BajaNomad

Hook (and others) get in this thread and help me with a Baja comms package

JZ - 6-25-2018 at 04:23 PM

Goal: radios for 2-3 bikes and the truck.

Objective: best distance out riding.

Limitations:
- don't want to hard wire anything into the truck
- don't want to program any radios, unless it is super simple (too busy to fool around with it right now)

Anyone want to suggest some products?


A while back Hook wrote:

"There are a lot of really good deals on Baofeng radios through Amazon Prime. Just make sure you get a package with a lithium ion battery and charger, belt clip, lanyard, etc.

A really sweet setup would be to get a magnet mount antenna, an antenna adaptor and maybe a 12v power plug. Clip the radio to your sun visor in the car. Your range would be dramatically increased, even line of sight. You would probably still be well under 100.00.

And have a lot more capability and distance than a Motorola FRS radio. Disconnect the external mag mount antenna, slap on the rubber duckie and you have a walk-about radio."

taoswheat - 6-25-2018 at 06:18 PM

Baofeng BF-888 radios are about $15 but only 2W Tx power. Wouxun KG-833 radios are better performers and 4+ W Tx but about $80. Mag mount antenna on truck will help a lot but range will be limited by the handheld radio antennas. Mag mounts on the bikes would be a hassle but would give better range. It is very hard to predict radio range in hill country. If the truck is on a hill top the range will be good to surrounding low terrain. Depending on terrain you might be better off with VHF radios rather than UHF but hard to say for sure.
I maintain a fleet of UHF radios at a ski area but we have repeaters to solve the range problem. I do have quite a few BF-888s and KG-833s and know them well. It is hard to beat the BF-888 because at under $15 if you are not happy with them then throw them away. Both radios come with Li batteries and chargers.

[Edited on 6-26-2018 by taoswheat]

[Edited on 6-26-2018 by taoswheat]

[Edited on 6-26-2018 by taoswheat]

mjs - 6-25-2018 at 08:10 PM

If you don't want to DIY then just get a VHF package from PCI or Rugged. You can use a handheld in the truck or just set the mobile unit on the seat ( but not best). Range on mobile unit is greater so bikes will hear but not be able to reply until truck is in range of bike unit.

[Edited on 6-26-2018 by mjs]

advrider - 6-25-2018 at 08:33 PM

Just won a set of Ruggeds at a SXS event, haven't used them yet but they have good reviews.

TMW - 6-25-2018 at 08:35 PM

The truck setup is easy. A good 50+ watt mobile like a Yaesu with a mag mount antenna on the roof.

The problem is getting a helmet setup for the bikes. They are available but not cheap. You'll need an ear piece and a mic and a push to talk button. Unless you want to rely on batteries you'll need to integrate it into the bikes power system. I suggest you talk to Tim Morton at BajaBoundMoto and get his take on what to do.

His email is info@bajaboundmoto.com or talk to PCI.

Also check with some of the motorcycle shops that deal in street bike communication system.

Hook - 6-25-2018 at 10:12 PM

TMW's advice is pretty right on, especially with respect to a VHF radio in the truck. Yaesu now makes the FT-2980, which is 80 watts. But you should be able to find an older FT-2900 on ebay. Those are 75 watts. Then, perform the MARS mod, easily found on the internet, and you can use it with any of the 5 watt marine hand held radios you have. Not legal to operate this in the US, of course; probably not in Mexico, either, but............maybe thousands of radios have had this done by amateurs. It will make a great base station in the truck or home for talking to boats at sea, too. 75-80 watts will have you talking from San Carlos to the East Cape (over water, of course) at times.

You should probably mount a bracket in the truck (since it will be used in rough conditions) but the radio can be removed quickly and easily. Heck, even the bracket could be removed in 30 seconds with an electric screwdriver, if you dont want it in there at home.

I prefer to have it hard-wired to the battery with a fuse in between and then have a removable power plug between the inline fuse holder and the radio. Radio comes out in the time it takes you to unplug the power plug and back off the antenna connection. Another 30 seconds. I dont like using any of the cig lighter type power plugs. Some can handle the power but they are too valuable for other devices.

I do like having an external speaker with my truck radio. I really like the tone of the Yaesu MLS-100. I just throw it unmounted up on the dash or down on the floor over the transmission, pointing up. If I get out of the truck, it has enough extension to set it on the roof, pointing outward.

For the mag mount antennae, go with a Diamond or a Larsen. I would avoid MFJ.

Unless the bikes are willing to stop to call the truck, then a helmet radio is the only way. They wont hear anything else. An ear bud, maybe, but it takes a good noise-cancelling mic to eliminate the exhaust sound, if they want to talk back. But if they are willing to stop to call, then the VHF marine HT (hand held) radios can work. This can still work as an emergency setup if you get the kids to check in on a timetable.

