Mexico, Canada insist on three-way deal as NAFTA talks resume

I say build a wall on both borders--

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGlenn

I say build a wall on both borders--

I'm all for it, if it includes the Alaska/Yukon border! It would not make any difference that matters, and would bring so many jobs to the area that Canada would probably want a wall also.

I might even come out of retirement for that one, and by the way, Alsakans are already major players in the border security business;

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/local/alaska-native-corporati...

Edited to include sarcasm smiles (as suggested by Ged)



[Edited on 7-27-2018 by AKgringo]

A wall, eh?! Well, if it keeps Trumpsters out of Canada, I guess it's a good idea

Gary....please explain why you think it's a good idea.....and why you think Canadians would think it's a good idea?

Especially when you say " It would not make any difference that matters". ...

And to build a wall as a job creation project totally misconstrues the gesture/intent.

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

... can you imagine me turning in an honest days work again?

...Perhaps not....but you don't need to turn off your brain ...

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

.... and your point is....?

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

Hey Ged......have time to check your CA immigration notes yet? Seems they do the SAME exact thing as US agents do......interdict smugglers of all sorts.... Agreed?

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali   Hey Ged......have time to check your CA immigration notes yet? Seems they do the SAME exact thing as US agents do......interdict smugglers of all sorts.... Agreed? I didn't know the CA system, kidnaps young immigrant children, and separates them from their parents like the US system! Same thing DaliDali, really?

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

DD, Do your own research on Canadian immigration laws and practices is what I suggested you do..... Do you really think I would run off and take notes to respond to your inflexible thinking? Or that I would research the project to get into a dead-end conversation here? If I had to explain how Canadian officials handle immigration....you might not get it.... JJJ gets it

A 3 way deal sounds ok to me....

Mexico and Canada can sell their goods into the US if there is a market for them and the US can sell their goods to them if there is a market.

The sticking points are how much are you going to charge the US in tariffs for your goods and how much is the US going to charge you for your goods.

The US paying upwards of 30% tariffs for MX or CA goods brought in, and then the US only charging MX and CA less than 5% is NOT a fair deal.

Same deal with Asian countries...they charge the US hefty tariffs for our cars going there and then expect us to pay their full freight tariffs for cars the US imports.

The current administration is on the right track...
Make it fair.......you charge me $50 bucks......I charge you $50 bucks......or just zero it out.......FREE trade.....imagine that.

For decades, markets have been screaming some foreign countries are jacking the USA up badly on trade....
Now along come a President who wants to do something about that imbalance and some people just go nuts.

Some don't like it screaming "protectionism"
While CA and MX and other countries do their own version of this protectionism and no one bats an eye.

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

A 3 way deal sounds ok to me.... Make it fair.......you charge me $50 bucks......I charge you $50 bucks..... The current administration is on the right track... .or just zero it out.......FREE trade.....imagine that. Some don't like it screaming "protectionism" While CA and MX and other countries do their own version of this protectionism and no one bats an eye.

Well,
Your boy in the WH (not for long....) started the trade war....Canada responded with well-identified equivalent responses....so there is your tit-for-tat response you applaud:
"Make it fair.......you charge me $50 bucks......I charge you $50 bucks.....".
Products taxed by Canada are those mainstays manufactured in Trump states....so the Canadian response was at least better researched and targeted than Trump's

A fair number of US businesses have been negatively affected by US tariffs.....

You can google that, so please don't suggest I feed you "my notes".... just copy and paste "us businesses hurt by trump trade war"....

a hint: farmers , Harley Davidson, car and boat manufacturers

[Edited on 8-24-2018 by motoged]

Isn't it you and me, the consumers, who end up paying for the tariffs placed on imported goods?

Great idea.

or this:

"Harley-Davidson plans to shift a portion of its U.S. motorcycle manufacturing capacity to foreign markets after a trade spat between President Donald Trump and the European Union led to increased tariffs."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/06/25/harley-david...

Yup, Trump is bringing jobs back.........sure.

BTW, I bought a pair of shorts yesterday. The tag says they were made in Jordan. I guess Chinese labor is getting too expensive, or maybe a Chinese company opened shop in Jordan to get around tariffs.


[Edited on 8-24-2018 by SFandH]

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali   Hey Ged......have time to check your CA immigration notes yet? Seems they do the SAME exact thing as US agents do......interdict smugglers of all sorts.... Agreed? I didn't know the CA system, kidnaps young immigrant children, and separates them from their parents like the US system! Same thing DaliDali, really?

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

I might even come out of retirement for that one, and by the way, Alsakans are already major players in the border security business

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

At what point would the Canadians have an opportunity to doing that, JJJ? As the illegals get off the boat or the airplane with all their kids and possessions from Latin America? Your arguments have holes big enough to roll a Catavina boulder through.

Speaking of Canada and lies..................

http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/

NO!!

