BajaNomad - Palm Tree In Bahia Concepcion

You're a troublemaker. What fun!

That's what a few teachers told me.... :biggrin:

ncampion - 6-13-2018 at 04:47 PM

In 2006, Al Gore predicted a 20-foot increase in sea level "in the near future" with the melting or breakoff of Greenland or Antarctica (An Inconvenient Truth: p. 196). Twelve pages follow (pp. 198–209) with glossy photographs showing major areas under water: from southern Florida to San Francisco to Manhattan. Not happening! Latest measurements by actual scientists show sea levels seem to be rising at maybe three millimetres per year. Twenty feet is over six thousand millimetres, so at this rate, we wouldn’t even be halfway by the year 3017.

caj13 - 6-13-2018 at 05:59 PM

In 2006, Al Gore predicted a 20-foot increase in sea level "in the near future" with the melting or breakoff of Greenland or Antarctica (An Inconvenient Truth: p. 196). Twelve pages follow (pp. 198–209) with glossy photographs showing major areas under water: from southern Florida to San Francisco to Manhattan. Not happening! Latest measurements by actual scientists show sea levels seem to be rising at maybe three millimetres per year. Twenty feet is over six thousand millimetres, so at this rate, we wouldn’t even be halfway by the year 3017.

Nice to know we have a climatologist with 20 ? some years of schooling, backed by multiple super computers who is sure we have nothing to worry about! Thanks campion, your vast knowledge and education allows you to make predictions that all of the other climate scientists (not funded by big oil) are missing!

TMW - 6-13-2018 at 06:28 PM

It must be pretty slow, David's tree is still not under water and that's been 60 years.

ncampion - 6-13-2018 at 07:46 PM

You're welcome, just trying to do my part to educate the ignorant.

DaliDali - 6-14-2018 at 07:23 PM

Dang it all anyway......and I was about to toss my cute white rubber boots in the trash.......I was fully expecting the launch ramp would be inundated for sure.....beyond the super tides/blue moon tides.
Lo lamento.......it's still the same in and out with the tides and has been since Christ was a corporal.....

Oh well

Skipjack Joe - 6-14-2018 at 10:07 PM

You're a troublemaker. What fun!

Just watched a video about how North Atlantic Newfoundland fishermen are making a living now, since they have fished the place out. They're taking tourists out to see icebergs.

They won't be making a living from that either.

BajaTed - 6-15-2018 at 08:54 AM

I'm just grateful I got to know the palm tree.
Sitting by it and watching the sun rise is different somehow.
I thought once I saw a time travel worm tube from another galaxy by the hot tub

Palms in Davids neighborhood

Stickers - 6-15-2018 at 09:00 AM

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06/14/king-tides-topple-pal...

DaliDali - 6-15-2018 at 09:00 AM

As compared with government/privately funded scientists who live and breathe everyday on the grants they get?
No climate change......NO grant money.

Bingo

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by DaliDali]

bezzell - 6-15-2018 at 09:32 AM

As compared with government/privately funded scientists who live and breathe everyday on the grants they get?
No climate change......NO grant money.

Bingo

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by DaliDali]

you can deny gravity all you want ... but the apple will still hit you on the head.

ignorance is bliss I guess

grizzlyfsh95 - 6-15-2018 at 09:53 AM

As compared with government/privately funded scientists who live and breathe everyday on the grants they get?
No climate change......NO grant money.

Bingo

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by DaliDali]

you can deny gravity all you want ... but the apple will still hit you on the head.

Naivety is bliss in the case of the alarmists.

ignorance is bliss I guess

bezzell - 6-15-2018 at 10:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95

As compared with government/privately funded scientists who live and breathe everyday on the grants they get?
No climate change......NO grant money.

Bingo

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by DaliDali]

you can deny gravity all you want ... but the apple will still hit you on the head.

Naivety is bliss in the case of the alarmists.

ignorance is bliss I guess

you're refuting the referee journal b/c of what you hear on fox news
you folks are a joke. sorry

bezzell - 6-15-2018 at 10:52 AM

Latest measurements by actual scientists show sea levels seem to be rising at maybe three millimetres per year. Twenty feet is over six thousand millimetres, so at this rate, we wouldn’t even be halfway by the year 3017.

3mm /yr ?? you understand how much extra water that would actually be? (even after factoring in expansion due to heating? holy guacamole!!)

but regardless ... ignorance of the exponential function will be a contributing factor to habitats' collapse.

ni modo

LancairDriver - 6-15-2018 at 11:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95

As compared with government/privately funded scientists who live and breathe everyday on the grants they get?
No climate change......NO grant money.

Bingo

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by DaliDali]

you can deny gravity all you want ... but the apple will still hit you on the head.

Naivety is bliss in the case of the alarmists.

ignorance is bliss I guess

you're refuting the referee journal b/c of what you hear on fox news
you folks are a joke. sorry

Spoken as a solid member of the herd of sheep blindly drinking Al Gores Kool aid. In spite of all the cute comments on DK’s palm tree, which offers more visible evidence refuting ocean level rise than any example presented by the climate experts here, I haven’t heard one explanation other than the earth plates shifting comment to push the palm tree up and keep it high and dry.

SFandH - 6-15-2018 at 11:16 AM

It seems a lot of people don't understand that significant sea level rise is a prediction for the future based upon the continued burning of fossil fuels in increasing amounts and the subsequent warming of the atmosphere and oceans. To date, the rise has been small but it will accelerate and problems are beginning to appear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1dnlHPzhQA

And there are examples of coastal communities that have existed for a long time that are now in peril. Currently, there are coastal communities in Alaska that are disappearing. Google it.

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by SFandH]

motoged - 6-15-2018 at 12:17 PM

Climate change can have a myriad of contributing factors....the effect of human behaviour being one range of factors.

We won't even mention the plastic islands floating in the oceans...
different forms of pollution created by people (heat, sound, human detritus...)....

