BajaNomad

Abandoned Stone Building & Adobe near San Miguel?

salttram - 6-19-2016 at 12:01 PM

OK, I think I've done my due diligence and scoured the web and forums here, and my extensive Baja library, and still am no closer to finding any historical information on this.

On my trips toward Los Corrales and Bahia San Juan Bautista on the Gulf coast from El Barril, I always stop at the remains of what was once an ambitious ranch homestead very near Rancho San Miguel (now abandoned). I've posted some pics on Google Earth/Panoramio which I will include here. There is antique furniture inside the stone building, and the overall quality of the building is impressive, even retaining its stained glass unbroken. Next to it is a melted adobe. On the level ground some acres around the site is an extensive stone-lined system of aqueducts that must add up to a mile or more. This system terminates into a large cement cistern dated IIRC, 1910. There are two rock walls on the hillside above the site which must have required considerable effort to construct.

I tried to reach the area this last December, but the road is completely obliterated from the junction to Rancho Santa Barbara. I've seen this road-condition written-up here on the various 'No Wimps Trail' threads.

If anyone here knows anything more about the site, I would love to know more about it, as it is now accessible only on foot (or broken suspension components). If I missed a previous post about it, I bow my head in shame . . .

81914450.jpg - 124kB81914609.jpg - 104kB81915560.jpg - 140kB

Barry A. - 6-19-2016 at 12:19 PM

Yes, it is certainly impressive! We spent several days there in 1999 in Feb. and inspected the site for a full day. A lot of work and building went on there, as you pics indicate, plus lots of small rock living quarters. The folks at Rancho San Miguel told us that it was a subsidized Ajido project, but I don't remember when they said it was active. Several storms and subsequent flooding of that huge drainage doomed the irrigation system from the start, we were thinking, and the evidence is very strong that the project's irrigation infrastructure was largely destroyed by floods over the years, probably resulting in it's failure. It a fascinating place, tho, and we really enjoyed our week stay in that area poking around, but we did not get down to Los Corrales as the roads were just too soft and spooky for the 2 of us in 2 vehicles----mine a big camper 4x4, and my friends a little Isuzu Trooper 4x4. In other words, we chickened-out. We did spend a couple of days out on the cobble beach opposite and beyond the Eijido site. I am truly disappointed that the road is washed out as that is beautiful and wild country down there, and well worth exploring.

salttram - 6-19-2016 at 01:13 PM

Thanks . . . a little more than I knew before! I guess some Ejido projects are more aesthetic than others . . . The first time I was there, 2011, R.San Miguel was occupied, but as I speak so little Spanish, I never inquired.

I chickened-out the first time too . . . we got almost to the 28th parallel on the bay, trying to get through to San Ignacio, but I knew if we didn't make it, we would have run out of gas, so we turned around. Plus, that must be one of the most remote places I've ever been. Any small issue could be a disaster.

I imagine someone will either reopen the road, or reroute it to the north, as it looks like some of that work has already been done.

Barry A. - 6-19-2016 at 02:00 PM

When we were in that area in 1999 the "road" was almost entirely in the La Fortuna Canyon wash-bottom down to Rancho San Miguel, as the BAJA ALMANAC indicates, and was in excellent shape, tho just a truck-trail thru the boulders and Palo Blanco trees. Saltram, you got much further south than we did-------we got to only about 5 miles southeast of Rancho San Miguel when the trail we were following got really marginal, and the vaqueros were very dubious about us getting thru with the 4x4 Ford camper vehicle even with big-tires and special suspension, etc. , and I came to agree with them----if we broke down or got stuck we would have been in a very bad way, and we had already had a very close call in the mudflats of Boca Grande north of the little fishing village of San Rafael where I manged to get the big camper truck stuck on the dry-looking tidal-flat pretty badly for several hours. We were gun-shy from THAT experience.

Fernweh - 6-19-2016 at 07:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by salttram  
Thanks . . . a little more than I knew before! I guess some Ejido projects are more aesthetic than others . . . The first time I was there, 2011, R.San Miguel was occupied, but as I speak so little Spanish, I never inquired.