But they wont get a signal back to the truck if there are rock outcrops in between. VHF is GENERALLY line of sight. But the power of the truck radio will often get to the HTs by some reflection and just powering up and over some obstructions.

I am not a moto rider, so maybe there are better options for a moto. Check with the guy TMW recommends.

JZ - 6-26-2018 at 08:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
The truck setup is easy. A good 50+ watt mobile like a Yaesu with a mag mount antenna on the roof.

The problem is getting a helmet setup for the bikes. They are available but not cheap. You'll need an ear piece and a mic and a push to talk button. Unless you want to rely on batteries you'll need to integrate it into the bikes power system. I suggest you talk to Tim Morton at BajaBoundMoto and get his take on what to do.

His email is info@bajaboundmoto.com or talk to PCI.

Also check with some of the motorcycle shops that deal in street bike communication system.


Thanks for the Yaesu tip.

To clarify, I wasn't necessarily thinking about helmet setup. Handhelds.


[Edited on 6-26-2018 by JZ]

JZ - 6-26-2018 at 09:04 AM

Thx Hook, appreciate the details info. I'll go with the Yaesu you recommended.

I have a couple questions. Treat me like I'm a 5 yo on some of these, as I'm pretty much a complete newbie regarding radios.


Questions:
- Do I want to go for VHF bands over UHF? Somewhere I read UHF was a little better when you don't have line of sight. I lost a couple of my VHF marine handhelds, so I need to get new radios regardless. If they perform as well, VHF handhelds would make sense.

- What does the MARS mod do? Is this just installing software on it or something?

- What Diamond or Larsen mag mount is good?

TMW - 6-26-2018 at 10:43 AM

VHF is better over a longer distance than UHF. The race promoters use VHF as well so if you are at an off road race you can listen and/or communicate if necessary, like an emergency.

I'm not sure what MARS means but my guess is that it mods a ham radio to communicate in a wide frequency band. For example 151.625mhz is the SCORE frequency so modifying a ham radio would allow you to use that frequency. All off road race teams use a frequency in that grouping.

I use a Tram mag mount antenna that is 19 inches tall. I'm not saying it is the best just that it works for me.

Hook - 6-26-2018 at 11:20 AM

Yes, a MARS modification is a means of opening up the frequencies that the radio can transmit on. Generally speaking, 2 meter ham radios can often LISTEN on the VHF Marine frequencies, but can't transmit on them. The MARS mod opens them up to transmitting on those freqs.

For every radio that I have owned and read about, it is a simply matter of taking a low-wattage pencil soldering iron and separating a "bridge" of solder on a circuit board, so that they are no longer connected. Many examples on you tube or the internet, in general. I suspect this bypasses some type of circuit that prevents transmission on specific frequencies.

But if your marine HTs are gone, then you are starting from scratch. I GUESS you could look at some of the inexpensive ham HT units but I have no history with them. Based on a previous post above, go with the one that guy recommends that is 4 watts. 2 watts is not much. They will talk to your mobile unit in the truck without the MARS mod.

Of course, these radios do legally need an FCC license for all that operate them in a non-emergency situation. It involves a test, but Morse code is no longer required. If you are just using them in Mexico, I probably wouldnt bother. But you could get yourself in trouble if you use them on a frequency that is monitored by other hams in the US. So maybe stick to a ship to ship, simplex (transmits and receives on the same freq) marine frequency that is not used in the area you are in. The common ones are ARE often in use (and should be avoided) are 68, 69, 71, 72, 74, 77, 78. Some of these are ship to shore but boaters use them ship to ship all the time.

No time to research the mag mount antennas right now. Maybe tomorrow.

TMW - 6-26-2018 at 11:34 AM

The Baofeng UV-5R handheld is cheap and in my experience works pretty good. I'm told that the longer antenna, I think 7 inches is better than what it comes with. I have 4 radios plus 4 extra batteries. I like the fact you can lock out the keys so someone can't accidently press a key and screw it up. The UHF and VHF covers a wide range. At $30 on Amazon it's hard to beat.

From Amazon: BaoFeng BF-F8HP (UV-5R 3rd Gen) 8-Watt Dual Band Two-Way Radio (136-174MHz VHF & 400-520MHz UHF) Includes Full Kit with Large Battery.

Of course the new radio is twice the price at $62.




[Edited on 6-26-2018 by TMW]

caj13 - 6-26-2018 at 12:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
The Baofeng UV-5R handheld is cheap and in my experience works pretty good. I'm told that the longer antenna, I think 7 inches is better than what it comes with. I have 4 radios plus 4 extra batteries. I like the fact you can lock out the keys so someone can't accidently press a key and screw it up. The UHF and VHF covers a wide range. At $30 on Amazon it's hard to beat.