Whoops, I just said that out loud...

In the meantime I am just finishing a basement flood restoration project....flooding due to spring melt run-off in March....most snow here in 27 years....frozen ground didn't allow drainage tile to do its job...

So, it's not just global warming....it's a range of climate/environmental changes...

"Life is like something I ain't never seen before..." (Missouri Breaks movie)

ncampion - 6-15-2018 at 01:28 PM

[rquote}

you're refuting the referee journal b/c of what you hear on fox news
you folks are a joke. sorry[/rquote]

I suppose you get your information from CNN and MSNBC. No need for further comment.

DaliDali - 6-15-2018 at 01:31 PM

As compared with government/privately funded scientists who live and breathe everyday on the grants they get?
No climate change......NO grant money.

Bingo

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by DaliDali]

you can deny gravity all you want ... but the apple will still hit you on the head.

ignorance is bliss I guess

Gravity is a given....jump up and you come down.

Not so much with oceans rising and inundating the fruited plain is it?

DaliDali - 6-15-2018 at 01:37 PM

So, it's not just global warming....it's a range of climate/environmental changes...

That's all anyone is saying motoman......

And shutting off well heads, pipelines, banning automobiles, oak burning fireplaces and other "off the wall" solutions.....and taxing everything from that well head to a tire disposal fee will "maybe" lower global temps by .01%

Holy cow......they may even come after your dirt moto......the horror yes?

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by BajaNomad]

DaliDali - 6-15-2018 at 01:44 PM

It seems a lot of people don't understand that significant sea level rise is a prediction for the future based upon the continued burning of fossil fuels in increasing amounts and the subsequent warming of the atmosphere and oceans. To date, the rise has been small but it will accelerate and problems are beginning to appear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1dnlHPzhQA

And there are examples of coastal communities that have existed for a long time that are now in peril. Currently, there are coastal communities in Alaska that are disappearing. Google it.

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by SFandH]

And due to the enormous fluctuations of Mother Nature and her oft ill temper, that may all change in the out years.

Fact is, no one really knows....it's a "model" driven guess at this point.

caj13 - 6-15-2018 at 02:50 PM

willfully ignorant isd a very comfortable place tgo be!
esspecially when one is proud of their willfull ignorance.

As compared with government/privately funded scientists who live and breathe everyday on the grants they get?
No climate change......NO grant money.

Bingo

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by DaliDali]

playa azul - 6-16-2018 at 12:05 AM

when i was a kid in the 70's we were warned about the coming ice age ......from scientists. Soooooo what happened..... it seems there is a lot of money to be made by alarming people into giving you their money by fear.... through the form of taxes. Global warming is a big money grab.

DaliDali - 6-16-2018 at 07:57 AM

willfully ignorant isd a very comfortable place tgo be!
esspecially when one is proud of their willfull ignorance.

As compared with government/privately funded scientists who live and breathe everyday on the grants they get?
No climate change......NO grant money.

Bingo

[Edited on 6-15-2018 by DaliDali]

Mr or Ms caj13.....blissful ignorance can be easily confused with blissful allegiance to what your told, no matter what yes?

Scientists are a fine lot and I respect them and have admiration for their accomplishments throughout the years.
For the many varied and sundry applications these scientists have become involved in over the years, the one basic principle of finding a solution is a best guess scenario.....using computer models and various tools such as maybe, a bunsen burner.

Finding a solution to cure malaria was by trial and error of many different chemical compounds, until a concoction was deemed worthy of being called a "cure" based on real world results.
And so it goes with scores of other solutions into the daily lives of humans and even critters. All well and good.

The climate is an ever changing phenomena over uncertain periods of time. No one can control it, change it or alter it.....it is what it is.
The universe is so vast and beyond anyone's knowledge to fathom it all, that attempting a tweak of it seems fruitless and at a cost that would likely be beyond what any normal human being could even fathom.

Ever since the anemometer was introduced, along with other "weather" prediction and measurement devices, the one thing that has stood the test of time is that Mother Nature calls the shots. All day, everyday.

Perhaps earth has a finite life...no one knows do they?
Al Gore became wildly wealthy by being a climate change hawk and wanted to radically change the very industries that allowed him to proceed in amassing that wealth....namely energy and their sources, and by all reporting, he is consuming the very ire of which he rails on about, at a rate that far exceeds what would be considered as holding a rabid concern about climate change.
Do as is say and not as I do seems appropo in this instance agreed?

It's all a guess at this point.......a reasoned guess to be sure, but nonetheless a guess.

You may want to consider the time tested and valid phrase of..
Don't mess with Mother Nature.

AKgringo - 6-16-2018 at 08:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by playa azul

when i was a kid in the 70's we were warned about the coming ice age .....

I remember the new ice age predictions! The theory was more popular with the news media than with the scientific community, so....more hype than science.

What is interesting is that some of the scientists were predicting that it would start with a rapid melting of the polar ice caps, which would change the nature of the ocean currents. The result was supposed to steer much warmer, moister air into the northern latitudes and higher elevations, causing the ice sheets to grow back with a vengeance!

So far, the global warming and the new ice age factions have evidence to point to in support of their theory.

I think I need to do more research on this dichotomy of opinion, but I am going to need some of that grant money!

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by AKgringo]

motoged - 6-16-2018 at 10:24 AM

So, it's not just global warming....it's a range of climate/environmental changes...

Gee, I don't remember saying all that....and as for riding my motorcycles....what do the gun guys say? .... Something about prying them from my hands.... :cool:

motoged - 6-16-2018 at 10:35 AM

.....
You may want to consider the time tested and valid phrase of..
Don't mess with Mother Nature.

Good point.....the way I read that is "don't abuse or disrespect Mother Nature".... :light:

DaliDali - 6-16-2018 at 10:37 AM

So, it's not just global warming....it's a range of climate/environmental changes...

