BajaNomad - FMM for the new caravan???

FMM for the new caravan???

thebajarunner - 1-19-2019 at 04:41 PM

We can only assume that the last wave that came across this weekend on the southern border with Guatemala did not stop and obtain their FMM cards.

Ergo...... if we go down in a "caravan" to visit Baja are we now exempt from obtaining the FMM?

We go down every spring with 4 to 6 vehicles and a dozen guys, sort of our own unofficial "Caravan"
Guess we no longer have to pony up 500 pesos to be legal if we are a "Caravan"
:lol:

John Harper - 1-20-2019 at 06:13 AM

Based on the number of CA/USA plated cars I see entering Mexico compared to the small number stopping at the immigration office, I'd suspect a decent sized "caravan" of Americans invades Mexico daily without documentation.

John

DaliDali - 1-20-2019 at 08:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Based on the number of CA/USA plated cars I see entering Mexico compared to the small number stopping at the immigration office, I'd suspect a decent sized "caravan" of Americans invades Mexico daily without documentation.

John

I "suspect" most of those US plated vehicles belong to Mexicans living in Baja and driving their US plated vehicles back into Mexico.

I "suspect" the remainder are US residents going into Mexico for a day trip, weekender or a two week vacation......and going BACK home...…..Just like John Harper.

John Harper - 1-20-2019 at 08:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

I disagree with your first statement (unless you can prove it?), but I concur with your second. You haven't ever read me post about being an FMM "red ass", have you? If I'm going south for an extended trip, of course I get an FMM, otherwise, no.

Mexico had 7.86 million US visitors in 10 months in 2016, that's 26,200 per day!!!
https://www.journeymexico.com/blog/mexico-tourism-facts-stat...

Wow, that's like 5 caravans per day. I wonder how many FMM's per day they processed compared to that number?

Don't forget how many Mexicans also visit the US every day, and then return to their own home country.

John

[Edited on 1-20-2019 by John Harper]

JoeJustJoe - 1-20-2019 at 09:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

It's called white privilege, and many Americans believe they can come to Mexico, whenever they want, and even live in Mexico, with papers or no papers whenever they want. However, if they're Trump voters or Trump fans, they want a great wall built to keep Mexicans, and other Hispanics out of the US.

What you see entering the immigration office to get a FMM, tourist permit, is only a small fraction of foreigners stopping to get a FMM, because Mexico doesn't have a procedural in place to check all cars like they do with pedestrians.

[Edited on 1-20-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

David K - 1-20-2019 at 09:41 AM

There is such a huge difference...

An invasion is when uninvited foreigners don't use the legal border crossings.

Americans going to Mexico drive freely through legal borders and when red-lighted, they stop. Not having a piece of paper with them is not the same as sneaking in to get a job, live there, or use free services.

JoeJustJoe - 1-20-2019 at 10:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

There is such a huge difference...

An invasion is when uninvited foreigners don't use the legal border crossings.

Americans going to Mexico drive freely through legal borders and when red-lighted, they stop. Not having a piece of paper with them is not the same as sneaking in to get a job, live there, or use free services.

I'm really not talking about Americans coming into Mexico, and getting the FMM, that you even admit, 90% of Americans, don't bother to get.

I'm talking about the easy Mexican immigration system, that just about allows anyone to live in Mexico, if they make the low income requirements, however, sadly many Americans on only social security, can't even make Mexico's low income requirements, so they live in Mexico, as American illegal aliens or they game the system with temporarily FMM tourist permits they renew every six months.

In Rosarito, where I used to live part time, there are whole bunch of American illegal aliens, who are on social security disability, especially supposedly suffering from a mental disability, and in fact I know a couple of the Baja forums, but I don't think they are pretending, and they are in fact crazy, and a few of them are also very racist!

Sorry to say David K. you sometimes bring up white privileged topics, where you expect the US to build a great big wall, and have a tough immigration system, while on the other hand David K, you expect Mexico, to have a lax immigration system because you feel the gringo dollars is very important to Mexico, and therefore, Mexico should bend over backwards and allows Americans in Mexico with ease.

Mexican immigrants, papers or no papers, pay taxes in the US both directly and indirectly, and are a net plus to the US, and have always been like all immigrants to the US looking at history.

[Edited on 1-20-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

David K - 1-20-2019 at 10:28 AM

It's up to Mexico... If they think it benefits their people to have Americans (and their money to spend) to travel or live in Mexico, easily, who are we to have a problem with that? Americans don't travel to Mexico and then demand free services or social security, do they?

As Americans, we also have a right to control who comes into our country. Since people to the south of us seem to cross the border where ever they want and not at legal ports of entry, a wall has proved to be the only deterrent as they go to where there is no wall.

Southbound Gringos

MrBillM - 1-20-2019 at 10:31 AM

Bring and SPEND $$$$$$$$$$.

Mexican officialdom pragmatically enforces THEIR immigration regulations with THAT in mind. They can adjust their thinking and procedures if they so desire.

The Northbound peasantry bring NEED and place an initial and immediate financial burden on the U.S. !

While there are arguments (including economic and humanitarian) to be made on BOTH sides of the immigration issue, it is dishonest to draw a comparison between U.S. citizens and residents traveling to Mexico and those Central American immigrants coming North.

JoeJustJoe - 1-20-2019 at 11:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

It's up to Mexico... If they think it benefits their people to have Americans (and their money to spend) to travel or live in Mexico, easily, who are we to have a problem with that? Americans don't travel to Mexico and then demand free services or social security, do they?

As Americans, we also have a right to control who comes into our country. Since people to the south of us seem to cross the border where ever they want and not at legal ports of entry, a wall has proved to be the only deterrent as they go to where there is no wall.

