BajaNomad

all around kayak

bike4mee - 6-30-2018 at 09:35 AM

Hey
Well after pulling a 17' foot boat around baja last winter I decided that a good kayak would be better for nomading baja. It's easier to launch and load anywhere. If I was going to stay in one place for awhile I would bring the boat again.
This forum doesn't have a sea kayak forum, or does it. I need recs on a good all around kayak that fishes but can handle the afternoon wind and waves. It's got to be light enough that I can get it on top of the camper. Any advice or links?
thanks

David K - 6-30-2018 at 09:44 AM

Right here: http://forums.bajanomad.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=19

DavidT - 6-30-2018 at 10:05 AM

Big Water's Edge

Warning: NSFW, or your wallet.
Kayaks and fish porn.

bkbend - 6-30-2018 at 10:43 AM

I'm no expert on kayaks but I do fish in Baja from one and I can throw out some observations and let the experts pick them apart.

All-around is going to be tough to find, you'll need to make compromises at some point. For ease of paddling and speed for point to point trips you want long and skinny with a slick hull surface. But then you have a small c-ckpit and a tippy platform for fishing.

I use a medium width sit-on-top for fishing but it's a slug to paddle for a long distance. I do like the way it handles in the wind and waves as long as I'm going downwind. Weight is dependent on size to some degree but mostly on materials. Lighter kayaks use expensive materials and will cost more and, in some cases, will be more fragile if your hanging around rocks. Mine is a heavy roto-molded kayak but it's been bullet-proof and I can get it onto a full sized pickup with a canopy.

Eventually I picked up a used sea kayak to use if I'm not fishing and want to cover some ground. I've tried fishing from it but it didn't really work well. I couldn't compromise enough to make it with just one kayak. Have fun in your search.

https://paddling.com/learn/types-of-kayak-materials/
https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/kayak.html
https://1source.basspro.com/index.php/component/k2/81-kayaki...

Alm - 6-30-2018 at 12:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bike4mee  

This forum doesn't have a sea kayak forum, or does it. I need recs on a good all around kayak that fishes but can handle the afternoon wind and waves. It's got to be light enough that I can get it on top of the camper. Any advice or links?
thanks

Nope, not much discussion of sea kayaks here at Nomads, better check http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/community/forums/general-pad...

There is no such thing as "good all around kayak". Sea kayak is one thing, "fishing kayak" is another - think wide, slow and heavy sit-on-top. Plenty of forums on fishing kayaks, dozens.

Small c.ockpit of a sea kayak is typically the case, but there are few exceptions - Kruger Sea Wind, Canadian Clipper Sea One and some others. 9 foot long c.ockpit in those. They are sometimes called "decked canoes", 28" wide, not too skinny.

Also, what "camper"? Shell is one thing, truck camper is another. There is no easy way to load 60lbs 12ft long 30" wide fishing kayak on 9-10ft high roof of a truck camper. Kevlar sea kayak 16ft long 25" wide will weigh 45-50 lbs, still difficult to load. Fiberglass is cheaper and heavier than Kevlar. Polyethylene (rotomold) is cheaper and heavier yet. There are some $$$ gizmos to help with loading on a camper, not familiar with those.

And, please somebody tell that editing robot that c.o.c.k.p.i.t has nothing to do with c.o.c.k

[Edited on 6-30-2018 by Alm]

sancho - 6-30-2018 at 12:45 PM

I have a sit on top 14' Necky Dolphin, all the plastic boats
are heavy 60#, I tend it favor the '12 models to transport.
Sure the fiberglass, carbon sit in side, narrow, will cover
ground, but how often will you want to go 20 mi.? Wilderness
Systems makes a Tarpon line, 12,13,14, sit on top, Hobie
has taken a huge chunk of the market with
their peddle kayaks, as pointed out a true kayak for all
applications probably doesn't exist. I would pick one
off craigs list


imlost - 6-30-2018 at 01:04 PM

Since you're planning to fish from it, I'd go with a Hobie with a Mirage Drive. Lets your legs do the work, and your hands can be free to handle a rod/reel.

Maderita - 6-30-2018 at 01:05 PM

Your original post makes it sound like you have little experience with kayaks. Sorry if I have that wrong.
Sit-on-top polyethylene rotomolded kayaks are easy to learn, self-bailing (drain holes), less expensive, and can take a lot of abuse.

Unless you are proficient in rolling, self-rescue, wet entry and bailing, a kayak with a c-ckpit is dangerous. Particularly when solo. You could start with buying a sit-on-top or rent to try it out on the bay. You might find that it meets your needs. Or, you might get into the sport, acquire lessons and knowledge, and upgrade in the future. In that case, the low initial investment and good resale value of your sit-on-top will have paid off.

As to loading on a roof, a lot depends on your size and strength. It's like loading lumber onto a truck rack: you only have to lift one end at a time. If the rear rack is placed close to the rear of the roof, lift the bow and place it onto the rack. Then lift the stern and push forward. Some racks have carpet or rollers or a "saddle." A polyethylene kayak can be dropped onto the front cross bar once pushed 60% forward. (Not the way to treat a fiberglass/kevlar kayak). If the roof rack is higher than your reach, back the vehicle up to a slope/hill before loading.

