BajaNomad - Question: Passport expired. Can I cross the border?

.... fill out a FMM, which is not actually a visa, but rather it's a tourist card, although it's popular to call it a tourist visa. ( whatever)

An FMM functions as a Visa. Just because it's not a sticker in your passport like several other countries doesn't change this fact. Australia doesn't have a sticker either. It's referred to as an eVisa.

The FMM grants non-residents temporary access to MX. That's the definition of a visa, period.

JoeJustJoe - 12-26-2018 at 01:47 PM

Regarding a FMM:

From "Baja Bound:"

According to the INM, an FMM, or Forma Migratoria Múltiple is an "admission document" issued to vacationing visitors of certain nationalities. Although the tourist card (FMM) is also popularly known as a tourist "visa," it is not officially a visa. ... The tourist card application is now available online as well.

JZ - 12-26-2018 at 01:54 PM

Regarding a FMM:

From "Baja Bound:"

According to the INM, an FMM, or Forma Migratoria Múltiple is an "admission document" issued to vacationing visitors of certain nationalities. Although the tourist card (FMM) is also popularly known as a tourist "visa," it is not officially a visa. ... The tourist card application is now available online as well.

An SEO page on an insurance company website is what you are gonna use in this argument, really? I think DK actually wrote that for them. Or some other ghost writer. I honestly thought you were smarter than that.

This is a more legit source:

A visa (from the Latin charta visa, meaning "paper that has been seen") is a conditional authorization granted by a country to a foreigner, allowing them to enter, remain within, or to leave that country. ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_visa

"A Visa is an endorsement that grants the holder official permission to enter, leave or stay in a country for a specified time period.

The most common visa types are tourist, student, work and transit visas. Depending on where you are traveling, a visa can be valid for single or multiple visits. Some visas require an application to be filed prior to entering the country and other visas are granted upon entering the country. Certain countries require an interview or medical screening prior to applying for a visa."

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, guess what, it's a visa.

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by JZ]

mtgoat666 - 12-26-2018 at 02:02 PM

An SEO page on an insurance company website is what you are gonna use in his argument, really? I think DK actually wrote that for them. Or some other ghost writer.

This is a more legit source:

A visa (from the Latin charta visa, meaning "paper that has been seen") is a conditional authorization granted by a country to a foreigner, allowing them to enter, remain within, or to leave that country. ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_visa

[Edited on 12-26-2018 by JZ]

“Visa” is a generic word meaning travel permission.
Travel is so easy and cheap these days. Everyone should have a passport, and use it! I dont understand people that dont have need for a passport...

JoeJustJoe - 12-26-2018 at 02:08 PM

JZ, I'll let you call the FMM, whatever you want. I myself just call it a stinking FMM, and I don't believe if you have a passport but don't have a FMM, then you're considered an illegal American alien, like some do.

The fact is Americans don't need a VISA to travel to Mexico. So the FMM is not a Visa.
______________________________________________

VISAS

Citizens of the following countries DO NOT need a visa to enter Mexico:

Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Island, Israel, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, United States of America, Uruguay or Venezuela.

You will however be required to present a valid passport and fill out an immigration form for tourists and business trips, which can be obtained in travel agencies, airlines or upon arrival in Mexico.

Citizens of any other country should visit a Mexican consulate abroad to ask about the requirements and to take the necessary steps to obtain a visa. The requirements differ from country to country.

Hook - 12-26-2018 at 07:12 PM

For one FLEETING second, I read the subject line and the author and thought, "My God, JJJ is actually going to go to Mexico".

Nope............still just talkin' the talk.

:rolleyes:

JZ - 12-26-2018 at 08:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

For one FLEETING second, I read the subject line and the author and thought, "My God, JJJ is actually going to go to Mexico".

Nope............still just talkin' the talk.

:rolleyes:

Wait, JJJ is just another one of the randos on this board who bangs on their keyboard, but never in fact goes to Baja?

JoeJustJoe - 12-26-2018 at 08:57 PM

[

Wait, JJJ is just another one of the randos on this board who bangs on their keyboard, but never in fact goes to Baja?

Wrong again JZ, just like you posted a FMM, is a Visa. When US citizens do not need a Visa to come to Mexico.

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

JZ - 12-26-2018 at 09:20 PM

Wait, JJJ is just another one of the randos on this board who bangs on their keyboard, but never in fact goes to Baja?

Wrong again JZ, just like you posted a FMM, is a Visa. When US citizens do not need a Visa to come to Mexico.