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo   I might even come out of retirement for that one, and by the way, Alsakans are already major players in the border security business Can't Sarah Palin see Russia from her house? John

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper   Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo   I might even come out of retirement for that one, and by the way, Alsakans are already major players in the border security business Can't Sarah Palin see Russia from her house? John Actually she said "You can see Russia from my state" But then, who these days is trying to be accurate in quoting....

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner   Quote: Originally posted by John Harper   Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo   I might even come out of retirement for that one, and by the way, Alsakans are already major players in the border security business Can't Sarah Palin see Russia from her house? John Actually she said "You can see Russia from my state" But then, who these days is trying to be accurate in quoting.... Since some people cannot tell the difference between Tina and Sarah it says a lot about how much to believe what is being repeated as truth. "I can see Russia from my house" Tina Fey.....priceless!

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

You lied to me Ged....I took you at your word about the notes. I won't tolerate lies Ged.

....


Gee, I hope you get over it...

That last post was not my "notes"....just a few minutes cutting and pasting urls in response to a different poster....

No lies here.....not like your ayatollah ....

I figured you would scribble something like this

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali   You lied to me Ged....I took you at your word about the notes. I won't tolerate lies Ged. .... Gee, I hope you get over it... That last post was not my "notes"....just a few minutes cutting and pasting urls in response to a different poster.... No lies here.....not like your ayatollah .... I figured you would scribble something like this

You could have simply said..."I don't really know the in's and outs of the CA immigration system and I would have accepted that.

You chose to be a smart azz and pimp me off with the snarky comment "I will check my notes".....when you had no intention of checking notes.

You couldn't be a man and just admit it could you Ged?
You took the low road.....to get in another dig because you disagree with my views.

Frankly, I am ashamed for you that you feel obliged to stick me in the eye at every turn.

In the end....you're a liar......and you pimped it off with a as to feign a joke......

I am really disappointed that you have chosen the path of more snarks and digs....all because you feel the need to dig on Trump supporters.

Good night liar Ged.

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper   Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo   I might even come out of retirement for that one, and by the way, Alsakans are already major players in the border security business Can't Sarah Palin see Russia from her house? John Actually she said "You can see Russia from my state" But then, who these days is trying to be accurate in quoting....

It's unfortunate that so many of these Latin American countries are in such a shambles, Ged.

But we are a country that has let the most immigrants in of ANY country in the history of the world. Pardon us for asking that potential immigrants abide by our laws, now. We have always asked that, actually. The Irish and the Germans and the Italians and Eastern Europeans did in the past, when they wanted out of their countries.

We currently have over 47 million immigrants in the US. That's not counting the millions that came here during the great immigration waves of the past century, who are now dead.

That's about 19% of the total number of immigrants IN THE WORLD. In one country. We admit approximately 1.1 million each year, legally.

Canada admits around 300k each year.

Our methods have certainly toughened under The Orange One. Many of these methods, like the separation of families, are draconian. But the deportations started in earnest under Obama. So much so that the numbers being detained went from 850k in the mid 2000s to around 300k now. Obama is the all-time leader in deportations, by far. It's not the open border it used to be.

I consider myself a liberal, but I have no problem with this. Laws are laws. I cant pick and choose the ones I want to obey. Their situation is horrid, no doubt. But there is a limit to what we can do. And our methods should remain humane. Apparently, The Orange One doesn't think so. He's using it as a pre-emptive deterrent, I guess.

BTW, The Wall is a stupid idea, IMO.

Of course, these numbers entering illegally into the US are far in excess of the illegal entries into Canada, in the articles you posted.

Canada is SO fortunate to have the US as a buffer against this tide of unfortunate humanity. They can shed tears for the unfortunates, and all the while chastise the US, because Canada knows it really will never have to walk in our immigration shoes, in this area. Geographic distances from the unfortunates, prevent it. So does a more stringent entry policy on our part.

And, really, any recent increase in undocumenteds/illegals trying to get into Canada from the US are being fed by the estimated 11.5 million illegals in the US, as well. It's not just recent crossers trying to pass through the US. It's ones that managed to get into the US over the years, too.

Think about that. 11.5 million. About a third of the population of all of Canada.

Basically, the US border filters probably 90+% of potential illegal immigrants who MIGHT want to go to Canada from Latin America. If you look at what countries Canadian immigrants, living in Canada, are from, Mexico ranked 23rd, with only 1.07% in 2016.

The countries where Canada has allowed the most immigrants from are where well-to-do immigrants come from. The top five are India, China, Phillipines, UK.........and the US of A. These are people arriving with money;
based on the number of business-owning Chinese and Indians I have seen in Canada. There are six Europeans countries with more immigrants in Canada than any Latin American country, too.

Latin American immigration (the big US immigration problem) into Canada is so low, why bother talking about it, in terms of this discussion?

But.... if Canada would like to announce to Latin America that they will take all those who try and cross the border, illegally, into the US and spend the money to process and transport them, like we have to, I am sure the majority of Americans would be willing to accept that generous offer. Make it retroactive to some of the 11.5 million, too.

But they're gonna need warmer clothing than they have.............