Gee, I don't remember saying all that....and as for riding my motorcycles....what do the gun guys say? .... Something about prying them from my hands.... :cool:

Recall this direct quote Ged?

"So, it's not just global warming....it's a range of climate/environmental changes"

That is all were saying....you know, us wretched climate deniers and uneducated, ill informed dolts.

Gun guys?......you must have me confused with someone else Ged.
I own one.....and it's a thousand miles away from me right now

But even if it was close at hand.....I promise you safe passage aboard your moto anytime you make it down Loreto way oK....

Heck......beers on me if you promise not to bring JJJ or the Goat ok?

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by DaliDali]

DaliDali - 6-16-2018 at 10:49 AM

.....
You may want to consider the time tested and valid phrase of..
Don't mess with Mother Nature.

Good point.....the way I read that is "don't abuse or disrespect Mother Nature".... :light:

Yes sir Mr Ged.....we all have different perspectives on how Mother Nature responds to ill informed and doltish louts vs the informed and obviously massively more intelligent of those who want to shovel cash in the face of a vast universe in the sliver of hopes beyond hope that the globe temps will drop by .01%

In the end, and even out to the end of time, Mother Nature WILL have the last say on when and if to buy a pair of cute white rubber boots to wade the rising seas.

Now the overriding Q would be.....when will we kill all the flatulent bovines that emit gases into the atmosphere?

motoged - 6-16-2018 at 10:53 AM

Heck......beers on me if you promise not to bring JJJ or the Goat ok?

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by DaliDali]

Sounds like a kind invitation...I trust you could offer suggestions as to which places have the best tacos as well. :saint:

One condition, however.....we won't talk politics or religion....topics that often ruin a good visit....

I have never met a Nomad whose company I didn't enjoy...

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by motoged]

DaliDali - 6-16-2018 at 11:13 AM

I think DaliDali is of the opinion that global warming due to the burning of fossil fuel is not occurring. Do I have that right?

Never said this SF......all I AM saying it that that palm tree in the Bahia is STILL above water isn't it?

Is it that palm .....still above the high water mark or not?....where is has been and remains after centuries of existence?
The Sea of Cortez is open to the Pacific Ocean and rises and falls as it seeks out sea level across the globe.
Befuddled on how the sea level can be flooding the fruited plains in Indonesia and not seek that same level several thousand miles.
Any clues?

For the record.....yes I am on the fence and trending towards the idea that the use of fossil fuels MAY have an effect on the overall global temps.
To what degree I just don't know and would wager a months pension that neither do JJJ, the Goat or a NASA scientist or even Al Gore.

What I am not willing to concede is to remove the amount of the worlds wealth that it would take to lower those temps by an estimated .01%

Seriously....I don't mean to come off as snarky or the least bit condescending whatsoever to you ok?
I respect your views and the views of others and I only ask for mine to be respected also, without the calls of being an uneducated and ill informed dolt.

bezzell - 6-16-2018 at 11:25 AM

That is all were saying....you know, us wretched climate deniers and uneducated, ill informed dolts.

any questions??
:lol:

"b...b..bbbut look where the rubber ducky is in my bathtub"

:lol:

stunning!

DaliDali - 6-16-2018 at 11:31 AM

Heck......beers on me if you promise not to bring JJJ or the Goat ok?

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by DaliDali]

Sounds like a kind invitation...I trust you could offer suggestions as to which places have the best tacos as well. :saint:

One condition, however.....we won't talk politics or religion....topics that often ruin a good visit....

I have never met a Nomad whose company I didn't enjoy...

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by motoged]

Poblanos tacos.....on the west side of the carretera (MX !) as you approach the town proper.
The colonia is Miramar.....
Carne asada tacos or al pastor.
Open air, white plastic Tecate seats and tables.

2 tacos, foam cup of frijoles and a soda .....77 pesos.
Corona store right next door if a cerveza suits your fancy and they don't care if you pop a top while enjoying the tacos

Or tacos el Rey in the center of town.....but tough to find them open on any given day.

DaliDali - 6-16-2018 at 11:38 AM

That is all were saying....you know, us wretched climate deniers and uneducated, ill informed dolts.

any questions??
:lol:

"b...b..bbbut look where the rubber ducky is in my bathtub"

:lol:

stunning!

When you jumped up....did you come down ok?

mtgoat666 - 6-16-2018 at 11:48 AM

I think DaliDali is of the opinion that global warming due to the burning of fossil fuel is not occurring. Do I have that right?

If you havent had the simple curiosity to read about sea level change in the past decade, you are a dolt!
Wasting time on ignoramuses like you is futile!

John Harper - 6-16-2018 at 01:35 PM

Whatever the argued causes, the science community is seeing record polar ice melting away, as well as glaciers and ice sheets measurably receding. I think we can agree some of these physical events can be measured?

What would cause all that ice to melt? HEAT.

Where is all that melt water going to end up? THE OCEANS.

Here's another question: Why does the tide rise and fall in the Bay of Fundy much more than the Gulf of California, if the sea level is the same all over the world? By your "theory" it's also open to the ocean.

Why are tides different all over the world? Why also in different parts of Baja?

Waiting for your answer, gentlemen.

John

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by John Harper]

DaliDali - 6-16-2018 at 03:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Whatever the argued causes, the science community is seeing record polar ice melting away, as well as glaciers and ice sheets measurably receding. I think we can agree some of these physical events can be measured?

What would cause all that ice to melt? HEAT.

Where is all that melt water going to end up? THE OCEANS.

Here's another question: Why does the tide rise and fall in the Bay of Fundy much more than the Gulf of California, if the sea level is the same all over the world? By your "theory" it's also open to the ocean.

Waiting for your answer, gentlemen.

John

[Edited on 6-16-2018 by John Harper]

Good afternoon John.....

