BajaNomad

Mapping GPS

Gulliver - 1-11-2017 at 09:04 PM

My GPS is so old that I can't find a lump of coal to feed it any more. And the only map I have on it for this area predates the Spanish explorers.

I need a unit that can mount on my motorcycle bars, run off of 12v and can hold some decent Baja maps. I'd the maps to be as good as the Baja almanac. (dreaming, I know)

I'm not afraid of looking for a used unit. It would be really nice if I could talk to it from a Mac without running Windows even on Bootcamp or such as I loath M.S. stuff. I'd rather eat a bug than send my money their way.

Also I have an Android phone with GPS but any app has to run offline as there is, of course, no cell coverage up in the dingleberries where I ride.

It would also be a plus if it didn't cost more than an arm and maybe half of a leg.

[Edited on 1-12-2017 by Gulliver]

mcnut - 1-12-2017 at 02:03 AM

If you have good eyes the Garmin 78 is a good auto/MC/handheld. For the bike it has a robust direct 12v input where most have a mini USB that often fail when used offroad on a MC. You would need to load detailed maps Garmin, E32 or free OSM. Also figure on a RAM mount + hardwire. This is far and away the lowest cost outfit short of just buying a low cost automobile unit (not recommended for several reasons.).

If your eyes are not so good you might look at the Garmin Montana. Again add maps and the HD AMPS mount for it.

The Zumo line are the Garmin MC specific units but a little more money and a little less flexible.

Bruce

PaulW - 1-12-2017 at 02:51 AM

For Baja or US or both?
Other considerations are size and touch screen and power source for the bike. Mounting on a bike is an issue and will require some research and work arounds.
If you have good experience with touch then it opens up the choices greatly.
For a bike stay above a 3" screen.
Your computer needs to read and write SD cards. PC offers better map editing SW. Get an entry level one.
More later

Gulliver - 1-12-2017 at 07:38 AM

I've had good service out of my old Garmin GPS 5 with a Tourtech mount but I don't seem to be able to find Baja topo maps that are compatible with it.

What I do now is copy the appropriate pages from the almanac and take them with me. When I'm at some obscure road intersection I look at the lat/lon numbers on the GPS and transfer them to the paper map with a set of dividers.

This is more accurate than the map much of the time but is a grossly primitive and slow way to go.

The GPS, of course, generates a track and if I wanted to suppress my nausea for a while could, I'm told, transfer them to a Windows machine.

Why can't Garmin creep into at least the 20th. century and make their stuff Mac compatible. Is there some old grump waiting to die in their tech department who hated Steve Jobs?

Yeah, Windows machines are cheap but my convenience and peace of mind are worth something too. The 2009 MacBook Pro I am using now cost me $200 and runs the latest system which was free from Mac. And the system is based on Unix which was pretty well armored against back door flaws when Noah was a pup. (end of whining for now)

I'm looking in to the Garmin 78 and the other suggestions.

PaulW - 1-12-2017 at 09:19 AM

78 has a 1.4x2.16" screen. Pretty small and you probably will ignore it after riding a few miles. Might as well use your phone. In fact my phone is much bigger. Size really matters. Minimum size for a car/truck is 7" diag. with 8-9 preferred.
Look at the screen size on any Dakar bike. My guess is square 4-5" across which is pretty big diagonally.
Garmin sells Bike specific units that will accept micro SD for adding their maps at $79 each. The units sell for a bunch of $ and have feature I would have no use for.
Any NUVI will accept maps, but unless you are a tech guru they will not make usable tracks or share imported tracks. All you really get is a nice picture and ability to make WPs.
I would suggest the over priced Montana or a used XOG or Trophy Baja and do your own mount. Those 3 all accept Murdocknav maps which are the best available for Baja. Touch screens. SD card unit is mandatory and your Mac may not be able to copy paste to them? There are other units available in the 4-5" size. Let me ask a few people to see what they are using.
BTW, I use both platforms and prefer Lowrance with buttons.

BigBearRider - 1-12-2017 at 09:20 AM

Mike,

There is a GPS program called MotionX.

It allows you to download maps so that you can navigate without cell coverage. I downloaded it once for a Baja trip, but someone else handled the navigation using the same program so I never used it.

It may be iPhone only.

http://gps.motionx.com/

mcnut - 1-12-2017 at 11:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Gulliver  

Why can't Garmin creep into at least the 20th. century and make their stuff Mac compatible. Is there some old grump waiting to die in their tech department who hated Steve Jobs?

I'm looking in to the Garmin 78 and the other suggestions.