Yeah, but you have ranted before about Mexico's immigration being tougher, and you though it was pretty stupid, because Americans bring in so much money. Well, at least you respect Mexican immigration polices, while you rant against them.

I'm pretty much an open border person myself, since I was born in the US, and American, although I'm Latino. I could pretty much live in any country I want, except for a few like North Korea, which I wouldn't want to live in anyway.

I think people should basically live anywhere they want, and that's why I really don't care about all those American illegal aliens, in Rosarito, on social security disability, with many with mental issues.

C,mon David K, give Mexican workers more credit when coming to the USA, they come to work in the USA, not get on welfare, or social security, which they are not entitled too if they are undocumented.

You David K. of all people should know who hard working Mexican immigrant work, because you have said, that you do sprinkler repair and landscaping, in addition to writing Spanish mission books.

I suspect Mexican workers, pretty much put you out of work, and that's where your hostility may come from?????

Hell, I would hire you, but I already put down grass on a house with a big yard was giving me problems. On three zones I have six sprinklers heads but one zone I have 11 heads, so the water pressure was pretty low. I had no idea how to fix it, so I shut off 3 of the 11 heads, and that's only a partial fix. I guess I could also go to Craig's list, and hire a Mexican landscaper or plumber on the cheap.

Sandlefoot - 1-20-2019 at 11:52 AM

Those crossing illegally do benefit! And there are times they don't need to cross to benefit!!

https://www.facebook.com/RyanAFournier/videos/12142120420890...

John Harper - 1-20-2019 at 02:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali

The topic was about a "caravan"......how many of those who do get in, go back home?
How many are claiming a valid reason to get in, vs how many just want some money? Being poor is not a qualifier for a claim of asylum is it John?

You got me, I'll concede a wee bit of hyperbole in my post. "Invade" was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I also question how they arrived at those visitation numbers as well. Maybe from FMM paperwork? Who knows. It's pretty clear counting cars in the border line is a pretty subjective (and unlikely) measure. As Mark Twain alluded to, statistics can be slippery.

From what I have read, you are correct, there is no economic basis for seeking asylum. However, people are allowed to apply and have their cases heard. I can't vouch for any particular person's claim, but, it's clear these folks are not "tourists" in a traditional sense. I guess as long as Mexico allows transit, that's their business and prerogative. As long as they follow our laws when applying for asylum, and they get a fair hearing, I really have no standing to complain. The least we can do is process them fairly and humanely after they apply.

John

Whale-ista - 1-20-2019 at 02:18 PM

Related to the original post: this article is popping up on social media today.

The dates of the various studies it cites are from 2015- not sure when this first was published.

https://www.wearelatinlive.com/article/4487/heres-a-twist-91...

drzura - 1-20-2019 at 02:58 PM

Hell.... if Americans are living in Mexico illegally, deport them. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Each country has laws and they should be followed.

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista

Related to the original post: this article is popping up on social media today.

The dates of the various studies it cites are from 2015- not sure when this first was published.

https://www.wearelatinlive.com/article/4487/heres-a-twist-91...

DaliDali - 1-20-2019 at 03:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista

Extremely shaky and unverifiable numbers right out of the gate.

"The United State’s State Department confirms that almost a million Americans are living illegally in Mexico"

The US State department doesn't have a clue.

NO ONE COUNTS US CITIZENS going into Mexico, either to live or to go fishing.
How would the US State department know the numbers of American living in Mexico illegally?

One ringy dingy......two ringy dingy.."Ah yes is this Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State?...Ok good, I want to report to you I am an American and am living in Mexico illegally....ok no problem you say, thank you have a nice day"

There are NO US agents of the State department or any other Federal department at the south bound gate counting and documenting each and every "estadounidense" who enters Mexico.
Nor are there requirements of Americans to inform the US State Department their intention to live in Mexico. No forms, no electronic docs or any other mandates to inform a destination.

All they can do is a "best guess"

I can neither verify or confirm the numbers of 92% of Americans living in Mexico are doing so illegally.

Here is the kicker that got me on this Latino site..Would this give one a proclivity to know where their sentiments lie?

"But unlike the way the US treats so called “illegals,” Mexico does not deport Americans. In contrast the Mexican government remains much more flexible and understanding towards the influx of undocumented immigrants from the United States'

Assuming the numbers of American "illegals" of 935K is anywhere near close........

Would Mexico have a problem with 10 to 15 times that number living, working and using Mexican resources, while in illegal status?

caj13 - 1-20-2019 at 04:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

You miss what I said... first off, I didn't say it was Mexicans (other people are south of our border). People who want to work here are great. My issue is more with the rewarding illegal crossers with all sorts of cash benefits that deters them from needing to work while those who wait for documents to enter legally get no such reward. That is more the fault with liberals in America who use people like this for getting votes and are more to blame for the illegal activity. Just who is it in Honduras that encouraged these people to think there was some pot of gold waiting for them here?

OK so what exactly are these "Cash Benefits" you speak of, with legit citations of course! If we want to civily debate this, we need to start with a collection of facts and information - right?

John Harper - 1-20-2019 at 06:49 PM

It's too bad we can't come to a basic agreement on some numbers associated with the issues. But, as Mr. Dali has deftly pointed out, they all seem flawed or easily debunked. How do they know how many people go in either direction, or how many illegals? It all seems like guesses. Makes your head spin.

Of course, maybe we should agree on some specific issues first, then break them down.

Maybe this is the conundrum of the "post truth" world we live in.

John

[Edited on 1-21-2019 by John Harper]

Alm - 1-20-2019 at 08:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Americans don't travel to Mexico and then demand free services or social security, do they?

Actually, they do. People with resident papers could tell you, if you ask. Though, being Mexico, there is not much to be had, from American's perspective.