I chickened-out the first time too . . . we got almost to the 28th parallel on the bay, trying to get through to San Ignacio, but I knew if we didn't make it, we would have run out of gas, so we turned around. Plus, that must be one of the most remote places I've ever been. Any small issue could be a disaster.

I imagine someone will either reopen the road, or reroute it to the north, as it looks like some of that work has already been done.


I do believe, this nice building existed long before the ejidos were established.
I was told, it was a large cattle ranch operation, and the cattle was shipped via boats to Santa Rosalia.
The French mining company Boleo, operated many large ranches in the Tres Vigines Volcano area, to supply food for the many mine workers in Santa Rosalio.
Also, they supposedly shipped cattle/meat to Europe as well.......

BTW I mastered the "no wimp" trail in both directions just by myself, with my Adventurewagen, before the last storms took out that road to San Miguel.
During X-mas of 2012, my friend Harald (4x4abc) and I , drove the La Fortuna Canyon Trail again, after it was washed out completely many years ago.
It was a great adventure with his FJ40, still finding some sections of the old trail.
https://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Events/La-Fortuna/i-Jqn8t...

Barry A. - 6-19-2016 at 08:01 PM

Outstanding, Fernweh! I remember your thread on this from before. I was impressed, and completely amazed on what you accomplished, and still am.
Such beautiful country down in that area.

TMW - 6-20-2016 at 09:13 AM

Salttram there are two ranches in the area that may have info. After leaving El Barril for the No Wimp Trail you pass thru a gate at Rancho La Ilusion. The owner speaks good English and he might have knowledge of San Miguel.

The road to Rancho Santa Barbara is open at least to Rancho Crestones. We met with the lady that lives there this past Jan. She said Rancho Santa Barbara is abandoned. I don't know how long her and her husband have lived there or if they are related to people that use to live at Santa Barbara. She spoke only Spanish. I did a trip report and posted it here.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=81801

While the No Wimp Trail was very badly damaged in 2014 at both ends 4x4abc (Harald) drove it in March of last year in his G-Wagen along with two other vehicles. His report is here.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=77320&pag...

salttram - 6-20-2016 at 01:10 PM

Thanks, it's good to know someone at R.Illusion speaks English. I'd like to make it all the way through someday! It really is one of the best parts of Baja.

We checked out Timbabiche 2-years ago but wished we had more time to explore around there, another fantastic area. Maybe try for Dolores del Sur.

4x4abc - 6-20-2016 at 03:25 PM

the topo map has the house as La Casona

I have been looking for information for a long time
haven't found anything

the style of the house contradicts El Boleo involvement
they built everything in wood and in French colonial

Karl and I found one in the Santa Ana region a while ago

if there is any Boleo involvement, the museum in Santa Rosalia might have information

mtgoat666 - 6-20-2016 at 05:41 PM

The "big house"?

The owner of Casa leree collects local history, try her?

There is a history museum/society museum in Ensenada, try asking them?

Or ask the locals, they will know.

:light:
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
the topo map has the house as La Casona

I have been looking for information for a long time
haven't found anything

the style of the house contradicts El Boleo involvement
they built everything in wood and in French colonial

Karl and I found one in the Santa Ana region a while ago

if there is any Boleo involvement, the museum in Santa Rosalia might have information

mtgoat666 - 6-21-2016 at 09:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
The "big house"?

The owner of Casa leree collects local history, try her?

There is a history museum/society museum in Ensenada, try asking them?

Or ask the locals, they will know.

:light:


Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
the topo map has the house as La Casona

I have been looking for information for a long time
haven't found anything

the style of the house contradicts El Boleo involvement
they built everything in wood and in French colonial

Karl and I found one in the Santa Ana region a while ago

if there is any Boleo involvement, the museum in Santa Rosalia might have information


Sadly, many "locals" do not know. They came to the peninsula to make a living off the land... and old buildings long abandoned when they arrived and have no meaning to most, it has seemed. They are historic treasures to only a few who see the value in preserving these ruins so that future generations can appreciate the struggles of the pioneers or try to figure out the motivation to come to Baja.