Let's digest this for a moment......
If the ambient air temps are getting warmer and more intense sunshine, yes ice melts at a more rapid pace....agreed
Now, that melted ice makes it way into the oceans around the entire world. Water can disperse water. Pour a bucket of water into a small pool of water, and the introduced water "pushes" aside the existing water and eventually seeks its own level throughout that pool.
Would that apply on a massive scale such as the open ocean?
Is is possible that water nearer the melt would be a millimeter or so "higher" before leveling out? Reported water levels are reported in just a millimeter or so right?
Centainly light years away from what Al Gore was selling yes?

We all know that heat and sunshine makes water evaporate right?

If the heat and sunshine is indeed more intense, all due to some global warming theories, would it be reasonable to assume that the water in the oceans would evaporate at an accelerated level in comparison to other "non" warmer time periods?
Can the ice field melts overcome the evaporation rate?
The entirety of the world's oceans is vastly larger than the whole of the Artic and Antartic agreed?

If this ocean water is indeed "warmer" due to sunshine and the like, would that precipitate the tropical storm formations? Sure it does right?
Can multiple tropical storms, over the entire intertropical zones of the whole world....with their massive rates of rainfall, be a cause of the ocean level rising a bit on those areas of the storms?
Does the intense wind flow downward, on to the sea surface, displace any of that surface water, which comes as "swells" that move over the sea surface and cause that water to rise and ebb as that swell moves by.
Were not talking about rock thrown into water here creating a swell or better stated, a ripple......but multiply that by bazillions. Have any effect on a local water level?

Tides are tides and a whole different animal........all dependant on the gravitational pull from the moon right? Full and new moons...higher water levels.....quarter and half moon....lower levels right?
Obviously stronger in the Bay of Fundy and even in the upper Sea of Cortez. For what reason I am clueless.
Difficult, if not down right mind boggling, is that the water in the upper Sea of Cortez keeps a higher, day in and day out level, non tide influenced level, than just down the sea a few hundred miles.... where the proverbial palm is still out of water.
Are you aware of any higher sea water intrusions in the San Felipe area that is inundating some beach front homes on a sustained basis?

It wasn't that long ago that someone on here was saying the salt flats from Punta Abreojos to La Bocana were flooded and laid claim it was due to global warming and the rising sea.
Odd......I was just on those very same salt flats not long ago and they were dry as a bone and local traffic was plying that road without water wings.

If land based warming is going up and more intense sunshine is in effect, that fuels land based thunderstorms and very severe ones at times agreed?
Would the massive amount of river runoffs into the ocean have any play in those areas seeing a bit higher sea levels until it seeks its own level?

As I mentioned to another poster on this topic, one can jump up and surely then comes down.......gravity is a given and no one disputes that.
Not such a simple phenom when it comes to oceans rising and an atmospheric zone becoming clogged up with the by products of burnt fossil fuels ....agreed?

No.... I am not convinced that it is fossil fuels that are the sole culprit in any rising sea levels.

Have a great day Mr Harper.

AKgringo - 6-16-2018 at 03:48 PM

Let's watch the tide come in on Turnagain Arm (near Anchorage) This is a moderate tide change, sometimes it is a breaking wave!
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bore+tides+turnagain+ar...

John Harper - 6-16-2018 at 06:28 PM

Interesting points. From the internet (if not fake news) it states that all the water locked in the ice caps is only 1.7% of all water on earth. Not sure if that translates to a maximum 1.7% rise in average sea level or not. Possibly more considering the continents, but they are only about 30% of the area, give or take.

That doesn't sound too serious, does it? Maybe it is. Let's consider that 1.7% rise in average sea level as worst case.

So, for each 1000 foot depth it would rise 17 feet. The average depth of the ocean is 12,000 feet (again, from the internet). 17 x 12 equals 204 feet. That does sound serious, doesn't it. 1.7% doesn't sound like much but 204 feet sure does.

So for even every 0.1% ice melted, sea level goes up 12 feet. That's a lot as well, don't you think? Not sure how close we are to that 0.1% but as long as it keeps melting we'll likely get closer. That's if we agree it is apparently melting and continues to do so.

And while I agree that it is not clear what effect human generated CO2 has in overall global temperatures, it is increasing the acidity of our oceans due to simple chemistry. That acidity may actually be a more serious issue IMO.

John

[Edited on 6-17-2018 by John Harper]

DaliDali - 6-16-2018 at 07:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

And while I agree that it is not clear what effect human generated CO2 has in overall global temperatures.

[Edited on 6-17-2018 by John Harper][/rquote

That's all I was trying to say John.......it's not clear enough to relieve the world of untold billions in wealth to chase "unclear" causations.

JoeJustJoe - 6-16-2018 at 09:11 PM

My God, another global warming denier thread that it looks like it was hijacked by global warning denier, DaliDali, who is trying to debate John Harper, by talking denier nonsense, and then saying, "agreed." as if John Harper, is supposed to agree with such denier foolishness.

John Harper, listen to Goat, you will never get anywhere auguring with a 'denier," it's better just to laugh. We all know about 95% of all scientist believe global warning is real, and mostly man made, the the other 5% of scientist work for Exxon, or the Trump administration.
______________________________________

My God, do you really believe this? You have no idea why arctic ice is so important compared to other oceans, and you don't quote anything as usual.

DalliDali wrote: "If the heat and sunshine is indeed more intense, all due to some global warming theories, would it be reasonable to assume that the water in the oceans would evaporate at an accelerated level in comparison to other "non" warmer time periods?

Can the ice field melts overcome the evaporation rate? The entirety of the world's oceans is vastly larger than the whole of the Artic and Antartic agreed?

If this ocean water is indeed "warmer" due to sunshine and the like, would that precipitate the tropical storm formations? Sure it does right? Can multiple tropical storms, over the entire intertropical zones of the whole world....with their massive rates of rainfall, be a cause of the ocean level rising a bit on those areas of the storms?
______________________________________
It's all about quoting and backing yourself up with known facts.

