BajaNomad - "Two Thirds of all non-US citizens are on welfare"

Who will support those massed at the border if we let them in?

My bet is that the majority of them will be productive and get jobs and support themselves, if they are allowed to assimilate. My experience is that most Hispanics want to be productive, and will outwork most Norte Americanos and will keep jobs that most US citizens wouldn't even consider. Who's going to pick your strawberries? -I'm guessing not anyone from your family.

Bajazly - 12-4-2018 at 05:41 PM

Can't personally speak for the Central American people as a whole, but anyone who says Mexicans are lazy and don't want to work I say has never met a Mexican. And judging by the help I've gotten from Home Depot from time to time, and by the way, you won't find Mexican one there at least not in Nor Cal, they are all Central Americans and they have all worked their butts off for me. Can't really see them being much different than the Mexican people.

I'm not saying open borders but the imagined crisis of anyone who comes here is going straight in the system for free stuff make my head spin.

caj13 - 12-4-2018 at 06:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DanO

Better check your source.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studie...

and while he is at it, take a minute to google up eugenics, to make sure you understand where this crap is coming from!

Cancamo - 12-4-2018 at 07:44 PM

You are all wet Runner, most all the responses are spot on in my experience, sounds like you are a victim of "fake news".

The US would shut down overnight without immigrants. All immigrants, documented or not are some of the hardest working members of society and built the country, like my grandparents. Most all just want a chance to work and are way to principled to ask for assistance.

4x4abc - 12-4-2018 at 08:08 PM

Can undocumented immigrants receive welfare? NO!

Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants (green card holders) cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.

But there are narrow exceptions.

Pregnant women and nursing mothers could be eligible for certain benefits under the Women-Infants-Children (WIC) program, which provides food and nutrition vouchers to low-income families, if they have a child that was born in the U.S.

BajaMama - 12-4-2018 at 08:47 PM

Can undocumented immigrants receive welfare? NO!

Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants (green card holders) cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.

But there are narrow exceptions.

Pregnant women and nursing mothers could be eligible for certain benefits under the Women-Infants-Children (WIC) program, which provides food and nutrition vouchers to low-income families, if they have a child that was born in the U.S.

It is amazing to me how many people don't know this!

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by BajaMama]

DaliDali - 12-4-2018 at 09:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama

It is amazing to me how many people don't know this!

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by BajaMama]

This what is supposed to happen.....
Have you heard of diploma mills?
There exists entire niche industries that will roll out any and all manner of a fake ID for a price. Fake ID mills.....in any inner city street corner behind the curtain.

From a US Passport, to a SS card, to a drivers license for your the state of residence.
Some states even issue a drivers license to illegal migrants for the asking.....and with that drivers license, it gets one automatically registered to vote......with only the signature on the form "Yes I am a US citizen and eligible to vote"
Motor voter law is was coined.

With these fake ID's any and all manners of public benefits can be had.
Not only fake ID's of every kind, but the theft of a now dead persons identity.....bingo.....

Fake ID's are rampant.......stealing another persons ID is rampant......entire industries come up with programs to thwart some of it and is a hot commodity for millions to seek out protection.

To say that "some" illegal aliens are collecting public benefits not normally available to get........are.

I don't know if there is a way to accurately track the actual numbers or not, but it's clear, it does and will happen.

I also don't know if the numbers are something to be over concerned about, are there or not.......but to blanket say illegal aliens do not get public benefits is just plain mistaken

4x4abc - 12-4-2018 at 09:56 PM

yes, I know about diploma mills
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mills_in_the_United_St...

just keep the lies and rumors coming.
There always some who love to gobble them up

DaliDali - 12-4-2018 at 10:04 PM

yes, I know about diploma mills
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mills_in_the_United_St...

just keep the lies and rumors coming.
There always some who love to gobble them up

Do some illegal aliens us a fake ID or not?

DaliDali - 12-4-2018 at 10:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

DaliDali, do you have any evidence that undocumented aliens in large numbers are getting fake IDs, like passports, and drivers licences, and then using those documents to collect welfare?

Oh wait, if you read the "Center for Immigration Studies," they will make up BS study and agree with you DaliDali.

Do you have any evidence that the approximate 11 million illegal aliens living in the USA have not used a fake ID to obtain benefits.

Or are you trained to say absolutely not?

https://nypost.com/2017/08/03/dmv-workers-made-fake-ids-for-...

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article15...

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/crime--law/illegal-immi...