Dk, dont know where you form such opinions. I find that many locals know the local history.

rts551 - 6-21-2016 at 10:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
The "big house"?

The owner of Casa leree collects local history, try her?

There is a history museum/society museum in Ensenada, try asking them?

Or ask the locals, they will know.

:light:


Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
the topo map has the house as La Casona

I have been looking for information for a long time
haven't found anything

the style of the house contradicts El Boleo involvement
they built everything in wood and in French colonial

Karl and I found one in the Santa Ana region a while ago

if there is any Boleo involvement, the museum in Santa Rosalia might have information


Sadly, many "locals" do not know. They came to the peninsula to make a living off the land... and old buildings long abandoned when they arrived and have no meaning to most, it has seemed. They are historic treasures to only a few who see the value in preserving these ruins so that future generations can appreciate the struggles of the pioneers or try to figure out the motivation to come to Baja.


David, What BS. The people who write accurately about the history of an area usually talk to long time locals. Seems your absence from Baja has distorted your view of its people. If this is how you treat history, it makes your writings highly suspect.

I would say get a job, but I thought you had one.

rts551 - 6-21-2016 at 10:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Ralph, I am interested in facts without any politics.
People who were there when the events occurred are the ones who can give the most data. Then research comes next. Some rancher (who no doubt loves his land and his country) who only knows first hand what he has seen can only relate what was told to him from his memory or what he read, somewhere.

Case in point: Choral Pepper and Murl Emery each wrote books about Baja exploring and they both came by helicopter to the village of San Francisco de la Sierra in the early 1960s (as the first outsiders the village had ever seen). They were told the old walls there were the remains of Mission Dolores del Norte, so that got published in their books.

Mexico's INAH has labeled the San Pablo visita ruins (in the canyon below San Francisco de la Sierra/ east of Vizcaino) as "Misión Dolores del Norte"...

Are both right?
No, neither are right. Dolores del Norte only really existed on paper (maps and lists of the mid-1700s).

The rest of (real) story is in my book... but has been posted many times here on Nomad, for free.


They were doing real research...as happens with history there was a later update. Real historians don't always get it right all the time. Armchair historians seldom get it right the first time....sometimes never.

What politics? and what happened to your job?

[Edited on 6-21-2016 by rts551]

rts551 - 6-21-2016 at 11:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
You use political beliefs as a reason for many of your negative posts. No problem, it's what you do. I am able to separate politics from friendships and don't hold the views by some (that government should run our lives and that we are too stupid to know the best way to live for our families) against being civil with them. I have many friends who probably vote the way you do, and we are nice to each other.

My job (irrigation) is the same I have had for 36 years. The economy is still devastated by the non-growth the past 8 years, no jobs yet this week. So, I am doing more writing/ researching/ etc. from home.


David Pls. Show me where a brought politics into it. Show me. Your post illustrates you can not separate your politics from your postings.

I thought you had a new job...5 days a week 8 hours a day. little late in your life but I was happy for you. What happened? or was I mistaken.

mtgoat666 - 6-21-2016 at 11:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
At least that's what they tell you, eh?

If they were not there in 1890 (or pick a date) then their only source is either hearsay from others or made up themselves. It very well could be from a poorly researched book of 'history' as so many published have been.

My first source is to read history as it was written by people who were there when the events happened, then next by the closest to the time and so on. Modern writers (English and Spanish language) make mistakes, (including me)... but when the mistake is discovered, let's correct it!

It's all about getting to the truth... and we hope the truth is out there!



[Edited on 6-21-2016 by David K]


You are reAding original spanish re missions? i doubt your reading comprehension.

Re local history in the boonies,... Many of the local ranches have been in same family for generations, the locals know more than your gringo heros that drove by in 1949.

Bajaboy - 6-21-2016 at 03:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
You use political beliefs as a reason for many of your negative posts. No problem, it's what you do. I am able to separate politics from friendships and don't hold the views by some (that government should run our lives and that we are too stupid to know the best way to live for our families) against being civil with them. I have many friends who probably vote the way you do, and we are nice to each other.

