BajaNomad

OK folks, I have a for real and serious question-

Cliffy - 2-22-2017 at 06:59 PM

I know, I know, it's not Baja but again you guys have real answers-

We are still going to Rocky Point in about a week but some of our group are questioning the trip with today's events on the President's guide lines for Immigration enforcement.

Anyone wish to comment that is currently in or living there with first hand experience as to the "attitude" of the local populace toward Americans today?
Please, I just want some honest answers that I can show our friends, from people already down there.

We have a couple from our group really concerned.

TMW - 2-22-2017 at 07:14 PM

Cliffy check your U2U

ehall - 2-22-2017 at 07:20 PM

Haha. Don't sweat it. There's not many Mexicans left in r.p.

mtgoat666 - 2-22-2017 at 07:28 PM

In conversations over beers with Mexicans in baja, I found that most Mexicans are shocked and aghast at Trump, and hate trump just as much as most gringos do.
But like usual, Mexicans treat you based on who you are, not who is your prez.
That said, you would be pretty stupid to drive around with a trump bumper sticker on your car.
Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  
I know, I know, it's not Baja but again you guys have real answers-

We are still going to Rocky Point in about a week but some of our group are questioning the trip with today's events on the President's guide lines for Immigration enforcement.

Anyone wish to comment that is currently in or living there with first hand experience as to the "attitude" of the local populace toward Americans today?
Please, I just want some honest answers that I can show our friends, from people already down there.

We have a couple from our group really concerned.

rts551 - 2-22-2017 at 07:35 PM

I am trying to figure out where the fake news is in this post???

The people here in Baja Sur seem to be preoccupied by Trump (lots of questions) and they do not like him....but are polite about it. Not overly aggressive. I suspect Puerto Penasco is the same. Things could change in the larger cities is the meeting dos not go well with Tillerson and Kelly. There was a large demonstration against Trump in Mexico City earlier this month.

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-us-mexico...

Meany - 2-22-2017 at 07:36 PM

GO Have Fun. Life is to Short......:bounce::bounce:

mtgoat666 - 2-22-2017 at 08:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Cliffy, don't listen to fake news! Drama driven.


If the truth is inconvenient or embarrasses you, then call it fake!

truly is embarrassing to see our great country defiled by the incompetent fool manipulated by nefarious sycophants.

Cliffy - 2-22-2017 at 08:21 PM

Checked!

TMW - 2-22-2017 at 09:01 PM

Lots of demonstrations in the Valley, some on immigration and some on possibility of losing Obama care. Daughter works at a Fresno hospital emergency room and yesterday they had 100 patients and only two spoke English. Most would not sign papers for funds to help pay for their visit. The hospital has a fund to help the poor but you must sign papers to get it and no it's not something new for Trump. Been there for years.

Hook - 2-22-2017 at 09:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Cliffy, don't listen to fake news! Drama driven.


How ironic you would say this, David, when Fox is the poster child for drama-driven news about Mexico.

DaliDali - 2-22-2017 at 09:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
I am trying to figure out where the fake news is in this post???

The people here in Baja Sur seem to be preoccupied by Trump (lots of questions) and they do not like him....but are polite about it. Not overly aggressive. I suspect Puerto Penasco is the same. Things could change in the larger cities is the meeting dos not go well with Tillerson and Kelly. There was a large demonstration against Trump in Mexico City earlier this month.

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-us-mexico...


In my neck of the woods, very few Mexicans ask me about the Trump presidency.....

When they do ask, I politely tell them that the government of Mexico requires me to live there legally and with the proper documents and the US is only enforcing the very same thing Mexico enforces and requires of foreign nationals either visiting or living in Mexico.
They nod their head in agreement and that is the end of it.

bajabuddha - 2-22-2017 at 09:31 PM

The folks in Puerto Peñasco know better than to poop in their own nest; they know their subsistence survives on American dolares. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" is a very crucial idiom, so go, be a happy tourista and you'll be fine. Just don't try to justify your trumpanzee-ness if you have the disease.

DENNIS - 2-23-2017 at 08:42 AM



Ignorant people are where you find them......or they find you. Just don't respond to any negativity.

pacificobob - 2-23-2017 at 08:51 AM

just wear your FDT tshirt

Bubba - 2-23-2017 at 09:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
In conversations over beers with Mexicans in baja, I found that most Mexicans are shocked and aghast at Trump, and hate trump just as much as most gringos do.
But like usual, Mexicans treat you based on who you are, not who is your prez.
That said, you would be pretty stupid to drive around with a trump bumper sticker on your car.

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  
I know, I know, it's not Baja but again you guys have real answers-

We are still going to Rocky Point in about a week but some of our group are questioning the trip with today's events on the President's guide lines for Immigration enforcement.

Anyone wish to comment that is currently in or living there with first hand experience as to the "attitude" of the local populace toward Americans today?
Please, I just want some honest answers that I can show our friends, from people already down there.

We have a couple from our group really concerned.


"I found that most Mexicans are shocked and aghast at Trump, and hate trump just as much as most gringos do."

Unbelievable and ignorant statement if it wasn't coming from you. It's simply wishful thinking on your part. Give it a rest.

Tomas Tierra - 2-23-2017 at 10:37 AM

FWIW

I was paraded through a remote PAC Side fishing village in BCS in my MX buddies car.. It was New Years Eve everybody had something big going. One guy had a cow hanging, another house was chopping up a goat for Birria.. We stopped at each place, had a beer and I was introduced as a Trump voter (voter, not supporter.... To me there was no other choice but to keep that witch out of office) nobody gave a rats culo except my buddy Pengua, he has always been very political in the 25 years I've known him and his family. We all laughed at the trump sticker I put on penguas car... We drank and laughed about the whole scenario..

Not sure how the Mexicans in populated areas feel

TT

soulpatch - 2-23-2017 at 10:43 AM

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz!
The goat hooks up again.... let's see how much line gets pulled off the reel.

No problems that I have run into openly in Nayarit and Jalisco.

Yes, there have been some rantings on social media about P-nche gringos and how they go home if you don't like it here.
None of that is new.

The bottom line is people want to earn dollars and live in pesos.
Your concerned companions will have a blast.

Go have fun.

motoged - 2-23-2017 at 11:00 AM

My thoughts about wary travelers is that if they have strong concerns about a destination, they should probably not go, as their preconceived fears are likely set ....and they will be looking for examples to prove their fearful perspectives (the old unconscious mind at work :coolup: ).

It isn't really a Trump thing (although his small-handed mind is only surpassed by his crass mind)....although his rhetoric hasn't endeared him to anybody except like-minded folks....and ...."you can't fix stupid", as a republican friend pointed out to me a few years go.

Hey, if you a fearful of jumping....don't jump. :light:

motoged - 2-23-2017 at 11:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I have spent 17 days in Baja on two trips since the election. What Tomas Tierra and soulpatch say is fact. What goat posts is false.

The people of Baja are friendly and have no interest in a political debate about a foreign country. The are pleasers, and if you arrive wearing Obama or Hillary shirts, they will pretend to support your view. If you arrive neutral, you will not hear any disrespect for the president. The made-up drama is hysterical.


David,
Most of us are aware of your self-professed claim to be a expert on all things Baja and politics, but where do you get off saying Goat's statements are false, while crediting other opinions as being facts?

Appears to support the statement that if you don't like an opinion or apparent facts (with evidence), just call it fake news.

WTF????

While hijacking other people's threads and shilling your mission stories, you come out of your corner with the tired old Karl Marx quips...and that is getting real old....

soulpatch - 2-23-2017 at 11:36 AM

Sigh.

I would disagree that they are not interested in political debate ( or, as it manifests itself here, bashing each other over the head with a club made of ideology ) or, as most of us would rather have, discussion.