Trudeau says he'll take any and all asylum seekers. But he knows that so few of these Latin American unfortunates can actually get to his border. Not that he wants THOSE types of immigrants, of course. So, he is safe in saying it, even though, according to the articles you posted, Ged, there is a growing disdain for illegal immigration among Canadians, too. It's reversed in four years.

Will Trudeau determine that illegal immigrants from Latin American (or from anywhere) qualify for asylum because the US has decided to more forcefully enforce their laws? Does that qualify for asylum? Maybe he will. I doubt it. They arent well-to-dos.

However, the Toronto Sun article also indicates that 40% of asylum seekers are rejected by Canada and Canadian officials warn that that number will be increasing. Hmmm........that sounds familiar.

And I see the leader of one of your political parties in Quebec has actually suggested, in all seriousness, building a wall along the southern Quebec border. I think I've heard that idea somewhere, too.

Yes, it's unfortunate that so many of these Latin American countries are in such a shambles, Ged.

But very fortunate for Canada that we are between you and they.


[Edited on 8-26-2018 by Hook]

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

Our methods have certainly toughened under The Orange One. Many of these methods, like the separation of families, are draconian. But the deportations started in earnest under Obama. So much so that the numbers being detained went from 850k in the mid 2000s to around 300k now. Obama is the all-time leader in deportations, by far. It's not the open border it used to be. [Edited on 8-26-2018 by Hook]

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Hook, Yes, can't argue or disagree with much of what you said.... but....proportionally, we are taking a fair share... My real gripe in all of this is that I thought the USA was smarter than allowing somebody like Trump to become its president....he simply represents values, morals, and ideologies I find repugnant. The conservative Quebec member of parliament just resigned from his party affiliation and wants to set up his own farther right party... Sure, Canada has its share of racist fearful folks....all coming from immigrant stock....especially fearful and somehow threatened by seeing more folks of colour in our communities.... I hold some "conservative" values, but tend to try to find compassion in the mix.

I'm the same way, Ged. I hold some conservative values, too.

Tough times for moderates like us. The radical right and left have taken over the two major parties in the US. And the Dems think running farther left and keeping Pelosi is the answer? What fools!!

The DNC is the real problem. They fund quashing any moderate Dems. At least they have in the past.

On the wall issue, I think many Canadians outside of Quebec wouldn't mind seeing a wall either. Along the western border of Quebec!

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

The culture of corruption is so strong in Latin America. It's choking the people.

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by Hook   The culture of corruption is so strong in Latin America. It's choking the people. And violence too. There are certainly legitimate and lawful requests for asylum being made by Central Americans making it to the border.

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

I can understand an "ideology" disagreement with Trump....that's cool. But what sticks in my craw about the morals and values side of it is.... No one batted an eye when JFK was shanking Marilyn Monroe while married to Jackie. No one (liberal side) gave it a second thought when Teddy Kennedy was boinking Mary Jo Kopechne and then went on to drive her off into a river while stone drunk and let her die without an attempt to save her.... And then went off to a bar to drown out the sorrows. And gasp......even went on to become the "Lion of the Senate"...held in high esteem by his peers. Willie Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick. Kathleen Wiley accused him of groping her. Willie flipped his schlong out for Paula Jones. Extramarital affairs with Gennifer Flowers. And the infamous Lincoln bedroom tryst with Monika. Liberals at the time never batted an eye..... Willie even went on to get impeached in a GOP lead House after he lied about the whole thing and tried to square it all up with...."I did not have sixxual relations with that woman" The Demos in charge of the Senate gave him a pass and would not convict. They cheered him on..."It was consensual" "It's what adults do" Again.....the Demos cheered and Willie went on to win the next election in a landslide. No liberals were concerned when John Edwards (D) pres candidate was out hopping the Caribbean, shanking a woman not his wife. Even Hillary, in the early years, felt that a past Grand Wizard of the KKK, Robert Byrd (D) VA was her mentor. During the Hillary campaign, charges of sexual misconduct on Bill Clinton's part resurfaced during the 2016 presidential campaign of his wife, Hillary Clinton. When a lewd recording discussing the ability to grope women when in power, was released during the campaign, Bill Clinton's accusers, Broaddrick, Willey, and Jones reemerged as critics of Hillary Clinton, accusing her of enabling her husband's alleged sexual assaults on them. They appeared as guests at the second 2016 presidential debate and referenced Bill Clinton in pre-debate statements. Demos never batted an eye. Disparage the ideologies ok fine... But to call him out on morals and values is over the top hypocrisy. [Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali] [Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator

Despite almost across the board failures of every one of their policies either not doing what it's supposed to, or costing us more instead of less.

