BajaNomad - Tankless water heater

Tankless water heater

larryC - 12-3-2016 at 07:58 AM

My 10 gallon water heater started leaking so I need to replace it. I am probably going to get a tank-less. Any recommendations from anyone using one themselves. I live alone so don't need too many liters per minute, but I don't want to go the minimum so I am thinking of one capable of 10 to 12 liters per minute. My supply pump is rated 12 lpm.

bajaguy - 12-3-2016 at 08:34 AM

Constant water pressure and constant gas flow....usually a 1/2" gas line won't work

El Jefe - 12-3-2016 at 08:41 AM

I vote against. We put them in our house when we built. Could never get them to work with the pump system. Could never figure out if it was a water pressure or gas issue. If you don't mind it shutting off in the middle of your shower you will be fine. We replaced ours with tanks (2).

A 20 gallon tank heater is a simple device that will not fail you for a long time.

pacificobob - 12-3-2016 at 08:48 AM

we have 2 tankless units. both are operating on a long run of 1/2" copper pipe. one unit is a 30 y/o paloma, the other a rheem locally purchased. nice to have unlimited hot water. as for water pressure ours ranges from 20-50psi as regulated by the switch on the pump. most units i have used require a drop of at least 3psi when the h/w valve is moved to the open position in order to open the gas valve and light the burner. in theory, a head of 7 feet could yield that 3psi and operate the pressure switch, if a gravity as the only pressure system was used. good luck with the project.

willardguy - 12-3-2016 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by El Jefe

I vote against. We put them in our house when we built. Could never get them to work with the pump system. Could never figure out if it was a water pressure or gas issue. If you don't mind it shutting off in the middle of your shower you will be fine. We replaced ours with tanks (2).

A 20 gallon tank heater is a simple device that will not fail you for a long time.

could't agree more....could never dial in the one in gonzaga bay and the one in rosarito lasted less than a year before it sprung a leak....lovin the tank heaters :yes:

Udo - 12-3-2016 at 09:42 AM

I had mine for about 3 months. Problem was the hot water never stayed on for more than a minute. When the pressure dropped so did the hot water.

Hook - 12-3-2016 at 09:57 AM

I am a fan of ours; it has cut down our propane consumption by 50%, at least. And we had a fiberglass blanket on our old-style, 30 gallon tank.

They can be temperamental if you have pressure issues. We keep our pressurized system between 30-50psi.

I employ two separate tankless heater settings; one for everyday use and one for when the missus wants to take a bath. It would fill very slowly on the everyday setting so we increase the water flow and the gas flow (both of these variables are on the heater itself) for this use. She (we) like a really hot bath. I see it occasionally producing water as hot as 50 C.

Other variables that can affect it's performance include how much alkaline buildup you have at the water valve, the shower head and how sensitive your shower's diverter valve (between bathtub faucet and shower head). You want both your cold and hot water as free flowing as possible through all these points of impediment.

I have heard many complaints about the Bosch's in our town. I have a small one under a sink in the wet bar and it has not failed in three years, but it doesnt get used much. I would stay away from Bosch; it is not made in Germany, if that is what you are thinking.

Ours is a Mexican brand, Aquor. Believe it is only 7 liters/minute.

Bob and Susan - 12-3-2016 at 10:17 AM

I had 7 units...the last 2 for the kitchen and washer are now gone...

I hated them

I replaced all units with 12 gallon heaters

way better flow of hot water...no burning or freezing when it turns on and off
no need for bigger...that's just a waste of propane
the smaller unit heat really fast

if you use more than 10 gallons of hot water in the shower you are using too much : )
it's called "forced participation" in saving water

I noticed in home depot they recommend a aux electric water pump be installed with tankless units to reduce the pressure issue...