Why is Arctic sea ice important?

Arctic sea ice keeps the polar regions cool and helps moderate global climate. Sea ice has a bright surface; 80 percent of the sunlight that strikes it is reflected back into space. As sea ice melts in the summer, it exposes the dark ocean surface. Instead of reflecting 80 percent of the sunlight, the ocean absorbs 90 percent of the sunlight. The oceans heat up, and Arctic temperatures rise further.

A small temperature increase at the poles leads to still greater warming over time, making the poles the most sensitive regions to climate change on Earth. According to scientific measurements, both the thickness and extent of summer sea ice in the Arctic have shown a dramatic decline over the past thirty years. This is consisistent with observations of a warming Arctic. The loss of sea ice also has the potential to accelerate global warming trends and to change climate patterns.

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/quickfacts/seaice.html

mtgoat666 - 6-16-2018 at 10:20 PM

Much sea level change is due to temp increase, water expands with inc temp

AKgringo - 6-17-2018 at 07:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Much sea level change is due to temp increase, water expands with inc temp

It expands even more when it freezes. Good thing for life as we know it, imagine what kind of world this would be if ice sunk to the bottom of the oceans and lakes!

caj13 - 6-17-2018 at 10:03 AM

Here is some actual real science, done by guys who know what they are doing, using really sophisticated equipment and actual data sets . But it's written to be understood by the general public!

If your actually interested in fact, maybe this will help you educate yourself. BTW - You melt all the ice in antarctica - you are looking at a 58 meter rise in sea level - 200 feet for those of you metrically handicapped! and do yourself a favor and educate yourselves on climate feedback loops, and rates of acceleration etc.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/antarctica-lost-3-trilli...

[Edited on 6-17-2018 by caj13]

surfhat - 6-17-2018 at 10:39 AM

Thanks John Harper for the voice of reason. It is little wonder, since we are both locals here and on another site, and share a view that science has beyond any doubt proven mankind is responsible.

That we would leave the degradation of our future generations ability to survive on this blue gem is shameful, and all for the almighty dollar to the despoilers and profiteers.

I have resisted the impulse to engage in such discussions here. There is no putting lipstick on this pig. We may not see the Conception Bay palm tree submerged anytime soon, but that proves nothing.

Islands are being drowned, and the rise will be increase geometrically as time goes on. What we are leaving to future generations will be seen as our fault and deservedly so.

Anyone can point to a certain shoreline and see what is all the fuss about? Small minds can find any excuse to deny 98% of scientists and claim they are being compensated for their opinions.

If that 2% of the denying scientists sources were dug into, it is almost certain they are being influenced by the profiteers using the wealth we are all given by mother nature.

It is our responsibility to future generations to preserve what we have enjoyed. Over and out. As we all have the freedom of choice, no one side will win out with whatever stance we take.

Maybe at some point we can all agree that, yes, we can do something to preserve what we have had, for our future generations. We owe them at least that. Peace out.

rts551 - 6-17-2018 at 11:33 AM

It wasn't that long ago that someone on here was saying the salt flats from Punta Abreojos to La Bocana were flooded and laid claim it was due to global warming and the rising sea.
Odd......I was just on those very same salt flats not long ago and they were dry as a bone and local traffic was plying that road without water wings.

If you lived here like I do, instead of making idiot statements based on a one-time visit, you would see and understand that the road has continually moved up the salt flat over time. This enables the locals without their water wings (what an observation) to continue to use the salt flat as the lower sections flood and become unusable. But then again you probably only went to La Bocana to see the Peninsula sinking as one other casual observer stated was really happening. Have a nice day Dili.

TMW - 6-17-2018 at 11:46 AM

I would think Shari and Juan would have a more exact take on water level rising over the years since they live at waters edge.

rts551 - 6-17-2018 at 12:06 PM

I would think Shari and Juan would have a more exact take on water level rising over the years since they live at waters edge.

There are many people living on the waters edge. Juan and shari actually live on a bluff.

motoged - 6-17-2018 at 12:18 PM

Let's not drag Juan and Shari into this....they would respond if/when they wanted to.... (Shari is a Nomad, ....Juan doesn't play this internet game) :light:

chuckie - 6-17-2018 at 12:26 PM

I flew over that Palm this morning....had to gain 100' of altitude to clear it....It has grown that much since I went down.....I'll notify the FAA, don't worry.....

bajabuddha - 6-17-2018 at 12:29 PM

Ged, you devil, you..... You're the one started this pizzing match purposely to prod and provoke the pusillanimous pseudo pundits professing their prowess of self-importance and personal piety.

Once you start a thread it's not possible to direct where it goes. This is three pages so far of the same old people saying the same old well-worn statements from the last time this was broached.

If it don't stink, don't stir it. Methinks it's stirred up pretty well now.

del mar - 6-17-2018 at 12:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

Ged, you devil, you..... You're the one started this pizzing match purposely to prod and provoke the pusillanimous pseudo pundits professing their prowess of self-importance and personal piety.

Once you start a thread it's not possible to direct where it goes. This is three pages so far of the same old people saying the same old well-worn statements from the last time this was broached.

If it don't stink, don't stir it. Methinks it's stirred up pretty well now.

thank you

TMW - 6-17-2018 at 12:43 PM

I would think Shari and Juan would have a more exact take on water level rising over the years since they live at waters edge.

There are many people living on the waters edge. Juan and shari actually live on a bluff.

Do you live at the waters edge?

motoged - 6-17-2018 at 12:45 PM

BB,
Gosh....wuz just presenting info..... :biggrin:

Impressive alliteration !

chuckie - 6-17-2018 at 12:46 PM

No! But I will next week when the water comes up....

JoeJustJoe - 6-17-2018 at 12:51 PM

I would think Shari and Juan would have a more exact take on water level rising over the years since they live at waters edge.