From Amazon: BaoFeng BF-F8HP (UV-5R 3rd Gen) 8-Watt Dual Band Two-Way Radio (136-174MHz VHF & 400-520MHz UHF) Includes Full Kit with Large Battery.

Of course the new radio is twice the price at $62.

thats because it is 8 watt instead of 2.

I appreciate the info, heading out on camping hiking with family, just picked up the 5 watt Baefung , 5 radios, chargers earpieces etc - for 62 bucks, free next day shipping (prime) shipping
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0728KY23S/ref=od_aui_deta...

although I believe the radios I bought are much more likely 2 watts - Chineese discriptions don't seem to be bounded by actual facts!



[Edited on 6-26-2018 by TMW]


[Edited on 6-26-2018 by caj13]

JZ - 6-26-2018 at 12:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
The Baofeng UV-5R handheld is cheap and in my experience works pretty good. I'm told that the longer antenna, I think 7 inches is better than what it comes with. I have 4 radios plus 4 extra batteries. I like the fact you can lock out the keys so someone can't accidently press a key and screw it up. The UHF and VHF covers a wide range. At $30 on Amazon it's hard to beat.

From Amazon: BaoFeng BF-F8HP (UV-5R 3rd Gen) 8-Watt Dual Band Two-Way Radio (136-174MHz VHF & 400-520MHz UHF) Includes Full Kit with Large Battery.

Of course the new radio is twice the price at $62.




[Edited on 6-26-2018 by TMW]


Thinking about getting the newer BaoFeng. How easy is it to pick a frequency and get started? There are all these videos on YouTube talking about "programming" the thing.

I hope you can just enter the frequency easy enough, like plug in 156.425 to get channel 68.

https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-BF-F8HP-Two-Way-136-174MHz-40...


[Edited on 6-26-2018 by JZ]

JZ - 6-26-2018 at 12:38 PM

Hook, this one looks like it comes with the mod already done for you:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0779CN8X9/ref=ox_sc_act_t...

Now I just need to find the right antenna.


[Edited on 6-26-2018 by JZ]

JZ - 6-26-2018 at 12:58 PM

So here's what I just ordered. Hopefully it will all work together and I can get it setup fairly easily.

Truck radio:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0779CN8X9/ref=ox_sc_act_t...

Two handhelds for the bikes:
https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-BF-F8HP-Two-Way-136-174MHz-40...

Mag mount antenna:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018EUB8DU/ref=oh_aui_deta...

12 volt adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/CigBuddy-Portable-Cigarette-Anderson-...



[Edited on 6-27-2018 by JZ]

StuckSucks - 6-26-2018 at 03:04 PM

I have a 10w iCom handheld that I use on my bike, helmet wired, PTT button. The problem is, my range is very limited, 100m is pushing limits. Is my range problem due to lack of power or lack of antenna or other?

TMW - 6-27-2018 at 05:23 PM

I have the Baogeng VU-5R and they are real easy to program the frequency.

JZ the mag mount antenna looks kind of small at the base where the mag mount is. The antenna mounts I have are about 3-4 inches in diameter. Making it harded to get knocked off the roof.

SS your lack of range is mainly a lack of antenna and any ground plain for it. That's the problem with all handheld radios. As far as power goes when you double the power the range(distance) increases by the sq root. For example if 10 watts will go 10 mile then 20 watts will go 14 miles, 40 watts will go 20 miles etc. Over water it's different, it will go much farther, especially salt water. I have friends who have told me using a 5 watt VHF handheld and a mag mount roof top antenna they have talked from Rocky Point to San Felipe.

Hook - 6-27-2018 at 08:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks  
I have a 10w iCom handheld that I use on my bike, helmet wired, PTT button. The problem is, my range is very limited, 100m is pushing limits. Is my range problem due to lack of power or lack of antenna or other?


Are you powering it externally or internal batteries? What band is it?

Even with the limitations of antenna height and no ground plane, a 10w ANY FREQUENCY should go more than 100 meters.

JZ - 6-27-2018 at 09:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
I have the Baogeng VU-5R and they are real easy to program the frequency.

JZ the mag mount antenna looks kind of small at the base where the mag mount is. The antenna mounts I have are about 3-4 inches in diameter. Making it harded to get knocked off the roof.



Looks like the antenna connects to the bigger dish magnet.

Good to hear it's easy to setup. Just got the HH's today. Told my 14yo that's his job for tomorrow.