Garmin's BaseCamp GPS computer interface/mapping program is available for Mac.

http://www.garmin.com/en-US/shop/downloads/basecamp

For Me;

Mini USB for external power are not reliable (can/will trash GPS eventually) offroad on a MC. Better to use GPS battery if heavyduty hardwire connection is not available. Note that Phones and Garmin Nuvi units use a mini USB style power plug and their batteries have very limited duration when used for full time navigation.

and

Touch screens suck (I own several of each) when used on the handlebars of an MC offroad. Far to bumpy resulting in unwanted inputs, most are not glove friendly and wiping the inevitable dust off will cause all kinds of unwanted issues.

Bruce

[Edited on 1-12-2017 by mcnut]

Gulliver - 1-12-2017 at 11:49 AM

Lots of great info. Keep it coming.

Barbara is down with the crud so I am babysitting and have plenty of time to screw around on the web.

mcnut - 1-12-2017 at 01:09 PM

OK then.

After the Garmin 78 cam out I wanted to see how a low cost GPS setup would work for offroad MC use as the preferred units Zumo and Montana are fairly expensive (though they do have their advantages).
I ordered a base 78 ($180), a power lead ($22) and RAM MC mount ($38).

Then downloaded the free OSM maps. For about $250 I had a fully functional, modern GPS setup. I have since purchased the Garmin CityNavigator with coverage of US, Canada and Mexico as I find CNNA to be slightly more comprehensive. I also bought Garmin TOPO Mexico which are the BiciMapas repackaged.

This ends up being a very advanced navigation system at lowest possible prices. Has the latest waypoint, route and track (200 tracks of 10k points each) capabilities, buttons (an advantage to me) HD power plug and the versatility of a handheld. Only down side, but a deal breaker for some, is the screen size.

Need a bigger screen = Zumo or Montana or phone(all are touch screen only). Lorance (and related maps) may be gread units for Baja and marine but the rest of the Western Hemisphere lives on Garmin.

The $$$, newest, greatest prospect is the brand new Garmin 276Cx, but it still has a few firmware revisions to go through before all the bugs get worked out. Did I mention $$$. Also Garmin has bought DeLorme and their inReach technology (think SPOT with 2 way texting) and will likely release a full function GPS/inReach unit sometime down the road.

For Baja I would view units with preloaded maps as having little added value because the map coverage would likely not extend to Mexico.

Some swear by the phone option but I'm old school and dragging my feet on that one. Always sounds like multiple unrelated apps are required to deliver the same function as one advanced GPS and the power options a potential problem.

Edit to add what I think is one of the more informative forums for MC GPS use.

http://advrider.com/index.php?forums/mapping-navigation.37/

Bruce

[Edited on 1-12-2017 by mcnut]

Gulliver - 1-12-2017 at 02:24 PM

Thanks Bruce. I'll do some reading over there.

The small screen doesn't bug me as I never look at it when I'm under way. Moving a little quickly for that sort of thing.

You should see me in the evenings here at the house transferring waypoints from my old GPS-5 to my paper maps. Just like Bob Cratchit from A Christmas Carol. All I need is a quill pen.

PaulW - 1-12-2017 at 02:52 PM

Buttons win and the 276cx is popular around here several guys have them ordered. Pricey, but should work great on a bike. Stay away for the very cheap Garmin units and you will be happy.
Don't give up on paper maps. They are still a valuable tool. I use the appropriate INEGI maps and the Almanac all the time. Like you said kinda cumbersome to plot points. I use Trackmaker to add WPs to my tracks. TM can handle all formats. Modified tracks work great on Google earth for posting and for those discussions over coffee.
The best GPS I ever had was a Lowrance 7200c, but my newest HDS Gen2 7m is a pretty good replacement. Cheaper than a comparable Garmin. I just ignore the marine features. Yup both have buttons.

mcnut - 1-12-2017 at 03:29 PM

All great points Paul.

I did try TrackMaker based on your recommendation recently but ran into one obstacle (for me) and ultimately a deal breaker. TM forced my .gpx file association to open TM (not a surprise) and all attempts to change via normal W10 steps failed. I commonly use any of several mapping/GPS programs with BaseCamp being the most common. TM not allowing me to choose my preferred file association was a deal breaker for me, so I emailed their Tech Support asking for guidance and never received a response from them. So boom, I deleted TM and all is well again. Also not sure TM is Mac compatible as Gulliver prefers.

If I were to try something other than BaseCamp it would be FURKOT which many seem to like.

