BajaNomad

Medical Treatment Education - Camping/Baja....

TLBaja79 - 2-26-2018 at 07:50 PM

Does anybody know the best book/class/site for 'baja related' medical treatment.
Camping medical is more than just the regular first aid that is readily available.
Also medical treatment such as scorpion, snake bites....etc...

Any known courses, classes, books, etc....that are more than the standard first aid

woody with a view - 2-26-2018 at 09:42 PM

Scorpions are no big deal unless shock sets in. Snakes bites are another story. Haul ass to the nearest US hospital for antivenom. Can never get an answer on availability down south. Take an EMT course for more than first aid.

DanO - 2-26-2018 at 10:53 PM

Friend of mine who's a doc never travels down south without a suture kit. I would too, but I'm terrible at sewing.

4x4abc - 2-26-2018 at 11:39 PM

learn more about the threats, learn how they live, how they behave
then adjust your life, if necessary, to avoid contact

I have been camping in Baja for 30 years
sleep on the ground, tent only when it rains
traffic on the paved roads has been proven to be the most dangerous time so far

Snakes avoid humans whenever possible, as long as they can feel your footsteps shaking the ground (from their perspective), they will run and hide.
You are way too big for them to eat. They focus on little critters. You will run only into them when you sneak around the bushes and when it is cold in the morning. They do not like tents. The smell is very foreign to them. Or would you volunteer to sleep in a pig sty (the one with real pigs in them)?
I have never been bit, so no first hand advice. Fellow travelers have and a toxin vacuum pump (yellow box from France) has shown amazing results. I have read though that they are supposed to be ineffective. I have seen with my own eyes that they made a big difference.

Scorpions hunt even smaller critters. Usually live under the rocks or in wood piles (careful when collecting firewood - for that reason I never carry firewood in my car). Almost every morning I would find scorpions under my protective tarp (first layer on the ground). Always under the first sheet. Never in between. Never in my bed. I use a real down comforter instead of a sleeping bag.
Scorpions are night active. When I got a little too comfortable with Baja, I would go barefoot at night through the warm sand. Bad! Scorpions don't like it when you step on them. They hit you pretty good. The pain is like a bee sting and lasts about 30 minutes. The next 24 hours are like you are on a mild drug. Not bad!
Treat the sting with antibiotic creme as infections in Baja can be life threatening.

On occasion you will see Tarantulas running around in Baja. They very much mind their own business. They are very gently creatures. I pick them up and have them run all over my body (just to freak out folks that might be traveling with me).
Should they ever bite you, only the possible infection will be a threat.

Ravens and coyotes can be life threatening, because they have learned how our water containers look like. They will destroy them to get to the water and leave you with nothing. Now that can get very dangerous in Baja.

A very much underestimated danger are sting rays. They don't kill you, but the pain is beyond anything you have ever encountered. And the pain increases over time instead of decreasing. Hot water (as hot as you can stand it without burning your skin) will break up the protein based toxin. Without experience, I would highly recommend driving to the nearest hospital. They know what to do.
You kinda avoid sting rays by shuffling into the water like a very old person. With that you'll kick the sting ray into its side and they swim away. If you step on them, they will sting you.

And then there are the constant attacks by Cholla cactus. Not life threatening, but the pain is long lasting. They are everywhere. Like guns in the US - no way to avoid them. They will get you one day.

Danger #1 - fear itself. So, make yourself familiar with what's around you.


To deal with broken bones, heart attacks etc I highly recommend a wilderness emergency training. https://aeriemedicine.com/course/semester-in-wilderness-medi...



[Edited on 3-3-2018 by BajaNomad]

BajaMama - 2-27-2018 at 06:25 AM

I can verify that soaking your foot in REALLY hot water works for sting ray stings. :D BUT make sure you keep an eye on the wound for barbs which can cause a nasty infection.

[Edited on 2-27-2018 by BajaMama]

bajapedro - 2-27-2018 at 07:16 AM

Usually travel down with disposable suture tray, suture, skin glue, lidocaine, steroid and epi for injection. Have basic splinting supplies such as plaster roll, web roll and ace wraps should an injury occur.
Along with that , basic first aid supplies and antibiotic for oral and topical use. Keep all in 10"x10" x6" soft pack in rzr. Having some motrin or tylenol is also good idea along with splinter forceps.
REI sells a wilderness first aid kit that is small but fairly complete and offers books for instruction on wilderness medicine.
Only had to suture once, but like the security of having ability to deal with small issues. Mostly just inject joints of my arthritic friends who overdo their knee and shoulders.

SunDevil - 2-27-2018 at 07:40 AM

My advice is to use the internet to keep up with the latest advice on avoiding common threats, and know how to treat the things you might have to deal with.

Lots of people recommend the 'stingray shuffle' but we have better luck by not swimming where you are likely to get stung. We like to avoid gradual dropoffs where you can walk several yards out and still stand on the bottom. The quicker your feet are off the bottom the less likely you are to get stung.

It's easy to avoid scorpions. They aren't running around looking for someone to sting. Common sense things like shaking out your clothes and boots in the morning are about all anyone needs to know.

Jellyfish are harder to avoid. Some people wear a rash guard and the time of year when the larvae are everywhere that helps. Hot water works for this just like it does for stingrays. The water doesn't need to be too hot, use common sense. A hot washcloth can be used on hard to soak places like your shoulder and back.

