 08:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
To be completely fair, Paul Tompson was a cofounder of the CRFG with John Riley. John was located in N CA while Paul was in the S CA. CRFG is alive and well and this year the SLO CRFG is hosting the Festival of Fruit in August.


I had the pleasure to meet and do business with Paul Thomson (no p) in Vista, CA at the irrigation store I worked at (1986-1994). I also wrote to and obtain seeds from John Riley... Both very devoted to the idea that we can grow more than oranges and apples in California!

My personal contributions to CRFG were in the 1980s when I wrote articles about varieties of and growing bananas in Southern California. I had over 40 varieties growing at one time, along with guavas, passionfruit, cherimoyas, sugarcane and other fruit that was rare for California (at the time)! A list of past articles from CRFG publications on bananas:

BANANA
A Survey of Major Banana Cultivars. By K. Shepherd. 1988 J, pp 33-38 Abyssinian Banana (M. ensete); Rajapuri (M. nana); M. balbisiana; Etc.. By John C. Oberlin. 1976 #1, p 9 All About Bananas. By William F. Whitman. 1983 YB, pp 77-82 Banana Blossoms: a Gourmet's Delight. By Robert E. Bond. 1988 J, pp 45-46 Banana Cultivars and Their Characteristics. By H. Dale Sato. 1988 J,pp 21-23 Banana Notes for Southern California. By Brian Lievens. 1984 #3, pp 14-15 Banana Stains. By Dorothy N. Runde. 1986 #4, p 24 Banana Varieties and Synonyms. By David Kier. 1988 J, p 17 Bananas. By Brian Lievens. 1988 J, pp 9-13 Bananas in Ventura County, Calif. By Richard E. Watts. 1986 #1, pp 5-6 Bananas in Your Backyard. By Jim Neitzel. 1980 #4, p 25 Bananas. By Peggy Winter. 1981 #4, pp 12-14 Bits & Pieces. By Peggy Winter. 1987 #1, pp 25-26 Bits & Pieces: Banana Stains. By Peggy Winter. 1986 #3, pp 20-21 Book Reviews: Food; Bananas; Cooking with Exotic Fruits and Vegetables. Reviewed by Eph Konigsberg. 1988 #1, pp 23-24 Chemical Weed Control in Banana. By C. L. Chia and R. K. Nishimoto. 1988 J, pp 28-32 Culture of Rare Fruits in the San Francisco Bay Area. By J. Garrin Fullington. 1974 #4, pp 3-6, Enano gigante Bananas. By David Guggenheim. 1984 #4, p 4 Ensete: the Abyssinian Banana. By William Drysdale. 1988 J, pp 18-19 From Where the Banana. By Ron Kadish. 1988 #4, pp 48-50 Fruits Recommended by Specialists. 1989 YB, pp 34-35 Gleanings: Bananas; Need for Proven Varieties; Promising Hawaiian Types. By Jim Neitzel. 1984 #3, pp 28-29 Growing Bananas in the Hollywood Hills. By Steven Spangler. 1975 #4, pp 11-12 Growing the Cavendish Banana. By Brian Lievens. 1982 YB, pp 59-62 How to Grow a Banana Tree. By David Kier. 1986 #3, pp 18-19 How to Grow Better Bananas. By Edwin Gardner. 1971 #3, p 8 In Search of the Banana of Domingo. By Steven Spangler. 1977 #4, pp 8-9 Keeping California Clean. By Peggy Winter. 1982 #2, p 27 New Bananas from Hawaii. By Peggy Winter. 1983 #3, p 11 News from the Hills. By David Silber. 1988 #4, pp 5-7 Notes From a Grower/experimenter. By David Silber. 1987 #3, pp 20-21 Notes from John Townsend, Kauai Hawaii. By John Townsend. 1982 #2, pp 10-12 Orinoco: the Most Reliable Banana Cultivar. By Louis Lopyan. 1988 J, pp 19-20 Ornamental Bananas. By William Drysdale. 1988 J, pp 24-26 Planting Bananas. By Peggy Winter. 1982 #4, p 2 Principal Banana Varieties and Synonyms. By David Kier. 1985 #4, p 29 Questions and Answers. By Richard D. Tkachuck. 1985 #2, pp 10-11; 1986 #1, p 32 Remembered Fruits of the Philippines. By John McIntyre Jr.. 1976 YB, p 55 The Last Banana Leaf. By Eph Konigsberg. 1987 #4, p 19 The Origin of Banana Varieties. By R. E. Coronel and F. N. Rivera. 1983 YB, pp 73-76 The Year of the Banana. By Walter V. Jerris. 1988 J, pp 1-8 Why You Can't Grow Bananas in So. Calif. By Eph Konigsberg. 1987 #3, pp 12-14