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator   Despite almost across the board failures of every one of their policies either not doing what it's supposed to, or costing us more instead of less. Can you come up with an alternative to Social Security, to deal with people that have no retirement savings? What do you do about them, let them die? How do you plan to deal with poor people? How? Let them die too. There will always be poor people as long as we have a market economy, so figure out and tell me how you plan to deal with it. Anything? Can you come up with an alternative to Medicare, that doesn't force sick elderly people to go broke paying insurance premiums? Or families that go bankrupt due to medical expenses? How about any healthcare plan from the right? All you geniuses and not a single workable plan. Great. Can you come up with a plan to deal with our growing national deficit? I hear your critcism of Dem policies, but what reasonable policies do you have to replace them? I have yet to hear you critics come up with anything. Just like the Republicans and healthcare, nothing, nada, squat, zilch. Let's hear an intelligent, well reasoned response, not lefty bashing, okay? I'm sure someone has some ideas, right? Or, just criticism and bitterness? It's a lot easier to throw bricks than build a house. Whattayagot? John [Edited on 8-26-2018 by John Harper]

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

If Trump was so determined to lock Hillary up...........he should have hired her.

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper   Quote: Originally posted by Timinator   Despite almost across the board failures of every one of their policies either not doing what it's supposed to, or costing us more instead of less. Can you come up with an alternative to Social Security, to deal with people that have no retirement savings? What do you do about them, let them die? How do you plan to deal with poor people? How? Let them die too. There will always be poor people as long as we have a market economy, so figure out and tell me how you plan to deal with it. Anything? Can you come up with an alternative to Medicare, that doesn't force sick elderly people to go broke paying insurance premiums? Or families that go bankrupt due to medical expenses? How about any healthcare plan from the right? All you geniuses and not a single workable plan. Great. Can you come up with a plan to deal with our growing national deficit? I hear your critcism of Dem policies, but what reasonable policies do you have to replace them? I have yet to hear you critics come up with anything. Just like the Republicans and healthcare, nothing, nada, squat, zilch. Let's hear an intelligent, well reasoned response, not lefty bashing, okay? I'm sure someone has some ideas, right? Or, just criticism and bitterness? It's a lot easier to throw bricks than build a house. Whattayagot? John [Edited on 8-26-2018 by John Harper] People have choices along the road to make. Some choose a life of easy, taking from others as a way of life and career and some put the energies in listening to their parents, pay attention in school, get a part time job, pay your way through college if desired and strive to get a job that will support them and a family. Those who made the wrong choices in their youth and end up with no savings and a employment record short on credits.Those with criminal records, x cons and pimps will certainly come up short in the golden years. Being young and breaking windows, smashing cars and beating people to a bloody pulp is not the way to make it...and all supported by some radical left benefactor and some radical anarchists. If young people can pay attention, they would know that to succeed in life, they have to put in the blood sweat and tears and EARN their money. A lifestyle of sucking other people's money who earned it is not a smart idea. And there are millions of these people who make a career out of bilking you out of your earned money. Bill Clinton had a great idea....."work for welfare" until some politician decided that was harsh on people And that idea did work....the welfare rolls dropped significantly NO ONE leaves them to die.....there are agencies that provide care, along with charitable organizations and the Fed program SSI.......for the down and out. Leave to die is a scare tactic propagated by the left. Pushing granny off the cliff was roundly beaten up as nonsense. Healthcare is an enigma, very costly and wrought with fraud and greedy people. Yet there is the Federal plan of Medicaid... a plan originally conceived to provide for the healthcare of women and children at risk. The agencies who administer the Medicaid program are busting doctors, hospitals, individuals and other fraudsters as fast as they can. I say step it up.....what say you? That Medicaid got tweaked so bad, it's now available to even able bodied, working age adults and crack hoes get their heroin abscesses swabbed out for FREE in an ER......and YOU pay for it. It's not an easy solution all the way around. I don't know about you, but it galls me to no end to be carrying some of the freight for a person who can, but won't work. For those who can't work due to age or disability, I am all in for taking care of them.....especially children. But by gawd.....if you can and won't work.....I have zero sympathy for them The debt......big problem....coming sooner than we may think. The government spends more money that in takes in. It's that easy. Either take in more money or back off the spending. Some make the case just take other people's money, who have lots of it, and fund the US Treasury.....up to 50% and some want to go back to 95%. Others make the case to increase the amount of people working, who pay more in income taxes, which goes to the US Treasury. A government should be frugal in the discretionary spending. I want my representative to step on every dime before he/she goes off and hands it out. Every year a paper comes out about all the pork barrel projects that waste a ton of money.....yet it keeps going on and on. No party has a lock on the pork.....they all do it.. But why, we as voters, allow this to go on? That's my two pesos in a nutshell...... In short, it's all about the choices one has to make, some choose the right path and some don't. I would like to hear about your ideas on how to do all this without going massively more in the red.

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

My ideas were to slice off the excesses, reassess the results and see where more spending cuts can take place. Everyone knows of the government waste don't they? It's pretty simple.......either raise taxes to cover expenses or quit spending more than is taken in. Who is going to get the short end of the stick? The takers......who make a career out of bilking the ratepayers and won't earn their own. Without cutting the spending, I could see neverending tax hikes....providing for people who made the decision to not work, if able, will be incentivized to continue that path....and on and on by anyone who can pull a fast one The common phrase of "why work when the government (ratepayers) will provide everything I need" seems appropriate. Tax hikes blunt econ growth.......blunt personal growth. A growing econ shovels trillions into the US Treasury AND provides an opportunity for those who want one, a job. And it personally jacks my jaws that its ok to take another person's money from them, spread it around and without ONE iota of an EARN it component from those who can. All in the name of income equality. Full caveat...can't work due to age or disability....good to go on the ratepayers dime. Come forth?.....is that you Jesus? You may not agree with my opinion and that's fine.....but it was an opinion devoid of snarks directed towards you wasn't it?

