BajaNomad

THE SAN QUINTÍN REBELLION

Cisco - 6-5-2016 at 05:04 PM



https://itsgoingdown.org/san-quintin-rebellion/

BigBearRider - 6-5-2016 at 11:33 PM

An incredibly compelling read. Thank you.

Bajahowodd - 6-6-2016 at 04:22 PM

I am certainly no scholar on this subject. However it seems to me that NAFTA was the genesis of the explosion of agriculture in the San Quintin area. If there was a single benefit to the worker, it was that they did not have to brave the dangerous illegal crossing of the border to find work.

So now that companies, such as were mentioned, including Oxnard, California based Driscolls and the Mexico based others don't want to pay increased wages and benefits, these jobs could be potentially lost, simply because it would raise the costs to consumers.

It's a sad mix of greedy corporations and consumers shopping for the lowest price.

I don't have an answer.

bajaguy - 6-6-2016 at 04:30 PM

Might be interesting to know what wages/benefits are provided by each grower/packer

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-6-2016 at 09:21 PM

i am very glad that this was brought to the forefront of the news for these workers.

when i passed through san quintin driving both ways to and from los barriles, i had no idea that they were treated so badly. when i went shopping at the stores in san quintin, i did see that they didn't have a whole lot of monies shopping at the markets there.

crossing bridges on my way to where i was going and back, i saw tarps covering bushes where i could see workers camping wherever they could.

i guess the company stores were as they were during the depression in the states as they charged whatever they could and the workers had no choice and they left after the crops were gathered with less than what they arrived with.

sad that people that work so hard are treated so badly.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

BajaBlanca - 6-7-2016 at 11:15 AM

How brutal - how awful.

And then we have Suzy who runs an amazing tomato farm in Vizcaino. She offers on site medical for free. Free on site day care, primary and middle schools. Her farm has received awards for how great they take care of their workers!

rts551 - 6-7-2016 at 11:55 AM

This article is all about and in support of a new union (2 others already exist) and therefor the article is somewhat slanted. While I agree, reforms in working conditions and pay are needed, I will wait to rally behind a much more factual analysis.

DENNIS - 6-7-2016 at 12:09 PM


It's going down.org is part of reddit.....a site promoting anarchy. not my choice of entertainment.

https://itsgoingdown.org/all-the-news-you-didnt-even-know-wa...

Cisco - 6-7-2016 at 01:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS  

It's going down.org is part of reddit.....a site promoting anarchy. not my choice of entertainment.

https://itsgoingdown.org/all-the-news-you-didnt-even-know-wa...


It was not posted for your entertainment Dennis.

Have you read the article? Is it a valid documentary in your estimation?

Try not to kill it off because of the messenger.

Cisco - 6-7-2016 at 01:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
How brutal - how awful.

And then we have Suzy who runs an amazing tomato farm in Vizcaino. She offers on site medical for free. Free on site day care, primary and middle schools. Her farm has received awards for how great they take care of their workers!


Blanca, if you are in touch with her could you vet this article please.

I know Suzy's operation is totally opposite of this article and she certainly would be the 'expert' opinion some of our members need to believe what is happening there.

Thanks

Cisco - 6-7-2016 at 02:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BAJA.DESERT.RAT  
i am very glad that this was brought to the forefront of the news for these workers.

when i passed through san quintin driving both ways to and from los barriles, i had no idea that they were treated so badly. when i went shopping at the stores in san quintin, i did see that they didn't have a whole lot of monies shopping at the markets there.

crossing bridges on my way to where i was going and back, i saw tarps covering bushes where i could see workers camping wherever they could.

i guess the company stores were as they were during the depression in the states as they charged whatever they could and the workers had no choice and they left after the crops were gathered with less than what they arrived with.

sad that people that work so hard are treated so badly.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT



Unfortunately the main stream media NOB will not touch this due to the content Rat.

This fly's right into the face of the oligarchs NOB
who do have a horse in this race (Eg: Driscoll y others) and reads like Steinbeck's "In Dubious Battle" of 80 years ago.

It had to be printed in an alternative press as U.S. news is so tightly controlled, they don't want to see this out as it will affect NOB.

Sort of like an NPR mind living in a FOX news world. Although NPR is totally controlled now as to what it can and cannot do.