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/06/q_a_how_il...

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/09/03/146-illegal-al...

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/letters/2017/02/13/i...

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/man-accused-of-running-fake-...

http://wbckfm.com/kalamazoo-illegal-id-plea/

Imagine that Joe....not one link to CIS

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by DaliDali]

$18.5 Billion In Health Care For Unauthorized Immigrants

wessongroup - 12-5-2018 at 04:21 AM

In some states fake identification is not required to obtain coverage of government funded programs

"Moreover, states can and do use state-only Medicaid programs to cover such individuals. For example, California's Health for All Kids Act provides unauthorized immigrant children with access to coverage through Medi-Cal, the state Medicaid program. Its passage in 2015 made California the largest state to use state-only funding to provide coverage to all children regardless of immigration status; in doing so, it joins New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, Washington, and the District of Columbia."

I would imagine there is some bleed over in many other programs ... as there aren't a lot of bodies of individual illegal and/or undocumented aliens found in the streets every morning ... who have died from: malnutrition, exposure, lack of water et al

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-am...

To think there is NO fraud in any government program is disingenuous at best

And the bottom line is "funding costs" to support non American citizens ... really very simple

Even TJ knows what unloading daily new people into their country and/or City effects the governments ability to provide support ... As it has been going on for some time .... Buses unloading guys and gals getting out of jail and/or prison and being herded across the border into Mexico and/or TJ

Have seen them myself .. ex con's being kicked back after serving their time ... actually met a few ....

A real struggle to get OUT of TJ .... to a safer location in Mexico

Luck of the draw on where someone is "born" and your parents IMO
=============================
Just looked at HUD on Sec 8 housing ... allowed IF one person is a citizen ... Like a child who is born to non citizen of the United States then the parents and/or relatives are covered by HUD

Housing for Eligible Non citizens

https://affordablehousingonline.com/guide/housing-for-immigr...

Someone else can look at Food Stamps, day care ... et al

btw there are 43 million American citizens living below the poverty level established by our government ...

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by wessongroup]

mxracer50 - 12-5-2018 at 06:24 AM

Whatever % it's way way too high. People should have to work to provide for themselves.

pacificobob - 12-5-2018 at 07:19 AM

does anyone else find a bit of irony in certain posters on a site that primarily caters to expats/tourists disparaging Mexican/Latino immigrants while enjoying all mexico has to offer? i find their hate and smallness repellent.

Marc - 12-5-2018 at 07:29 AM

Forms of Identification for Undocumented Immigrants

wessongroup - 12-5-2018 at 07:40 AM

Fail to see any hate .... Bring up the costs of illegal and/or undocumented migration is just good planning IMO

As for the need for illegal gets "documents" off the street ... They really don't have to given the other pathways that are available

Forms of Identification for Undocumented Immigrants

https://cliniclegal.org/sites/default/files/advocacy/statean...

There are multiple sites where help is available for illegal and/or undocumented workers to obtain all the help they need ... once HERE !!!

I don't hate anyone .... Which includes Mexican's, great folks in most cases ... IMO

Planning for another 150M which are being forecasted by the CDC by 2050 is just something reasonable people MUST do, also IMO

There are one hell of a lot of people in the world that are suffering ... I'd like to help them all ... but, I realize I can't nor can the United States of American and/or the entire "west" ... right around 5 billion live in abject poverty ... lacking medical, education et al

I don't hate them ... I wish I could "improve" their lives immediately to the same level we enjoy, however, that is physically and financially impossible which has nothing to do with hate IMO

This may change ... as the weather changes :biggrin:

DaliDali - 12-5-2018 at 11:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

does anyone else find a bit of irony in certain posters on a site that primarily caters to expats/tourists disparaging Mexican/Latino immigrants while enjoying all mexico has to offer? i find their hate and smallness repellent.

Yeah, but they didn't they are entitled, and special. I could use better words.

Check out DaliDali's quotes, where he is always negativity stereotyping Mexicans, as dirt farmers, human smugglers, child exploiters, and bean eaters.

DaliDali, do you ever have nice things to say about Mexicans/Hispanics, or immigrants?

Visa overstays are not typically the poor dirt farmer looking to pick lettuce. Nor are they the drug smuggler, human smuggler and child exploiters. Poor dirt farmer often pays a coyote thousands$$ to lead them north."

