BajaNomad

The "Lost Missions" of Baja... May '16 Baja Bound Newsletter

David K - 5-19-2016 at 10:19 AM

In the newest edition of the Baja Bound newsletter, I try to shed some light on several 'missions' that really were not true missions and on the mythical "lost missions" of Baja California:

https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/lost_mis...

TMW - 5-19-2016 at 10:51 AM

So when are we going to do a search for Mission Santa Isabel between Santa Maria and Cerro Matomi.

What ever happened to the Diaz grave hunt. I thought you and Paul W were going to look from the east side.

BajaGeoff - 5-19-2016 at 10:54 AM

We still want to do the Diaz grave hunt! Work has gotten in the way of the next journey, but we still might be able get out there before it gets too hot. Let's go DK!

David K - 5-19-2016 at 11:07 AM

Geoff: It's never too hot, as long as you have cold beer!

Tom: We did a search between the two points, and you were there!
Do you have another idea? How about we go to the arch south of Arroyo Matomí?





I picked up the forms to renew my recently expired passport... I will let you know TW of any planned dates.

4x4abc - 5-19-2016 at 11:13 AM



[Edited on 5-19-2016 by 4x4abc]

TMW - 5-19-2016 at 12:28 PM

I don't think I have been to the arch, would love to go.

Fatboy - 5-20-2016 at 12:07 PM

Nice article on the lost Missions, David.

Perhaps someone could expand on the structure of the mission systems. I understand there was several orders involved but what made a location a location a "Mission" vs a "Visita"?

Did all Missions have Visitas?

Was there other locations that where not Missions or Visitas?

Did all Visitas have the same purpose?

When a Mission was moved at what point would it be a different Mission? I mean if there is a Mission at location X and then later a Mission at location Y then they shut down X, does that mean they moved X to Y? Or was Y separate and its own Mission?

And so on :)

David K - 5-20-2016 at 02:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Fatboy  
Nice article on the lost Missions, David.

1) Perhaps someone could expand on the structure of the mission systems. I understand there was several orders involved but what made a location a location a "Mission" vs a "Visita"?

2) Did all Missions have Visitas?

3) Was there other locations that where not Missions or Visitas?

4) Did all Visitas have the same purpose?

5) When a Mission was moved at what point would it be a different Mission? I mean if there is a Mission at location X and then later a Mission at location Y then they shut down X, does that mean they moved X to Y? Or was Y separate and its own Mission?

And so on :)


I am going to guess you haven't read my new book, Baja California Land of Missions yet?

I will guarantee you will find it interesting and valuable at answering these great questions.

I will answer your questions here, as well, later when I am home.
David

EDIT: Okay, at home now...

1) A (Jesuit) mission had its own endowment (financing) and an assigned priest once the site was found and approved. The Jesuits founded 17 missions in California (remember the peninsula was the only place called California before 1769). The 10 missions established after the Jesuits were removed were under civil authority and financing... basically government projects. However, the missionaries were motivated by their faith to convert the natives and teach them civilized living. Visitas were satellite locations of the head mission. A chapel may be located there and some were as large as mission churches. The priest from the head mission would "visit" these visitas on rotation. Sometimes a priest in training lived at a visita.

2) Most did, but the records are not clear if all did or if they just had native rancherías assigned rather than any European constructed church. Many missions were visitas first: Santa Rosa/Todos Santos; Dolores/ La Pasión; San Luis Gonzaga; San Borja might be considered one belonging to Santa Gertrudis between 1759 and 1762; El Descanso/ San Miguel was more of a dual mission...

3) Sure, that mystery site near Las Animas could be one? The Magdalena site near Mulegé is a great example of well-known mission construction but without documentation that I have seen. The wall at Puerto Escondido is another and the list goes on and on. The missionaries were quite active as were their neophytes. The hundreds of miles of road building is a biggie we can see much of to this day... even from space!

4) Basically, they were as large an operation as needed for the population. They were satellite farms and ranches to support the population there and the head mission they belonged to. In some cases (like San Juan Londo, north of Loreto, and San Miguel [next to Comondú]), the only thing different between a visita and a mission was official recognition, a separate endowment, and a resident priest.

X moving to Y would still be mission X (but might be called Y unofficially after the move), the one example case may be Pilar de la Paz... which moved to Todos Santos... where a mission called Santa Rosa was established. The book clears it up very nicely, I think.