My job (irrigation) is the same I have had for 36 years. The economy is still devastated by the non-growth the past 8 years, no jobs yet this week. So, I am doing more writing/ researching/ etc. from home.


You're funny David:lol: Plenty of jobs out there...if you're willing to work.

chuckie - 6-21-2016 at 03:45 PM

That's the truth...Change with the times....

willardguy - 6-21-2016 at 05:46 PM

:lol: just can't help himself :no:

chuckie - 6-21-2016 at 05:50 PM

Uh DK? What we are talking about here is getting off your ass and doing something about it. If your job goes away, the bills still have to be paid, the world moves on...Do something else..Whining about the bad people who you blame for it, don't git er dun....

chuckie - 6-21-2016 at 05:53 PM

Back to the subject...My daughter and I were in there back in the late 70's she says...She may have some pics...I'll be at her place 4th of July and if we find them..yall will be the first to know...

rts551 - 6-21-2016 at 06:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
You use political beliefs as a reason for many of your negative posts. No problem, it's what you do. I am able to separate politics from friendships and don't hold the views by some (that government should run our lives and that we are too stupid to know the best way to live for our families) against being civil with them. I have many friends who probably vote the way you do, and we are nice to each other.

My job (irrigation) is the same I have had for 36 years. The economy is still devastated by the non-growth the past 8 years, no jobs yet this week. So, I am doing more writing/ researching/ etc. from home.


You're funny David:lol: Plenty of jobs out there...if you're willing to work.


Drinking the Kool-aid or not aware of the non-government world?

Thanks to a lapdog media, many may not be aware that we are in:

The worst economy in generations with one in five out of work, more on part-time instead of full-time(thanks Obamacare), more adults living at their parents' homes, more on food stamps and other assistance, the most years with under 3% growth under this president as any other before him... and the most DEBT in this president's term than all the previous presidents COMBINED... that's since George Washington.


Politics again David? And where do you get your data if its not from the media? Our economy is doing better after the recession that was caused by the republicans. There are job opportunities out there if you want one. Our debt is high because of the wars that were started under a republican misinformed (or misguided) president. Non of the job market data has anything to do with health care unless of course you are a Trump supporter and need to make up some numbers.

AGAIN...what happened to the job you had. Not the Trump "your fired"?

willardguy - 6-21-2016 at 06:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I have new jobs all the time... I had one today in Carlsbad replacing two valves. I am working, it is just at 1/3 the amount of work as it was under Republican leadership even after we were attacked with more killed than at Peral Harbor... and civilians at work. Why is it Democrats don't care about security and justice to stop these killings of civilians. 50 dead in Orlando from the gun of a registered Democrat/ Hillary supporter. The democrats are deflecting the truth and blaming Republicans and gun ownership. That is pathetic.

{note to salttram: I will delete these off topic replies soon, sorry for the behavior of some here who like to silence ideas that don't fit their agenda... I challenge the others to also delete their drama}


just to save this to the archives.....;)





[Edited on 6-22-2016 by willardguy]

mtgoat666 - 6-21-2016 at 06:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  

If you agree that they are trying to wreck the American economy to maintain a power grip, then stand with me when the BS is posted.


Where do you right wingnuts get the idea that liberals are deliberately trying to wreck

chuckie - 6-21-2016 at 06:31 PM

Everyone ELSE is to blame for DK's Woes..

mtgoat666 - 6-21-2016 at 06:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Everyone ELSE is to blame for DK's Woes..


Not everyone. Just liberals.

rts551 - 6-21-2016 at 07:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I have new jobs all the time... I had one today in Carlsbad replacing two valves. I am working, it is just at 1/3 the amount of work as it was under Republican leadership



did it ever enter your mind that the reluctance of spending money has something to do with market crash in 07/08? People losing their homes and stuff? Caused by the gambling bankers? They must all be registered Democrats. I bet either Hilary or Obama are behind that. Just to make you work less. The government loves that, because then they have less work collecting taxes.