If offshore father than you'd want to swim, use a paddle leash.

Alm - 6-30-2018 at 02:09 PM

This method - lifting the bow on the rack, then lifting the stern and pushing/dropping - will work on a car or truck, including camper shells. Truck camper is a bit higher. It's not clear what kind of "camper" he's got. Or - if it has a kayak-specific rack and/or rollers (probably none, since there is no mention of previous experience with kayaks).

del mar - 6-30-2018 at 03:44 PM

pass on the Tupperwear and get a smaller inflatable!;)

Bob and Susan - 6-30-2018 at 05:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by del mar  
pass on the Tupperwear and get a smaller inflatable!;)


I agree...a kayak is ALOT of work...a kayak with flippers will make the legs "burn"

if you don't want to "trailer" get an inflatable with a new motor

wilderone - 6-30-2018 at 05:15 PM

"Unless you are proficient in rolling, self-rescue, wet entry and bailing, a kayak with a c-ckpit is dangerous"
So is a heavy, slow sit-on-top after you've drifted out and the wind and whitecaps and troughs roll in, and you're trying to slug that thing back to shore against the wind and current.
If you want to paddle around bay to bay to a snorkel site or a secluded beach, hugging the shore, you can get a small whitewater kayak.
I would also suggest a one-man zodiac with v. small motor for fishing.
If you really get into traveling by kayak, join a kayak group and learn all about packing, self-rescue, gear accessories. I disagree that a sea kayak is dangerous - what creates danger is one's lack of proficiency and good sense - not the boat per se.

taoswheat - 6-30-2018 at 05:39 PM

I fished the San Carlos area with a Hobie Outback pedal kayak with good success. The pedal power is great for fishing as it leaves both hands available for fishing. I often went out 5-8 miles. To make loading on my SUV easy, I had a 2" square tube about 5' long that went into my rear hitch. Another 1" tube about 3' long was vertical and on top was a boat trailer bow roller. The vertical 1" tube plugged into a square tube at the back of the 2" tube. I just picked up the front of the kayak and set it on the roller. Then I went to the rear of the kayak, picked it up and rolled it up onto the SUV roof carrier. Not zero effort, but very workable for an old guy. Sorry I don't have any pictures.

[Edited on 7-1-2018 by taoswheat]

Alm - 6-30-2018 at 06:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by del mar  
pass on the Tupperwear and get a smaller inflatable!;)

Another alternative would be a foldable kayak
https://long-haul-folding-kayaks.myshopify.com/collections/b...

Not cheap, but consider that this is labor-intensive product, many parts, and it's made in the US. Not some Chinese vinyl. You can take it apart for storage and traveling. I used to check it in air luggage, 2 bags - when owned it. Takes half an hour to assemble if you're not in a hurry, but most people choose to keep it assembled and car-top.

28" beam, not very wide, but it's darn stable with rounded sides because of interior sponsons. Heavier and slower than narrow 24" sea kayak, still way faster than a typical sit-on-top fishing kayak. 50" long c-ckpit. Germans used to make a very similar Klepper. If you choose the "folding" route, people at http://foldingkayaks.org/phpBB/ forum will be happy to provide tips, do's and don'ts etc. Note that some brands listed on the forum are no longer in production.

I never tried a sit-on-top, but they seem to serve the purpose of fishing better than sea kayaks and are better to paddle (or pedal), legs are stronger than hands. Rod-holders and many other features and add-ons developed for this type of boat with fishing in mind. Capsizing in one would be very difficult in any but very bad weather - which can happen in Baja on a very short notice.

Inflatable bagels are only good on a small lake. They are not for paddling, you'll need a 2-4 HP motor, and it won't do much against 12-15-knot wind. But then, even a 20HP motor on a real boat won't help when heavy Western blows on Sea of Cortez - and it's always sudden.

[Edited on 7-1-2018 by Alm]

Doug/Vamonos - 6-30-2018 at 06:12 PM

We all have personal opinions, right? Mine is that blow up boats suck. I owned two of them and ended up hating both. I will never own one again. I have an OceanKayak Prowler 15. I bought it used on CL all set up for fishing for a couple hundred bucks. It's a good fishing kayak. And it is roomy. I'm 6'5" and pretty strong and I'll tell you it takes all my effort to load on top of my F-250 camper shell. You'd think it would be simple since it's plastic and supposedly weighs 80 or so pounds. But it is an unwieldy beast. Unless I had a lot of money to spend on plastic stuff, I'd look for a used one that is all set up. In the case of kayaks, used is as good as new, in my personal opinion.

Alm - 6-30-2018 at 06:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Doug/Vamonos  
We all have personal opinions, right? Mine is that blow up boats suck. I owned two of them and ended up hating both.

Blow-up boat is a term too broad. This may include 5ft inflatable dinghy, a Zodiak, an inflatable kayak like Grabner or Inova, or even a foldable kayak that has air pockets along the sides (used for tensioning the frame, not for buoyancy).