PaulW - 6-28-2018 at 05:40 AM

Stuck, you have a very good radio. Shop around for an extended whip antenna. Try the Ham radio shops. The one I have on my HH Yaesu is about 16" long. It replaces the rubber ducky one that came with the radio. My antenna change made a huge difference.
For use in my truck I have a fender mount 5/8 Db ant with a coax into the cab. Everybody I travel with are very impressed with my range. The Yaesu is a vintage 5 Watt unit.

Jack Swords - 6-28-2018 at 08:05 AM

A 5/8 wavelength antenna typically has a gain factor of about 2 dB due to the directivity of the radiation. That excludes losses from coaxial connectors and feedlines. The 2 dB factor is a power (watt) multiplier. For a 5 watt output radio that would result in approximately 10 watts effective radiated power (ERP). The simple rubber ducky or tiny whip does not increase ERP, but reduces it. 5/8 wavelength antennas for mobile use are common and much more effective than a simple whip antenna. If you need greater distance on VHF freqs look at the antenna.

Jack, N1IY

StuckSucks - 6-28-2018 at 10:56 AM

Thanks everyone for the antenna advise -- I will go bigger and see what that does. I broadcast around 150.xxx MHz.

JZ - 6-28-2018 at 07:37 PM

Got the Baofeng today. There are a million videos on YouTube for "programming" the thing. Some are like 1.5hrs long, lol. They talk about using a cable to do it with your laptop. None of the videos were helpful.

If anyone wants to set one up fast, here's the video you want. It can be done in 2 mins.

https://youtu.be/akS6Fq3yVLc


[Edited on 9-13-2018 by JZ]

DouglasP - 9-13-2018 at 02:08 PM

Great info above. It makes my head hurt!

I am looking at a set up for my Can Am UTV. I am looking at the PCI intercom and radio package.

https://www.pciraceradios.com/collections/trax-intercom-pack...

It's a lot of money, but it is pretty much plug and play and gives me all of the things I'm looking for.
My concern though is the two way radio. Is 50 amps enough? It doesn't have the MARS/CAP mod, is that necessary?
If I go with another radio it won't interface with the intercom, which will suck, the radio they include has been modded to integrate into their system.

Thanks for any help in advanced. Type slow, I've hit my head a few times :?:

Pacifico - 9-13-2018 at 05:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP  
Great info above. It makes my head hurt!

I am looking at a set up for my Can Am UTV. I am looking at the PCI intercom and radio package.

https://www.pciraceradios.com/collections/trax-intercom-pack...

It's a lot of money, but it is pretty much plug and play and gives me all of the things I'm looking for.
My concern though is the two way radio. Is 50 amps enough? It doesn't have the MARS/CAP mod, is that necessary?
If I go with another radio it won't interface with the intercom, which will suck, the radio they include has been modded to integrate into their system.

Thanks for any help in advanced. Type slow, I've hit my head a few times :?:


Douglas, You can't go wrong with the PCI set-ups. They are tried and true. You mentioned 50 amps, I think you meant 50 watts...and yes, it is enough. You can also get 60 watt (Rugged Radios) and 110 watt (Kenwood) radios https://www.pciraceradios.com/collections/radios/products/ke... . Check out Rugged Radios also. Their 60 watt radio has a feature where you can easily program in your own channel/frequency which can be very helpful during races where there is a lot of traffic and all regular channels are busy. https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=special_cat...

I have always been a PCI guy, but I recently bought the 60 watt Rugged Radio because a friend raved about it. I really like it!

PaulW - 9-13-2018 at 07:17 PM

Hi Douglas,
The PCI setup is very good. That PCI setup is very spendy and is way overkill for most of us. You can do a lot cheaper and still have the option for the PCI intercom for two people.
I suggest Yaesu FT2980 with 4 power levels and 75W max. Get the Mars mod to allow using all the other bands, also the programming SW, and handbook (Giga parts). Less than $300 for a great radio setup. Add the following: This radio will work fine with the PCI Intercom for 2 persons Like the 4 link pro setup with helmet or headphone option. Tip: Make sure you understand the connection wiring for the radio to intercom to headset/helmet.
For an open UTV I would think a helmet with air pumper would be most desirable. Or skip the heasdset/helmet and just turn up the radio volume.
The last thing needed is a 5/8 antenna with NMO mount and some Coax.
With the above you can communicate with just about anybody due to the long range capability and multitude of the bands.
Check with Rugged Radios for comparable setup.
Get a magnetic mike mount like Vava.
Can your CanAm handle 75 watts?
======= =
Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP  
Great info above. It makes my head hurt!

I am looking at a set up for my Can Am UTV. I am looking at the PCI intercom and radio package.

https://www.pciraceradios.com/collections/trax-intercom-pack...