You are a retard if you don't think it is a visa. It's the literal definition of a visa. If you traveled around the world you'd know this.

Ppl just have to jump through more hoops to get permission to go to MX if they don't live in certain countries.

But apparently you are just a key board warrior and you don't even go to Baja. So, of course you don't need a visa.

JoeJustJoe - 12-27-2018 at 09:09 AM

Nobody calls the FMM a Visa. They usually call it a tourist pass. If you want to call the FMM a visa-light, I don't care. If you read my post, I said, call it whatever you want. You are the one who is getting anal over the definition of a visa.

I guess you can also call a zebra a horse, and you can call a passport, a visa, because with a passport, it essentially allows you to cross into some countries like Canada.

If you call both a Mexican Visa, and a FMM both a Visa, you confuse the issue, because there is extensive paperwork, and other requirements involved with a real Visa, that is not required to entry Mexico for US citizens.

It's you JZ who is the keyboard warrior, because you are the one who is attacking and insulting.

BTW, most world travels, do not tow their kids around the world with them, nor do they try to game the passport renewal system by calling them on the phone and begging them if they could hurry up.

A real world traveler, would just do it the right way, and pay the extra bucks for a expedited passport.

JoeJustJoe - 12-27-2018 at 09:42 AM

BTW that thread is still going on at "Talk Baja" with various opinions, where the members get caught up with their own notion of what the immigration laws are of the two countries, and what they personally would do.

________________________________
From TB: Highlights

LeAnn wrote: US Customs and Border patrol prefer you have a passport when re-entering the USA but will not deny entry to US citizens w/o a passport.
_________
Shawn wrote: LeeAnn Phillips that’s not the point! They hold up the line for everyone else and it’s still not legal to be in Mexico without a resident card or an FMM which you need a PASSPORT to obtain!!
___________________
Steve wrote: An expired passport worked for me for years, be legal though.
_________________
Karen wrote: depends upon how far down you go...i would not travel without one below Ensenada.
_____________
Shawn wrote: Karen Ann Hansen Alvarado legally you need an FMM as soon as you cross the border...no more free zones....and that requires a passport
_____________
Jeff wrote: Taylor, dont question it, just renew your passport, and require everybody in your group to have one. Done deal, case closed.
__________
Steve wrote: Taylor, dont question it, just renew your passport, and require everybody in your group to have one. Done deal, case closed.
_________
Johnny wrote: I have seen people cross with EBT cards. I have people go with me cross with only ID
_____________
Liz wrote: You need your passport in order to return to the US.
______________
Ron wrote: Not really, as a US citizen you can't be denied entry into the US, It will just take longer for you to get cleared.
_______________
Liz wrote: How do you prove that you are a US citizen w/o a passport?

__________
JJJ comments:

I agree with LeAnn, Steve, Karen, Johnny,

I think Shawn is mostly wrong, and Liz, is wound up too tight.

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

JZ - 12-27-2018 at 09:52 AM

BTW, most world travels, do not tow their kids around the world with them...

Sorry to hear you never took your kids anywhere. Hopefully, they don't hold it against you too much.

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by JZ]

David K - 12-27-2018 at 09:53 AM

When people ask about crossing the border, they often forget to mention which direction! American returning to America have been strongly encouraged to have passports for speedy identification but other ID or verbal declaration have been accepted by U.S. agents.

Americans entering Mexico are required to have passports now and required to obtain tourist cards now. The problem with that is, the free-flowing traffic line across the border does not stop and check every car to verify this... so some Americans cross without these documents and are never asked for them while in Mexico.

All American tourists must have an FMM, per the Mexican government. Americans are NOT required to get a visa for Mexico, says the Mexican government. An FMM is NOT a visa despite that it works very much like a visa... even getting a stamp in your passport. The FMM was called an FM-T before and both were/ are known as TOURIST CARDS.

JoeJustJoe - 12-27-2018 at 10:19 AM

Sorry to hear you never took your kids anywhere. Hopefully, they don't hold it against you too much.

Wrong again, I used to take my kids to many foreign countries, especially Mexico, and Hawaii, in the USA, just about every year.

The point I was trying to make, is kids and world travel are not compatible, and traveling while kids are off school, is called a "road trip" or a summer vacation.

BTW JZ, David K. also says a FMM is not a Visa, so go insult him.

mtgoat666 - 12-27-2018 at 10:21 AM

JoeJustJoe: “Nobody calls the FMM a Visa.”

Call me nobody!

