BajaNomad

24°14'24.6"N 110°13'21.0"W what is going on here ?

white whale - 9-15-2018 at 11:24 AM

Previous post got me playing with Google maps and learning my screen cap app and the forum ..... this caught my attention. Literally in the middle of nowhere. North / East of la Paz. Asphalt plant?

gps co-ord's in subject

la paz mystery1.jpg - 178kB

woody with a view - 9-15-2018 at 12:05 PM

I bet its related to the Natl Solar Observatory being evacuated by FBI. ET or asteroid inbound!

edit: https://www.space.com/41834-national-solar-observatory-facil...


[Edited on 9-15-2018 by woody with a view]

mtgoat666 - 9-15-2018 at 01:03 PM

Looks like a pond associated with the mine just north of there

Jack Swords - 9-15-2018 at 01:45 PM

Looks like the storage place for cenizas (ashes) from the power plant in La Paz.

white whale - 9-15-2018 at 06:17 PM

Now I remember, power plant dregs sounds likely. I got really lost trying to leave la Paz and drove past some exhaust stacks towards the ferries. Found two articles on a new diesel generation station and the biggest solar install in Latin America for la Paz. My trip gave me first taste of seeing solar in action, travellers and locals.

4x4abc - 9-15-2018 at 07:17 PM

they are the super toxic ashes from the CFE plant.

motoged - 9-15-2018 at 08:06 PM

Hmmmmmm....and I suppose the winds don't blow them all over....

chumlee57 - 9-15-2018 at 08:32 PM

very interesting, but what exactley is the CFE plant

bajaguy - 9-15-2018 at 08:38 PM

CFE = Comisión Federal de Electricidad (English: Federal Electricity Commission) the state-owned electric utility of Mexico.
Quote: Originally posted by chumlee57  
very interesting, but what exactley is the CFE plant

mtgoat666 - 9-15-2018 at 10:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
Looks like the storage place for cenizas (ashes) from the power plant in La Paz.


If that’s for fly ash it’s only big enough for a few months.
Fly ash piles are usually close to plant
Don’t look like no fly ash pile I have seen

Jack Swords - 9-16-2018 at 05:49 AM

http://sinat.semarnat.gob.mx/dgiraDocs/documentos/bcs/estudi... (page 11-13)

https://www.mural.com/aplicacioneslibre/articulo/default.asp...

It most certainly is, so take a drive out there and add to your knowledge base.

David K - 9-16-2018 at 08:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
http://sinat.semarnat.gob.mx/dgiraDocs/documentos/bcs/estudi... (page 11-13)

https://www.mural.com/aplicacioneslibre/articulo/default.asp...

It most certainly is, so take a drive out there and add to your knowledge base.


Thanks Jack.
Here is a translation of the second link:

Leave CFE toxic ash to air in BCS The CFE's ash deposit is located near the Coyote and El Saltito beaches. Photo: Haydeé Ramírez The CFE's ash deposit is located near the Coyote and El Saltito beaches. Photo: Haydeé Ramírez The CFE's ash deposit is located near the Coyote and El Saltito beaches. Photo: Haydeé Ramírez Haydeé Ramírez / Correspondent La Paz, Mexico (August 19, 2014) .- The Federal Electricity Commission (CFE) has been throwing ash, with heavy metals, into the open air for only eight years, just 17 kilometers from the urban area of ​this city in Baja California Sur.

Since 2007, the parastate has accumulated about 3 thousand 500 tons of ash with heavy metals such as vanadium and sulfur dioxide.

Related Notes Profepa complaint to mining for spill Unleashes spill claim for water 700 wells closed by toxic spill Report toxic spill now in Durango It assumes mining chemical spill in river Spill mine of Cananea chemicals to rivers Each month, 30 to 40 tons of ashes are transported in containers in the deposit located near El Coyote and El Saltito beaches.

Manuel González, Head of the Environmental Control Department of the CFE explained that the ashes are the product of the 6 million liters of fuel oil that is burned every month in the two thermoelectric plants that supply electricity to the inhabitants of the capital of Baja California South.