Branding a news source without regard to validity of content (or
flat-out censoring) puts the information in a dark place that many readers go to due to their personal bias and then are operating without specific knowledge.

"i am very glad that this was brought to the forefront of the news for these workers."

Gracias Rat, I had not looked at it in that light. You brought an important reality of what these workers can and cannot use in their fight for a living wage and environment.

JoeJustJoe - 6-7-2016 at 02:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cisco  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
How brutal - how awful.

And then we have Suzy who runs an amazing tomato farm in Vizcaino. She offers on site medical for free. Free on site day care, primary and middle schools. Her farm has received awards for how great they take care of their workers!


Blanca, if you are in touch with her could you vet this article please.

I know Suzy's operation is totally opposite of this article and she certainly would be the 'expert' opinion some of our members need to believe what is happening there.

Thanks


Cisco you don't actually believe any of those indigenous workers are treated good on tomato farms in Vizcaino or any place else in Baja do you? Big deal providing education for the children, because it's the law in Mexico up to a certain age. At best it's usually window dressing that a few token farm workers are treated better than other places.

It really doesn't matter if your article has a union liberal bent on it because it's a given fact the farm workers in Mexico, and in most places in the world are badly exploited and given at best a slave wage, that the farm workers are lucky to go home with any money in their pocket after paying for rent and food at marked up prices at the company store.

There were a few major newspapers covering the strike in San Quintin, last year, and even the "LA Times" put out an Investigative four part series titled " Hardship on Mexico's farms, before the strike, that was a real eye opener:

http://graphics.latimes.com/product-of-mexico-camps/

We even have a few threads on "Baja Nomad" about the San Quintin stike, and there are always a few members who actually take big AG side, because of some ulterior motive like having ties to the growers, or sometimes they take Big Business AG side because they're ultra conservatives with a " I don't care attitude, although apathy and a "I don't care attitude" also extends to others who are not conservative and are just interested in cheap fruit and other foods.

Here is just one thread on "Baja Nomad' that talks about San Quintin and the farmers:

San Quintin quieting down?

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=78866

Here is an old article talking about Vizcaino valley field workers being exploited.

Vizcaíno Valley Field Workers are Exploited

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/ensign-hickman/2012/no...

DENNIS - 6-7-2016 at 04:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cisco  

Unfortunately the main stream media NOB will not touch this due to the content Rat.

This fly's right into the face of the oligarchs NOB
who do have a horse in this race (Eg: Driscoll y others) and reads like Steinbeck's "In Dubious Battle" of 80 years ago.

It had to be printed in an alternative press as U.S. news is so tightly controlled, they don't want to see this out as it will affect NOB.

Sort of like an NPR mind living in a FOX news world. Although NPR is totally controlled now as to what it can and cannot do.

Branding a news source without regard to validity of content (or
flat-out censoring) puts the information in a dark place that many readers go to due to their personal bias and then are operating without specific knowledge.

"i am very glad that this was brought to the forefront of the news for these workers."

Gracias Rat, I had not looked at it in that light. You brought an important reality of what these workers can and cannot use in their fight for a living wage and environment.



Pure, disingenuous bullcrap. The buyers do no more,or less, than the Mexican government permits. They, the gov. are in control of wages and well-being in the fields. they control the farm owners. Why blame the buyers?
If you want to kill a dangerous snake, you cut off its head. Not its tail.




[Edited on 6-7-2016 by DENNIS]

SFandH - 6-7-2016 at 05:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS  
They, the gov. are in control of wages and well-being in the fields. they control the farm owners. Why blame the buyers?


I would assume the farm owners and buyers are in control, they have the money. Government officials all over the world are bought off, some say especially in Mexico.

The workers are extremely underpaid according to Cisco's article. I'm curious about the living conditions of these workers. Clean water? Adequate nutrition? Electricity? Sanitation? Working every day should provide for these basic things.

Are children still working in the fields? They recently were and it was causing problems.


[Edited on 6-8-2016 by SFandH]

mtgoat666 - 6-7-2016 at 05:16 PM

Its the same story since the dawn of time: under capitalism, mans nature is such the bourgeoisie mercilessly exploit the proletariat, the farm owners mercilessly exploit the farm workers. Man is by nature selfish and cruel, change does not come from altruism of the ruling and owning class. The workers can only better their lot through organizing and/or revolting.