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote: Originally posted by Hook   If Trump was so determined to lock Hillary up...........he should have hired her. You know Hook......the big hubbub about the collusion thing is Donnie Jr and some pals met with some Ruskie gal in the pretext of getting the dirt on Hillary. Best I can figure out, there was no dirt to be had. It was about Ruskie child adoptions....it was over soon after the meeting started because of being duped from the get go and no dirt. Shame on Junior. Junior said he did not tell his dad beforehand about the meeting. Senior said he didn't know about the meeting beforehand and no one has proven that to be a lie.....up to now anyway. No money exchanged hands and no "dossier" was concocted as a result of that meeting, nor was any clandestine dirt used against Hillary. On the other hand, Hillary and the DNC paid Fusion GPS for some oppo research. That "oppo research" morphed into hiring a former British spy, full on Trump hater by the way, to end up counseling with a spy pal of his in Russia. They both together, penned the now famous "dossier"...which was used as the primary evidence that supported the FISA warrant against Carter Page. Very unfortunate that the FBI never told the issuing judge how they came across the "dossier" and if it was a paid product of the opposing presidential candidate. The rest is history and my main beef is.....how is Donnie Jr meeting with a Ruskie woman, about getting dirt on Hillary, any different than Hillary paying money for the dirt on Trump, and using foreign spies as the source? There is a paper trail with the Hillary payment, a trail of foreign spies and and a trail of using that "dossier", in what I believe is the "insurance" Peter Strzok was referring to with his text messages to Lisa, as probable cause to issue the FISA warrant. And no paper trail of the meeting with the Ruskie dirt provider in Trump Towers. The Hillary campaign tried to cleverly mask the using of foreign spies, along with paying them, as "oppo research" I suppose one could believe that or not....seems a stretch, at least to me, based on the people involved. I was pretty sure it's against the law for a foreign person or entity to interfere with a US election. Wish I could site that statute for you Hook, it's tough to dig out. I think it's pretty clear that Hillary used the resources of foreign nationals, paid for those resources, and with the clear intent of changing the outcome of that last election in her favor by the "dirt" gleaned from the "dossier" Everyone thought Hillary was a shoe in and none of this would ever come to light......or at least that is theory anyway. She lost.....now it's out....high intrigue follows. Trumps pals got caught up in it all.....and they are paying that price. Yet not one of them, at least up to now, has directly implicated Trump as to pulling some criminal act. Dicey for sure. And the standards for a criminal conviction are just not there. So far, Trump is just guilty of being named Donald Trump. Criminal proof only counts in a court of law. It's now in the court of public opinion as to his wrongdoings. Be very careful about impeachment stuff.....Clinton was impeached and the GOP not only got beaten badly in the following Congressional elections, but Clinton won reelection in a landslide. My takeaway from that is the public is not all that keen to impeach a President and will punish those who brought it forward. I would strongly suggest for the Demo party to run up a better candidate, than another Hillary clone and give it another go. What say you Mr Hook? [Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

It's always that raise taxes and cut the military. Same song, candidate after candidate. Problem is. it's a tough political go to get a tax increase and tough to cut military spending. Most people like to keep more of what they earn and maybe notify Iran, China and NK that the US is cutting the defense budget by a cool $200 billion so don't be taking potshots at us....we don't have the ponies to beat you back anymore. Rack up big taxes on the wealthy?.......out it goes into some offshore account......NONE of which is touchable by the IRS......smart move.NOT. Rack up big taxes on business........out they go to Saltillo MX and ChonBuri Thailand......Rack up more regulations.......out they go. Want to cut the defense......get on the horn with Germany, The Baltics, Poland and other members of NATO......sorry, the USA can no longer give you cover....your on your own pals. Talk about cutting our allies to sheds . While Germany inks a deal to buy Ruskie gas..Germany wants to sell Iran machinery and France wants to sell the Airbus planes....Haysous Christo Why are we doing this? Or we could be like the Scandinavian countries....isolated on the world stage, not a world player, not a leader for freedom and tax the bejesus out it's countrymen........so they can let the government provide for them Work up something new for a change.....like how to keep the econ on track....fund the treasury with the income that comes from that. Nah...can't do it....much easier to jack up the tax rate, just get that majority and a liberal president and do it. And still......to this very day.......there is NO liberal platform to ensure the econ stays on track. It's Bernie yelling for 50% tax rates, Fauxcahontas FREE FREE.. Building solar panels as the headline econ message......pffff. Be Careful.....taxes and defense cuts don't sit well with voters.