"We are generating as 30, 35 and up to 40 tons of ash per month, depending on the generation of energy," he explained.

The ashes can be sold, he added, but in Baja California Sur they have been stored for nine years because they can not be transported due to the island's geography.

They would have to leave by sea or by land and that represents a risk and very expensive transportation expenses, he said.

"In other parts of the Republic it is sold, as in Mazatlan, because of the quick access they have to move it, which is what limits us," said González.

"Those ashes right now have some value in the market, they are already being auctioned and will probably be taken out and reused, we would no longer have them in the State," he explained.

Metals like vanadium are used to make tools and keys.

According to Gonzalez, the deposit where the ashes are is safe, since it was designed to store hazardous waste with compacted layers to avoid filtration to the subsoil, and although they are outdoors, the ashes are bathed in a substance so they do not fly.

The emission of ashes began in 2007 when the CFE installed a filtration system in its Punta Prieta plant to avoid sulfur dioxide emissions into the environment, which was prevented by 94 percent, but began with the storage of ashes.

Currently CFE chimneys continue with emissions, but González says that according to the reports they deliver to Profepa and Semarnat, they are well below the norm, which is 200 to 300 milligrams per cubic meter.

Jack Swords - 9-16-2018 at 08:57 AM

Thanks David. Used to be that finding the city of La Paz coming from sea you just had to look for the smoke pollution from CFE plant near harbor entrance. Some days the pollution was all over the city. Came the construction of Costa Baja resort and the pollution particles came raining down on new houses and boats in the Marina. Scrubbers were installed at the CFE plant and the particles were captured and needed to be stored somewhere (dumped). Driving out to Coyote beach and Puerto Mexia you drive right by the ash dump (which is walled). Pretty remote area, but some pretty expensive developments going in. Now you must use different navigation methods other than smoke to find the entrance to the harbor. Air is cleaner, another power plant is on line behind the hills, and Mexico's largest solar plant is on line south of the city.

4x4abc - 9-16-2018 at 09:14 AM

with the new power plant the air in La Paz is 4 times dirtier than with the old Punta Prieta plant (converted to natural gas after the Costa Baja investors complained - money talks). The need for power has gone up dramatically. This week we had our first blackout due to high demand.
And the people of La Paz are enduring the toxic air (highest pulmonary death rate in all of Mexico) so Los Cabos can have power for hotels and resorts.
The solar plant would cover 100% of the power need of La Paz, but again, La Paz is producing power for Los Cabos.
Solar "would" cover 100% - if the plant would be running. Severely damaged during hurricane Odile in 2014 it has since been off-line.
There are plans to get it running again. But as well know, things are not fast in Mexico.
The solar plant is owned by Tesla by the way.

La Paz might not be the place to retire if you have any previous breathing problems. A friend died not long ago due to breathing problems.

weebray - 9-16-2018 at 10:44 AM

Since the dark point cfe plant shut down the air qulaity in downtown La P has improved drastically. Due to the prevailing winds, generally speaking, most of the crud blows S. Since the new plant is located over the hills and far east of La Paz the people most affected by the pollution are the same people that use most of it. Barriles would be the last place to settle down if you have pulmonary problem. I have no scientific data to back up my theory, it's all based on empirical data ie: visual observation. I might add that the slow paving of streets here has added significantly to improved air quality. Revolucion was dirt when I first came here - the air was nasty. It paid to have a healthy nose hair bush.

white whale - 9-16-2018 at 11:47 AM

thanks to all the contrib's. Some very interesting details. At least it isn't a meth lab.... although sounds just as toxic. I did see the strip mining sites north of this. I did poke into the mining records for Baja but this area was not on the list - any guess as to what is being taken here?, seem to be a couple of tailing ponds you can spot.

On my return to La Paz from the north I remember thinking it looked a bit hazy from the hwy far from the city proper. But its a big city, I never think about power generation that is required. I've only known/lived with hydro. Shocking to hear about the air quality in the past and present. So the half dozen ice creams i had on the Malecon might have been a bit dirtier while walking around. Great city none the less.