Here is the CRFG founders story: http://www.crfg.org/founders.html

[Edited on 5-15-2016 by David K]

gsbotanico - 5-15-2016 at 09:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by gsbotanico  


It sounds like you've given the tree a big boost of fertilizer to get it growing well again. For the long term I have some suggestions. Most plants want nitrogen and potassium in equal amounts. The only potassium I see is in the Vigaro 17-17-17. The three numbers are percentages of nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium respectively. The ammonium sulfate adds additional nitrogen and unbalances the potassium.

The 17% phosphorus is high if the Vigaro is applied more that once or twice in a year. Plants need less phosphorus, and phosphorus can accumulate in the soil if applied too often and cause deficiencies in micro-nutrients, especially iron, copper, zinc, and manganese. Some plants, like citrus, are very sensitive to these deficiencies.

I don't see any calcium in the list, although the Vigaro 17-17-17 may have some in its formula. The label will say. Plants need calcium, which should be kept in balance with potassium and magnesium. Gypsum (calcium sulfate) is a good source and can be applied one or twice a years. Called "yeso" in Spanish, if you are looking for it. It's cheap and useful to improve the texture of any soil that clumps and goes very hard when it dries.

Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, so are beneficial. Sulfates, instead of nitrates, are also beneficial as a source of sulfur, which helps to maintain an acidic pH in the soil. This is useful if the irrigation water is alkaline. Alkalinity is a huge problem in northern Baja, and commercial growers often have to inject acid into the irrigation water to keep the soil from becoming too alkaline. A pH of 7 is neutral, and most plants grow best in slightly acidic soils of pH 6.0 - 6.5. Alkalinity is a problem in low rainfall areas. The opposite is true in high rainfall areas. Not sure how La Paz fits into all of this.

My apologies if all this information is too geeky. I hope at least some of it is helpful. One final point. Organic material, compost or palm fronds, is always beneficial. The one exception is eucalyptus compost, which can be toxic to some plants. Ever notice that many eucalyptus species don't have much growing under them?


As both an irrigation professional and a past member of the California Rare Fruit Growers, I find your post most exceptional and thank you for it!

You're welcome. I'm a professional too. I've worked a long time in Mexico and traveled a lot in mainland Mexico. I met a couple who were former Peace Corps volunteers (I'm one too) and who bought property in Ocosingo, Chiapas on the road between Palenque and San Cristóbal de las Casas. They were growing macadamias, birds of paradise flowers, and organic coffee. They also had "cabañas" (really jungle huts) for guests. I freely helped them via fax with nutritional problems with the macadamias. Unfortunately they were run out by rebel Zapatistas and lost their land about a year after I met them. Too bad because they employed local people and had started a good ecotourism business. It was called Rancho Esmeralda. It's closure saddened me.

Jack Swords - 5-15-2016 at 10:00 AM

Shameless plug:

http://www.crfg.org/index.html

http://festivaloffruit.org/

MitchMan - 5-15-2016 at 12:15 PM

gsbotanico, thank you very much for the post.

I just saw your post today. Fantastic info. And, no, your post was not too geeky for me. I am very familiar with fertilizer composition as I am into growing tomatoes and learned a great deal about tomato plant chemistry and how the physical properties of the grow media and the specific chemical properties of fertilizer chemical compounds work...with regard to container tomato growing. I am a complete novice when it comes to citrus trees.