They are quite interested in the state of politics in the USA, now more than ever China, Japan and any other country they do consistent trade with and how it affects their currency, daily lives, lives of extended family and friends, etc; etc.

I have been asked, frequently enough and quite calmly, how I feel about "my" new president.
What has followed has been discussion.

I guess it is all in how you are perceived regarding having discussions with people.

And, no doubt, there are Mexicans who support Trump... they are few and, in my unscientific observation, they are from a class most of us here do not belong to.

I almost did not respond to this just because of this type of horsechit that is degrading this forum but, what the heck, I guess I swallowed the bait, too.

Peace

JoeJustJoe - 2-23-2017 at 12:30 PM

Well what do you think is going to happen to a thread like this that's really not about a serious question, and borders on a trolling alarmist question, asking if the Mexican natives are going to hold the election of Donald Trump, against American tourists.

Although, there is always real concern about the safety of Mexico, and it's always asked.

This question is just another variation of the questions that ask, " IS MEXICO SAFE?"

I just roll my eyes when I read some dumb questions, when you know millions of tourists visit Mexico every years, and they make it back safe.

Does anybody really think that anything more than a tiny minuscule of mentally sick Mexicans, will hold the election of Trump, against an American tourist or ex-pat?

Put the shoe of the other foot, and lets say Mexico elected an American hating President, who called Americans rapists and criminals, and vowed to deport all the illegally aliens Americans back to the US.

Would you hold the statements or polices against the average Mexican tourist or worker visiting the USA because of the xenophobic, racist or bigoted statements by the newly elected Mexican President in my hypothetical example?

I like Cliffy's question,, " we have a couple of our group really concerned." Yeah right, I think it's Cliffy, is the only one who is really concerned, or he is just trolling or engaging in alarmist type behavior.

I think only 3 percent of Mexicans view Trump favorable, compared to the latest poll that show Trump's favorable rating at 39 percent.

If you're really concerned about the latest safety of Mexico, turn to the US State Department, which list travel warnings all the time, and so far they have not listed the election of Trump of causing any increase of safety concerns for American travelers to Mexico.




David K - 2-23-2017 at 12:54 PM

Ged, read more than my posts, please. I was just supporting the rational answers here and not creating new stuff to debate.

Are you coming south from Canada this year or do you let what Goat says keep you from enjoying Baja?

motoged - 2-23-2017 at 01:27 PM

David,
I have been living in Baja since the beginning of November '16.
During this time I have had numerous conversations with Mexicans and non-nationals who are living here or just passing through.... some, like you, think that Trump is the best thing going....and others don't.

Thanks for your reading advice, but don't flatter yourself thinking I read just your posts.....
It is that some of your comments are worthy of responding....like categorizing Mexicans as being "pleasers"...:

"The people of Baja are friendly and have no interest in a political debate about a foreign country. The[y] are pleasers, and if you arrive wearing Obama or Hillary shirts, they will pretend to support your view. If you arrive neutral, you will not hear any disrespect for the president."

If you did more than drive through a place and perhaps develop a more sincere and meaningful relationship with locals, you might have a different experience. :light:

Goat's comments regarding political views are somewhat in parallel with my own (although he might dis me for being a knuckle-dragging offroader), so....no, they don't keep me away from either being here or enjoying it.

David K - 2-23-2017 at 01:40 PM

Sure thing, I just wish people can get beyond this political thing. The election is over, so get over it. Again, I did not begin a new thought in this thread, just agreeing with Nomads who LIVE in Mexico. Debate them, as they are the ones who called out goat with his version of reality.

pacificobob - 2-23-2017 at 02:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I have spent 17 days in Baja on two trips since the election. What Tomas Tierra and soulpatch say is fact. What goat posts is false.

The people of Baja are friendly and have no interest in a political debate about a foreign country. The are pleasers, and if you arrive wearing Obama or Hillary shirts, they will pretend to support your view. If you arrive neutral, you will not hear any disrespect for the president. The made-up drama is hysterical.


no kidding? 17 days! you must be a quick study to divine such a vast understanding of the local sentiments in such a brief interval. i have been here since the election(and before) and would hesitate to draw conclusions about the opinions of all mexicans.

David K - 2-23-2017 at 02:53 PM

Again, reading 101, I was responding to Tomas and Soul, not creating new observations. The few days I spend driving a few thousand miles means I cover more area and not just hanging around in one place. That's not better, just different.

Lee - 2-23-2017 at 03:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Sure thing, I just wish people can get beyond this political thing. The election is over, so get over it. Again, I did not begin a new thought in this thread, just agreeing with Nomads who LIVE in Mexico. Debate them, as they are the ones who called out goat with his version of reality.


On subject, this forum is not the place to determine the attitudes at Rockies. Just go and have fun and find out. Doubt there' ll be demonstrations. Maybe things are still passionate in MX City.

And unless a MX is directly affect by immigration, I think it's meaningless to them. US politics doesn't come up down here except over drinks. From here, who cares. I don't.

Keep wishing for people to get over the political thing. It's not going to happen. The election is over, most definitely, but lots and lots of people aren't over it and won't be over it until prez pu$$ygrabber is out of office -- impeached, resigned, or a number of ways. My life's goal is to make that bully's life as miserable as I can for as long as it takes.

Strangely, I'm in line with his politics. Things changed when he insulted a former POW and American Hero, John McCain. Don't like McCain or his politics but insulting his POW status was over the top.

Cliffy - 2-23-2017 at 03:34 PM

I actually had to go back and reread my OP just to see if I said something that would have or should have evoked so much vitriol.
After doing that, I'm convinced that what I asked shouldn't have caused such vicious commentary from anyone, anywhere near sanity.

At least most people grounded in sanity tune out such commentary as lunacy and give it no weight.

Yes, I asked the question BUT I am not the one concerned. The question was true and not trolling no matter what someone else postulated.
I thank those who kept on point and provided reasonable answers for me to show someone else.

LancairDriver - 2-23-2017 at 03:47 PM

Since this thread has gone off topic anyway:
Might as well settle in for another eight years of Trump. Many will not even be around by the time he leaves office, particularly those who are most stressed out over his election. As for old warmonger McCain, getting shot down doesn't make him a hero, nor does sitting in the Hanoi Hilton with hundreds of others just as unlucky.

By the way, this war thing is a two way street. The North Koreans, Chinese, and Vietnamese gave many US Marines, and other American servicemen an opportunity to die for their country also. No glory or winners there.

BajaNaranja - 2-23-2017 at 03:54 PM

Cliffy - Not your bad - this forum is full of people pushing their own agendas.

It is a reasonable question you ask - to inquire whether folks down south are getting riled up about the political drama created by our current president.

The approach taken by the current prez has been inflammatory, narrowminded, and unilateral towards Mex.

At some point, folks down south may start to push back against the policies of our current president - and may even lash out at those they perceive to have voted for him / support him.

Yes the election is over, we all wish we could "get over it," but now the aftermath ensues, with regard to policy enactment.

I cross the border regularly with young kids and a wife in the car, and I am concerned that eventually the wall / immigration / etc. actions taken by our current prez may result in angry actions against folks in US-plated cars.

JoeJustJoe - 2-23-2017 at 04:04 PM

Some of the posts in this thread do not show any enlightenment at all.

Since I'm in the nice part of "Baja Nomad' I'm going to bite my tongue.

Please don't stereotype Mexicans, even with positive stereotypes, because that could also come off as insulting to Mexicans. In Mexico, just like the US, they come in all shapes, sizes, and varieties. One size doesn't fit all. If you want to stereotype Mexicans, just realize Americans have their own stereotype reputation, and it's not always good.