Buy union!

Feel the Bern!

SFandH - 6-7-2016 at 05:29 PM

It's in the news Cesar Chavez's wife died yesterday.

United Farm Workers website:

http://www.ufw.org/_page.php?menu=research&inc=history/0...

Russ - 6-7-2016 at 05:32 PM

I usually stay away from discussions like this but as with many worker problems the bottom line is that those elected officials that promise action to enforce the currant law .... don't. Dennis is correct! Look at the fisheries. Many laws are already on the books but someone has the power to stop funding enforcement or getting rich making sure there is no enforcement. Of course I like to see lasting changes but after 20+ years here it seems to always cycle back to the greedy power mongers.

DENNIS - 6-7-2016 at 05:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS  
They, the gov. are in control of wages and well-being in the fields. they control the farm owners. Why blame the buyers?


I would assume the farm owners and buyers are in control, they have the money. Government officials all over the world are bought off, some say especially in Mexico.

The workers are extremely underpaid according to Cisco's article. I'm curious about the living conditions of these workers. Clean water? Adequate nutrition? Electricity? Sanitation? Working every day should provide for these basic things.

Are children still working in the fields? They recently were and it was causing problems.


[Edited on 6-8-2016 by SFandH]


The government has power to regulate. US minimum wage is only one example of regulation.
Of course they're bought off. None the less, this whole thing is on them.
Their living conditions are deplorable. It can be witnessed right here in Maneadero. None of the amenities you mention.
Working should provide for a lot of things, in a perfect world.
Do children work the fields? Depends on how you define "children."

Bajahowodd - 6-9-2016 at 04:55 PM

As I posted way back, owing to NAFTA so many Mexican workers do not have to face the life threatening process of trying to cross the border to work in the fields NOB for minimum wage at best, without any benefits. So is poverty in Mexico for these field laborers any worse than poverty in the US?

I support the efforts of these people to obtain better conditions. But unless and until the big companies NOB and SOB feel some sort of pain, nothing will change.

I don't care if you shop at Stater Bros, Ralphs, Albertsons or any other major chain. Fact is that their buyers always look for the lowest prices.

I do not have an answer short of asking folks to boycott all produce with a product of Mexico on the label.

But that would just put so many poor people out of work.

See what I mean? No simple answer.

DENNIS - 6-9-2016 at 05:15 PM


There is a "simple" answer. Government gets out of growers pockets and mandates, for real, a living wage structure that is guaranteed for field hands, jorneleros.
Why would growers object? The consumer pays for everything....everything.
Raise the wages....raise the price to US importers who in turn raise the price to consumers who will pay whatever required to have the product.
Sales will drop somewhat, but so will the need for labor to supply the product. It balances.
Look at what happened with tobacco products.

mtgoat666 - 6-9-2016 at 06:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS  

There is a "simple" answer. Government gets out of growers pockets and mandates, for real, a living wage structure that is guaranteed for field hands, jorneleros.
Why would growers object? The consumer pays for everything....everything.
Raise the wages....raise the price to US importers who in turn raise the price to consumers who will pay whatever required to have the product.
Sales will drop somewhat, but so will the need for labor to supply the product. It balances.
Look at what happened with tobacco products.


In this modern world we have the means to provide a living wage for all. Not much excuse in a modern country to accept continued existence of poverty. The only thing stopping humanism is human greed.

JoeJustJoe - 6-10-2016 at 12:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  
As I posted way back, owing to NAFTA so many Mexican workers do not have to face the life threatening process of trying to cross the border to work in the fields NOB for minimum wage at best, without any benefits. So is poverty in Mexico for these field laborers any worse than poverty in the US?

I support the efforts of these people to obtain better conditions. But unless and until the big companies NOB and SOB feel some sort of pain, nothing will change.

I don't care if you shop at Stater Bros, Ralphs, Albertsons or any other major chain. Fact is that their buyers always look for the lowest prices.

I do not have an answer short of asking folks to boycott all produce with a product of Mexico on the label.

But that would just put so many poor people out of work.

See what I mean? No simple answer.