David had a job that paid more than just under the table wages....He told us a couple of months ago that was the reason he could not post as often (cheer). He could have put some more money in the economy as well as build up a little for retirement (better late than never). I suspect his boss was a democrat.

Salttram, what were you thinking?

AKgringo - 6-21-2016 at 07:55 PM

This forum is supposed to be about Baja, but here we are, arguing politics!

What's that....all you wanted was information about some remote Baja buildings?

I apologize, and hope some one is still willing to add any useful info to this out of control thread.

Bajaboy - 6-21-2016 at 08:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
The new democrat majority elected in 2006 passed the Chris Dodd/Barney Frank's bill that forced banks to lend to otherwise unqualified people. The idea that everyone had some kind of right to own a house was an unmitigated disaster. That my friends began the financial mess.


So did the bankers cause it or the government? I think the banks handed out the money to all those self employed people who swore they were making a lot of money....wink, wink.

David, I referred work your way and you turned it down saying it wasn't worth your time. Find a Home Depot and start hustling amigo.

Pacifico - 6-21-2016 at 08:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
This forum is supposed to be about Baja, but here we are, arguing politics!

What's that....all you wanted was information about some remote Baja buildings?

I apologize, and hope some one is still willing to add any useful info to this out of control thread.


Thank you, AKgringo!

This thread got ruined by all the BS posted here.... way to go guys. I guess you guys can't help yourselves. This is exactly what is ruining this site! :mad::fire:

What? Oh, it's the other guys fault? BS!

Bajaboy - 6-21-2016 at 10:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
The new democrat majority elected in 2006 passed the Chris Dodd/Barney Frank's bill that forced banks to lend to otherwise unqualified people. The idea that everyone had some kind of right to own a house was an unmitigated disaster. That my friends began the financial mess.


So did the bankers cause it or the government? I think the banks handed out the money to all those self employed people who swore they were making a lot of money....wink, wink.

David, I referred work your way and you turned it down saying it wasn't worth your time. Find a Home Depot and start hustling amigo.


Please don't make up bs, we have been friends. You had a referral (thank you) that was outside my area of coverage and I politely thanked you but declined as the cost for the hours of drive time added to the bid would not be competitive. I told you where to get a referal for that area (Ewing), as well. I always try to help, both here on Nomad or for irrigation.


David, no bs here. I was really at a loss when you lectured me about sending business your way that was "out of your range." I was taught to never turn down a job as it might lead to something bigger. No worries if we see things differently. Bottom line is beggars can't be choosers, right?!

Hope you get down to Baja soon!

chuckie - 6-23-2016 at 05:08 AM

DK? If you are so ashamed of what you post that you have to remove it, why do you post this crap in the first place????

David K - 6-23-2016 at 07:27 AM

Chuckie, if you saw it all, then you would know that I was only defending myself and once I had, I removed my post so to NOT distract any further from the thread. Those who felt a need to say unkind or negative things could just as easily delete there's (as I suggested) so as to clean up the thread that turned into a DK attack, have not. So, what is important to them (and you)? To tear at my flesh or to talk about Baja people and places? Your criticism is better directed at Mt.Goat, RTS, Bajaboy, etc. who would be happy to only see PC approved ideas/opinions rather than the documented history. If another point of view is shared here, then hell breaks loose and we are all the poorer for it. So much for acceptance of other ideas by the left, eh?

chuckie - 6-24-2016 at 07:35 AM

Thank you for your input, DK...

David K - 6-24-2016 at 08:29 AM

You are most welcome chuckie, have a great weekend!

woody with a view - 6-24-2016 at 10:21 AM

Group hug!

rts551 - 6-24-2016 at 10:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
Group hug!