I also found that buying a "step-up" in price heater unit is way better...the low end heaters just didn't last here in mulege with the hard water and salt in the air

I vote against the tankless heaters..they are not what you'd think

Barry A. - 12-3-2016 at 02:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

if you use more than 10 gallons of hot water in the shower you are using too much : )
it's called "forced participation" in saving water

I agree with Bob, only we are even more conservative. My wife and I use a 3-gallon sun-shower on boonie camping trips, me using 1 gallon, and wife using 2 gallons (she has more hair than I), when we shower. Totally adequate, even with washing our hair. We call our shower-type "navy showers" as one learns to conserve fresh water when aboard ship. (-:

monoloco - 12-3-2016 at 02:38 PM

I've been using two of the Bosch units they sell at Home Depot in Mexico. They've worked flawlessly for 7 years. I did have to replace the 2 D cell batteries that provide power to the igniter a couple years ago. Before that we had a Paloma that worked for 30 years.

pacificobob - 12-3-2016 at 03:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

I've been using two of the Bosch units they sell at Home Depot in Mexico. They've worked flawlessly for 7 years. I did have to replace the 2 D cell batteries that provide power to the igniter a couple years ago. Before that we had a Paloma that worked for 30 years.

love the palomas! i have used them from baja to alaska. easy to repair,great to use. that said, i did have some bad luck about 10 years ago with the bosch/homedepot. luck-of-the-draw i guess. i suppose tankless is to challenging for some folks.

bajatrailrider - 12-4-2016 at 08:01 AM

I changed to tankless set up from 10 gal water heater. Tank of gas lasted 1 month.Now over 3 months they are very tricky to use.Once you get the hang of it works great.You would never want them in a hotel. Also depends on the brand I have heard many complaints on Bosch units years ago.

pacificobob - 12-4-2016 at 08:10 AM

here is an electric tankless. 13kw (not solar friendly), 2 gal/min, $220
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-EcoSense-RETE-13-13kW-1-97-...

shari - 12-4-2016 at 08:26 AM

I have heard lots of complaints about the tankless...very finicky. We love our Rheum small water tanks...they heat up just enough for a nice shower in 15 minutes and last for many hours hot in the tank too. The great thing is if by chance the heating element burns out, they are easy to change and cheap. We put ours right in the shower top corner and we havent had to replace them ever. It is always wise to get water heaters where you live so you can get replacement parts easily when needed....a tip here...use what everyone else uses for success!

pacificobob - 12-4-2016 at 09:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

here is an electric tankless. 13kw (not solar friendly)

13 KW?! On Baja wiring? :lol:

clearly it requires a #4 or #6 wire depending on the run. not a big deal. quite do-able by any qualified electrician, or handy fellow.

vandenberg - 12-4-2016 at 11:18 AM

Larry,
Looks like Pacificobob's handy fellow was at work here. :biggrin:

BTW, never heard anything good or positive about tankless heaters.

[Edited on 12-4-2016 by vandenberg]

msteve1014 - 12-4-2016 at 02:07 PM

I have a Takagi tankless in my California house for 14 years. It has been great.
Would I try that in La Bocana? No way.
I also have 2 #10 wires feeding my whole house there.
I don't care what size wire you run from the panel to the heater, it wont work.

pacificobob - 12-4-2016 at 04:26 PM

living in a poorly wired home is not mandatory in mexico. its a choice.

bajatrailrider - 12-4-2016 at 04:32 PM

Everyone I know uses gas tankless heaters in Mexico,never electric.

msteve1014 - 12-4-2016 at 05:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

living in a poorly wired home is not mandatory in mexico. its a choice.

Thanks boob, that's good to know.

rts551 - 12-4-2016 at 05:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

clearly it requires a #4 or #6 wire depending on the run. not a big deal. quite do-able by any qualified electrician, or handy fellow.

Might need to have a little talk with the CFE folks first. :saint:

[Edited on 12-4-2016 by lencho]

I am sure they will come right out and fix you up with what ever you need :lol:

bowser - 12-4-2016 at 06:11 PM

Larry - we have 2 Bosch tankless heaters, both from Home Depot in Ensenada purchased
at different times. Both work great. I can't imagine using a tank when tankless is so easy.

Fernweh - 12-4-2016 at 06:43 PM

Living under the Baja sun.....

what is wrong with having a solar water heater system, easy installation!

I am using a good used 50 gal LP water heater as storage tank, no gas line hooked up.....