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by mtgoat666]

David K - 12-27-2018 at 10:24 AM

It isn't and it is not me saying it isn't it is Mexico. A VISA is NOT required for American visitors. The FMM is a TOURIST CARD. The confusion is that it is acting the same as a visa, but can't be called a visa... maybe for some treaty between our countries. Mexicans coming to the U.S. get a GREEN CARD.

Edit: Here is the list of countries and if a visa is required for Mexico: https://www.gob.mx/cms/uploads/attachment/file/8932/visasord...

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by David K]

mtgoat666 - 12-27-2018 at 10:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

It isn't and it is not me saying it isn't it is Mexico. A VISA is NOT required for American visitors. The FMM is a TOURIST CARD. The confusion is that it is acting the same as a visa, but can't be called a visa... maybe for some treaty between our countries. Mexicans coming to the U.S. get a GREEN CARD.

Edit: Here is the list of countries and if a visa is required for Mexico: https://www.gob.mx/cms/uploads/attachment/file/8932/visasord...

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by David K]

You are being a pedantic a$$. If i called your toyota an “automobile,” you would dispute that and insist it be called a “truck”

Fmm is just a form of visa

JoeJustJoe - 12-27-2018 at 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

JoeJustJoe: “Nobody calls the FMM a Visa.”

Call me nobody!
___________

“Visa” is a generic word meaning travel permission.
Travel is so easy and cheap these days. Everyone should have a passport, and use it! I dont understand people that dont have need for a passport...

Nobody, aka the Goat, let me answer your question to help you understand why not everybody has a passport, because I get tired of hearing people like Shawn from TB say, " Taylor, dont question it, just renew your passport, and require everybody in your group to have one. Done deal, case closed."

We have lot of people like Shawn here on "BN' too.

The answer, is passports are expensive for some people, especially if you're a Mexican-American, family with like three kids. Passports for a family of five, will set you back for about $550.00, and that's a lot of money for some families.

Other people from the US, may be unable to get a passport or renew their passport, because they may owe the IRS back taxes, or some other reason that has the Federal Gov, or State, wanting their cut.

So why not tell these people what the Mexican-American family already knows. Yes, it's possible to cross into Mexico, and back without a passport, or FMM. In fact it's very easy to do, and thousands of people do it everyday.

If you drive over the border, it's even easier to do, because Mexico has no procedures in place to require every car be checked for legal requirements, and therefore, they are not enforcing it at this time.

The law is that your supposed to have a passport, but US Customs, will let you through and at the most, will remind you of the passport requirement for next time.

Some people think giving out this information is like telling them to break the law, like if your telling them how to smuggle drugs over the border.

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

DaliDali - 12-27-2018 at 11:28 AM

BTW that thread is still going on at "Talk Baja" with various opinions, where the members get caught up with their own notion of what the immigration laws are of the two countries, and what they personally would do.

________________________________
JJJ comments:

I agree with LeAnn, Steve, Karen, Johnny,

I think Shawn is mostly wrong, and Liz, is wound up too tight.

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

STILL trolling another site...…
When you know all the answers.

yes it's a visa, no it's not a visa, yes it's a fmm, no it's not, yes you need one, no you do not, it's a stupid rule, no dammit I said I don't need no stinking fmm.

Why are you even here?....all you do is argue with people over what the meaning of is is...….Pick fights over banks, corrupt cops, jackboots or anything that does not align with your idea of what utopia should be.
For 18 years and 20 thousand posts.

And now, signing on the "evil" FB AGAIN, where they steal your personal data, while you troll along in keyboard warrior fashion, searching for anything that can be used to disparage the opinions of others concerning Baja.

Yeah ok...you have a hernia with talk baja, yeah you have a lower intestinal blockage with FB...
NO one cares.

What a guy!!!

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by DaliDali]

JoeJustJoe - 12-27-2018 at 12:42 PM

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK, and then claim it's JoeJustJoe, who is doing the attacking!

Attack attack attack, anyone who looks differently, acts differently, or thinks differently.

I know there are lots of rumors about me, none of them accurate, except that I'm not white, that much is true. I'm also not an ultra conservative white old man, who wants to be surrounded by other ultra conservative white old men who all think exactly the same. How boring.

Mexico is not the US, and Mexico is not just black and white, there is a lot of gray areas, and the same thing could be said about the US, where clearly YOU COULD RETURN TO THE US ARMED WITH ONLY A DRIVER LICENSE AND BIRTH CERTIFICATE WITH NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER DESPITE WHATS LISTED ON OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITES.