Mexicans are also not dancing monkeys, and nobody here is an organ grinder.
____________________________________


bajabuddha wrote: The folks in Puerto Peñasco know better than to poop in their own nest; they know their subsistence survives on American dolares. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"
_______________________________
David K wrote: The people of Baja are friendly and have no interest in a political debate about a foreign country. The are pleasers,

paranewbi - 2-23-2017 at 04:27 PM

I think the most worried people right now are the 2 million + that were deported during the Obama administrations run. Might even be a few in RP who hold a grudge.

Sad part is they never got their day in the news so that all of those people who don't like deportations could have stormed the Obama and Democrats town halls.

Tomas Tierra - 2-23-2017 at 05:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi  
I think the most worried people right now are the 2 million + that were deported during the Obama administrations run. Might even be a few in RP who hold a grudge.

Sad part is they never got their day in the news so that all of those people who don't like deportations could have stormed the Obama and Democrats town halls.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bajabuddha - 2-23-2017 at 05:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  
Since this thread has gone off topic anyway:
Might as well settle in for another eight years of Trump. Many will not even be around by the time he leaves office, particularly those who are most stressed out over his election. As for old warmonger McCain, getting shot down doesn't make him a hero, nor does sitting in the Hanoi Hilton with hundreds of others just as unlucky.

By the way, this war thing is a two way street. The North Koreans, Chinese, and Vietnamese gave many US Marines, and other American servicemen an opportunity to die for their country also. No glory or winners there.


Ever been shot at, Sparky?:smug:

DaliDali - 2-23-2017 at 05:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  


Put the shoe of the other foot, and lets say Mexico elected an American hating President, who called Americans rapists and criminals, and vowed to deport all the illegally aliens Americans back to the US.



And the problem with deporting illegal Americans is what?...

Does Mexico or does Mexico not require foreign national tourists and residents to be legal, get legal or face the consequences when discovered?

Sounds EXACTLY like what the USA does and is doing....right?

[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali]

DaliDali - 2-23-2017 at 05:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
David,
I have been living in Baja since the beginning of November '16.



4 or 5 months now....and you have it all figured out and feel fully qualified to speak on the attitudes of how Mexicans feel about USA politics?..

Color me impressed.

Lee - 2-23-2017 at 05:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  
As for old warmonger McCain, getting shot down doesn't make him a hero, nor does sitting in the Hanoi Hilton with hundreds of others just as unlucky.


Wow -- did you serve active duty in a war zone? If not, you don't have a clue as to what defines a hero.

Try this from Webster:
c : a person admired for achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage.

That's John McCain. Not by virtue of serving in the military because not every who serves is a hero. John flew in combat, didn't have to, put his life on the line, when it wasn't necessary, got shot down and tortured (look up the definition of torture), and survived it.

He displayed courage in the face of the enemy, bravery above and beyond the pale.

Civilians (like your prez) defining the qualities of a military hero smells like ingratitude. Sad!

Cliffy - 2-23-2017 at 06:00 PM

OK so we've established that he can be crud and callous. So what?
We can also say that McCain (the Senator) has not been a stellar stalwart of Conservative causes for some time (he is my Senator although I didn't vote for him this time around).

What can be said about McCain of today is that he refused early release from the Hanoi Hilton because of who his father was, a four star of Admiral rank at the time AND his father was also a four star in the Navy (the first father son duo to achieve four star rank). Now I don't agree with McCain of today most of the time nor do I agree with the Presidents assumption either. Everyone has warts. Just some of them are more prominent than others or "called out" more prominently by those with whom they disagree.

It's real easy to cast stones when you are not the public target nor are you willing to accept stones thrown your way without resorting to foul language and discrepant labels.

There will never be a perfect candidate but maybe we need to look beyond the current hysteria and just watch to see what happens. Nothing derogatory has happened yet.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program!

willardguy - 2-23-2017 at 06:32 PM

well see, thats where you made your mistake....you should have asked this on a for real and serious message board....not BajaBlowhards! ;)

motoged - 2-23-2017 at 08:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


4 or 5 months now....and you have it all figured out and feel fully qualified to speak on the attitudes of how Mexicans feel about USA politics?..

Color me impressed.


No, I am not claiming that...just saying that I have experienced a range of conversations about the Trump impact on Mexico and have heard a range of opinions.

Now, how about more stories about Thai hookers....:light:

DaliDali - 2-23-2017 at 08:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


4 or 5 months now....and you have it all figured out and feel fully qualified to speak on the attitudes of how Mexicans feel about USA politics?..

Color me impressed.


No, I am not claiming that...just saying that I have experienced a range of conversations about the Trump impact on Mexico and have heard a range of opinions.

Now, how about more stories about Thai hookers....:light:


Long, lean, silky raven hair, sensuously delicious smooth skin.....alluring, willing, seductive, full girlfriend experience......

Any more and it would get censored......

Next time you have a conversation with a Mexican in Mexico, ask them if their government requires foreign nationals who visit and live in their country, do so legally and with the proper documents.....and when they nod yes they do, ask them what the government of Mexico would do to those foreign nationals if they did not obtain the proper documents to visit or live in Mexico.

I do believe there is a full government apparatus in place right now that exists to see that foreign nationals do the right thing and get the proper documents to live or visit Mexico.
It's talked about on here damn near everyday.....FFM this and PR that....

I just don't see the beef that the USA does the EXACT same thing that every country in the world does........control immigration.....with attendant penalties for not doing it right.

Further more, does anyone think that foreign nationals living in Mexico can live there with impunity, get public funded benefits, get an equivalent of a social security card, a voter card, a driver's license or any other benefits available to legal residents....while living in Mexico contra la lay?

Thousands upon thousands of people flow into the USA annually.
It is absolutely imperative that the USA know who is coming and why and by what means of support they intend to make a go of it on...and above all, entering the right way......with proper documents.
I don't see how doing things the right way is now such a bad thing.

The immigration system of the USA with deportations, fines and jail time is not a new phenom is it?.....ALL past presidents have deported thousands and thousands, jailed criminals, fined people and revoked benefits haven't they?
And work in MX while illegally there?..forget it (although I suppose some jerk gringos do that..and for the record, I hope they are caught and summarily deported)

President Trump has a different "style" and some don't like it....I don't give a rat's axx if they don't like it or not.....it's not a personality game to garner atta boys and so forth......just do the damn job and just enforce the laws that have been on the books for decades.

Is that too much to ask?

Maybe you know?




[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali]

TMW - 2-23-2017 at 09:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  


Ever been shot at, Sparky?:smug:


Interesting question. I have but not in the military.

bajabuddha - 2-23-2017 at 10:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  


Ever been shot at, Sparky?:smug:


Interesting question. I have but not in the military.

So have I out deer hunting when younger... but apples and oranges.... the topic was denigrating McCain for 'getting captured'. Kinda hard to do when shot down in a jet fighter 500 miles behind enemy lines... that in itself is REAL combat. Does that mean every Purple Heart recipient be unceremoniously discredited as tRump did to McCain because they were 'dumb' enough to get injured? He likes people who didn't get shot.
SAD.

JoeJustJoe - 2-24-2017 at 12:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


Now, how about more stories about Thai hookers....:light:[/rquote]

Long, lean, silky raven hair, sensuously delicious smooth skin.....alluring, willing, seductive, full girlfriend experience......

Any more and it would get censored......

Next time you have a conversation with a Mexican in Mexico, ask them if their government requires foreign nationals who visit and live in their country, do so legally and with the proper documents.....and when they nod yes they do, ask them what the government of Mexico would do to those foreign nationals if they did not obtain the proper documents to visit or live in Mexico.