[img][/img]

chuckie - 6-24-2016 at 10:51 AM

Group fart!

fishbuck - 6-24-2016 at 12:11 PM

Hi all. I find David's statement about things in Baja being lost to history to be partly true. San Quintin area is a good example.
I also find it somewhat baffling that soo many nomads pile on to insult and criticize David K.
He tries to provide info to people here. And sometimes he includes some insight. Why attack him for that. I appreciare his candor and those of the others who contribute.
I now live in Everett WA and the library here is full of historical info. I can tell you the name of the very 1st settler and the natives of that time.
In contrast. I know personally the person who is the direct hier to a family that owned the entire San Quintin valley and still own a sizeable chunk.
Yet the history of the area is very vague and hard to find.
The locals don't care. Most of them anyway. You can't eat history.

DENNIS - 6-24-2016 at 12:30 PM



Totally agree. Give'em hell, Mikey.

fishbuck - 6-24-2016 at 12:31 PM

Thanks Denny!

chuckie - 6-24-2016 at 12:37 PM

Thank you for your input Fishbuck....Lotta good cowboys come out of Alberta!

rts551 - 6-24-2016 at 01:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
Hi all. I find David's statement about things in Baja being lost to history to be partly true. San Quintin area is a good example.
I also find it somewhat baffling that soo many nomads pile on to insult and criticize David K.
He tries to provide info to people here. And sometimes he includes some insight. Why attack him for that. I appreciare his candor and those of the others who contribute.
I now live in Everett WA and the library here is full of historical info. I can tell you the name of the very 1st settler and the natives of that time.
In contrast. I know personally the person who is the direct hier to a family that owned the entire San Quintin valley and still own a sizeable chunk.
Yet the history of the area is very vague and hard to find.
The locals don't care. Most of them anyway. You can't eat history.


Visit the museum out next to the restaurant Old Mill.

http://baja.com/san-quintin/san-quintin-museum-an-interestin...


[Edited on 6-24-2016 by rts551]

Not a problem . . .

salttram - 6-28-2016 at 12:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
This forum is supposed to be about Baja, but here we are, arguing politics!

What's that....all you wanted was information about some remote Baja buildings?

I apologize, and hope some one is still willing to add any useful info to this out of control thread.


Well it sure won't be the first thread that went wildly off-topic . . . and it won't be the last (at least here)! ;)

Thanks to all the repliers, especially those that had some new info to offer. Feel free to update if you find out anything more. I have some more detailed pics on another harddrive I need to resurrect. The inscription on the cistern had some names IIRC.

It's such a great place, and for all those lucky enough to have camped on the beach near there, it may be a while before we can drive there again!

Although I personally am pretty much diametrically opposed to many of David K's political and societal views, he has been very generous with me in providing detailed ECR maps and was an excellent host at his Viva Baja events years ago. He seems to be a genuinely nice person . . . and our views are only as good as our source (hopefully SOURCES) of information.

I've found that just because I like Baja exploration, offroading, and photography, I won't necessarily find common cause with everyone who shares these passions . . . in fact, I rarely do!

David K - 6-28-2016 at 01:49 PM

Have we met at a Viva Baja event or other place?

salttram - 6-28-2016 at 02:20 PM

Yes David, Annie and I attended two of your Viva Baja events some years ago . . . and we once met again at Kim's place in El Rosario when you happened by. That was several years ago too . . . how time flies!

David K - 6-28-2016 at 05:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by salttram  
Yes David, Annie and I attended two of your Viva Baja events some years ago . . . and we once met again at Kim's place in El Rosario when you happened by. That was several years ago too . . . how time flies!


Wonderful... yes I remember all three times! Many are still here but don't post as much as in the past.
Oh great that you are here on Nomad sharing the adventure side of Baja!!!
Did you ever get around to hiking El Camino Real?



Viva Baja #4 in 2003.



Viva Baja #3 in 2002.

fishbuck - 6-28-2016 at 11:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
Hi all. I find David's statement about things in Baja being lost to history to be partly true. San Quintin area is a good example.
I also find it somewhat baffling that soo many nomads pile on to insult and criticize David K.
He tries to provide info to people here. And sometimes he includes some insight. Why attack him for that. I appreciare his candor and those of the others who contribute.
I now live in Everett WA and the library here is full of historical info. I can tell you the name of the very 1st settler and the natives of that time.
In contrast. I know personally the person who is the direct hier to a family that owned the entire San Quintin valley and still own a sizeable chunk.
Yet the history of the area is very vague and hard to find.
The locals don't care. Most of them anyway. You can't eat history.