You don't get it do you??

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Have any of you on the right ever realized that public education is one of the biggest government provided subsidies we give to American business? They get workers that can (ideally) read, write, and think critically, with normalized social skills. Perfect worker bees. They don't want ignorant free range chickens. Yep, another example of corporate welfare. Amazing. How much would it cost corporate America to train an uneducated workforce? Way too much. Impeaching Trump is a stupid idea. Let him suffer the "death of a thousand cuts." A slow drip, drip, drip of scandal and sleaze. He made his bed, let him toss and turn, and Tweet from it. It's clear he's his own worst enemy. No assistance required. John [Edited on 8-27-2018 by John Harper]

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

If Trump was so determined to lock Hillary up...........he should have hired her.

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator

Ah, public education; 81 cents out of every dollar spent on education has been negotiated away by the Teachers Unions; salaries, bonus, retirement, healthcare, Union officials, and their lawyers. That's the truth. I'm all for the best and brightest being teachers, or doing a stint as a teacher out of college, or sometime during your life, but not life long teachers, with retirement and healthcare plans that go on for ever. Do 10 years, then you're out and back into the Private Sector. This way, we get new teachers trained in the most current tech, government and social studies but don't have the burden of them as life long leaches on the tax system. Teachers should pay into a 401K just like the rest of us too. No Public Unions ever.

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator

Ah, public education; 81 cents out of every dollar spent on education has been negotiated away by the Teachers Unions; salaries, bonus, retirement, healthcare, Union officials, and their lawyers. That's the truth. I'm all for the best and brightest being teachers, or doing a stint as a teacher out of college, or sometime during your life, but not life long teachers, with retirement and healthcare plans that go on for ever. Do 10 years, then you're out and back into the Private Sector. This way, we get new teachers trained in the most current tech, government and social studies but don't have the burden of them as life long leaches on the tax system. Teachers should pay into a 401K just like the rest of us too. No Public Unions ever.

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator   Ah, public education; 81 cents out of every dollar spent on education has been negotiated away by the Teachers Unions; salaries, bonus, retirement, healthcare, Union officials, and their lawyers. That's the truth. I'm all for the best and brightest being teachers, or doing a stint as a teacher out of college, or sometime during your life, but not life long teachers, with retirement and healthcare plans that go on for ever. Do 10 years, then you're out and back into the Private Sector. This way, we get new teachers trained in the most current tech, government and social studies but don't have the burden of them as life long leaches on the tax system. Teachers should pay into a 401K just like the rest of us too. No Public Unions ever. How many retired teachers do you know that live in Rancho Santa Fe, Beverly Hills, or Pebble Beach? Yep, I don't either. Most all of my teacher friends (and I am a teacher) work their asses off. I'm sure I could work circles around you in the teaching profession, as I would have in my previous career as a government contractor. Get in the ring, if you think you can survive. I seriously doubt it. There are bums in every profession, I'm sure you set an example of one in yours. And what kind of marooon makes a profession into a 10 year stint? Why not do that with MD's? They make more money than teachers. What a lame idea. I made a lot more money at SAIC, but decided to change careers so I could give back to our young and our community, which is why I love high school. I can pass on a lot of real life experience to those just entering the adult world. How about you? Do anything at all for our future, our country, or just yourself? Yep, that's what I thought, just you, you, you. I've served our community and our country, unlike whiners like you. Put some critical thinking skills into your ideas before you put forth such half baked drivel. Weak sauce. John [Edited on 8-27-2018 by John Harper]

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

DaliDali wrote: " Just the other day, there was a poster on here who had headed up a couple of groups focused on helping people get jobs." ___________________________- Really? So what's his handle? I don't recall that post. Regarding not finding enough qualified workers. Have you told your new friends and employers, about the EB3 Visa, for Skilled Processionals or other workers? This way the American employers, could get well qualified foreigner workers from places like India, and other foreign countries. This way he won't have to worry about lazy American workers, your friend told you about. But for some reason DaliDali, I have a feeling you would be against the EB3 visa.

The Art of the Deal!

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

DaliDali wrote: " Just the other day, there was a poster on here who had headed up a couple of groups focused on helping people get jobs." _____________________ . And really try to cut down on your ranting put downs against education 1-12, or somebody might ask you about your education, and job history, which you would probably also lie about anyway, so I won't bother to ask you about. BTW, Trump, and his followers, seem to hate most non-white immigrants, so they are not too exciting about the EB3 Visa, despite the fact tech companies are screaming for highly skilled foreign workers, it's good that you DD don't also have a problem with foreign workers, as you claim.

Spot on DaliDali ...

And speaking of education here in the United States

Who has the highest high school graduation rates and/or graduation from higher educational institutions ... and then what does one have, to solve real problems facing the species

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...

[Edited on 8-28-2018 by wessongroup]

From what I just read (online), looks like a great deal for both Mexico and Canada! It will be interesting to see what Canada does...