I do believe there is a full government apparatus in place right now that exists to see that foreign nationals do the right thing and get the proper documents to live or visit Mexico.
It's talked about on here damn near everyday.....FFM this and PR that....

I just don't see the beef that the USA does the EXACT same thing that every country in the world does........control immigration.....with attendant penalties for not doing it right.

Further more, does anyone think that foreign nationals living in Mexico can live there with impunity, get public funded benefits, get an equivalent of a social security card, a voter card, a driver's license or any other benefits available to legal residents....while living in Mexico contra la lay?

Thousands upon thousands of people flow into the USA annually.
It is absolutely imperative that the USA know who is coming and why and by what means of support they intend to make a go of it on...and above all, entering the right way......with proper documents.
I don't see how doing things the right way is now such a bad thing.



DaliDali how were you ever able to tell the difference between the ladyboys, and the real girls in Thailand, or did it even matter to you?

I been to Thailand, nice place, but way overcrowded, and you take your life in your own hands just crossing any busy street in the city. But I'm shocked they sent you to secondary when you came back and they looked through your phone, because you say you fit the profile of a sex tourist.

DaliDali, You need to demand a little more respect from US Custom agents. I have never in my life been sent to secondary, and I been to lots of places in the world including Thailand. The customs agent asked if I had family in Thailand, and I just said yes. I also had my girlfriend with me who BTW didn't care for Pattaya at all, but she loved the shopping in Bangkok.

Regarding asking Mexicans about their countries immigration polices. Yes on paper Mexican immigration polices look pretty tough but you and I and everybody else, knows just about anybody could cross the US/Mexico border, and live in Mexico, with or without papers. I know for a fact Rosarito is filled with illegal American aliens living off social security, or permanent workers disability, while they scam the US government with their fake injuries or possibly fake mental conditions. ( some of those Americans ex-pats are really off their rockers!)

Mexico was even offering amnesty to illegal American aliens living in Mexico, but I bet not too many American took advantage of the amnesty offered, because they can't qualify with their low income from a social security check, or they just don't bother.

DaliDali, do you really think Mexico is deporting illegal American aliens in great numbers because they don't have proper papers? That's a laugh, if you believe it, although I understand, one American illegal alien was kicked out of Ensenada last week. Big deal, one person! I also hear the Mexicans do immigration raid in Tijuana's Zona Norte bars, once in awhile, they find some foreign sex workers, from countries like Venezuela, and it's really sad to see a pretty girl being handcuffed and taken away, but even there the Mexican officials claim they are looking for trafficked foreign women, or their handlers. What do you don't hear is Mexican girls, in the bars, complaining, about foreign workers taking away their jobs, like you hear in America.

The difference between Mexico and US immigration polices, which both have historical been very lax, is the US has the jobs and those jobs pay very well compared to the Mexican job market. This makes it very attractive for Mexicans to jump the border and come work in the US, and the US makes it very easy for Mexican undocumented workers, to come to the US and work.

I really don't know what Trump is doing with all this anti-immigration, xenophobia polices. I think he is just playing to his base, and after a while, Trump will get with the program, because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you DaliDali. and your ilk think about US immigration polices. What matters is what big corporations think, and they want and demand cheap foreign labor, and they are going to get their way.

[Edited on 2-24-2017 by JoeJustJoe]

rts551 - 2-24-2017 at 01:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


4 or 5 months now....and you have it all figured out and feel fully qualified to speak on the attitudes of how Mexicans feel about USA politics?..

Color me impressed.


No, I am not claiming that...just saying that I have experienced a range of conversations about the Trump impact on Mexico and have heard a range of opinions.

Now, how about more stories about Thai hookers....:light:


Long, lean, silky raven hair, sensuously delicious smooth skin.....alluring, willing, seductive, full girlfriend experience......

Any more and it would get censored......

Next time you have a conversation with a Mexican in Mexico, ask them if their government requires foreign nationals who visit and live in their country, do so legally and with the proper documents.....and when they nod yes they do, ask them what the government of Mexico would do to those foreign nationals if they did not obtain the proper documents to visit or live in Mexico.

I do believe there is a full government apparatus in place right now that exists to see that foreign nationals do the right thing and get the proper documents to live or visit Mexico.
It's talked about on here damn near everyday.....FFM this and PR that....

I just don't see the beef that the USA does the EXACT same thing that every country in the world does........control immigration.....with attendant penalties for not doing it right.

Further more, does anyone think that foreign nationals living in Mexico can live there with impunity, get public funded benefits, get an equivalent of a social security card, a voter card, a driver's license or any other benefits available to legal residents....while living in Mexico contra la lay?

Thousands upon thousands of people flow into the USA annually.
It is absolutely imperative that the USA know who is coming and why and by what means of support they intend to make a go of it on...and above all, entering the right way......with proper documents.
I don't see how doing things the right way is now such a bad thing.

The immigration system of the USA with deportations, fines and jail time is not a new phenom is it?.....ALL past presidents have deported thousands and thousands, jailed criminals, fined people and revoked benefits haven't they?
And work in MX while illegally there?..forget it (although I suppose some jerk gringos do that..and for the record, I hope they are caught and summarily deported)

President Trump has a different "style" and some don't like it....I don't give a rat's axx if they don't like it or not.....it's not a personality game to garner atta boys and so forth......just do the damn job and just enforce the laws that have been on the books for decades.

Is that too much to ask?

Maybe you know?




[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali]


I think what they do is give them amnesty...oh yes...Mexico has an amnesty program as we speak becasue of the high number of illegals in the country.

DaliDali - 2-24-2017 at 07:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


4 or 5 months now....and you have it all figured out and feel fully qualified to speak on the attitudes of how Mexicans feel about USA politics?..

Color me impressed.


No, I am not claiming that...just saying that I have experienced a range of conversations about the Trump impact on Mexico and have heard a range of opinions.

Now, how about more stories about Thai hookers....:light:


Long, lean, silky raven hair, sensuously delicious smooth skin.....alluring, willing, seductive, full girlfriend experience......

Any more and it would get censored......

Next time you have a conversation with a Mexican in Mexico, ask them if their government requires foreign nationals who visit and live in their country, do so legally and with the proper documents.....and when they nod yes they do, ask them what the government of Mexico would do to those foreign nationals if they did not obtain the proper documents to visit or live in Mexico.

I do believe there is a full government apparatus in place right now that exists to see that foreign nationals do the right thing and get the proper documents to live or visit Mexico.
It's talked about on here damn near everyday.....FFM this and PR that....

I just don't see the beef that the USA does the EXACT same thing that every country in the world does........control immigration.....with attendant penalties for not doing it right.

Further more, does anyone think that foreign nationals living in Mexico can live there with impunity, get public funded benefits, get an equivalent of a social security card, a voter card, a driver's license or any other benefits available to legal residents....while living in Mexico contra la lay?

Thousands upon thousands of people flow into the USA annually.
It is absolutely imperative that the USA know who is coming and why and by what means of support they intend to make a go of it on...and above all, entering the right way......with proper documents.
I don't see how doing things the right way is now such a bad thing.

The immigration system of the USA with deportations, fines and jail time is not a new phenom is it?.....ALL past presidents have deported thousands and thousands, jailed criminals, fined people and revoked benefits haven't they?
And work in MX while illegally there?..forget it (although I suppose some jerk gringos do that..and for the record, I hope they are caught and summarily deported)

President Trump has a different "style" and some don't like it....I don't give a rat's axx if they don't like it or not.....it's not a personality game to garner atta boys and so forth......just do the damn job and just enforce the laws that have been on the books for decades.

Is that too much to ask?

Maybe you know?




[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali]


I think what they do is give them amnesty...oh yes...Mexico has an amnesty program as we speak becasue of the high number of illegals in the country.