It's a lot of money, but it is pretty much plug and play and gives me all of the things I'm looking for.
My concern though is the two way radio. Is 50 amps enough? It doesn't have the MARS/CAP mod, is that necessary?
If I go with another radio it won't interface with the intercom, which will suck, the radio they include has been modded to integrate into their system.

Thanks for any help in advanced. Type slow, I've hit my head a few times :?:

JZ - 9-13-2018 at 07:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP  
Great info above. It makes my head hurt!

I am looking at a set up for my Can Am UTV. I am looking at the PCI intercom and radio package.

https://www.pciraceradios.com/collections/trax-intercom-pack...

It's a lot of money, but it is pretty much plug and play and gives me all of the things I'm looking for.
My concern though is the two way radio. Is 50 amps enough? It doesn't have the MARS/CAP mod, is that necessary?
If I go with another radio it won't interface with the intercom, which will suck, the radio they include has been modded to integrate into their system.

Thanks for any help in advanced. Type slow, I've hit my head a few times :?:


$2,200, come on man. Read through the thread. Look what PaulW wrote. Don't p!ss your money away.

We built the config for you. Just add the intercom/headset pieces.


[Edited on 9-14-2018 by JZ]

ehall - 9-14-2018 at 04:55 AM

$314 bucks from giga parts shipped to my door.
Yaesu ft2980r - 80 watts
Modded for full tx and rx 144-174 mhz
Compatible 2m antennae
NMO mount
Coax
Software and programming cord

Will try to get it installed this weekend

PaulW - 9-14-2018 at 05:58 AM

The best plan for radios is pick the model you like and do a search for the lowest price. The result is I have used Giga, Red dog, and Ebay. These sellers like mail order and have very low margins. And they do not target the high end racer community, and do not offer expensive at the race support (and do not locate their facility in places like CA). Your buddies do support just as good IMO, just ask for help. Same drill is applicable for CB as well as VHF.
The latest offerings in the HAM world have greatly improved and approach the high end commercial versions for VHF/2 meter. The HAM issue is a single band which means they all need the mod to include all the bands. It is still unknown is if the HAM units have the durability of the high end commercial units, but in my experience I have had no such issues. Never have a radio fail in all these years. The biggest issue for any radio in the antenna and its connections. Good installation and constant preventive maintenance is the rule. The darn antennas take a beating especially in Baja. This comment applies to handhelds doubly - all are fragile and wont take any abuse.

Pacifico - 9-14-2018 at 06:23 AM

Just got an email this morning...Rugged is having a 25% off storewide sale, September 14th - 24th.

DouglasP - 9-14-2018 at 09:02 AM

Okay, first off thanks for the quick replies. Lots of info.

PaulW- It looks like you are on to exactly what I'm trying to do. I really want the versatility and power of the Yaesu FT-2980 with the MARS/CAP mod. I was just not sure if it would interface with the PCI intercom system. If I am understanding you correctly, it will. But it will only work for two out of the four headsets, which is fine. Couple questions for you:
1) Can you point me in the right direction on how to accomplish this? I'm handy with a soldering iron, as long as I know which wires go where.
2) My (admittedly) limited knowledge on antennas is you need one for VHF and one for UHF. Is that where your suggestion of a 5/8 comes in? Can you 'splain that one to me?

ehall-That's the system i'm looking for, if Paul or some one else can help with the integration issues.


JZ-"We built the config for you. Just add the intercom/headset pieces."
It's the intercom/headset pieces that are the spendy part, not the two way radio. :biggrin:

Thanks to all who have responded for your help and patience.

gnukid - 9-14-2018 at 09:27 AM

It seems there is room in the market for a multi band (MURS) FRS/GRMS VOX bluetooth waterproof 2 way radio for off road, boating, skiing in groups?

Here is an interesting article on using 2 way radios on bikes with headsets bluetooth and multiple band radios.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-two-way-radio/

Sena SMH10-10 Motorcycle Bluetooth Headset/Intercom (Single)
https://amzn.to/2QCv3S1

Baofeng BF-F8HP (UV-5R 3rd Gen) 8-Watt Dual Band Two-Way Radio (136-174Mhz VHF & 400-520Mhz UHF) Includes Full Kit
https://amzn.to/2OygZrp

Baofeng Black UV-5R V2+ Plus (USA Warranty) Dual-Band 145-155/400-480 MHz FM Ham Two-way Radio
https://amzn.to/2QEh3r0

Programming Baofeng, Kenwood, frequencies with the cable and CHIRP software

Programming cable
https://amzn.to/2Df4IqK

Nagoya antenna 16inch
https://amzn.to/2MFQjDe

Guide
https://geekprepper.org/program-a-baofeng-radio-with-chirp/

Chirp Software
https://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Home


Que tipo de comms tienes?