" The poor family in the interior of Sonora pays 16% for that sack of beans, corn tortillas and some cooking oil, while the "deep pockets" along the border get a break at 8%

Sure Joe, being a full time resident of Mexico, I have many nice things to say about them.....everyday in fact.
I just told the tesoraria lady this morning, good morning and muchas gracias when I paid the property taxes.

Told the masera at the corner desayuno place good day and how are you, the huevos rancheros were excellent and left the appropriate propina.

Said good morning to the cashier gal at the local market and mentioned she looked very nice today.

Are there, or are there not, some Mexican workers who are poor and are not normally associated with visa overstayers?

Do or do not, some poor familes in Sonora buy beans, tortillas and cooking oil and pay 16% in VAT for them?

Next silly diversion??...

paranewbi - 12-5-2018 at 11:35 AM

"I don't hate them ... I wish I could "improve" their lives immediately to the same level we enjoy, however, that is physically and financially impossible which has nothing to do with hate IMO"

Not quite to the level we enjoy, but here's how my wife and I committed to helping a family in Guatemala stay together right were they are.

'Through The Eyes Of Juan'
available at shadowspath.net

wessongroup - 12-5-2018 at 11:52 AM

Also from the link

"The DSH program simply provides a general subsidy against a hospital's aggregate uncompensated care losses from uninsured patients. Nothing requires hospitals to back out their spending on uncompensated care for unauthorized immigrants from their aggregate losses; consequently, federal Medicaid funds end up indirectly subsidizing their care even though it would be expressly illegal to pay for their care by making them direct Medicaid recipients. "

Their is no mention of just children ... that I can see and coverage applies to medical care across the nation, as defined by DHS

Also the issuance of "municipal ID" which are then used to substitute for entry into all other Federal Programs, which is supported by this link ... A site of self help for illegal and/or undocumented immigrants.

Step 2: Find HUD housing programs for eligible noncitizens.
(noncitizen .. nice one)

https://affordablehousingonline.com/guide/housing-for-immigr...

Both examples showed that government funded programs in fact provide services to illegal and/or undocumented immigrants

And those services in fact are part of the budget's for: HUD, Medicare .... and Food Stamps all which are "costs" ... having nothing to do with: gender, age, race or nationality ... As that would be discrimination under Federal Law !! thus illegal :biggrin:

I'm having beef Tacos for lunch ... with beans and rice ... The America's gave us the best food in the world .. IMO

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by wessongroup]

BajaMama - 12-5-2018 at 04:10 PM

Social Security numbers are required for all forms of welfare, so a fake ID isn't gonna cut it.

DaliDali - 12-5-2018 at 04:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama

Social Security numbers are required for all forms of welfare, so a fake ID isn't gonna cut it.

Would a fake or stolen SS card do it?

4x4abc - 12-5-2018 at 05:21 PM

so, what's the bottom line of all this?
Non citizens harming the economy?
Non citizens straining the budget?

DaliDali - 12-5-2018 at 05:41 PM

so, what's the bottom line of all this?
Non citizens harming the economy?
Non citizens straining the budget?

Using a fake SS card or a stolen SS card is a criminal act.
It's criminal fraud....either a misdemeanor or felony.

Harm to the economy or straining the budget is immaterial.

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title11/1107.htm

]

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by DaliDali]

JoeJustJoe - 12-5-2018 at 08:43 PM

so, what's the bottom line of all this?
Non citizens harming the economy?
Non citizens straining the budget?

That TheBajarunner, wrote: " Two Thirds of all non-US citizens are on welfare."

That turns out from some so-called immigration "think tank" that has a history of bogus anti-immigration studies.

The title of the thread should give people a clue it's bogus, because the last few census done every 10 years, did not even ask a citizenship question, and would not release that kind of information. ( sadly in 2020 the current administration wants to ask citizenship questions, probably to under count Hispanics)

It's also strange that TheBajarunner, starts a thread like this since he has claimed for years that he is a real estate developer, an industry that exploits cheap labor, and is an industry that is dominated by Mexican immigrants, just ask Paranewbi about this.

DaliDali, not to be left out, wants to defend " The Center for Immigration Studies," and doubles down, on attacks on immigrants, by claiming undocumented are getting fake IDs to engage in welfare fraud!

There is no evidence that is happening in large numbers than a few isolated cases you sometimes hear in the news, and most of us know if undocumented are using fake SS numbers, it's to work, and not to commit welfare fraud.

mtgoat666 - 12-5-2018 at 10:00 PM

Two Thirds of all non-US citizens are on welfare"

And over 2/3 of baja nomads are on welfare (ss, medicare, prop 13, govt pension, senior discounts at the buffet, etc.)