I believe I really made it all easy to understand in the book, which is written chronologically from 1533 to 1855, with the missions founded from 1697 to 1834.

[Edited on 5-20-2016 by David K]

Fatboy - 5-20-2016 at 04:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by Fatboy  
Nice article on the lost Missions, David.

Perhaps someone could expand on the structure of the mission systems. I understand there was several orders involved but what made a location a location a "Mission" vs a "Visita"?

Did all Missions have Visitas?

Was there other locations that where not Missions or Visitas?

Did all Visitas have the same purpose?

When a Mission was moved at what point would it be a different Mission? I mean if there is a Mission at location X and then later a Mission at location Y then they shut down X, does that mean they moved X to Y? Or was Y separate and its own Mission?

And so on :)


I am going to guess you haven't read my new book, Baja California Land of Missions yet?

I will guarantee you will find it interesting and valuable at answering these great questions.

I will answer your questions here, as well, later when I am home.
David


Missions are not really my thing, interested in the history, amazed by exploration, shocked by the exploitation.

Am always interested in the mechanics of systems though, they had ways and means of doing things that intrigues me much the same way an army has but I wouldn't buy a book about the military.

To me the the interesting part of the story is about the underlying systems that supports such an endeavor and not always the endeavor itself.

Would be very interested to my questions and to the questions I do not even know to ask yet.

David K - 5-20-2016 at 04:50 PM

I edited the post just above with some answers for you...

Baja makes most anyone appreciate or want to learn more about Old California!
Quote: Originally posted by Fatboy  
Nice article on the lost Missions, David.

1) Perhaps someone could expand on the structure of the mission systems. I understand there was several orders involved but what made a location a location a "Mission" vs a "Visita"?

2) Did all Missions have Visitas?

3) Was there other locations that where not Missions or Visitas?

4) Did all Visitas have the same purpose?

5) When a Mission was moved at what point would it be a different Mission? I mean if there is a Mission at location X and then later a Mission at location Y then they shut down X, does that mean they moved X to Y? Or was Y separate and its own Mission?

And so on :)


I am going to guess you haven't read my new book, Baja California Land of Missions yet?

I will guarantee you will find it interesting and valuable at answering these great questions.

I will answer your questions here, as well, later when I am home.
David

EDIT: Okay, at home now...

1) A (Jesuit) mission had its own endowment (financing) and an assigned priest once the site was found and approved. The Jesuits founded 17 missions in California (remember the peninsula was the only place called California before 1769). The 10 missions established after the Jesuits were removed were under civil authority and financing... basically government projects. However, the missionaries were motivated by their faith to convert the natives and teach them civilized living. Visitas were satellite locations of the head mission. A chapel may be located there and some were as large as mission churches. The priest from the head mission would "visit" these visitas on rotation. Sometimes a priest in training lived at a visita.

2) Most did, but the records are not clear if all did or if they just had native rancherías assigned rather than any European constructed church. Many missions were visitas first: Santa Rosa/Todos Santos; Dolores/ La Pasión; San Luis Gonzaga; San Borja might be considered one belonging to Santa Gertrudis between 1759 and 1762; El Descanso/ San Miguel was more of a dual mission...

3) Sure, that mystery site near Las Animas could be one? The Magdalena site near Mulegé is a great example of well-known mission construction but without documentation that I have seen. The wall at Puerto Escondido is another and the list goes on and on. The missionaries were quite active as were their neophytes. The hundreds of miles of road building is a biggie we can see much of to this day... even from space!

4) Basically, they were as large an operation as needed for the population. They were satellite farms and ranches to support the population there and the head mission they belonged to. In some cases (like San Juan Londo, north of Loreto, and San Miguel [next to Comondú]), the only thing different between a visita and a mission was official recognition, a separate endowment, and a resident priest.

X moving to Y would still be mission X (but might be called Y unofficially after the move), the one example case may be Pilar de la Paz... which moved to Todos Santos... where a mission called Santa Rosa was established. The book clears it up very nicely, I think.

I believe I really made it all easy to understand in the book, which is written chronologically from 1533 to 1855, with the missions founded from 1697 to 1834.


[Edited on 5-20-2016 by David K]

Fatboy - 5-20-2016 at 05:19 PM

Awesome David, that clears things up to me and make sense!

If I believed in a Heaven it would be a place where all your questions are answered and mysteries are made clear.

Thank You!

David K - 5-20-2016 at 07:10 PM

Some mysteries will never be solved but make life interesting and keep us seeking the answers!