Find the the stuff here: http://www.heliatos.com/

Edguero - 12-4-2016 at 06:45 PM

I installed a Marey tankless years ago, 2D Batteries and a Shurflo, the trick is to fine tune the hot water temperature so you don't have to turn the cold on, works fantastic!!

dtbushpilot - 12-4-2016 at 08:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Fernweh

Living under the Baja sun.....

what is wrong with having a solar water heater system, easy installation!

I am using a good used 50 gal LP water heater as storage tank, no gas line hooked up.....

Find the the stuff here: http://www.heliatos.com/

We have a solar system, been working perfect for 5 years. No gas, no electric, no issues with fluctuating pressure from the typical Baja pressure pump system, small foot print etc., etc.

larryC - 12-5-2016 at 09:49 AM

Thanks for all the responses, I did consider them and then I decided to go tankless, and in the future I may add solar hot water. I bought a tankless from Homecheapo here in Bahia. It was not expensive, $1850 pesos. Pretty basic, rated at 7 lpm and has one knob on the front of the unit to control the gas flame. I got it all hooked up and it acted like most people said it would with fluctuating temperatures. Everything from scalding to cool. My setup is a 12v flojet 4gpm pump, and 1/2" copper pipes. The first thing I noticed was that my pump was cycling while I was using hot water, and the temperature fluctuations would coincide with the cycling. So I opened the hot water faucet all the way and added cold water to the desired temp. That helped, then I went out and reduced the flame by turning the knob on the heater to a lower flame. That helped, then I checked all my faucets and the shower head for calcium build up and restrictions and cleaned as necessary. Finally I replaced the filter element in my water filter. Now the pump runs constant and the temp doesn't cycle. The temp is constant and I set the flame so that the ;water temp is comfortable for a shower without adding any cold. Now remember the part about the heater being cheap? It seems you get what you pay for 'cause the heater developed a leak inside and I hesitate to take it apart and try to fix it. Afraid I might ruin it and not be able to return it and get my money back. A freind stopped in Ensenada and picked up a Bosch for me, so I will install that and see how it goes.

bajaguy - 12-5-2016 at 10:03 AM

A lot of it has to do with flow. We have a Bosch and we had to turn on the bathroom hot water faucet to get enough flow for hot water at the kitchen sink. I then discovered if I use the spray function on the kitchen faucet I can get hot water without using the bathroom faucet. I also took out the water restrictor in my shower head and get more water flow/hot water. Clean filters help. I may get a small pressure tank and booster pump to keep up the flow.........I believe Bosch has a flow sensor valve that you can adjust that kicks off the flame as it senses water flow. Have a tankless in the States and it works great without any problems

Quote: Originally posted by larryC

A freind stopped in Ensenada and picked up a Bosch for me, so I will install that and see how it goes.

BajaGringo - 12-5-2016 at 10:22 AM

Larry, we have 2 here at our place, one for downstairs and the other for upstairs. The downstairs model is gravity flow fed direct from our tinaco and the upstairs unit via a booster pump. We have had both units working for years now and once you get them dialed in, not only do they work great but they use MUCH less gas and allow for multiple showers, one after another without ever running out of hot water.

A couple of tips that I would offer:

1) Buy a model that works with low head pressure - even if you have a booster pump. The other models are more prone to cycle the internal burner (while you're showing) as the inlet pressure changes.

2) Make sure to install the units inside of your garage or utility room. A bit more complex than simple water heaters and with more electronics onboard, they are sensitive to the the elements and will hold up much better when protected.

3) When using a booster pump in your hot water system, best to install a really low flow shower head. That will help to buffer the effects you feel from the booster pump cycling.

4) I place 2 marks on the gas control - winter and summer settings to keep the hot water temperature just right based on the seasonal temperature of your water source. That really helped stabilize things in the long run.

The first unit I bought for our upstairs shower developed a leak too right after we started using it so I took it back and they gave me another identical one. The replacement unit has worked flawlessly now for nearly 5 years and still going strong.