[Edited on 9-18-2018 by gnukid]

StuckSucks - 9-14-2018 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall  
Yaesu ft2980r - 80 watts


Can be had on Amazon for 166$

ehall - 9-14-2018 at 09:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks  
Quote: Originally posted by ehall  
Yaesu ft2980r - 80 watts


Can be had on Amazon for 166$


159.95 with free shipping at Gigaparts

Hook - 9-14-2018 at 10:04 AM

I really think the 2980 is the way to go. 75 watts is a lot of power from a mobile rig.

But I am a little concerned about the lack of a cooling fan, if running in a hot car environment. Predecessors of that model DID have overheating problems in hot environments. There's only so much a heat sink can do in a hot environment.

JZ - 9-14-2018 at 11:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks  
Quote: Originally posted by ehall  
Yaesu ft2980r - 80 watts


Can be had on Amazon for 166$


That one doesn't have the MARS/CAP Modification though. The one I bought off Amazon came with the mod.


[Edited on 9-14-2018 by JZ]

PaulW - 9-14-2018 at 01:07 PM

No issue with no fan. Only gets warm during transmit. Mine sits next to the roof on my Jeep and that black roof gets really hot.

PaulW - 9-14-2018 at 01:21 PM

1) Discuss intercom with the tech guy at Giga and ask for help or referral. Or search for "intercom for Ft2980"
For a 4 seater then choose another intercom. I always have only used a 2 position one.
Like I said before look into Rugged and evaluate his intercoms then call and ask how to do adaptability to an EXISTING radio to avoid the sales pitch for his radio.
2) One antenna for both. You probably will not be using UHF except for Noaa weather. There are other freqs you may want to use, but most of us are happy with a 5/8 tuned for "weatherman". Tune antenna with an SWR device or just follow the instructions on the antenna package Either way will be fine. Don't spend extra money for the dual band antenna, Not worth it - IMO.
Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP  
Okay, first off thanks for the quick replies. Lots of info.

PaulW- It looks like you are on to exactly what I'm trying to do. I really want the versatility and power of the Yaesu FT-2980 with the MARS/CAP mod. I was just not sure if it would interface with the PCI intercom system. If I am understanding you correctly, it will. But it will only work for two out of the four headsets, which is fine. Couple questions for you:
1) Can you point me in the right direction on how to accomplish this? I'm handy with a soldering iron, as long as I know which wires go where.
2) My (admittedly) limited knowledge on antennas is you need one for VHF and one for UHF. Is that where your suggestion of a 5/8 comes in? Can you 'splain that one to me?

ehall-That's the system i'm looking for, if Paul or some one else can help with the integration issues.


JZ-"We built the config for you. Just add the intercom/headset pieces."
It's the intercom/headset pieces that are the spendy part, not the two way radio. :biggrin:

Thanks to all who have responded for your help and patience.

TMW - 9-14-2018 at 01:23 PM

A couple of things to consider about the radios. For best results you should wire the radio directly to the battery using the proper size wire. An 80 watt radio with draw about 15 amps. While a 14 gauge wire will work it would be best to use a 12 gauge or even a 10 gauge for less IR drop.

Also when you double the power such as 40 watts to 80 watts you increase the distant by the square root. For example if you could transit 40 miles at 40 watts, you'll go about 57 miles at 80 watts. Doubling the power does not double the distance.

Another thing to keep in mind is the ground plane. Generally speaking the more metal area under the antenna where it attaches will provide the best signal in that direction. In other words if you mounted an antenna in the middle of the roof the signal would radiate equally in all directions. If there is more metal toward the front than rear the best signal will radiate best toward the front.

PaulW - 9-14-2018 at 01:28 PM

Hi Jack,
I use a 5.8 tuned for my overpriced Yaesu VX5R and the distance demonstrated is outstanding. Its a 5 watt unit.
Confirm rubber ducky is poor, but the cheater 1/4 antenna is better, but not even close to the 5/8.

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
A 5/8 wavelength antenna typically has a gain factor of about 2 dB due to the directivity of the radiation. That excludes losses from coaxial connectors and feedlines. The 2 dB factor is a power (watt) multiplier. For a 5 watt output radio that would result in approximately 10 watts effective radiated power (ERP). The simple rubber ducky or tiny whip does not increase ERP, but reduces it. 5/8 wavelength antennas for mobile use are common and much more effective than a simple whip antenna. If you need greater distance on VHF freqs look at the antenna.