Would those foreign nationals living illegally in Mexico and given amnesty, be asked or told to get legal and go visit a local Migra office to do so?

Or detected as illegal, processed with a grant of amnesty and live in Mexico forever more without further ado?

mtgoat666 - 2-24-2017 at 07:13 AM

There is a big moral difference between Mexico deporting undocumented rich retiree gringos that do not have children in country (all gringos in Mexico are rich relative to avg Mexicans), and USA deporting low income Mexicans that have USA citizen children in country.

Retiree gringos don't work, mostly don't participate in community, and don't pay significant taxes in Mexico.

Undocumented Mexican workers in USA are working, paying taxes, and often raising kids and participating in community.

DaliDali - 2-24-2017 at 07:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


Now, how about more stories about Thai hookers....:light:[/rquote]

Long, lean, silky raven hair, sensuously delicious smooth skin.....alluring, willing, seductive, full girlfriend experience......

Any more and it would get censored......

Next time you have a conversation with a Mexican in Mexico, ask them if their government requires foreign nationals who visit and live in their country, do so legally and with the proper documents.....and when they nod yes they do, ask them what the government of Mexico would do to those foreign nationals if they did not obtain the proper documents to visit or live in Mexico.

I do believe there is a full government apparatus in place right now that exists to see that foreign nationals do the right thing and get the proper documents to live or visit Mexico.
It's talked about on here damn near everyday.....FFM this and PR that....

I just don't see the beef that the USA does the EXACT same thing that every country in the world does........control immigration.....with attendant penalties for not doing it right.

Further more, does anyone think that foreign nationals living in Mexico can live there with impunity, get public funded benefits, get an equivalent of a social security card, a voter card, a driver's license or any other benefits available to legal residents....while living in Mexico contra la lay?

Thousands upon thousands of people flow into the USA annually.
It is absolutely imperative that the USA know who is coming and why and by what means of support they intend to make a go of it on...and above all, entering the right way......with proper documents.
I don't see how doing things the right way is now such a bad thing.



DaliDali how were you ever able to tell the difference between the ladyboys, and the real girls in Thailand, or did it even matter to you?

I been to Thailand, nice place, but way overcrowded, and you take your life in your own hands just crossing any busy street in the city. But I'm shocked they sent you to secondary when you came back and they looked through your phone, because you say you fit the profile of a sex tourist.

DaliDali, You need to demand a little more respect from US Custom agents. I have never in my life been sent to secondary, and I been to lots of places in the world including Thailand. The customs agent asked if I had family in Thailand, and I just said yes. I also had my girlfriend with me who BTW didn't care for Pattaya at all, but she loved the shopping in Bangkok.

Regarding asking Mexicans about their countries immigration polices. Yes on paper Mexican immigration polices look pretty tough but you and I and everybody else, knows just about anybody could cross the US/Mexico border, and live in Mexico, with or without papers. I know for a fact Rosarito is filled with illegal American aliens living off social security, or permanent workers disability, while they scam the US government with their fake injuries or possibly fake mental conditions. ( some of those Americans ex-pats are really off their rockers!)

Mexico was even offering amnesty to illegal American aliens living in Mexico, but I bet not too many American took advantage of the amnesty offered, because they can't qualify with their low income from a social security check, or they just don't bother.

DaliDali, do you really think Mexico is deporting illegal American aliens in great numbers because they don't have proper papers? That's a laugh, if you believe it, although I understand, one American illegal alien was kicked out of Ensenada last week. Big deal, one person! I also hear the Mexicans do immigration raid in Tijuana's Zona Norte bars, once in awhile, they find some foreign sex workers, from countries like Venezuela, and it's really sad to see a pretty girl being handcuffed and taken away, but even there the Mexican officials claim they are looking for trafficked foreign women, or their handlers. What do you don't hear is Mexican girls, in the bars, complaining, about foreign workers taking away their jobs, like you hear in America.

The difference between Mexico and US immigration polices, which both have historical been very lax, is the US has the jobs and those jobs pay very well compared to the Mexican job market. This makes it very attractive for Mexicans to jump the border and come work in the US, and the US makes it very easy for Mexican undocumented workers, to come to the US and work.

I really don't know what Trump is doing with all this anti-immigration, xenophobia polices. I think he is just playing to his base, and after a while, Trump will get with the program, because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you DaliDali. and your ilk think about US immigration polices. What matters is what big corporations think, and they want and demand cheap foreign labor, and they are going to get their way.

[Edited on 2-24-2017 by JoeJustJoe]


I don't normally respond to anarchists but in this case I will....

If Mexico wants to allow foreign nationals to live in their country illegally, that is their business.

If the USA does not allow foreign nationals to live there without having done it legally, that is their business.

Just because one country does not enforce their immigration policies as stringently as another, that does not make it a bad thing.

If Mexico had 11 million illegal foreign nationals living in their country and many sucking on their resources (which by the way there is none for illegals) they might sing a different tune.

Mexico holds no moral high ground on their treatment of foreign nationals entering their country illegally.
Mexico thwarts the illegal entry on their southern border with Guatemala with zeal and determined force.

In the end, it's not a bad thing to ask immigrants to do the right thing and if they won't do the right thing, there are consequences.

My "ilk"?.....look in the mirror Goat.

In the end......doing the right thing is not now a bad thing by anyones stretch.

DaliDali - 2-24-2017 at 07:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
There is a big moral difference between Mexico deporting undocumented rich retiree gringos that do not have children in country (all gringos in Mexico are rich relative to avg Mexicans), and USA deporting low income Mexicans that have USA citizen children in country.

Retiree gringos don't work, mostly don't participate in community, and don't pay significant taxes in Mexico.

Undocumented Mexican workers in USA are working, paying taxes, and often raising kids and participating in community.



Regardless of foreign nationals living in Mexico with gobs of money or not, it remains as the LAW that they do so with the proper documents allowing them to live in Mexico.

If Mexican immigration officials turn a blind eye, who's fault is that?
You, as an anarchist, approve of anyone flaunting the law. That's what you do.

Last I heard, the push is to deport criminal illegal aliens and the DACA kids will get pass.
The parents of those DACA kids who are still illegal after all the years of living in the USA, should get legal and there are NO storm troops rounding them up are there?

It's all about doing the right thing and not taking advantage of the host country out of respect for that host countries laws.
If those foreign nationals are living in Rosarito Beach illegally, shame on them and I can only hope they get deported forthwith.

Yes it's true some of those illegals pay some taxes and it's also true that many do not. It is also true that out of the estimated 11 million living illegally in the USA, many are criminals with criminal records who are killing, raping and victimizing innocent people.
Don't be fooled into thinking that all 11 million are the hard working, law abiding sort.

With all the various IRS deductions and credits, it's highly likely that a low income worker is getting money back via the earned income credit and end up getting money back that they never paid in. Backdoor welfare.

And is that now the standard?....pay some taxes and you get a pass on being legal?....only an anarchist like you would agree to that.

By no measure should doing the right thing be turned on it's ear and now become the wrong thing.

Cliffy - 2-24-2017 at 08:04 AM

I'm going to light the fire again-
My previous question still stands as unanswered-

Does any country (anywhere in the world) have the right AND the obligation to its citizens to control its own borders as it sees fit as a sovereign nation?

Why is it no one wants to answer this question?

soulpatch - 2-24-2017 at 08:10 AM

I'll take the bait, Cliffy.

I would say, yes, they do as long as they are complying with their own laws and, also, don't violate international law.

Maybe that is too simple of an answer but, for example, the USA is a nation of laws.

On that note, I want to see who will finally quote so many people at once that their post takes up an entire page all by itself.