Sorry, but a used kayak is not as good as new. This is especially true for Polyethylene rotomolded hulls that suffer UV degradation more than composite hulls. As the first kayak, to get the feel of it - yes, get some used one.

AKgringo - 6-30-2018 at 06:58 PM

I loved my Zodiacs! The OP asked about kayaks though, so I won't hijack this thread talking about their strengths, and shortcomings....unless he wants to hear more.

del mar - 6-30-2018 at 07:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
I loved my Zodiacs! The OP asked about kayaks though, so I won't hijack this thread talking about their strengths, and shortcomings....unless he wants to hear more.


his boat IS an inflatable, no need to sell him on blow-ups!;)

Barry A. - 6-30-2018 at 07:20 PM

I always used a 14' Gregor alum. boat, and I had no problem launching it from anywhere in Baja, never using a "ramp". It sat on top of my 50" high Callen steel-framed camper shell with custom rack & platform, and I could load and unload it myself with relatively little effort. 15 hp Motor went inside my camper, between my two built-in bed boxes.. Went that way for over 40 years with no problems. Love my "tin boat", and it was so versatile. LOL

Just an alternative thought.

Alm - 6-30-2018 at 08:47 PM

Looks like the OP is gone.

He did ask about kayaks - and inflatable "kayaks" do exist, but I think he needs to clear a few things out first. Kayaking or fishing, how far, and what "camper".

Hook - 6-30-2018 at 10:06 PM

Any inflatable boat that requires a motor is a PITA, if it is not on a trailer.

And then there are the limitations and maintenance issues of a trailer..........

I like the plastic, sit on top kayaks. If they have been damaged by sun, it will be apparent.

I've seen people use carpet runners with a rubber backing on the rear of their vehicle, especially if it is an SUV or a sedan/coupe. The kayak can be slid along the rug surface from the back of the vehicle by one person until it is on the rack on the roof.

But for a camper, one should probably investigate the inflatable Sea Eagles or other brands, if you are not willing to tow a utility trailer that can accommodate a rigid kayak.

bike4mee - 7-1-2018 at 07:08 AM

Hey
thanks for the response. I have kayaked the grand canyon many times in the past. now that I'm retired I like nomading Baja in the winter in my pop up camper on the back of my tundra. Kayaking is the way for me. There are so many plastic boats out there these days. I think a 10'+ sit in type that has a spray skirt will work for short overnights out to islands and can paddle troll along while getting there. Will check out some of the other forums as to fishing with kayaks. thanks

Udo - 7-1-2018 at 07:31 AM

Way to go, DK!

I have been on this forum for quite a long time and had no idea such a thread even existed. As a matter of fact, I have bought and sold three kayaks (now on my 4th. kayak...a Hobie Tandem Island).

Thanks!
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Right here: http://forums.bajanomad.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=19

Marc - 7-1-2018 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Quote: Originally posted by del mar  
pass on the Tupperwear and get a smaller inflatable!;)

Another alternative would be a foldable kayak
https://long-haul-folding-kayaks.myshopify.com/collections/b...

Not cheap, but consider that this is labor-intensive product, many parts, and it's made in the US. Not some Chinese vinyl. You can take it apart for storage and traveling. I used to check it in air luggage, 2 bags - when owned it. Takes half an hour to assemble if you're not in a hurry, but most people choose to keep it assembled and car-top.

28" beam, not very wide, but it's darn stable with rounded sides because of interior sponsons. Heavier and slower than narrow 24" sea kayak, still way faster than a typical sit-on-top fishing kayak. 50" long c-ckpit. Germans used to make a very similar Klepper. If you choose the "folding" route, people at http://foldingkayaks.org/phpBB/ forum will be happy to provide tips, do's and don'ts etc. Note that some brands listed on the forum are no longer in production.

I never tried a sit-on-top, but they seem to serve the purpose of fishing better than sea kayaks and are better to paddle (or pedal), legs are stronger than hands. Rod-holders and many other features and add-ons developed for this type of boat with fishing in mind. Capsizing in one would be very difficult in any but very bad weather - which can happen in Baja on a very short notice.

Inflatable bagels are only good on a small lake. They are not for paddling, you'll need a 2-4 HP motor, and it won't do much against 12-15-knot wind. But then, even a 20HP motor on a real boat won't help when heavy Western blows on Sea of Cortez - and it's always sudden.

[Edited on 7-1-2018 by Alm]


Kleppers; Burma 1999. These two seaters pack into either two or three bags . I have taken mine by air everywhere. One hour (or three beers) to assemble. Bags go into the back or on top easy. Good for fishing.
I had a Perception kayak sit on top in Baja. Heavy and slow but great for fishing and snorkeling.


[Edited on 7-1-2018 by Marc]

chippy - 7-1-2018 at 01:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by imlost  
Since you're planning to fish from it, I'd go with a Hobie with a Mirage Drive. Lets your legs do the work, and your hands can be free to handle a rod/reel.



Bingo! Hands free fishing. I can peddle alot faster than I could ever paddle.

watizname - 7-2-2018 at 08:06 AM

Hobie with Mirage. Outback model. Stable, easy to troll peddling. Only drawback is weight, but its not a deal breaker.