That's not considered science. It would be considered anecdotal evidence if Shari and Juan, thought the water level was rising, lowering, or staying the same, especially if they were not out there with a measuring stick.

Speaking anecdotal the last few years, something is going on with the environment with these wild swings in whether patterns. But it would be silly of me to put my finger in the air, and claim a pattern based on my green or dry lawn.

DaliDali - 6-17-2018 at 01:05 PM

If you lived here like I do, instead of making idiot statements based on a one-time visit,

If you lived here like I do, you would see that the water level on this side of the mountains is STILL at the same level it was for the last 18 years of full time residence here......you wouldn't be making those idiot statements.

And just up the road where that proverbial palm lives.....it's STILL above the high water mark.
Is there some phenomena on that side that causes the sea levels to be higher and flood the fruited plains?

This is where you get into trouble....you "assume" I made only one visit.

Barratt was right..you are a cantankerous lot.

[Edited on 6-17-2018 by DaliDali]

DaliDali - 6-17-2018 at 01:15 PM

I would think Shari and Juan would have a more exact take on water level rising over the years since they live at waters edge.

Discounting live and up close accounts of real people on real ground vs a computer in some far off office building are dicey.

Real people on real ground with eyes wide open trumps (eat it Joe) run of sundry computer models.

How is it in that rathole up in occupied Aztlan anyway?
Get out much do you? Down to the seashore?

Bashing brown skinned Catholics again on all those anarchist sites you prowl around in?
Just curious JJJ.....no assumptions

rts551 - 6-17-2018 at 01:31 PM

I would think Shari and Juan would have a more exact take on water level rising over the years since they live at waters edge.

There are many people living on the waters edge. Juan and shari actually live on a bluff.

Do you live at the waters edge?

Yes

rts551 - 6-17-2018 at 01:39 PM

If you lived here like I do, instead of making idiot statements based on a one-time visit,

At least spell his name right. If you truly came here very often you would have seen it all over his rentals. Don't have to assume much there.

True story...someone on this forum advised people that the salt flat between Abreojos and La Bocana was like a freeway and perfectly fine all the time. Some poor sucker got stuck...for 2 days....he was so upset he said he would never believe a soul ion this forum ever again... don't know if that is true or what ever happened to him. Best to be careful of advising people on areas that we do not frequent often. Thus ...no, I don't pretend to know much about your tide.

DaliDali - 6-17-2018 at 02:21 PM

If you lived here like I do, instead of making idiot statements based on a one-time visit,

Yes excuse me for the misspelling....I should know better, seeings how I have known Barrett for 18 years and when we would prowl the local color of Loreto in seek of excitement and a thrill up our leg.
Don't see him much anymore....all tied down with kids in school up in Ensenada and of course the lovely wife.
When he is in Loreto fighting with his brother, he drops in and we reminisce about the good old days and tell lies.

Does the west coast area have tides?
Are there at times, what is called "supertides"
During a supertide event, does the water level move up into the salt flats?
After the highest of the high tide passes, does the water recede back into the lagoon?

When is the last time you have seen the sea swoop in and inundate that salt flat? Is it a weekly occurrence, monthly..highest tides only?
How long does it take the fossil fueled induced intense sunshine to dry out the flats?

You would stake your life that the sea is rising due to the use of fossil fuels?
What would be your remedy to alter and or change the climate to keep the sea at bay?

Are any seaside homes in danger of toppling over due to sea water intrusion? From my vantage point, those homes are sited well back from the edge of the sea.....

Normally I don't get that far up the beach.....hanging around Huesos and down to Rene.
In fact, I will be at Rene on July 16th for 30 days...along with some other local Loretanos escaping the heat.
06 Ram 4x4 silver color with SD plates......Jayco 24" travel trailer in the middle palapa slot and red Honda quad and 14" Gregor.

Speaking of Rene......one evening the water level on the block wall behind the palapa camp slots was lapping on the top step....but it was a full moon and I figured it was just the normal tidal action.
Was that a grave miscalculation and it was indeed, the climate induced rising sea level?

Well sure enough....when the full moon waned into the quarter moon, the water level receded nearer the bottom step and even lower.
And on that same full moon period......nearly the entire lagoon empties....can global warming also mean a lower sea level?

No offense.....just trying to get a grip on the entire phenom.

[Edited on 6-17-2018 by DaliDali]

JoeJustJoe - 6-17-2018 at 02:32 PM

It's so funny that we have a global warming denier in our midst. :lol:

DaliDali, I'm going to tell you something and you better sit down first.

The Earth is round! I know this is shocking to you, because if you look out and only depend on your eyes or what the early church said, the Earth will appear to be flat to you, but it's really round.

No I'm sorry, anecdotal observations from Baja, doesn't disprove global warnings, especially if those making the observations are global warming deniers.
_______________________________________

5 reasons why anecdotes are totally worthless

Personal anecdotes are often the primary ammunition of those who deny science

1. If you are using anecdotes, you are committing a logical fallacy

2. Anecdotes aren’t representative

3. Anecdotes aren’t controlled

4. An anecdote is a sample size of N=1

5. Anecdotes aren’t collected systematically

In summary, using anecdotes as evidence of causation commits a logical fallacy, which means that anecdotal arguments must be rejected. Further, anecdotes don’t give you a fair representation of the effects of X on Y, nor do they account for potential confounding factors. Therefore, anecdotes are worthless as evidence. They simply cannot demonstrate causal relationships. As I often say on this blog, if you want to know whether or not X causes Y, the one and only way to do it is by conducting large, properly controlled studies that account for confounding variables. Nothing else will suffice.

https://thelogicofscience.com/2016/02/10/5-reasons-why-anecd...

Skipjack Joe - 6-17-2018 at 02:45 PM

I believe S and H provided a link a few years ago that showed that this side of the Pacific has risen imperceptibly but the eastern side about 5”. If true then the rise in sea level is variable. Currently both Greenland and Antarctica is lositing ice dramatically. The water has to go somewhere. Instead of measuring the palm tree it may be best to view to receding glaciers. I’m sure there are plenty of pictures on the internet.