A Bit Off Track

Lobsterman - 2-24-2017 at 08:13 AM

There are many people who visit this board that are interested in the observations of people who live in Baja have to say about conditions there. That's why I visit this board almost daily looking for local fishing reports so as to gauge when I'm heading south, i.e. roads, gas, A/C, etc., and of course safety being #1.

I hope in the future BN members provide useful info so that a Wagon Master of a group of novice Baja travelers or family has a means of getting current info on where they are going to ease any concerns one might have.

I thank the few that posted useful info for Cliffy. I've been in his shoes many times in the past being a Wagon Master on numerous fishing trips to Baja. Kinda like being a program manager to find anyone to help pay for my fishing addiction in Baja.

DaliDali - 2-24-2017 at 08:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  
I'm going to light the fire again-
My previous question still stands as unanswered-

Does any country (anywhere in the world) have the right AND the obligation to its citizens to control its own borders as it sees fit as a sovereign nation?

Why is it no one wants to answer this question?


Of course they do Cliffy.....anyone that has an ounce of sense knows this.

DaliDali - 2-24-2017 at 08:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch  
I'll take the bait, Cliffy.

I would say, yes, they do as long as they are complying with their own laws and, also, don't violate international law.

Maybe that is too simple of an answer but, for example, the USA is a nation of laws.

On that note, I want to see who will finally quote so many people at once that their post takes up an entire page all by itself.


I apologize for that....color me guilty as charged.
Sometimes, as you well know, doing the quote thing is necessary for continuity of thoughts....

Saludos

lencho - 2-24-2017 at 09:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  

With all the various IRS deductions and credits, it's highly likely that a low income worker is getting money back via the earned income credit and end up getting money back that they never paid in. Backdoor welfare.

You referring to illegals here? I'd be surprised if many of them are filing tax returns...

David K - 2-24-2017 at 09:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman  
There are many people who visit this board that are interested in the observations of people who live in Baja have to say about conditions there. That's why I visit this board almost daily looking for local fishing reports so as to gauge when I'm heading south, i.e. roads, gas, A/C, etc., and of course safety being #1.

I hope in the future BN members provide useful info so that a Wagon Master of a group of novice Baja travelers or family has a means of getting current info on where they are going to ease any concerns one might have.

I thank the few that posted useful info for Cliffy. I've been in his shoes many times in the past being a Wagon Master on numerous fishing trips to Baja. Kinda like being a program manager to find anyone to help pay for my fishing addiction in Baja.


That is one of the primary benefits of Baja Nomad, and you will find most of that information in the Trip Reports, Road Conditions, and Fishing forums here. Baja Q & A (this forum of Baja Nomad) was hardly made for political debate.

Cliffy - 2-24-2017 at 09:38 AM

If "anyone with an ounce of sense knows this" why have none of the liberal thinkers on here spouting their diatribe against me and the current administrations immigration stand, in this thread, chimed in with their commentary on the question in front of the "court"?

Could it be they have nothing to back up their diatribe with except for derogatory labels and name calling? Or maybe it IS a case of anarchy in its truest definition. The anathema of all civilized countries. Maybe some need to return to the days of the Visigoths and Huns.

Funny how enforcing laws already on the books for years and enforced by previous administrations, elicits such a visceral reaction in some.

I just asked in my OP for some current information that I could pass along and it has gone on now for almost 4 pages. I guess its hard for some to stay "on point".

I do thank those who have given me what I need for the other folks.

DaliDali - 2-24-2017 at 10:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  
If "anyone with an ounce of sense knows this" why have none of the liberal thinkers on here spouting their diatribe against me and the current administrations immigration stand, in this thread, chimed in with their commentary on the question in front of the "court"?

Could it be they have nothing to back up their diatribe with except for derogatory labels and name calling? Or maybe it IS a case of anarchy in its truest definition. The anathema of all civilized countries. Maybe some need to return to the days of the Visigoths and Huns.

Funny how enforcing laws already on the books for years and enforced by previous administrations, elicits such a visceral reaction in some.

I just asked in my OP for some current information that I could pass along and it has gone on now for almost 4 pages. I guess its hard for some to stay "on point".

I do thank those who have given me what I need for the other folks.


It is of my opinion that all the hubbub is not about the law or the right thing to do, taxes, criminals and all that...it's about Donald Trump. They just don't like his "style".....the poor snowflakes.....

These same people doing the whining and caterwauling are Trump opposers, no matter what he said or does.
He could have appointed Mother Teresa as Sec of State and these same whiners would scream she is unfit.....not because she is or isn't, but solely because a man named Trump appointed her.

AKgringo - 2-24-2017 at 10:09 AM

It's kind of like being a kid, and listening to the parents fight isn't it? Sadly, I don't think they will be able to reconcile, or get on with life without each other!

I wish I could offer a current opinion on the mood in Puerto Penasco, but I haven't been there in fifteen years. I would kind of like to go back and see how things have developed, and would have no worries about doing so.

Looking forward to your trip report Cliffy!

sancho - 2-24-2017 at 10:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  
If "anyone with an ounce of sense knows this" why have none of the liberal thinkers on here spouting their diatribe against me and the current administrations immigration stand









I'm one of those liberals, I think your ? is very appropriate. On
the trip reports, the off road jeep group recent post, there I'd
a pic of some banners hanging from buildings, in I assume
Mexicali, with the current US pres name. I didn't translate the
wording, one can only assume it is not a positive opinion.
I would think concern is a legit ?, especially for non seasoned
Baja travellers




rts551 - 2-24-2017 at 03:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  


Put the shoe of the other foot, and lets say Mexico elected an American hating President, who called Americans rapists and criminals, and vowed to deport all the illegally aliens Americans back to the US.



And the problem with deporting illegal Americans is what?...

Does Mexico or does Mexico not require foreign national tourists and residents to be legal, get legal or face the consequences when discovered?

Sounds EXACTLY like what the USA does and is doing....right?

[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali]


Unfortunately I responded to the EXACTLY and consequences part.....(after responding directly to the question).....and it took a life on of its own after that. Point was you can not compare the two policies. Mexico is much more liberal and lax in their control of the border.

rts551 - 2-24-2017 at 03:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  
If "anyone with an ounce of sense knows this" why have none of the liberal thinkers on here spouting their diatribe against me and the current administrations immigration stand, in this thread, chimed in with their commentary on the question in front of the "court"?

Could it be they have nothing to back up their diatribe with except for derogatory labels and name calling? Or maybe it IS a case of anarchy in its truest definition. The anathema of all civilized countries. Maybe some need to return to the days of the Visigoths and Huns.

Funny how enforcing laws already on the books for years and enforced by previous administrations, elicits such a visceral reaction in some.

I just asked in my OP for some current information that I could pass along and it has gone on now for almost 4 pages. I guess its hard for some to stay "on point".

I do thank those who have given me what I need for the other folks.


I answered your original question Cliffy. I guess some did not like the answer.

Bubba - 2-24-2017 at 03:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  

With all the various IRS deductions and credits, it's highly likely that a low income worker is getting money back via the earned income credit and end up getting money back that they never paid in. Backdoor welfare.

You referring to illegals here? I'd be surprised if many of them are filing tax returns...


They're not, they are working under the table and sending a large percentage of the untaxed money back to Mexico.

Cliffy and DaliDali

soulpatch - 2-24-2017 at 05:22 PM

Sorry, no massive and repetitive quote box here.

I'm pretty flocking liberal.... sorry I disappointed you both with no diatribe.
I prefer dialog over rancor.

And, if you think calling me a snowflake is an insult, think again.... I'd rather be unique than a lemming.
Not that I am calling either of you lemmings, but I am sure you can understand the reference to marching lockstep.