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator

Ah, public education; 81 cents out of every dollar spent on education has been negotiated away by the Teachers Unions; salaries, bonus, retirement, healthcare, Union officials, and their lawyers. That's the truth. I'm all for the best and brightest being teachers, or doing a stint as a teacher out of college, or sometime during your life, but not life long teachers, with retirement and healthcare plans that go on for ever. Do 10 years, then you're out and back into the Private Sector. This way, we get new teachers trained in the most current tech, government and social studies but don't have the burden of them as life long leaches on the tax system. Teachers should pay into a 401K just like the rest of us too. No Public Unions ever. Why shouldn't teachers get retirement and the same benefits anyone else gets? The "rest of us" have retirement systems.

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The Art of the Deal!

YES. The tRump deal...Announce...make news...renounce...becasuse there were no details.

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

. No rants here Joe......just the simple Q.... What can't the US education system, and particularly the CA K-12 system, put out a student who can go on the fill those high tech jobs, and India, Japan and China can? Not enough kids to keep up?...dumb axx kids? Lazy? Bad parents? Do you have an answer or not?....See how easy this is? Since you have a high sense of calling BS to most anything you don't agree with......I have taken the pains to locate the post of which you wanted to know about. What do you know Joe, it's right here in this same topic on page 3. Pretty slick of you to claim not reading it......you're all over this topic like stink on chit. Selective vision Joe? Say it ain't so.... And you Joe, are a part of that discussion.....I'll be damned. For your reading pleasure here is the copy.....and if you want the full context of the discussion, simply go to page 3 near the bottom ok? I am confident you can figure out the posters name so you can discredit him and call him a poser, a racist and hater of brown skinned folks "Call it a "government subsidy" if you wish. 84% of the property taxes paid in my county go to public education That means that since my youngest graduated in 1990 (yes, from a public high school) I have paid over $200,000 into a big void and then the government washes my dough and you call it a subsidy....grrrrrrrrr Furthermore, for the past 25 years I have sat on the local Federally mandated Workforce Development Board, did my two years as chair 2000-2002. Still on the board, chair the Veterans' Training committee. Do you know the biggest b-tch we get from prospective employers? "Your schools are not producing candidates that can pass the basic Work Keys assessment for fork lift driver" Public subsidy benefit indeed. New people move to town I tell them, send your kids to either Central Catholic or Modesto Christian. They get close to 100% acceptance into colleges year after year" [Edited on 8-27-2018 by DaliDali]

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali   . No rants here Joe......just the simple Q.... What can't the US education system, and particularly the CA K-12 system, put out a student who can go on the fill those high tech jobs, and India, Japan and China can? Not enough kids to keep up?...dumb axx kids? Lazy? Bad parents? Do you have an answer or not?....See how easy this is? Since you have a high sense of calling BS to most anything you don't agree with......I have taken the pains to locate the post of which you wanted to know about. What do you know Joe, it's right here in this same topic on page 3. Pretty slick of you to claim not reading it......you're all over this topic like stink on chit. Selective vision Joe? Say it ain't so.... And you Joe, are a part of that discussion.....I'll be damned. For your reading pleasure here is the copy.....and if you want the full context of the discussion, simply go to page 3 near the bottom ok? I am confident you can figure out the posters name so you can discredit him and call him a poser, a racist and hater of brown skinned folks "Call it a "government subsidy" if you wish. 84% of the property taxes paid in my county go to public education That means that since my youngest graduated in 1990 (yes, from a public high school) I have paid over $200,000 into a big void and then the government washes my dough and you call it a subsidy....grrrrrrrrr Furthermore, for the past 25 years I have sat on the local Federally mandated Workforce Development Board, did my two years as chair 2000-2002. Still on the board, chair the Veterans' Training committee. Do you know the biggest b-tch we get from prospective employers? "Your schools are not producing candidates that can pass the basic Work Keys assessment for fork lift driver" Public subsidy benefit indeed. New people move to town I tell them, send your kids to either Central Catholic or Modesto Christian. They get close to 100% acceptance into colleges year after year" [Edited on 8-27-2018 by DaliDali] I will say before you start blaming the parents, and other old standbys, I would first make sure all schools are equal, and they are not in the US. Most schools are paid by property tax, and you will see that most nice modern new schools are in the nice neighborhoods, and the trashy schools are in the hood. In the hood, you won't find AP courses, like you do at the expensive schools, therefore, there is little chance any students in he hood, will get accepted at a good college. [Edited on 8-28-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator   Ah, public education; 81 cents out of every dollar spent on education has been negotiated away by the Teachers Unions; salaries, bonus, retirement, healthcare, Union officials, and their lawyers. That's the truth. I'm all for the best and brightest being teachers, or doing a stint as a teacher out of college, or sometime during your life, but not life long teachers, with retirement and healthcare plans that go on for ever. Do 10 years, then you're out and back into the Private Sector. This way, we get new teachers trained in the most current tech, government and social studies but don't have the burden of them as life long leaches on the tax system. Teachers should pay into a 401K just like the rest of us too. No Public Unions ever. How many retired teachers do you know that live in Rancho Santa Fe, Beverly Hills, or Pebble Beach? Yep, I don't either. Most all of my teacher friends (and I am a teacher) work their asses off. I'm sure I could work circles around you in the teaching profession, as I would have in my previous career as a government contractor. Get in the ring, if you think you can survive. I seriously doubt it. There are bums in every profession, I'm sure you set an example of one in yours. And what kind of marooon makes a profession into a 10 year stint? Why not do that with MD's? They make more money than teachers. What a lame idea. I made a lot more money at SAIC, but decided to change careers so I could give back to our young and our community, which is why I love high school. I can pass on a lot of real life experience to those just entering the adult world. How about you? Do anything at all for our future, our country, or just yourself? Yep, that's what I thought, just you, you, you. I've served our community and our country, unlike whiners like you. Put some critical thinking skills into your ideas before you put forth such half baked drivel. Weak sauce. John [Edited on 8-27-2018 by John Harper]