DaliDali - 6-17-2018 at 02:45 PM

DaliDali, I'm going to tell you something and you better sit down first.

Yes sir boss man....sitting down now......don't whup me boss
man please.

79 Francisco Madero
Colonia Centro
Loreto, BSC
23880

Across the street(west side) from me is a "centro de maestros" office.
On the northside of that is a car wash.
Next door neighbor is a small tienda
North side is a vacant dirt lot.
Nearest cross street is Padre Kino.

Rock wall front......red primer gates.....large garage with blue gates.

Drop by sometime

[Edited on 6-17-2018 by DaliDali]

rts551 - 6-17-2018 at 02:58 PM

If you lived here like I do, instead of making idiot statements based on a one-time visit,

2013 Copper colored Ram, or yellow honda quad with dog in tow. Have had a house in La Beliza 24 years.
And since you bring up Estero Coyote, why is it that all the good camping that used to be on the point near the channel is now inundated with water? Or if you get a chance, take the road along the coast of La Beliza as you go to town and see how the tides of eroded the bank. Not just super tides but normal high tides.
The salt flats are not near as dry as they used to be...all the time. You can see the evidence left from roads of days past.

DOn't worry, you won't have to change your precious life style.. Most scientists say its too late to stop it, we will have to adapt. See how fast the south pole is melting now? https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2018/06/13/antarcticas-...

Barrett was just here by the way.

[Edited on 6-17-2018 by rts551]

DaliDali - 6-17-2018 at 03:17 PM

That sand point is a bit mushy at times....just back up a bit and all is well.

The Q is....is that due to global warming induced sea rise or just the tides?

I would venture to say.....it's not a sure thing at this point.
Do you have some measurement instruments at hand to drill down on a sure thing?

And I would venture to say with certainty that my lifestyle is no more elegant than yours, or anyone else who lives a modest lifestyle and saves the Tecate cans for the trash pick up dudes.

You drive a fossil fueled Ram, drive a fossil fueled quad and most likely, but unmentioned, fossil fueled outboard motor on a boat to catch a corvina for dinner.... and run back and forth to AZ frequently right?

I would use a solar system for power but unwilling to pony up the costs for that......and the costs of maintenance of such a system.
I use the quad for around town....uses very little fuel as you know. Ram just for pulling the trailer around.....which by the way has a solar panel for power.
Don't use mesquite for a cooking fire, don't burn trash.......my bad?

Too late to stop it?....dang, yet some are up in arms to relieve the world of untold billions to twart it...I'll be damned.... :?:

rts551 - 6-17-2018 at 03:32 PM

That point used to be a great camping spot years ago. Too wet now.

Yes have a 15ft Gregor Baja Special...probably uses more gas than yours. 8 months here, 4 months in Arizona, so yes some running back and forth....I do live off grid and have solar....

Does all that mean I have to deny that I impact the environment, create greenhouse gases, and probably influence the climate? Not me. While I can not reverse what has happened I can be aware and a little more conscious of my actions. I also support policies that will help slow down what impacts that occur.

Measure? Glad you mentioned it. https://science.nasa.gov/earth-science/oceanography/physical...

What untold billion$$$$ are at risk? or is that a political stomping point.

chuckie - 6-17-2018 at 03:45 PM

OK!

DaliDali - 6-17-2018 at 04:00 PM

Kyoto accords
Paris accords

The quest to relieve wealthier countries of that wealth and pass it on to less developed nations, who by their very nature, squander it, steal it, mismanage it and increase the wealth of those who administer it all.

All in an effort to lower global temps by .01%

Color me stunned......the sheer audacity of wealth transfer.

SFandH - 6-17-2018 at 06:39 PM

All in an effort to lower global temps by .01%

Where did you get that number from? The goal is to stop the average global temps from rising over a period of decades due to the manmade increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases.

Tioloco - 6-19-2018 at 07:39 AM

Dali Dali-
Obviously you and I just don't get it. We should realize that if we were more intelligent we would be able to grasp the fact that the earth doesn't evolve without human interference. If all humans died today, we would freeze frame the current environmental conditions. Earth would be saved!
Sounds amazing! Although, I am still trying to figure out how the desert southwest United States was once under water. Maybe those dinosaurs were emitting too much gas and changed the balance?
Hard to tell...

JoeJustJoe - 6-19-2018 at 08:08 AM

All in an effort to lower global temps by .01%

Where did you get that number from? The goal is to stop the average global temps from rising over a period of decades due to the manmade increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases.

One thing you will rarely or never see from Global Warming deniers, are links that support their caveman thinking about Global warming being non-existent or their belief that Global warming is real, but it's all part of a natural phenomenon that always existed. Of course they ignore the accelerated environmental damage during the last 200 years of the industrial age.

[Edited on 6-19-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

Cliffy - 6-19-2018 at 08:12 AM

Let's see, 15,000 years ago there were glaciers down to the Great Lakes. The central US west has risen and fallen at least 6 times in history bringing large bodies of water into and out of the area. Don't think "man" had anything to do with that.

2nd observation- Why is "man" cut out and not considered a natural evolutionary process of the earth as a whole?

One can make modeling to fit any outcome one wants. It boils down to assumptions. In the end its all guess work. Can't prove it because none of us will be around long enough to see it.

The earth moves slowly in galactic time terms. It has a far larger capacity the heal itself than anyone here can determine (volcano emissions for instance). Nothing here to panic about.

I frankly don't care what happens 1,000 years from now. It ain't gonna happen tomorrow!

JoeJustJoe - 6-19-2018 at 08:17 AM

I rest my case with Cliffy's last post.