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by mtgoat666]

You are just as ignorant as the other guy I had to answer

thebajarunner - 12-5-2018 at 10:47 PM

so, what's the bottom line of all this?
Non citizens harming the economy?
Non citizens straining the budget?

First of all, you do not know me, nor do you know anything about me.
And second, obviously you have no concept of what real estate "developer" entails.
I add value to land.... plain and simple
Whether by engineering, zoning, planning or simply improving its status, I make the process of building and expanding possible.
Yes, I happen to hold a current general contractor "B" license in California.
But I don't build!
I also happen to hold a real estate broker (not salesman) license and I don't sell real estate.
I do not employ "workers," only professionals in the design, engineering, and planning fields...... very well paid professionals, I might add.

So, make you a deal Mr. JJJ
You stay off my threads and don't answer my posts.
I promise to honor that and not post on any of your threads nor answer any of your posts.
Deal???

paranewbi - 12-6-2018 at 06:16 AM

Two quotes from the same JJJ
“Who wrote the book, " Through The Eyes Of Juan?" I don't even see it on Amazon.
It must not be a very good book, and in the 70's, undocumented Mexican workers was not a big problem, so if anybody is blaming undocumented Mexican workers for their lack of work in the 70's, is a loser, and he is engaged is scapegoating Mexicans”.

“It's also strange that TheBajarunner, starts a thread like this since he has claimed for years that he is a real estate developer, an industry that exploits cheap labor, and is an industry that is dominated by Mexican immigrants, just ask Paranewbi about this.”

Split tongue JJJ?

My answer to the first quote…
“By the way JJJ, it was a huge issue in the southwest in the late 70's. Your ignorance and irrational baseless musings are sad. I would suspect that your prejudicial biases are the strength of your existence.

I wrote the longest private editorial ever published in the San Diego Union when I (and my coworkers) were driven out of construction by the contractors hiring illegal immigrants. I appeared on the Roger Hedgec-ck radio show shortly after. My experience is documented and now published.”

Read and then critique. If you dare

pacificobob - 12-6-2018 at 07:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Two Thirds of all non-US citizens are on welfare"

And over 2/3 of baja nomads are on welfare (ss, medicare, prop 13, govt pension, senior discounts at the buffet, etc.)

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by mtgoat666]

socialists!

DaliDali - 12-6-2018 at 07:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Two Thirds of all non-US citizens are on welfare"

And over 2/3 of baja nomads are on welfare (ss, medicare, prop 13, govt pension, senior discounts at the buffet, etc.)

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by mtgoat666]

Outrageous Goat.....

Ever since 1940, working people and their employers have PAID into the "insurance" fund of SS, and Medicare since 1966, that guaranteed them coverage when the working years ended. Welfare NOT.

Prop 13 was a reduction in CA property taxes to 1% of assessed valuation...and since been raised to 2%.
Welfare NOT.

Government pensions that workers and their employers have PAID into all their careers. Welfare NOT

Senior discounts......oh my gawd the horror of it all.....A $10.95 breakfast at Dennys for ONLY $8.99 with FREE refills of coffee.

Be careful Goat.....your BFF Joe will flame you with "stereotype" on the claim of 2/3rds of Nomads are on welfare.

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by DaliDali]

DaliDali - 12-6-2018 at 07:58 AM

so, what's the bottom line of all this?
Non citizens harming the economy?
Non citizens straining the budget?

DaliDali, not to be left out, wants to defend " The Center for Immigration Studies," and doubles down, on attacks on immigrants, by claiming undocumented are getting fake IDs to engage in welfare fraud!

There is no evidence that is happening in large numbers than a few isolated cases you sometimes hear in the news, and most of us know if undocumented are using fake SS numbers, it's to work, and not to commit welfare fraud.

4x4abc and BajaMama gave this legs with the assertion that illegal aliens do not get welfare and do not use fake SS cards to get it.

I have presented you with multiple accounts of that exact thing happening and have happened.
Large numbers or small numbers......it is still a criminal fraud against the ratepayers.
Choose to discount it all is fine by me...but it remains.....a criminal fraud to use a fake ID to avail one's self of any public benefits, not available to non citizens.

And not one mention of CIS by me....not one link to CIS nor any reference to them by me whatsoever.

DaliDali - 12-6-2018 at 12:50 PM

The only deal I will make is don't start threads like this, because that's like ringing my door bell, and asking me to comment.