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

People have choices along the road to make. Some choose a life of easy, taking from others as a way of life and career and some put the energies in listening to their parents, pay attention in school, get a part time job, pay your way through college if desired and strive to get a job that will support them and a family.

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali   People have choices along the road to make. Some choose a life of easy, taking from others as a way of life and career and some put the energies in listening to their parents, pay attention in school, get a part time job, pay your way through college if desired and strive to get a job that will support them and a family. DaliDali, you don't have kids do you, or maybe you don't have kids that go to college? [Edited on 8-28-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

My daughter worked two and sometimes three jobs to put herself thru nursing school while raising two kids as a single mom. It's the choices we make in life.

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

Dang Joe, there you go, jumping off that left cliff once again and "assuming" someone you don't know has kids or not, based on their views of the K-12 education system. Yes I had two kids, girl and boy. Full on adults now and living on their own. Daughter was lazy in school, didn't pay attention, other than the boys. Graduated with a "C" average and only did some part-time stints at the local junior college. The son on the other hand payed attention, made the effort and studied after school instead of playing video games. Graduated 4th in his class, out of large senior graduating class, with a AP enhanced 4.6 GPA. ONE "B" grade in four years in high school.....straight "A's" for the rest. This wasn't some "elite" wealthy district school either. Middle class, working famlies. Son got a mostly free ride to UCSD by being in the top one percent of his graduating class. And the next semester was a freshman there. Didn't dilly dally for a few years to sort it all out......BAM...HS to an esteemed University. Worked part time at a Round Table pizza joint and at Pep Boys auto parts store to help pay the freight. Point being.......daughter didn't make the effort.....the son did. And even with me, as single parent at the time..their mom died when the daughter was 14 and the son was 12. So don't go off telling me it can't be done Joe ok? Effort Joe.....even the kid in a "hood" school can do it. You won't hear of it......it's all someone else's fault and it must be whitey. And down goes your "character" another notch, now bouncing on the basement floor.

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote: Originally posted by TMW   My daughter worked two and sometimes three jobs to put herself thru nursing school while raising two kids as a single mom. It's the choices we make in life. Bingo Mr TMW..... It's all about the choices and effort put forth.

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

Earn it, work for it, effort and the right choices along the way. A likely ticket to a fulfilling adulthood. Not for Joe.......just blame whitey..... Pffffff.....

[Edited on 8-29-2018 by wessongroup]

Quote: Originally posted by Terminator

My parents saved for my college and my wife and I saved for our son's college. It's amazing what two parents can do with a plan. It's all about choices and options; moving, relocating, certifications, networking, sacrificing, working harder and longer. Point is, you can do very well if you're willing to what it takes. I'm 60, and personally, I've never seen a single person in my life fail at being successful who didn't give it their all. Not a single one. People who fail always have an excuse and it's very rarely their fault. No country on earth is perfect by any respect. But almost every country on earth has been both segregated and racist since the beginning of human civilization. Most countries are still very segregate and racist towards any people that's not "them". The Unites States has made strides and pretty much leads the world in trying to be integrated, but frankly, people in general are just more comfortable with somebody that looks like them (as stated above) and that works both ways for all colors too. I'm the first to reach out my hand in friendship and always have been, but I feel we're trying to mico-regulate human nature. We have laws and lawyers on every corner to take your case, I think that's the best that can be done. I know my son is far less "racist" than I ever was at his age, and my 95 year old mom is still more racist than I've every been, I think it just takes time to assimilate and blend.

Attending Catholic School ? CYA !

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

You're on to something Cliffy... I am still looking for some answers or reasons why, that the K-12 Cali public school system is still near the bottom of the barrel in National rankings. Despite the billions upon billions ($ 50) in annual funding, and almost on every ballot, there is another attempt to float some school bonds. A proposal to increase this by billions is on the table now. Giving a per student jump by $6500. Assembly Bill 2808 No judgements here.....just a reason or answer why, Cali can't put out a higher scoring student, year after year, despite the money being pumped that way. Is it just a funding issue? I think it's reasonable for the ratepayers to ask why this low ranking continues. https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/california/californ...