New phrase of the day - nose bush. Love it. never thought about that being a natural air filter. Will have to research this.

And yes, found (pretty sure) the solar farm south of the city. Tesla - interesting again.
If I come back I will definitely try to find. In ??... the whale watching area down from G N , I saw the ground level solar hot water system in action for the shower rooms- very slick. Used the tap to make some hot chocolate in the morning. Tasted good.

Jack Swords - 9-16-2018 at 02:38 PM

Lots of mining activity around El Triunfo in BCS. Gold and silver. Spend some time on dirt roads, make friends, find mines and abandoned mining equipment. Check out Valle Perdido, talk to locals. Lots to see dating from 1850s, one rancho from 1720, maybe even the mission period. The rest is up to you, discovery is better unexpected. Nice folks out there!

Whale-ista - 9-16-2018 at 02:39 PM

"In ??... the whale watching area down from G N , I saw the ground level solar hot water system in action for the shower rooms- very slick. Used the tap to make some hot chocolate in the morning. Tasted good. "

Maybe you are referring to Kuyima campground in San Ignacio lagoon?

They use passive solar for hot water & wind to generate electricity for camp use.

David K - 9-16-2018 at 02:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Jack Swords  
Lots of mining activity around El Triunfo in BCS. Gold and silver. Spend some time on dirt roads, make friends, find mines and abandoned mining equipment. Check out Valle Perdido, talk to locals. Lots to see dating from 1850s, one rancho from 1720, maybe even the mission period. The rest is up to you, discovery is better unexpected. Nice folks out there!


See Jack's photos of this historic region:
http://vivabaja.com/swords/

4x4abc - 9-16-2018 at 03:39 PM

when the wind is just right - all the dirty secrets blow away (to Todos Santos). But the wind is rarely right. Plus, at night the wind usually reverses and brings back what hasn't already fallen out of the sky.
La Paz has the perfect storm. The pollutants rain down on the town. The image shows what studies have pointed out - the heavy metals drop right onto town. Some inhale the good stuff right away. Others wait to inhale until cars have kicked up some dust (which not only contains the CFE pollutants, but also the ever present arsenic).
But then there is also the ocean. The metals rain down there too. Studies have shown that pretty much everything from sea grass over clams to the largest of fish contain high levels of everything CFE did not want to filter out of their exhaust (way too expensive - I understand).

We had an intensive discussion about dredging the bay for deeper shipping channels - it would newly disperse decades of toxins.
Nobody spends a minute to think where the stuff is coming from.
They are too busy protesting.
Also too busy protesting the new mines around El Triunfo.
Way too toxic. Right.
The toxins blown in their face in town are only visible from outside of town.
Always good to step back to get a perspective.

AKgringo - 9-16-2018 at 03:51 PM

Are the excavations just north of there an active mine? I thought it was a rock quarry, but I could be wrong.

4x4abc - 9-16-2018 at 04:22 PM

north of the ash storage are several gravel pits - no valuable metal mining.

Pretty much everything southeast of La Paz has a mining claim on it. Sooner or later, they all will be active again.
Second largest claim, Cacachilas, is owned by the Waltons (Walmart). That might give you an idea of what is coming.

There is some hope in more solar production - but it is still way more expensive than an oil fired power plant.
The path is clear - more tourism, more hotels, more condos, more Mexicans relocating to the area, more people with anything electric, will require more power. More power = dirtier air. Good part is, it kills only the locals and long term residents. Visiting tourists are rarely affected.
Inhalers are a hot selling items in Farmacias.
I have one in every room, pocket, car.
They are cheap at least.

A friend not long ago chocked to death in La Paz.
Welcome to paradise.



4x4abc - 9-16-2018 at 04:26 PM

I apologize for my negative posts.
Still recovering from one year of bad doctors in La Paz almost costing me my leg.
Don't worry - life is good. I'll recover.
I'll handle CFE like politics - I'll just ignore it.
Can't change it anyway.