Very open to any and all advice and info on growing citrus trees. I have one mango tree, one orange tree and one lime tree in Baja and an avocado tree, Fremont Mandarin orange tree and a key lime tree in California together with 19 container tomatoes. This year, I am conducting 16 different experiments with container tomatoes after working all year on nailing down (as best I could) chemical attributes of fertilizers and physical attributes of potting mix.

Over the past year an a half, I fertilized all three fruit trees in La Paz with 17-17-17 for NPK, ammonium sulfate, bone meal (for phosphorus and calcium), Sul Po Mag for potassium and sulfur, Epsom salts for magnesium and sulfur, and a little store bought compost. The lime tree is doing gangbusters, the mango tree is recouping quite well and has fruited really well this year (after not setting any fruit last year), but the orange tree looks really bad and I do not know why. All three trees get plenty of water, but the orange tree is drying up and smaller branches have died, dried up and broken off for some unknown and inexplicable reason to me. Funny thing, though, the orange tree is setting a lot of fruit, just not that many leaves left on the tree???

I have a good handle on NPK and the minor macronutrients and the micronutrients for tomatoes, but I know nothing about the like fertilizer requirements for citrus trees.

One note. Everybody calls 17-17-17 or 10-10-10 or 6-6-6 a "balanced" fertilizer. In my view, there is nothing balanced about it from a chemical perspective. The 17-17-17 is the % by weight of NPK respectively. But for N, it is that element only at 17%. When you apply the same perspective to the P in NPK, the 17% means Potassium Oxide compound denoted as P2O5 wherein the P is actually only 43% of the compound it self. The same type of thing exists for the K in NPK. The K refers to K20 compound where the element K is 83% by weight of that compound. Therefore, to restate NPK at the 'elemental level' it would be more like 17-8-15 and there is nothing balanced about that.

Also, different plants absorb (uptake) nutrients at different ratios. The real trick is to know just exactly how much does a mango tree absorb of the key nutrients over one entire growing season. If you know that, then you can apply your fertilizers accordingly with accuracy as most fertilizers disclose their contents by % weight. Without knowing that exactly, one can only guess and thereby wind up using only trial and error. For further confusion, different citrus tree fertilizers have vastly different compositions and application rates, so, they are not much of reliable guideline given that they differ so greatly from each other. It's even worse for tomato growing.

Never hear of anybody growing tomatoes in Baja, that is, with few exceptions. The weather in BCS is perfect for tomatoes from January to May.

[Edited on 5-15-2016 by MitchMan]

David K - 5-15-2016 at 01:25 PM

Great stuff gs botanico and Jack!

MitchMan, triple 15 is popular here, but I feel there is no research behind that thinking. I used 21-7-14 on my banana trees to cover the nitrogen & potassium demands.

mtgoat666 - 5-15-2016 at 02:12 PM

Fruit trees are pretty hardy. Worry less about the fertilizer and more about the conditions. Not too much or too little or too frequent water. Keep lots of mulch over roots area. Fertilizer in moderation. Kill weeds under the canopy.

Quote: Originally posted by MitchMan  
gsbotanico, thank you very much for the post.

I just saw your post today. Fantastic info. And, no, your post was not too geeky for me. I am very familiar with fertilizer composition as I am into growing tomatoes and learned a great deal about tomato plant chemistry and how the physical properties of the grow media and the specific chemical properties of fertilizer chemical compounds work...with regard to container tomato growing. I am a complete novice when it comes to citrus trees.

Very open to any and all advice and info on growing citrus trees. I have one mango tree, one orange tree and one lime tree in Baja and an avocado tree, Fremont Mandarin orange tree and a key lime tree in California together with 19 container tomatoes. This year, I am conducting 16 different experiments with container tomatoes after working all year on nailing down (as best I could) chemical attributes of fertilizers and physical attributes of potting mix.