Hemostats are good for removing cactus stickers. If you have dogs you will be using these a lot.

Dial it back a little when you are doing risky things and the closest hospital is who knows where.

Little cuts and bruises are what you will have to deal with. Take twice the amount of bandaids and antibiotic ointment you think you'll need.

Go to Costco and get the big double pack of Immodium. Don't forget the baby wipes, nothing ruins your day faster than a sore bottom.

Finally, resist the urge to run barefoot on the beach. You aren't auditioning for the remake of '10' or 'Chariots of Fire'.

Paco Facullo - 2-27-2018 at 08:34 AM

I can attest to the severe pain that a stingray can inflict ..

I've had personal experience while swimming at Blacks beach in San Diego.
I would tell the story but it would not be appropriate on a public forum, best around a fire with a few drinks behind us....

And yes, the hottest water you can stand helps. only problem at Blacks beach is hot water is a looooong way away...

soylent_green - 2-27-2018 at 09:20 AM

I took a "Wilderness First Responder" class last year. 9 days long straight, 12 plus hours a day. More than half the group were studying to be EMTs. Certification for medical treatment for wilderness guides, etc

Tough. Dragging bodies on the beach, crazy scenarios. I got less sleep in those 9 days than I can remember.

Local community college offered it. Private organizations usually offer it.

There are other levels with less training, but honestly after 9 days and being certified, you just touch the edges of how to act in emergency situations hours from medical treatment.

What I learned about snake bites: almost always it happens to drunk males 24 years old or younger.

Interesting thing I learned and didnt realize what to look for on extended multiple day trips: people who won't poop in the woods. Messes people up

https://www.wildmed.com

Paco Facullo - 2-27-2018 at 09:54 AM

Soylent, I do so have to agree with you,

The Bung-Hole is the boss of you're body. If it ain't happy you certainly won't be, as well...

If not going or going too much, both are a BIG problem...

[Edited on 2-27-2018 by Paco Facullo]

4x4abc - 2-27-2018 at 10:48 AM

about avoiding sting rays - don't go in the water

sting rays prefer the same beaches we like - warm and sandy
but you'll find them also on rocky beaches (no shuffling possible on rocky beaches)
sooner or later they'll get you

I haven't had any encounter for my first 15 years in Baja
did not even know they were a threat
since then they got me 3 times
and many of my friends

paradise has a price

about the WFR or EMT training (I recommend Aerie in Costa Rica)
I have done them to be prepared to help others
BUT - you need to refresh almost every year (you'll forget really fast if you don't use your skills every day)

bajabuddha - 2-27-2018 at 11:29 AM

Jellyfish were mentioned; here's a tip that really works: AMMONIA. There was a bloom of thimble jellies in Concepcion years back; I bought a bottle of industrial ammonia from a hardware store in Sta. Rosalia, mixed it about one part with five parts water in a spray bottle and hung it on the back of my trailer; told all the campers where it was and if they got stung from swimming/snorkeling to help themselves to it. My better half is a water-baby, and she used it several times..... really works. Cheap, effective, and quicker than heating water.

TMW - 2-27-2018 at 11:52 AM

A good book you may want to consider having is "The Outward Bound, Wilderness First-Aid Handbook" by Jeffery Isaac, P.A.-C.

TMW - 2-27-2018 at 11:57 AM

On a recent Running Wild with Bear Grylls show a female guest (I forget her name) peed on his hand after he got stung by a jellyfish, he said it works.

David K - 2-27-2018 at 01:12 PM

Jellyfish = ammonia/ (pee)
Stingray = hot water soaking
poison insect stings, cactus thorns = tea tree oil

Speaking of cholla... Here are some classic photos of Neal Johns helping David Eidell back in 2001, south of Las Flores during our lost mission hunt...











[Edited on 2-27-2018 by David K]

caj13 - 2-27-2018 at 01:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DanO  
Friend of mine who's a doc never travels down south without a suture kit. I would too, but I'm terrible at sewing.


at one point Cabellas actually sold a staple gun kit for sutureing in emergencies, I'm still peeed off i didn't buy one, they seem to have disapeared!
Military and most ERs prefer to use superglue nowdays instead of sutures, just carry an unpoened tube of superglue!

I bet you could get away with this - cheap and sterile! https://www.allvetsupply.com/diskst35r.html?cmp=googleproduc...

looks like they are all over Amazon for cheap, I'm gunna order one up today.


[Edited on 2-27-2018 by caj13]

[Edited on 2-27-2018 by caj13]

[Edited on 2-27-2018 by caj13]

bajabuddha - 2-27-2018 at 01:20 PM

Here's one for cactus I've done many times as well: ELMER'S GLUE. Tweeze larger spines, but for the small furry ones pour liberally over the afflicted area and let dry; then 'wax' them off. Some say duct tape does as well, but it has to be pushed down, which sets spines in deeper. Patience for the glue to dry is a must, but it works very well.

DanO - 2-27-2018 at 04:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
Here's one for cactus I've done many times as well: ELMER'S GLUE. Tweeze larger spines, but for the small furry ones pour liberally over the afflicted area and let dry; then 'wax' them off. Some say duct tape does as well, but it has to be pushed down, which sets spines in deeper. Patience for the glue to dry is a must, but it works very well.
THIS is a great idea. You learn something every day.

Paco Facullo - 2-27-2018 at 06:10 PM

If using super glue and want an almost instant set , apply baking soda to it.