Visit the museum out next to the restaurant Old Mill.

http://baja.com/san-quintin/san-quintin-museum-an-interestin...


[Edited on 6-24-2016 by rts551]


Thank you. I was unaware that a museum was opened. Haven't been to the old mill area since 2011.
A side note. The heir's family of which I mentioned sold the Los Pinos people their land. I think his grandfather did. The grandfather owed the entire valley at 1 time.

[Edited on 6-29-2016 by fishbuck]

rts551 - 6-29-2016 at 07:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
Hi all. I find David's statement about things in Baja being lost to history to be partly true. San Quintin area is a good example.
I also find it somewhat baffling that soo many nomads pile on to insult and criticize David K.
He tries to provide info to people here. And sometimes he includes some insight. Why attack him for that. I appreciare his candor and those of the others who contribute.
I now live in Everett WA and the library here is full of historical info. I can tell you the name of the very 1st settler and the natives of that time.
In contrast. I know personally the person who is the direct hier to a family that owned the entire San Quintin valley and still own a sizeable chunk.
Yet the history of the area is very vague and hard to find.
The locals don't care. Most of them anyway. You can't eat history.


Visit the museum out next to the restaurant Old Mill.

http://baja.com/san-quintin/san-quintin-museum-an-interestin...


[Edited on 6-24-2016 by rts551]


Thank you. I was unaware that a museum was opened. Haven't been to the old mill area since 2011.
A side note. The heir's family of which I mentioned sold the Los Pinos people their land. I think his grandfather did. The grandfather owed the entire valley at 1 time.

[Edited on 6-29-2016 by fishbuck]


You will find quiet a bit of early valley history there including a pre-Los Pinos plot map that I donated. (it shows close to Santa Maria a spring fed fresh water lake that is long gone). The old timers remember it as a swimming hole.

BajaMama - 6-29-2016 at 08:36 AM

Does anyone have the GPS coordinates for this area?

TMW - 6-29-2016 at 08:42 AM

Are you talking about GPS for the stone buildings or the Old Mil?

fishbuck - 6-29-2016 at 11:05 AM

"You will find quiet a bit of early valley history there including a pre-Los Pinos plot map that I donated. (it shows close to Santa Maria a spring fed fresh water lake that is long gone). The old timers remember it as old swimming hole."

I think I have seen that map. Or a similar one. And that water hole may still be there in a form. I noticed it when looking behind the Santa Maria Hotel. It's sort of a canal that runs through Los Pinos and a retaining pond.

David K - 6-29-2016 at 04:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
Hi all. I find David's statement about things in Baja being lost to history to be partly true. San Quintin area is a good example.
I also find it somewhat baffling that soo many nomads pile on to insult and criticize David K.
He tries to provide info to people here. And sometimes he includes some insight. Why attack him for that. I appreciare his candor and those of the others who contribute.
I now live in Everett WA and the library here is full of historical info. I can tell you the name of the very 1st settler and the natives of that time.
In contrast. I know personally the person who is the direct hier to a family that owned the entire San Quintin valley and still own a sizeable chunk.
Yet the history of the area is very vague and hard to find.
The locals don't care. Most of them anyway. You can't eat history.


Visit the museum out next to the restaurant Old Mill.

http://baja.com/san-quintin/san-quintin-museum-an-interestin...


[Edited on 6-24-2016 by rts551]


Thank you. I was unaware that a museum was opened. Haven't been to the old mill area since 2011.
A side note. The heir's family of which I mentioned sold the Los Pinos people their land. I think his grandfather did. The grandfather owed the entire valley at 1 time.

[Edited on 6-29-2016 by fishbuck]


Does the name Rafael Orendien or the family name (also spelled) Orendein sound familiar?