YOU COULD ALSO DRIVE RIGHT OVER THE BORDER WITHOUT GETTING A FMM PASS CARD, VISA OR WHATEVER ELSE YOU WANT TO CALL IT.

MEXICO IS NOT ENFORCING ANY FMM REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVERS NOR ARE THEY SET UP TO HANDLE THE TRAFFIC AT THIS TIME IF EVERYBODY STOPPED. YOU ARE ON THE HONOR SYSTEM.

Ok lets hear from the square pegs, trying to fit into a round hole repeat, ITS THE LAW, YOU MUST HAVE A PASSPORT AND FMM BECAUSE IT'S THE LAW.

NEXT QUESTION: BLAH BLAH BLAH........IT'S THE LAW, IT'S THE LAW...but but nobody seems to be following the law, and even the Mexican officials just wave you through. WHAT DID I TELL YOU, IT'S THE LAW!

[Edited on 12-27-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

DaliDali - 12-27-2018 at 12:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

Every day, month in and month out, for 18 years and 20,000 times.

My guess is that most of those posts evoked replies, so apparently it works... :bounce:

That they do and will do.....
Mildly entertaining none the less...

And especially from someone who claims "at least Mexican heritage"

There is a Pattern Here

MrBillM - 12-27-2018 at 01:41 PM

JJJ starts a controversial thread for the sole purpose of generating comments which he can then attack.

Going around and around, back and forth, with varying degrees of vitriol and serving absolutely no purpose.

And, it works everytime.

Incredible.

JoeJustJoe - 12-27-2018 at 02:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM

JJJ starts a controversial thread for the sole purpose of generating comments which he can then attack.

Going around and around, back and forth, with varying degrees of vitriol and serving absolutely no purpose.

And, it works everytime.

Incredible.

Well actually I saw how popular this thread was at "TB" compared to the usually stuff of members showing photos of dead fish over at TB.

So I thought I would bring the thread over here, since there is less censorship here, than that site.

My main motivation is always self entertainment and spreading accurate information regarding Mexico. I'm also a little like David K. I like to start threads to get the discussion going.

Bill, you're just jealous because you just love to get a rise out of people, but you really can't because you fit the profile of most members here, except that you're also a never Trumpster, and have only one issue to disagree with the masses here. ( Bill have you thought of joining the democrat party?)

Maybe, we should invite them over to the OT to get things off their chest.

Brian L - 12-27-2018 at 03:47 PM

Weirdly, I no longer have a valid passport, but I have a Sentri card and can travel northbound with that with no problems. I last drove into TJ, so didn't get checked southbound. Haven't tried walking south, but wonder if my Sentri card would suffice for the FMM?

DaliDali - 12-27-2018 at 03:55 PM

Weirdly, I no longer have a valid passport, but I have a Sentri card and can travel northbound with that with no problems. I last drove into TJ, so didn't get checked southbound. Haven't tried walking south, but wonder if my Sentri card would suffice for the FMM?

Brian....you must have a passport book or card to obtain the FMM document.

A Sentri card in no way replaces a passport.

You can drive into Mexico without that FMM document, but it is Mexican law to obtain one..

elgatoloco - 12-27-2018 at 05:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

You used your passport card to get your FMM? That's great that they are now accepting the cards. Must be recent change because they were not accepting them in May when we stopped in to get our 180 FMM.

JoeJustJoe - 12-27-2018 at 05:37 PM

I think you're a little confused there Elgatoloco.

Brian is asking, and I'll quote him, " but wonder if my Sentri card would suffice for the FMM?

Well, you know what I would tell Brian, but I'm sure Brian, is interested in other opinions than just mine.

DaliDali - 12-27-2018 at 05:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

Sorry to hear you had a tough go using your card.

A US issued card is the same as the book, only no pages and only good for land and sea ports.

No I didn't use my card, haven't for many years since I got the permanent resident card. No need to apply for a FMM.

I only use it at the gate going to the USA.

JZ - 12-27-2018 at 08:34 PM

I'd get one. Sounds like a reason to yank your card.

Pacifico - 12-27-2018 at 08:36 PM

I'd get one. Sounds like a reason to yank your card.

I agree, JZ!

JoeJustJoe - 12-28-2018 at 08:22 AM

Just like you drove in TJ last time. You will unlikely be checked southbound. They just don't have the procedures in place to check all foreigners by car, like they do with foreign pedestrians.

If you try walking southbound, you will have to go through Mexican customs, and you will need your passport to get the FMM. There are a few rare times during the pedestrian walkway, the Mexican officials, just wave everybody through without checking passports or filling out FMM tourist permits.