Jack, N1IY

PaulW - 9-14-2018 at 01:47 PM

Tom,
Good tips. The 2980 comes with fat and very flexible wires
Another tip from Weatherman is increase you engine rpms to get the voltage up when transmitting over long distances.
My trick when I have to use auto store stiff wires is use two of them. Sure makes it easier to install. So a couple of 14s will work better than 12 or 10s. Did not do the math but 2 flexy is much easier than one stiff.

I did not know that UTVs could handle such high amps considering most have high draw lighting on when using the radio?

Yes for a UTV most come with a plastic roof so they have a compromised ground plane. Not able to quantify the TX/RX degradation, but is sure matters. Get a metal roof for the UTV.
Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
A couple of things to consider about the radios. For best results you should wire the radio directly to the battery using the proper size wire. An 80 watt radio with draw about 15 amps. While a 14 gauge wire will work it would be best to use a 12 gauge or even a 10 gauge for less IR drop.

Also when you double the power such as 40 watts to 80 watts you increase the distant by the square root. For example if you could transit 40 miles at 40 watts, you'll go about 57 miles at 80 watts. Doubling the power does not double the distance.

Another thing to keep in mind is the ground plane. Generally speaking the more metal area under the antenna where it attaches will provide the best signal in that direction. In other words if you mounted an antenna in the middle of the roof the signal would radiate equally in all directions. If there is more metal toward the front than rear the best signal will radiate best toward the front.

JZ - 9-14-2018 at 01:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
1) Discuss intercom with the tech guy at Giga and ask for help or referral. Or search for "intercom for Ft2980"
For a 4 seater then choose another intercom. I always have only used a 2 position one.
Like I said before look into Rugged and evaluate his intercoms then call and ask how to do adaptability to an EXISTING radio to avoid the sales pitch for his radio.
2) One antenna for both. You probably will not be using UHF except for Noaa weather. There are other freqs you may want to use, but most of us are happy with a 5/8 tuned for "weatherman". Tune antenna with an SWR device or just follow the instructions on the antenna package Either way will be fine. Don't spend extra money for the dual band antenna, Not worth it - IMO.



Why do you have to "tune the antenna?" I didn't do this and it works fine.

Jack Swords - 9-14-2018 at 05:26 PM

Couple of clarifications: MARS is Military Auxiliary Radio System and the CAP is Civilian Air Patrol. MARS/CAP modifications enable radios to operate on those frequencies (among others, of course). Antennas are resonant devices and should be lengthened or shortened for optimum efficiency at a particular frequency. The aforementioned SWR tuning is to assure maximum efficiency from a transmitter (and receiver) to the feedline (coax) and the antenna. A high SWR indicates reflected power back to the transmitter and not radiated from the antenna. When operating low power VHF and UHF equipment every radiated watt is important, usually called ERP or effective radiated power. Remember a licensed HAM can use up to 1000 watts of power. Also, solid state transmitters can be harmed by using a feedline and antenna with high SWR. The old tube type, not so much. In the interest of efficiency and results it is better to have a tuned antenna system.

JZ - 9-14-2018 at 06:44 PM

Ok, ok, but for the average person running this setup in Baja you can just buy an antenna and stick it on the top of your truck. We aren't running 1,000 watt radios in our trucks. TWM makes a very good point about putting it in the middle.

All this talk about "programming" the radio with a cable and "tuning" the antenna scares folks off. And that leads them to think they need to pay someone $2.2K to make a radio setup for them.


[Edited on 9-15-2018 by JZ]

TMW - 9-14-2018 at 07:35 PM

JZ yes you can do as you say but what Jack is saying allows the radio to work at it's best. For the most part you may never notice a difference but should you get separated over a longer distance is when it makes a difference.

As to programming the radios somewhere I have the instructions for programming the Baofeng radios with a PC. For me I just tune it to the frequency I will be using and that's it. I normally use my Yaesu FT-2600M mobile and tuning is pretty easy just turn the front panel knob. My Baofeng radios are also easy. I usually use 151.625mhz (Weatherman) except during a SCORE race. I don't need to program a hundred channels but I do have a PCI radio with I think 140 channels programmed into it, every race team in the southwest I think. I never did get a list from PCI so I have to click thru to find what I'm looking for.

Hook - 9-14-2018 at 10:34 PM

What band are the racers using? Sounds like a band between the 2 meter band and the marine band.

ehall - 9-15-2018 at 04:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
What band are the racers using? Sounds like a band between the 2 meter band and the marine band.


Google score race team frequencies. About 5 pages worth.

PaulW - 9-15-2018 at 06:34 AM

lots of questions I will try to answer.
Please read all my comments and reply if I mis-stated anything.