My God, I have to remind myself, this is the main area of "BN" with that last post by Cliffy.

rts551 - 6-19-2018 at 08:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco

Dali Dali-
Obviously you and I just don't get it. We should realize that if we were more intelligent we would be able to grasp the fact that the earth doesn't evolve without human interference. If all humans died today, we would freeze frame the current environmental conditions. Earth would be saved!
Sounds amazing! Although, I am still trying to figure out how the desert southwest United States was once under water. Maybe those dinosaurs were emitting too much gas and changed the balance?
Hard to tell...

Tio and Dali... I haven't heard anyone saying that there is not a natural evolution of the earth...In fact its the very ones (science) that showed the Earth is not flat (it isn't, is it?). What they are saying is there is a CONTROLLABLE influence in this evolution that is man made. We don't all want to be dinosaurs do we?

DaliDali - 6-19-2018 at 08:36 AM

JJJ going off the skids now.......
Claiming the world should just go back to the times of cavemen to rescue the climate.

SF had a good point about "how did you come up with that number".....
Yet does not provide a number of his own.
What is that number JJJ? With the melting ice cap, at what rate is the sea rising world wide? What effect would the now global warming and more intense sunshine on the world's ocean have in relation to the rate of evaporation?
Can the melt of the ice cap overpower the rate of evaporation? Over power the rates of inflow from around the world's rivers? Overpower the rate of rainfall around the world?
You don't know do you JJJ?...just blurt it out......it's ok

Actually I came up with number out of my hat.......the same place Al Gore came up with the number we would be wading in knee deep sea water right now.

After all the yelling and screaming and JJJ being the dolt he is, a full throated Anarchist and bigot......it's all a guess.
Scientific prognosticators of the weather are more often than not....wrong. Scientific prognosticators of the climate can draw a best guess by entering data and drawing a guess from that.....in the interest of keeping the grant money flowing.

And yet there it is....in all its glory......a palm tree STILL above the rising sea.

I gave you my address, gave you the directions to find it......
The Q now is....are you going to run away like the coward you are?....Just like you ran away in fear from Elinvesti8tor?

Just an invite JJJ....let's discuss it all and away from the keyboard.
What say you JJJ?

DaliDali - 6-19-2018 at 08:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco

Well sure there is a natural evolution to the globe...
Erosion, wind, water...maybe even a warmer overall climate.

I shudder to think that man can even fathom placing controls on what comes as a natural phenom worldwide and has since sea animals crawled out of the sea and onto land.

bezzell - 6-19-2018 at 08:53 AM

ok ok NOW we can rest the futile case! :lol:

JoeJustJoe - 6-19-2018 at 08:58 AM

Again no links from DaliDali, just nothing but hot air.

Notice, he tries to change the argument, and is always asking others to go find some obscure findings or fact. Yeah, right, I'll get right on it, DaliDali. Nuts, like DaliDali, will think in their mind, they win the debate, if you don't come up with what he is asking for.

No DaliDali, you come up with your own facts and links.

Oh my GOD, then DaliDali, resorts to 4 year old sandbox playing, by requesting a personal meeting, between us. Yeah, right, I'm going to jump in a plane and travel 1000 miles to a face to face meeting to settle our differences, and in DaliDali 's mind, he thinks if I don't take him up on his offer, that I'm scared of him.

What DaliDali, doesn't know, is I often get requests to meet forum members in person, and some of my past managers, have told nuts like DaliDali, take a number if you want to meet JoeJustJoe.

But I'm always game to play, I just suggest a counter offer. DaliDali, if you want to meet me, you come to Tijuana, I'll be there tomorrow, and we can meet at 12 noon and we can discuss global warming in person, OK?

DaliDali - 6-19-2018 at 09:07 AM

Again no links from DaliDali, just nothing but hot air.

Notice, he tries to change the argument, and is always asking others to go find some obscure findings or fact. Yeah, right, I'll get right on it, DaliDali. Nuts, like DaliDali, will think in their mind, they win the debate, if you don't come up with what he is asking for.

No DaliDali, you come up with your own facts and links.

Oh my GOD, then DaliDali, resorts to 4 year old sandbox playing, by requesting a personal meeting, between us. Yeah, right, I'm going to jump in a plane and travel 1000 miles to a face to face meeting to settle our differences, and in DaliDali 's mind, he thinks if I don't take him up on his offer, that I'm scared of him.

What DaliDali, doesn't know, is I often get requests to meet forum members in person, and some of my past managers, have told nuts like DaliDali, take a number if you want to meet JoeJustJoe.

But I'm always game to play, I just suggest a counter offer. DaliDali, if you want to meet me, you come to Tijuana, I'll be there tomorrow, and we can meet at 12 noon and we can discuss global warming in person, OK?

Sure enough.....nothing from JJJ but hot air.

No comments on if the rate of evaporation of the sea water can blunt the ice melt?
No comment on river inflows into the ocean.
No comment on rainfall.

And even more remarkable......no comment that Al Gore SERIOUSLY oversold the sea would be at your knees by now.
And not ONE word on ole Al about HIS sucking up resources.

Tell you what....meet halfway ok?
Say the old Pemex station at the turnoff to LA Bay?
I will wait for you to clear your other commitments...

JoeJustJoe - 6-19-2018 at 09:19 AM

I have no problem backing up what I say with known facts and links, however, what I won't do, is take orders from a right-wing global warming denier, and go find some obscure data for him.

Now you try it DD, back up your anecdotal tales, or observations of global warming with known facts, and links of your choosing.

I'm sure Exxon, and other polluters has a few good links, that shows global warming is not real.

______________________________________

The Industrial Revolution kick-started global warming much earlier than we realised

Determining when global warming began, and how quickly the planet has warmed since then, is essential for understanding how much we have altered the climate in different parts of the world.

read the rest here:

http://climate.anu.edu.au/news-events/industrial-revolution-...

DaliDali - 6-19-2018 at 09:55 AM