Anyway, have fun with your reticent friends.. I am changing my advice.... please tell them to stay home.... Mexico is not for wimps.

Peace.
:coolup:

JoeJustJoe - 2-24-2017 at 05:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  



I just asked in my OP for some current information that I could pass along and it has gone on now for almost 4 pages. I guess its hard for some to stay "on point".

I do thank those who have given me what I need for the other folks.


I erased all the liberal bashing from your post Cliffy, and will just focus on the topic of this thread, which is, "IS MEXICO SAFE" and all it's variations. The variation here is, "are the Mexicans going to hate me, because of the election of Trump?" Oh That's right, Cliffy, it's not that you are scared, it's your friends, who are scared.

So what did you really get out of this thread Cliffy?

Is Mexico safe, even under the conditions of a Trump Presidency? Cliffy, can you now guarantee your traveling friend's safety, because a few Nomads, put their fingers in the air, and decided Mexico is safe even with the election of Trump? Of course in a large forum there are always a few who perhaps decide, Mexico is a war zone, and you should stay away, if you want to live.

At best you are getting anecdotal information from them.

Did you know Cliffy, there are many members of "Baja Nomad" with a vested interest in Mexico/Baja tourism, and they have been known to overlook the dangers of Mexico, because they want to promote tourism?

Did you also know there are Mexico/Baja "alarmists" and Mexico haters, who sound the danger alarm whenever there is any negative story in the newspapers, travel boards, and on Mexico/Baja social media sites?

I would stick to the US state department warnings, before I woud turn to anonymous sources on travel boards with possible agendas. Then again, even US state department, or other countries Travel alert warnings, could be political motivated, and they have been in the past.

For example, lets say Mexico decided to ban US corn because of the US immigration polices, I could easily see Trump, ordering the US State Department personnel to issue travel warnings to the whole country of Mexico, in order to retaliate against Mexico and Mexican tourism.

I personally believe Mexico is always safe, and millions of Americans visit Mexico ever year, and have the time of their life. This is not going to change just because the US elected a clown as President.



DaliDali - 2-24-2017 at 05:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch  
Sorry, no massive and repetitive quote box here.

I'm pretty flocking liberal.... sorry I disappointed you both with no diatribe.
I prefer dialog over rancor.

And, if you think calling me a snowflake is an insult, think again.... I'd rather be unique than a lemming.
Not that I am calling either of you lemmings, but I am sure you can understand the reference to marching lockstep.

Anyway, have fun with your reticent friends.. I am changing my advice.... please tell them to stay home.... Mexico is not for wimps.

Peace.
:coolup:



I apologize to you if you had ideas I was refering to you and you only as a snowflake....
Sorta kinda like your tepid reference to anyone who is a conservative, a lemming...

soulpatch - 2-24-2017 at 05:53 PM

Jajaja, no sweat... I am not above poking a bit.
You don't strike as the thin-skinned type.

No, I just find it amusing when these labels that are meant to demean do no such thing.

You can pretty much call me anything in the book and it won't hurt my feeling.

Christ Almighty, what happened to this thread? And when did the word poosies get changed to wimps?

No hard feeling(s).

It's a beautiful evening on Bahia de Banderas.

I have ribs to BBQ now and a few cold ones to drink.
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch  
Sorry, no massive and repetitive quote box here.

I'm pretty flocking liberal.... sorry I disappointed you both with no diatribe.
I prefer dialog over rancor.

And, if you think calling me a snowflake is an insult, think again.... I'd rather be unique than a lemming.
Not that I am calling either of you lemmings, but I am sure you can understand the reference to marching lockstep.

Anyway, have fun with your reticent friends.. I am changing my advice.... please tell them to stay home.... Mexico is not for wimps.

Peace.
:coolup:



I apologize to you if you had ideas I was refering to you and you only as a snowflake....
Sorta kinda like your tepid reference to anyone who is a conservative, a lemming...

JoeJustJoe - 2-24-2017 at 06:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  




Regardless of foreign nationals living in Mexico with gobs of money or not, it remains as the LAW that they do so with the proper documents allowing them to live in Mexico.

If Mexican immigration officials turn a blind eye, who's fault is that?
You, as an anarchist, approve of anyone flaunting the law. That's what you do.

Last I heard, the push is to deport criminal illegal aliens and the DACA kids will get pass.
The parents of those DACA kids who are still illegal after all the years of living in the USA, should get legal and there are NO storm troops rounding them up are there?

It's all about doing the right thing and not taking advantage of the host country out of respect for that host countries laws.
If those foreign nationals are living in Rosarito Beach illegally, shame on them and I can only hope they get deported forthwith.

Yes it's true some of those illegals pay some taxes and it's also true that many do not. It is also true that out of the estimated 11 million living illegally in the USA, many are criminals with criminal records who are killing, raping and victimizing innocent people.
Don't be fooled into thinking that all 11 million are the hard working, law abiding sort.

With all the various IRS deductions and credits, it's highly likely that a low income worker is getting money back via the earned income credit and end up getting money back that they never paid in. Backdoor welfare.

And is that now the standard?....pay some taxes and you get a pass on being legal?....only an anarchist like you would agree to that.

By no measure should doing the right thing be turned on it's ear and now become the wrong thing.


Your augments are weak DaliDali.

First you were saying Mexico like the USA has tough immigration standards even to US citizens, but when you learn Mexico immigration standards as as porous as swiss cheese, and anybody could just walk over the border and pretty much live in Mexico with no problems.

So now you change your argument, and say you don't care what other countries like Mexico do with their immigration polices, and the US is a nation of law, or similar BS.

Get off your high horse DaliDail, nobody cares what you think. The US borders are porous for a reason, America loves cheap labor, and immigrants have alway been a net gain to the USA, especially looking at it from a federal level. Even if undocumented immigrants don't pay federal taxes like 47% of other Americans, they still pay those taxes indirectly through rent, and every time they visit the stores.

Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for earned income credits, Social Security, or Medicare.

We need to open the borders for easy access like in Europe. I'm amazed that if I still had a Mexican girlfriend, I could easily take her on vacation with me to Disneyland, in Paris, but I couldn't take her to the Disneyland in Anaheim Ca, without filling out much paperwork, and waiting in lines that could take years. ,

Cliffy - 2-24-2017 at 07:50 PM

This has really been an interesting journey for a few days. I ask a simple question to be able to print off the answers from those who's opinions I generally respect- those on this forum and I get a diatribe pointed at me, my motives, my political bent and even my integrity. WOW! I thought only whirlpools went down the drain in circles. Look where this thread went!

I don't mind any "conversation" about politics. I do take umbrage with name calling, labeling and curt expressions. If you can't support or express your position with facts but have to depend on name calling and vicious labeling, then I'm out of the conversation.

Support your position with facts or stay silent. Leave everyone guessing about your intelligence rather than confirm their suppositions.

Some of us really do want to hear the other side of the equation but will not condone slanderous language.

lencho - 2-24-2017 at 08:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
They're not, they are working under the table and sending a large percentage of the untaxed money back to Mexico.


Isn't that illegal?

To employ people under the table like that? :?:

mtgoat666 - 2-24-2017 at 08:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
They're not, they are working under the table and sending a large percentage of the untaxed money back to Mexico.


Isn't that illegal?

To employ people under the table like that? :?:


The GOP believes that the employer should be rewarded with a tax cut, and the employee should be deported by jack-booted thugs.

Seriously, the GOP solution is to turn a blind eye to illegal acts of employers, and to penalize the employee by deporting.