Racers use VHF band which is around 100 to 216 MHz.
UHF is seldom (never ?) used and is 450 to 952 MHz
For a hand held:
They come with a utility antenna called a rubber ducky that can be optimized. Many places offer an optional antenna to improve range. Connecting a hand held to an mobile antenna greatly improves range.
Tuning for a mobile or handheld with a 5/8 antenna is done by cutting the antenna to a length defined by frequency. This is done with a SWR device to measure or by following the chart that comes with the antenna. Either way will result in acceptable result. The SWR method will be more precise because it will compensate for your vehicle - reflection or shielding from the metal body. Buy an antenna from PCI and they will ask you what frequency. Not recommended because they will send you the thing coiled up and it can not be straightened. Buy for a HAM dealer and it will come straight in a long box. I have four antennas for my hand held and use them for various vehicles or when walking around away from my vehicles.
The 4 antennas are the rubber ducky, the cheater whip which is around 18 " long (bought from the HAM dealer for a pittance), the 1/4 wave mag mount with coax, and the 5/8 with coax for my aluminum pickup (and tuned specifically with SWR for that truck and its unusual fender mount). 1/4 wave do not need tuning. 5/8 require a specific length for optimum range.
Antenna that comes with the hand held cannot be tuned, My cheater whip antenna for my hand held cannot be tuned. Some handhelds come with a rubber ducky with a pre-tuned extension for use with the higher frequencies.

Race frequencies are widely available from buddies or PCI or Rugged. Just do a search. Nice to have when watching a race. However maybe 1/2 of the teams are now using Sat radio so you will never be able to listen in on their chat. Program your radio to suit the guys you run around with. Most of us have alternate freqs and its nice to do a quick switch back and forth when switching friends. It is always a pain always ask what frequency and wait while some have to change their frequencies. I program my radios so the display is a name not a freq.
Please note that there is a band called GMRS in the UHF band and it requires a licence in the US ($70). Do not program your radio for these freqs.
Marine & NOAA & MURS are in the VHF band.
FRS is in the UHF band. If you use these freqs turn your power down as low as possible to avoid the anger of the feds.
Look up the aircraft freqs and program them for RX (receive) only. The local airport tower is interesting.
It is important in the states look up the commercial licensed freqs Search to find) and do not use them to avoid the anger of the feds. These freqs vary from place to place. I never use my VHF radio in the states. In the states use a CB to avoid all the regulations. They are in both VHF and UHF bands. Yup, 2 radios.

DouglasP - 9-15-2018 at 07:44 AM

Paul, great stuff. Really clears up a lot of the lingo that is used and makes it easier to understand. Thank you for taking the time to do this!

DouglasP - 9-15-2018 at 08:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
And that leads them to think they need to pay someone $2.2K to make a radio setup for them.


[Edited on 9-15-2018 by JZ]


Dude, it's not the radio that costs 2K. It's the blue tooth enabled, true stereo, four person capable intercom with four sets of carbon fiber, noise cancelling, 1.3 pound headsets. The radio that comes with their system adds like 300 bucks to the package. Damn.
If I just wanted a two way radio to plop on the transmission tunnel and an antenna to huck on the roof, I'd be done already. SMH.

Hook - 9-15-2018 at 08:30 PM

Well, based on this document I found on the internet, it appears that the racer's frequencies are about 99% between 150 mhz and 155 mhz. So, between the ham 2-meter band and the marine band.

This document also lists a few repeaters in Mexico that are generally within the accepted 2 meter band (144-148). There are also a couple teams using frequencies in the 70cm ham band. But not many.

I also found anecdotal evidence that the overall Weatherman frequency for race updates is usually 151.625.

This list appears to be about seven years old.

https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/attachments/raceradiofrequ...

gnukid - 10-2-2018 at 09:46 PM

Racers, input requested about a bumper or roof mount uhf vhf antenna e.g for Baofeng BF-F8HP to connect handheld or mounted mobile to longer antenna in vehicle? Looking for mounted antenna for uhf vhf variable handheld, bumper or roof mont magnet?

Baofeng BF-F8HP
https://amzn.to/2OAsB04

16 inch Nagoya antenna
https://amzn.to/2DR2uxV

SMA-F UHF+VHF Magnetic Vehicle-mounted Antenna
https://amzn.to/2NYFAsY

Jack Swords - 10-3-2018 at 05:05 PM

Do some reading on the fake Nagoya antennas. The 2nd one cited has reviews that are not good. Also it is rated for only 10 watts. Perhaps you need one for more power. Amazon does have the "authentic" Nagoya antenna for the same price ($16.99). Amazon calls it Nagoya whereas the one cited does not state the brand nor the model number (should be in the 700s).
See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KC4PWQQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?ps...

Best if mounted on roof for height and additional ground plane effect. Mag antennas work well.

Jack, N1IY