[Edited on 9-16-2018 by 4x4abc]

white whale - 9-16-2018 at 05:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista  
"In ??... the whale watching area down from G N , I saw the ground level solar hot water system in action for the shower rooms- very slick. Used the tap to make some hot chocolate in the morning. Tasted good. "

Maybe you are referring to Kuyima campground in San Ignacio lagoon?

They use passive solar for hot water & wind to generate electricity for camp use.


Correct W ista. had to go back to the satellite to double check. Recognized the red roofs. greatest collection of shells I have ever seen.... piles and piles everywhere. I'll look for the photo of the hot water heater. Just stuck around for a morning visit. camped on an empty beach an hour or so before this spot.


4x4 - thank you for the commentary on what the tourists don't see.
Paradise is not always like what the postcards show. I expect the concerns on environment will be a slow progress as the younger generation moves into power. I was expecting to see garbage in Baja and wasn't disappointed, plastic bags are the tumbleweeds of modern times. I did see quite a few buildings in the smaller spots with Piensa Verde painted on them. So that is encouraging. The very stop for me was Cabo Pulmo and lo and behold... a recycling station with 4 bins. Never did see another , but its a start.

David K - nice mining photos, Some great titles in your library for next trip...that is alot of history to get lost in.

[Edited on 9-17-2018 by white whale]

John Harper - 9-16-2018 at 05:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by white whale  
plastic bags are the tumbleweeds of modern times.


We called them the "Mexican National Flags" back in the 80's. They were hung on every fence line along Hwy 1.

John

willardguy - 9-16-2018 at 05:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Quote: Originally posted by white whale  
plastic bags are the tumbleweeds of modern times.


We called them the "Mexican National Flags" back in the 80's. They were hung on every fence line along Hwy 1.

John


banned in ensenada in 2019......its a start!:yes:

mlspottery - 9-17-2018 at 07:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
north of the ash storage are several gravel pits - no valuable metal mining.

Pretty much everything southeast of La Paz has a mining claim on it. Sooner or later, they all will be active again.
Second largest claim, Cacachilas, is owned by the Waltons (Walmart). That might give you an idea of what is coming.

There is some hope in more solar production - but it is still way more expensive than an oil fired power plant.
The path is clear - more tourism, more hotels, more condos, more Mexicans relocating to the area, more people with anything electric, will require more power. More power = dirtier air. Good part is, it kills only the locals and long term residents. Visiting tourists are rarely affected.
Inhalers are a hot selling items in Farmacias.
I have one in every room, pocket, car.
They are cheap at least.

A friend not long ago chocked to death in La Paz.
Welcome to paradise.





Here is a link to what is going on with the Cacachilas mining claim:
https://www.ranchocacachilas.com/welcome/
The mountain biking trails are amazing and the produce and cheeses are a delicious addition to the weekly farmers market in La Ventana / El Sargento (November-March)

4x4abc - 9-17-2018 at 07:24 AM

a bit old (numbers are way up since 2013), but still valid:
http://www.meloncoyote.org/issue_v4_n1/page04.html

bajaric - 9-17-2018 at 11:50 AM

Regarding Rancho Cacachilas, sounds really great. Their web site says that their goal is eco-friendly use of the land and they acquired the mining rights as a sort of preemptive action so some other entity would be able to mine it. Wow, what a cool thing to do, if I had Walton money I would do the same thing: buy a big chuck of Baja and then acquire the mining concession and then NOT mine it. Sure, mining brings jobs, but in ten years the miners are gone and the place is ruined while eco tourism can bring jobs for decades and the land is protected. The thing that has me slightly confused is they say that they were required to do a certain amount of exploration (core drilling) activity. I have seen plenty of other old mining concessions that have no annual work required so is this some sort of unique requirement for that site? Or is the whole eco thing just a smoke screen.

4x4abc - 9-17-2018 at 04:55 PM

Mines are sometimes a good investment, even if they are not producing at the moment. Once metal prices go up enough, the return can be handsome.
To have your mining claim produce money with outdoorsy stuff and produce good eco PR at the same time is brilliant.
I don't know of any mining claim that made money when dormant.

And hey, I am not suggesting that eco is a front and mining is the goal. Just a possibility from the book of investing.