Cliffy - 2-24-2017 at 08:14 PM

"jack-booted thugs."
Again with the name calling. Why can't you discuss something without resorting to name calling? Is it beyond you to hold a normal conversation? Have you no education or manners? Do you really think anyone will listen to you with that attitude? I just ignore your position until you speak in a respectful manner. If you don't, you don't exist as far as I'm concerned. You'll never change any minds with that kind of language

mtgoat666 - 2-24-2017 at 08:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  
"jack-booted thugs."
Again with the name calling. Why can't you discuss something without resorting to name calling? Is it beyond you to hold a normal conversation? Have you no education or manners? Do you really think anyone will listen to you with that attitude? I just ignore your position until you speak in a respectful manner. If you don't, you don't exist as far as I'm concerned. You'll never change any minds with that kind of language


I've witnessed raids/deportations. It can only be described as thuggery. Open your eyes.

LancairDriver - 2-24-2017 at 09:50 PM


As a long time employer with businesses in CA and OR I can attest to the fact that there are very stiff penalties for hiring an illegal on both the federal and state level. I can't understand how any employer could get around the system as it is their responsibility to prove they have verified all the potential employees documentation and it is hardly worth exposing themselves to very large fines and even lawsuits from the illegal employee in the event of injury. As for paying under the table without deducting the required taxes, an employer would be paying taxes out of their own pocket from their profit and in fact self insuring the illegal personally, which could result in bankruptcy in case of injury without Workmen's comp insurance. The average homeowner trying to get an odd job done using undocumented workers either doesn't understand the potential risks or foolishly chances it. I recall a couple of potential Clinton judicial appointees were forced to withdraw from consideration for employing undocumented domestic workers. I understand it is a huge problem in the country but it is a mystery how it can be that large with stiff penalties for hiring illegals. This has continued under both Democratic and Republican administrations.
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
They're not, they are working under the table and sending a large percentage of the untaxed money back to Mexico.


Isn't that illegal?

To employ people under the table like that? :?:


The GOP believes that the employer should be rewarded with a tax cut, and the employee should be deported by jack-booted thugs.

Seriously, the GOP solution is to turn a blind eye to illegal acts of employers, and to penalize the employee by deporting.

lencho - 2-24-2017 at 11:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  
I understand it is a huge problem in the country but it is a mystery how it can be that large with stiff penalties for hiring illegals.

Must be a huge money-maker for the employers to justify that risk. Or maybe the risk of getting caught isn't much of a concern.

JoeJustJoe - 2-25-2017 at 12:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  
"jack-booted thugs."
Again with the name calling. Why can't you discuss something without resorting to name calling? Is it beyond you to hold a normal conversation? Have you no education or manners? Do you really think anyone will listen to you with that attitude? I just ignore your position until you speak in a respectful manner. If you don't, you don't exist as far as I'm concerned. You'll never change any minds with that kind of language


Cliffy, you are starting to whine a little bit too much. Let me remind you that it you who started a very controversial topic, on a nonexistent problem of Mexico or Mexicans retaliating against US expats or tourists, because of Trump's immigration polices.

Your topic is just a variation of similar topic started over a week ago, titled, " Mexico to retaliate against U.S expats" which was pure BS, and fake news found on some obscure blog, and then re-posted here.

What happened Cliffy, didn't you get your answer in that thread, that ended in heated exchanges, and finally closed?

You can't start a thread about Trump, and his draconian immigration polices without the discussion becoming heated. If you can't stand the heat Cliffy, then stay out of the kitchen.

BTW, to believe Mexicans are going to retaliate against Americans in Mexico, because of a US President, or his immigration polices, is pretty insulting to many if not most Mexicans.
_______________________________
Here is another thread of the same topic that got so heated it had to be closed down:

Mexico to retaliate against U.S. expats?

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=85697

[Edited on 2-25-2017 by JoeJustJoe]

Lobsterman - 2-25-2017 at 07:39 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  


The GOP believes that the employer should be rewarded with a tax cut, and the employee should be deported by jack-booted thugs.

Seriously, the GOP solution is to turn a blind eye to illegal acts of employers, and to penalize the employee by deporting.



Watch what you ask for Goat.

National Identity Cards and fines and/or jail time for employers of illegals is just around the corner. That one act alone by the DOJ will do more for stemming illegal immigration into our country than any other single enforcement policy. Without a job and/or social benefits many illegals will head north to Canada or head home. A very easy solution to help eliminate our immigration problem. Along with the Wall, extraction teams, enforcement of immigration law, intelligence, additional manpower and modern technology will soon close the other gaps in our immigration policies.

Mexico and other countries were smart to enforce and protect their borders of illegals from day one. The USA on the other hand has not because one side wants more voters and the other side wants slave labor to make their widgets or clean their rooms. We all know now what the silent majority in the USA wants and will soon get.

JoeJustJoe - 2-25-2017 at 10:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  
I understand it is a huge problem in the country but it is a mystery how it can be that large with stiff penalties for hiring illegals.

Must be a huge money-maker for the employers to justify that risk. Or maybe the risk of getting caught isn't much of a concern.


Ha that funny employers taking risks for hiring undocumented Mexican workers.

The Goat is right, the only ones who end up with the short end of the stick are the Mexican undocumented employees who get deported without collecting their last paychecks.

The employers almost always get away with their crimes, and if caught will get a slap on the wrist, and pay a paltry fine of between $250 to $2000, but in reality the majority of employers don't get caught, and if you look at the history of fines with both the Bush and Obama, administrations, the combined fines of one year, barely added up to about $1 million dollars nationwide, and that's nothing nationwide for a whole year.

If you remember a few years ago, Bush's border patrol was cracking down at bus stops, and restaurants. Obama, was named the "deporter in Chief" because he deported more undocumented Mexican workers, that Bush, but both Bush and Obama, really didn't go after the employers. In fact I think the employers were offered amnesty too under Obama.

The current laws on the book are virtually unenforceable, because the employer doesn't really have to verify if the documents presented by the worker are authentic or not, and if they look pretty good, the Mexican worker gets hired.

It's not like the employers have to use the he E-Verify system, and thanks both the Republicans and Democrats in both houses, I doubt the E-Verify system, or what Lobsterman, is talking about will ever be the law of the land.

You are sadly mistaken if you think things will change that much with Trump, although I'm sure he will talk tough.





[Edited on 2-25-2017 by JoeJustJoe]

Cliffy - 2-25-2017 at 11:27 AM

Sometimes a question is just that- only a question with no underlying intent to deceive.

Uncharacteristically to some, I too agree that if you stop the jobs you stop the illegal immigration. Now, how to fill those jobs legally is the question.

As I stated a LONG time ago, I'm not a fan of either party because of their duplicitous ways. They both lie and their leaders lie outright to the American public. This can be proven with facts. Harry Reid on Romney taxes and McConnell to Ted Cruz.

AKgringo - 2-25-2017 at 12:11 PM

I haven't been to Rocky Point in fifteen years....I wonder what is going to happen to the local climate and sea level in the era of Trump?

That should be good for another five pages! I don't think Cliffy is going to get anymore useful information for his friends, so let's move on!

motoged - 2-26-2017 at 08:50 AM

The question originally related to relationship issues between USA citizens and Mexicans in Mexico (Baja).

Trump, The Great Uniter, seems to be a conversation topic that creates significant friction even amongst US folks...and it might appear that their own relationships are at risk of conflict....bringing out value differences previously flying somewhat under the radar.

My observations while in Baja over past several months is that Mexicans seem more willing to discuss the issues than Americans in some settings....and am hearing often enough that they (USA citizens) are reluctant to discuss the important political/social issues surrounding the new "presidency" out of fear of the potential conflict.

So, "Americans" may be more at risk of conflict ("danger") with each other than with Mexican nationals.

SAD:no:



[Edited on 2-26-2017 by motoged]