YMMV

BajaGringo - 12-5-2016 at 10:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

A lot of it has to do with flow. We have a Bosch and we had to turn on the bathroom hot water faucet to get enough flow for hot water at the kitchen sink. I then discovered if I use the spray function on the kitchen faucet I can get hot water without using the bathroom faucet. I also took out the water restrictor in my shower head and get more water flow/hot water. Clean filters help. I may get a small pressure tank and booster pump to keep up the flow.........I believe Bosch has a flow sensor valve that you can adjust that kicks off the flame as it senses water flow. Have a tankless in the States and it works great without any problems

That is why I recommend to choose the units specifically designed to work with low head pressure situations. I had that same problem up at my cabin and solved it when a neighbor (a plumbing contractor) suggested making the switch. They are not that common NOB but I see them a lot down here.

Has worked quite well for me all these years...

David K - 12-5-2016 at 10:35 AM

Great help Ron!

These things are touchy, and obviously still not 100%.

The idea is great, why heat up 30-50 gallons of water in a tank 24/7 for the minutes you use hot water each day?

The Europeans don't tank hot water, they use these tankless heaters.

I used to sell water heaters back when the tankless units began being marketed heavily (at least where I worked in the 1990s). Back then it was the cost that was so prohibitive, but if the units had any of these problems reported here, my plumber customers would never buy them (again). Warranty call-backs are the worst and generally money lost for the labor of replacing or fixing newly installed products.

imlost - 12-5-2016 at 12:30 PM

I have a tankless water heater that supplies hot water to the whole house. I hate it. If the water isn't flowing at a certain high volume, it doesn't turn on. Makes showering tricky and annoying, and I tend to waste water trying to get it just right.

My house is completely off-grid. I'm thinking of installing a tank-style water heater inline, before my tankless propane water heater. The tank water heater will have a 12 volt heating element which will be connected to a couple of photo-voltaic solar panels. The idea is this: When it's sunny, the tank style heater preheats the water before it goes through the tankless water heater, so I'm not using propane. When it's cloudy & cool, the tankless water heater will kick on & supply hot water. Have any of you done this? Can you foresee any problems?

Fernweh - 12-5-2016 at 06:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by imlost

I have a tankless water heater that supplies hot water to the whole house. I hate it. If the water isn't flowing at a certain high volume, it doesn't turn on. Makes showering tricky and annoying, and I tend to waste water trying to get it just right.

My house is completely off-grid. I'm thinking of installing a tank-style water heater inline, before my tankless propane water heater. The tank water heater will have a 12 volt heating element which will be connected to a couple of photo-voltaic solar panels. The idea is this: When it's sunny, the tank style heater preheats the water before it goes through the tankless water heater, so I'm not using propane. When it's cloudy & cool, the tankless water heater will kick on & supply hot water. Have any of you done this? Can you foresee any problems?

Not sure a 12V heating element would do the trick.......

Nothing wrong with "preheating" the water in a storage tank (traditional water heater) using solar. I have a tiny 12V solar driven circulation pump installed, it has its own small 10W 12V panel. That little pumps keeps the water in the tank at a quiet high temperature. To make the system even a bit more sophisticated, I recently installed an electronic temp controller ($24.00) to only keep the solar pump running if the water temp is higher in the solar collector than in the water tank.
This system is working perfect during most of the year, just in the wintertime with a 3 - 4 days overcast, I would like to have the LP gas hooked up to the water heater......

dtbushpilot - 12-5-2016 at 08:00 PM

I have a small LP gas heater next to the solar storage tank for the times when I have a lot of company and successive cloudy days. I think I've only lit it once in 5 years. On a sunny day the water in the 80 gal storage tank can reach 180+ degrees F. There is a mixing valve on the tank to provide hot water to the house at whatever temp you desire. I know solar is off topic, just thought I'd share an alternate consideration. We use ours full time, it may not be as happy only using it seasonally or a few weeks at a time.

monoloco - 12-5-2016 at 08:28 PM

They also work much better when installed very close to the point of use.

bledito - 12-5-2016 at 08:39 PM

drill out the rivets holding the bottom on your tank, pull out the gas burner. Now punch some one inch holes around the bottom. set It up on a couple of cinder blocks. now scavenge the beach for drift wood toss t under the bottom and voila free hot water, works great on those cloudy days too. recommended for outside use only.