In The 1969 Airports of Baja, Arnold Senterfitt writes that family was granted all of the San Quintin Valley, and the area near Cielito Lindo and the El Presidente (now Misión Santa María) Hotel was the last slice of land owned by the Orendein Family and Rafael has a hotel under construction on it (1969). This was on the airport runway named Playa de Oro, just south of the Cielito Lindo/ Rancho de la Mañana runway.

4x4abc - 6-29-2016 at 05:30 PM

Rafael Orendain

http://www.ensenada.net/historia/vallesq-2.php

David K - 6-29-2016 at 05:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
Rafael Orendain

http://www.ensenada.net/historia/vallesq-2.php


Thanks Harald...

Here's the English of the part that involves Rafael Orendain:

On March 12, 1947 Lic. Miguel Aleman gives the family of Rafael Orendain 130,000 hectares covering the Valle de San Quintin and the old ranch Santo Domingo, this was the affectation of properties of this family in the state of Jalisco .

1st. December 1974 Luis Echeverría opens the road transpeninsular Benito Juarez coming to change the future of the entire peninsula.

fishbuck - 6-29-2016 at 05:34 PM

Yep

4x4abc - 6-29-2016 at 06:37 PM

more here:
http://www.elvigia.net/el-valle/2014/1/19/repatriados-147435...

fishbuck - 6-29-2016 at 06:53 PM

Awesome. Seems as though by default BajaNomad is the "library" of alot of Baja history.
Sorrry I sort of hijacked the thread and turned it toward San Quintin.
We'll figure out those San Miguel buildings eventually. Does San Miguel have a museum?

4x4abc - 6-29-2016 at 07:56 PM

no museum for San Miguel

the amount of work and the accuracy indicated Mina el Boleo
since none of the locals had the entrepreneurial spirit to produce enough food for the mine workers in Santa Rosalia, the mine operators eventually started producing food after shipping it in from mainland for a long time.

I know of:
Las Lagunas close to Santa Ana
27°38'40.76"N, 112°39'11.95"W
San Marcos Tierra and San Bruno Tierra
27° 6'2.01"N, 112° 3'25.43"W
San Bruno
27° 9'33.70"N, 112° 9'48.69"W
El Rincon
27° 6'58.00"N, 112° 4'23.31"W
El Mezquital
27° 5'53.70"N, 112° 4'10.00"W
El Caracol
27°41'37.07"N, 112°42'53.06"W

the way the pilas and water canals are constructed points to European engineering, the buildings are wooden and the same style as in Santa Rosalia

I'll look for some pics

4x4abc - 6-29-2016 at 08:45 PM

unedited - no captions (yet):
https://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Events/Las-Lagunas-y-El-C...

salttram - 6-30-2016 at 05:31 AM

Well now I'm just going to HAVE to check out El Caracol . . . thanks Harald, more fresh meat . . .

[Edited on 6-30-2016 by salttram]

BajaMama - 6-30-2016 at 06:58 AM

I meant for the San Miguel buildings - I would be goofy if I couldn't find the old Mill! Thanks for the coordinates for the other places.

TMW - 6-30-2016 at 09:19 AM

The San Miguel stone building is at 28-05.690x112-50.135

David K - 6-30-2016 at 09:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
The San Miguel stone building is at 28-05.690x112-50.135






BajaMama - 6-30-2016 at 12:30 PM

Thank you!

salttram - 6-30-2016 at 02:26 PM

On Google Earth, you can see a whole lot of the irrigation setup they had.

fishbuck - 5-25-2019 at 09:39 AM

I am sorry you aren't getting work Dave. I tried working hardscape for a while in south county.
My best Air Force, motocross, beach, and flying buddy has that bisiness.
I can't hussle work like he can. Everyday.
But he gets more girls than I do too.

Anyway, I am glad to have your help on the research.
I love these "old Baja" stories...
Thanks...



salttram - 5-25-2019 at 10:35 AM

Great . . . I get a notification on this thread thinking there's some germaine info coming in and I get this crap.

David K - 5-25-2019 at 10:53 AM

See the other post from 4x4abc as that is what made your thread fresh by fishbuck's reply.