Besides the Garmin 78 I also roll with a 60csx, Nuvi 500, Zumo 660, and Gulliver before that a GPSMAP V.

Small screen aside, a couple thing I like about handhelds is that the base models usually don't come with preloaded maps/coverage that I may not use. Garmin does this because the handhelds are very versatile and may see a wide array of uses, leaving the buyer to chooses what map types and coverage are preferred. Also they are by far the best option should you breakdown and have to walk out. Also easy to grab and take with if someone else is driving/skippering/piloting.

Bruce



[Edited on 1-12-2017 by mcnut]

JZ - 1-12-2017 at 05:34 PM

You absolutely, possitively DO NOT want a stand alone GPS. They suck in 2017 compared to phone based apps.

The UI and screen and how you get info to them are TERRIBLE compared to a phone based app.

Motion X is the best I've seen, but there are others. Navonics is the best for on the water.

And you can download the section of maps you need for offline use when no cell service.

Do not waste your money on a stand along GPS whether for use on the boat or land. Phone apps are 10x better and 10x cheaper.

Signed, the owner of a half dozen Garmins, etc.



[Edited on 1-13-2017 by JZ]

Gulliver - 1-12-2017 at 05:42 PM

I am going to look into Android based solutions. Not that my phone is that robust or dust proof. I seldom look at my GPS when in motion so dragging a phone out to let it get a fix wouldn't be a big deal. Or I can wrap it in a baggie maybe.

I don't know good the built in GPS is though on Google Maps it zeros in on my front yard O.K.

Depends on what maps I can get for it because, as I said before, I'm way far away from the web or cell coverage. I cone to some mostly abandoned side road and want to locate it on my topo map.

I'll check in to this Motion X stuff.

Gulliver - 1-12-2017 at 05:54 PM

That Locus Pro looks great. How do you find and download Mexico topos?

JZ - 1-12-2017 at 07:23 PM

Back country seems to be the leader for Android.

Motion X definitely lets you download all the maps you need so you don't need a connection.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=85160#pid1061...

[Edited on 1-13-2017 by JZ]

PaulW - 1-13-2017 at 10:28 AM

Bruce, when you use the open command Choose the format you want. The list is all inclusive and will open your GPX file . I use it all the time for GPX files. Mostly the formats I use are USR, GPX, and KML. There are many others that I have no use for.

Download the TM manual for help or just contact me.

BTW, my main complaint is the issue of creating WPs. I have it figured it out now, but still complain each time. I had to use the manual brcause it was not intuitive.
Paul
======== =====
Quote: Originally posted by mcnut  
All great points Paul.

I did try TrackMaker based on your recommendation recently but ran into one obstacle (for me) and ultimately a deal breaker. TM forced my .gpx file association to open TM (not a surprise) and all attempts to change via normal W10 steps failed. I commonly use any of several mapping/GPS programs with BaseCamp being the most common. TM not allowing me to choose my preferred file association was a deal breaker for me, so I emailed their Tech Support asking for guidance and never received a response from them. So boom, I deleted TM and all is well again. Also not sure TM is Mac compatible as Gulliver prefers.

If I were to try something other than BaseCamp it would be FURKOT which many seem to like.

Besides the Garmin 78 I also roll with a 60csx, Nuvi 500, Zumo 660, and Gulliver before that a GPSMAP V.

Small screen aside, a couple thing I like about handhelds is that the base models usually don't come with preloaded maps/coverage that I may not use. Garmin does this because the handhelds are very versatile and may see a wide array of uses, leaving the buyer to chooses what map types and coverage are preferred. Also they are by far the best option should you breakdown and have to walk out. Also easy to grab and take with if someone else is driving/skippering/piloting.

Bruce



[Edited on 1-12-2017 by mcnut]


[Edited on 1-13-2017 by PaulW]

David K - 1-13-2017 at 11:15 AM

Not exactly the same, but I paired my android phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) with an inReach GPS tracker/messenger.

To put North American topo maps on your phone (free) use the Earthmate app. Not sure if the GPS in the phone or in the inReach device is doing the work, but my phone has a live, moving map showing my position on a color, topo map (of Baja). Below the map, on the phone screen, is your speed, compass heading, elevation, and GPS longitude and latitude.

Earthmate is the name of the app.

willyAirstream - 1-13-2017 at 11:48 AM
Quote:

Back country seems to be the leader for Android. Motion X definitely lets you download all the maps you need so you don't need a connection. http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=85160#pid1061...



˄˄˄ ditto ˄˄˄˄

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