Bajahowodd, I think you have it backward, NAFTA didn't keep Mexicans from immigrating to the US, on the contrary NAFTA and the great Satan, the USA put millions of Mexican farmers out of work, because of heavily subsidized US corn and other staples poured into Mexico, leaving the Mexican farmer unable to make a living.

This in turn caused a few million Mexicans to immigrate into the US with or without papers, and the ones who didn't immigrate to the US turned to other lucrative farming like growing plants for the Mexican cartels. In the meantime prices for basic foods went up in Mexico, leaving most Mexicans in poverty, except the rich and powerful in Mexico that are mostly white-skinned Mexicans.

Instead of trying to blame only Mexican politicians who are merely puppet for big business in Mexico. US politicians are also puppets for big business in the US, but accept bribes legally in the form of political contributions, and Mexican politicians get their palms greased with illegal bribes.

So I believe Big business in the US like, Walmart, Stater Bros, Kroger, Whole foods, etc.......are as guilty as big agribusinesses like Driscoll, based in California, but has contracts with well connected Mexican growers like BerryMex in places like San Quintin, Mexico. All these companies have government officials from both side of the border pulling strings for them.

Since agriculture is a 7 billion dollar or more industry in Baja, and the vast majority of products over 90% coming into the USA. Many believe US Big Business has at the very least a social responsibility to demand employees working for the growers in Mexico are treated fairly and make a livable wage.

I'm not sure if a boycott will work, because buyers will still go to the supermarket, and will ignore the boycott. However, if the farm employees go on strike, they could really hurt the growers, but most would have to participate.

Now a revolution in Mexico might just work in Mexico, and even here in the USA, the people are getting relentless and want change.



Bajahowodd - 6-10-2016 at 04:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  
As I posted way back, owing to NAFTA so many Mexican workers do not have to face the life threatening process of trying to cross the border to work in the fields NOB for minimum wage at best, without any benefits. So is poverty in Mexico for these field laborers any worse than poverty in the US?

I support the efforts of these people to obtain better conditions. But unless and until the big companies NOB and SOB feel some sort of pain, nothing will change.

I don't care if you shop at Stater Bros, Ralphs, Albertsons or any other major chain. Fact is that their buyers always look for the lowest prices.

I do not have an answer short of asking folks to boycott all produce with a product of Mexico on the label.

But that would just put so many poor people out of work.

See what I mean? No simple answer.


Bajahowodd, I think you have it backward, NAFTA didn't keep Mexicans from immigrating to the US, on the contrary NAFTA and the great Satan, the USA put millions of Mexican farmers out of work, because of heavily subsidized US corn and other staples poured into Mexico, leaving the Mexican farmer unable to make a living.

This in turn caused a few million Mexicans to immigrate into the US with or without papers, and the ones who didn't immigrate to the US turned to other lucrative farming like growing plants for the Mexican cartels. In the meantime prices for basic foods went up in Mexico, leaving most Mexicans in poverty, except the rich and powerful in Mexico that are mostly white-skinned Mexicans.

Instead of trying to blame only Mexican politicians who are merely puppet for big business in Mexico. US politicians are also puppets for big business in the US, but accept bribes legally in the form of political contributions, and Mexican politicians get their palms greased with illegal bribes.

So I believe Big business in the US like, Walmart, Stater Bros, Kroger, Whole foods, etc.......are as guilty as big agribusinesses like Driscoll, based in California, but has contracts with well connected Mexican growers like BerryMex in places like San Quintin, Mexico. All these companies have government officials from both side of the border pulling strings for them.

Since agriculture is a 7 billion dollar or more industry in Baja, and the vast majority of products over 90% coming into the USA. Many believe US Big Business has at the very least a social responsibility to demand employees working for the growers in Mexico are treated fairly and make a livable wage.

I'm not sure if a boycott will work, because buyers will still go to the supermarket, and will ignore the boycott. However, if the farm employees go on strike, they could really hurt the growers, but most would have to participate.

Now a revolution in Mexico might just work in Mexico, and even here in the USA, the people are getting relentless and want change.




Very interesting, but I'm not certain that I can agree with you on much of what you stated.

BigBearRider - 9-19-2016 at 09:14 PM

There is a movie on Netflix called "Food Chains" that explores a similar dynamic in the U.S. There, the blame is put at the feet of Wal-Mart, Publix, and similar super markets.