Over the past year an a half, I fertilized all three fruit trees in La Paz with 17-17-17 for NPK, ammonium sulfate, bone meal (for phosphorus and calcium), Sul Po Mag for potassium and sulfur, Epsom salts for magnesium and sulfur, and a little store bought compost. The lime tree is doing gangbusters, the mango tree is recouping quite well and has fruited really well this year (after not setting any fruit last year), but the orange tree looks really bad and I do not know why. All three trees get plenty of water, but the orange tree is drying up and smaller branches have died, dried up and broken off for some unknown and inexplicable reason to me. Funny thing, though, the orange tree is setting a lot of fruit, just not that many leaves left on the tree???

I have a good handle on NPK and the minor macronutrients and the micronutrients for tomatoes, but I know nothing about the like fertilizer requirements for citrus trees.

One note. Everybody calls 17-17-17 or 10-10-10 or 6-6-6 a "balanced" fertilizer. In my view, there is nothing balanced about it from a chemical perspective. The 17-17-17 is the % by weight of NPK respectively. But for N, it is that element only at 17%. When you apply the same perspective to the P in NPK, the 17% means Potassium Oxide compound denoted as P2O5 wherein the P is actually only 43% of the compound it self. The same type of thing exists for the K in NPK. The K refers to K20 compound where the element K is 83% by weight of that compound. Therefore, to restate NPK at the 'elemental level' it would be more like 17-8-15 and there is nothing balanced about that.

Also, different plants absorb (uptake) nutrients at different ratios. The real trick is to know just exactly how much does a mango tree absorb of the key nutrients over one entire growing season. If you know that, then you can apply your fertilizers accordingly with accuracy as most fertilizers disclose their contents by % weight. Without knowing that exactly, one can only guess and thereby wind up using only trial and error. For further confusion, different citrus tree fertilizers have vastly different compositions and application rates, so, they are not much of reliable guideline given that they differ so greatly from each other. It's even worse for tomato growing.

Never hear of anybody growing tomatoes in Baja, that is, with few exceptions. The weather in BCS is perfect for tomatoes from January to May.

[Edited on 5-15-2016 by MitchMan]

MitchMan - 5-15-2016 at 03:21 PM

Thanks, Goat. Actually, I think that my problem could be over watering of the mango and orange trees.

gsbotanico - 5-15-2016 at 05:14 PM

Mitchman: I won't quote your post.

You're right about the triple 17,15, or any other number not being balanced. I argue with fertilizer salesmen in Mexico all the time about "triple quince," which is what they are often pushing.

There's another factor in play. Certain nutrients, especially N,K, and Mg are absorbed very quickly by the roots. At the same time under heavy irrigation or heavy rains they can be leached out very quickly, especially in sandy soils. This is where organic matter can help to retain the nutrients. N, K, Mg deficiencies are quick to correct. Excess N, K, and Mg can easily burn the leaves. All of these fertilizers are chemically salts, like table salt (sodium chloride). Plants don't like Na or Cl. High levels in well water cause big problems. Some plants like tomatoes are more salt tolerant. Many other plants are not.

I've been told that lots of tomatoes are grown in greenhouses in BCS for winter production. I don't have firsthand knowledge of this. I know that in BC there is both greenhouse and field production of tomatoes. I've talked with growers about this. Los Pinos is the big grower in the San Quintín area.

Calcium can precipitate out and become unavailable at higher soil pHs. Organic material helps to lower the pH to acidify the soil. P is absorbed very slowly and usually recommended as a preplant fertilization with incorporation into the soil. P deficiencies are very slow to correct. Phosphoric acid in the irrigation water is the faster way.

I don't know what's causing the problem in your orange tree. Orange trees will often drop older leaves when fruit is setting. Normally new leaves and blooms form at the same time. Have you checked for pests? Spider mites, or something else might be causing the problem. Get a hand lens and look at the back of the leaves and the small adjacent branches. Mites are very tiny and can defoliate a plant if the infestation gets out of control. For fertilization the only thing to worry about is iron and zinc deficiency. This manifests itself with a general persistent yellowing of the leaves. Chelated forms of both nutrients will take care of the problem, but can be slow to correct the problem.