And some on here will call you out from time to time when the weeds get too thick around your ankles.

Such as.......promoting and excusing criminal fraud, excusing and promoting the illegality of entering another country without permission and the proper documents to do so, urging and condoning foreign nationals to enter Mexico without the proper documents to do so..urging and cheering mobs to crash the border in an attempt to get in.

Rant on about hate sites, far right wingers, some dude named Jones and CIS.....have at it..
But when you get off your feed and promote lawlessness to achieve some sort of "compassion"....that rings door bells also.

This is what anarchists do...."a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority"

JoeJustJoe - 12-6-2018 at 12:54 PM

Nice try DaliDali, as usual, but nobody called anybody a liar, John, and myself, talked about the industry standard in real estate development, not anybody personal standards. ( I purposely did this so no one could claim, not me....I only hire Americans or lawful immigrants)

Paranewbi, pretty much said in the 70's, construction work was dominated by Mexicans, and I'm pretty sure he meant undocumented workers.

So don't try to deny the obvious DaliDali about Real Estate, and construction dominated by Hispanic workers. Thank God, there are other industries someone could work at with a low unemployment rate in the US.

DaliDali wrote: "come one, come all immigrant workers, the hungry, tired, wanting a better life, a slice of America,"

That kinda sounds like what's written on the statue of liberty, and what made America, a great country and great melting pot. Do you have a problem with it DaliDali?

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." ( great words, although back then European immigrants were attacked too by American nativists in America. )

DaliDali, do you have any Alex Jones, "Infowars" articles/links to post? If I had a choice between "CIS" and "Inforwars," I would choose CIS.

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

DaliDali - 12-6-2018 at 02:20 PM

DaliDali wrote: "come one, come all immigrant workers, the hungry, tired, wanting a better life, a slice of America,"

That kinda sounds like what's written on the statue of liberty, and what made America, a great country and great melting pot. Do you have a problem with it DaliDali?

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." ( great words, although back then European immigrants were attacked too by American nativists in America. )

DaliDali, do you have any Alex Jones, "Infowars" articles/links to post? If I had a choice between "CIS" and "Inforwars," I would choose CIS.

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

It's not in the 1800's anymore Joe, when a young America was in a big growth spurt that needed immigrants to spread and populate the hinterlands.
And those immigrants had to go thru the established POE's and the requirements to be granted entry didn't they?

These early immigrants did not just jump ship off New York and hit the countryside running did they Joe?

The USA has allowed in 47 million immigrants as of 2015, or 19% of immigrants worldwide.....
So the tired and poor message still remains....just do it legally.

In there here and now, there are quotas on how many foreign workers are allowed to immigrate for work activities, and for obvious, reasons since some Arabs decided to blow things up.

Any others who ignore this and go on to jump the fence are doing so contrary to the law of the land. Precisely what an anarchist wants......disobiedience to established rules and laws.

I don't even know who Alex Jones is Joe...yet you continue to place me in his realm of influence.....what's up with that?

Stay out of the weeds Joe.....you'll be ok.

chuckie - 12-6-2018 at 04:27 PM

American Agribusiness would shut down without undocumented workers.

TMW - 12-6-2018 at 04:49 PM

It's not very often I hear of ICE picking up undocumented aliens. I can only remember two cases this year. One was when ICE was chasing a man and wife and they died when their car crashed. Turns out the man wasn't the guy they were after. The man and wife were illegal but ICE was after another man. Another was a student at Bakersfield College. His friends and the college got him a lawyer and he's back in school pending a review by the courts. I'm sure there are others but it's just not something happening on a daily basis, around here anyway. Maybe ICE picks people up and it doesn't get reported to the media.

Our house cleaners and our gardener are Hispanics but I don't know if they are legal or not, never asked them. I do know they go to Mexico on a regular basis to visit family so I assume they are legal.

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by TMW]

Bubba - 12-6-2018 at 05:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

American Agribusiness would shut down without undocumented workers.

Bullchit. I live in the middle of agriculture and it is alive and well without undocumented workers. I personally know a few plant managers and they are very thorough in their background checks on immigration status.

DaliDali - 12-6-2018 at 05:17 PM

Take the jobs Americans won't do.

Now just why the hell not?

Put down the bong and turnoff the PacMan game and get your hiney out the door and come back with your neck sunburned and dirt under your nails or go live with your other doper pals.

Alm - 12-6-2018 at 06:13 PM