Bob and Susan - 12-6-2016 at 06:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by imlost

...My house is completely off-grid.

I'm thinking of installing a tank-style water heater inline, before my tankless propane water heater.

The tank water heater will have a 12 volt heating element which will be connected to a couple of photo-voltaic solar panels. The idea is this: When it's sunny, the tank style heater preheats the water before it goes through the tankless water heater, so I'm not using propane. When it's cloudy & cool, the tankless water heater will kick on & supply hot water...

this will work...in the summer months we ONLY use a pilot light on our 12 gallon heater...the water is hot in the morning EVERY time

the problem you will have is use of too much water...
the endless flow of hot water let people stay in the show TOO LONG

I installed a heater after the tankless...remember I had 7 total...the water in the small 12 gallon units was always hot in the showers as along as the water was on

soylent_green - 12-6-2016 at 05:11 PM

My Bosch tankless has a mind of its own - sometimes works, sometimes doesn't and I can't see a pattern as to when and why.

Put in a gas water heater in the back guest house and works like a dream. 2017 to do list includes changing out the tankless in the main house.

I have read a little into using excess solar produced by my panels and setting up a dump load to heat water. If anyone has done this, I would be interested in hearing more.

[Edited on 12-7-2016 by soylent_green]

larryC - 12-8-2016 at 05:00 PM

I have been using the Bosch Balanz 7 heater now for 4 days and it works really well for me. When I bought the heater it came with an install and user manual but it is in Spanish only. I looked on the Bosch website but could not find where to download an English version of the manual. Anyone know where I might find a site to download a manual. My Spanish is poor enough but when you get into technical jargon then I am completely lost.

bkbend - 12-8-2016 at 07:00 PM

I tried to find an english version for my Bosch and never could. I guess different models/manuals for different countries and no need for english language manual if it's sold only in spanish speaking countries. I finally translated enough to get by.

larryC - 12-9-2016 at 01:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bkbend

I tried to find an english version for my Bosch and never could. I guess different models/manuals for different countries and no need for english language manual if it's sold only in spanish speaking countries. I finally translated enough to get by.

I couldn't even find a spanish version of the manual, and like you I got it installed well enough to make it work well. If I could find the spanish version I could have it translated. I'm sure there is some info in there that will come in handy in a year or 2 when it is time to do some maintenance on it.

Hook - 12-9-2016 at 03:30 PM

I dont think there is any maintenance, except maybe drain it when you are not expecting to use it for long periods. And replace the igniter battery.

Both of mine are really simple. Our manual says very little. One valve controls the gas flow and one controls the water flow. Depending on your pressure variance and uses, you set these for the specific use. As mentioned, I have settings for a bath and a setting for shower and/or kitchen sink.

I suppose there is a jet in there that may need to be cleaned occasionally, as propane is pretty dirty, really.

bkbend - 12-9-2016 at 06:39 PM

Oops. Mine's about 8 years old and came with a paper manual to translate. As I recall it doesn't have much for maintenance info but the water flow knob did seize up from that good bahia water and I had to pull off the knob and loosen it with pliers. I now spin it a couple times a year to keep it free. Just make sure you have your sweet spot marked.

[Edited on 12-10-2016 by bkbend]

Doug/Vamonos - 12-18-2016 at 08:08 AM

Hey Larry. Sammy and Andy have had one several years now. Pepe set it up. I've used it a bunch of times and works fine. Tim has had one now for three or four years and he loves it. I've used his, too, and hot water was immediate. It's amazing how quickly it heats up. I was gonna get one in my new place but my shower location didn't really lend itself to it, without mounting it outside in a box. What is nice is having it very near the shower so you can adjust the temp.

tankless for sale

LaPazRico - 12-18-2016 at 09:13 AM

One for sale in La Paz
http://bajaclassifieds.24sevenpulse.com/for-sale/household-g...