Looks like you got some fruit to set Woody. Nice.

Don Jorge - 5-15-2016 at 06:34 PM

We finally got to pick a few papaya fruits from some of our plants in San Clemente. Hope you get some mangoes to eat.

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woody with a view - 5-16-2016 at 06:22 AM

We've got a our 10 one inch tall Papayas scattered around the yard. They grow very well around the hood!

Mexitron - 5-16-2016 at 10:16 AM

Regarding citrus, ants are often the problem, at least in SoCal, as they bring in aphid, scale, and mealybug to farm them for the sugars they excrete. Go after the ants best you can then spray the leaves hard with a hose end sprayer that has a spoonful of dish soap in it.
Citrus have a hard time absorbing some micronutrients--an easy fix for a homeowner is to foliar feed with Miracle-Gro which has lots of chelated micronutrients that can bypass the root nutrient absorbtion problem. Not exactly an assayed farmer's approach but on a small scale it works fine. For mangoes its probably too high in phosphorus to use more than a couple times to kick start an ailing plant.

gsbotanico - 5-17-2016 at 10:51 AM

Don Jorge: Nice papayas! I was never successful in my garden in Cardiff by the Sea -- too close to the ocean and no southern exposure in the winter time to keep them warm. I grew them in the ranch greenhouses and got great results. They grew so tall that I had to use a ladder to pick the fruit, if the workers didn't take the fruit first.

Papaya seeds germinate very easily. I grew the Hawaiian variety. I like its flavor the best. Nothing beats a locally grown fresh papaya, matured on the tree. When traveling in tropical Mexico, I always order fresh papaya with lime.

When doing my Peace Corps training for tropical Africa, we were told that we when first got to Africa a papaya would taste like an overripe cantaloupe and that when we got home a cantaloupe would taste like an underripe papaya. How true!

surfhat - 5-17-2016 at 01:50 PM

Papaya, The Melon of Health. I still have that book from decades ago and have loved them ever since.

Those Hawaiian strawberry papayas are the best but expensive to buy compared to the large Mexican ones. Hey Botanico, spread some my way, good buddy, if you ever have too many. haha. Thanks to all here.

BFS - 5-19-2016 at 06:04 AM

Looking good Woody! Mangos are coming everywhere I think. All the trees here in BCS are loaded beyond description right now. It is going to be a banner season.

woody with a view - 5-19-2016 at 06:11 AM

Hey Aleq good to see you!

BFS - 5-20-2016 at 06:36 PM

yo! Good to "see" you too amigo. Hope life up norte is fabulous...Say hi to Bea for me.
Abrazos

alacran - 5-20-2016 at 07:07 PM

Urine is a good fertilizer.

woody with a view - 5-20-2016 at 11:14 PM

Mayan isn't.

Aleq, all is well in Gringolandia! We may be ready for another excursion soon!

Sad time in Whoville

woody with a view - 7-1-2016 at 06:36 PM

seems like the mango didn't get enuf water! it's all a learning experience and there are stil 20-ish left that are 1/2 this size. next year i'll be more regular with the watering and see if that's the problem.

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David K - 7-1-2016 at 08:10 PM

Happy to help with how to automate your irrigation system Woody.

woody with a view - 7-3-2016 at 06:47 AM

Thanks for the offer. I prefer to hand water while I prowl my garden areas.

Mexitron - 7-3-2016 at 10:12 AM

Woody--I'm amazed how much better my plants grow when watered automatically rather than by hand---they seem to really like a schedule!

David K - 7-3-2016 at 11:40 AM

Exactly Steve... keeps the tree out of stress (too little water to too much water and irregular frequency of waterings).

Automatic irrigation ensures that every [x] days at [x] o'clock the tree will get [x] gallons of water (by setting the number of minutes or hours). You choose the x factors, but then there is consistency and optimum growing conditions.