Bubba - 12-28-2018 at 09:04 AM

I'd get one. Sounds like a reason to yank your card.

Absolutely! No reason why anyone should not have a passport!

JoeJustJoe - 12-28-2018 at 09:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bubba

Absolutely! No reason why anyone should not have a passport!

I could think of a few reasons why someone might not have a passport, and I'm not here to judge.
________________________

Reasons for Denial of U.S. Passports in 2018

Financial Reasons

In a few situations, the Department of Homeland Security reports that you might be refused a passport except for direct return to the U.S. due to financial debt. The first of these cases occurs when the applicant has defaulted on a loan from the U.S. government for repatriation of the applicant and his or her spouse, minor children and other immediate family members from a foreign country. Another happens when the Secretary of Health and Human Services has certified the applicant as
owing too much in child support.

Criminal Reasons

https://traveltips.usatoday.com/reasons-denial-us-passports-...

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2018 at 09:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bubba

Absolutely! No reason why anyone should not have a passport!

Ok, there is no reason to not have a passport, unless you are a flock up.

elgatoloco - 12-28-2018 at 11:32 AM

Never confused joe. Dali said, and I will qoute him, "Brian....you must have a passport book or card to obtain the FMM document". That is what I was commenting on. You need to pay better attention?

I have had Sentri for 15+ years, I have a Passport and a Passport Card and I always have a current FMM. In May the good folks at the San Ysidro migra counter were not accepting the Passport Card for FMM.
YMMV

JoeJustJoe - 12-28-2018 at 12:28 PM

Oh excuse me, I had no idea that you believed Mexican customs, does not accept the Passport card.

As far as I know the Passport cards, are acceptable by land and sea within Mexico, Canada, Bermuda, and the Caribbean.

So it's acceptable if you're taking the Pedestrian walkway to Tijuana.

Now a passport card is not acceptable at the airport if you're flying, then you need a passport.

Elgatoloco, did this personally happen to you?

If so were you at the airport or pedestrian walk way?

So what happened? Did you then flip out your passport, and if so, why carry both?

Did they send you home?

Did they just forget about the FMM and let your through? If they let you through, then no problem.

Or did it happened to somebody else, and maybe you didn't' hear the whole conversation?

If that happened to me, I would ask for the Supervisor, and ask what's going on? A passport card is perfectly acceptable.

If they then refused me, I would go get my car at the parking lot, and just drive right in, because I know they do not have a check point where they are requiring foreign drivers to stop and get a FMM.

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

thebajarunner - 12-29-2018 at 11:05 AM

In June they issued FMM at San Ysidro to three of us using our passport cards.
Also, yesterday (as noted on a different thread) I walked across at Otay and the young woman on the migra desk took a quick glance at my card and waved me on with a smile and not any effort to reach for the FMM app. "You're good," she said with a nice smile.

John Harper - 12-29-2018 at 11:13 AM

In May the good folks at the San Ysidro migra counter were not accepting the Passport Card for FMM.
YMMV

I went to Mike's Sky Rancho last April and they accepted my passport card for an FMM at San Ysidro. I just got the seven day free one, however.

John

JoeJustJoe - 12-29-2018 at 11:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

In June they issued FMM at San Ysidro to three of us using our passport cards.
Also, yesterday (as noted on a different thread) I walked across at Otay and the young woman on the migra desk took a quick glance at my card and waved me on with a smile and not any effort to reach for the FMM app. "You're good," she said with a nice smile.

Exactly, and I have the same experience as you, when I show Mexican customs, either my passport or passcard, is about 60% of the time, they hand me back my passport/passport card, without having to fill out the FMM, after I tell them by trip will be brief.

Supposedly, the free zone, ended in 2015, and there is some debate if there was ever a free zone, but some Mexican officials, still treat a trip over the border, as it's a free zone trip.

Of course Bajarunner, some will say, just do the right thing and get the FMM, because it's the LAW! They might also tell you, to insist on the FMM, even if the custom official rolls their eyes, and just waved you through.

There is no procedure to turn in your FMM at San Ysidro. It's not wonder they throw it in the trash, although in the back of the FMM, it says to turn it in upon exit.

[Edited on 12-29-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

BajaRat - 12-29-2018 at 02:32 PM

My understanding was without a valid FMM your Mexican auto insurance was void.
Does anyone know if that's true ?
Thanks Lionel :cool:

DaliDali - 12-29-2018 at 05:19 PM