BajaNomad

Trump Caves No Wall money

JoeJustJoe - 1-25-2019 at 12:30 PM

Breaking Trump caves, short term deal, no wall money!

_________________________________________

Trump Announces Short-Term Plan To Reopen Government During Funding Negotiations

The announcement comes on the 35th day of the partial government shutdown.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-government-shutdo...

pacificobob - 1-25-2019 at 12:50 PM

bravo Nancy!

JoeJustJoe - 1-25-2019 at 02:03 PM

David K. Just said, it wasn't a cave, CNN, then he erased his message.

It looks like a cave to me, although I also consulted "Breitbart" and they say if an agreement with the democrats doesn't happen in three weeks, Trump will declare a state of emergency. ( then it will be in the courts for a few years)

The planes were going to start falling from the sky, or the TSA would have walked off their jobs, so Trump, had no choice but to re-open the government, and lets hope he doesn't hold government workers hostage again.

Although, I felt the government workers pain, on one hand, but on the other hand, I didn't buy that food bank BS they were pulling. Sure they didn't get paid for one month, but they knew all along their paycheck would still be coming.

If they want to feel real pain, they ought to feel the pain of really getting fired from the job, like I have happened to be a few times in my life. Now that's real pain, not knowing where you next paycheck is coming from.

I'm backing Wilbur Ross, here.



[Edited on 1-25-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

chuckie - 1-25-2019 at 04:52 PM

BornFisher - 1-25-2019 at 08:19 PM

The joy of seeing Hillary beat down by the deplorable Trump eclipses all defeats now or in the future.
Losers, get over 2016 and be thankful your parents chose life.

JZ - 1-25-2019 at 08:48 PM

Hillary was a chit stain. Trump is even worse though.

Anyone cheering on either one is not very smart in my book.

norte - 1-26-2019 at 07:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
David K. Just said, it wasn't a cave, CNN, then he erased his message.

It looks like a cave to me, although I also consulted "Breitbart" and they say if an agreement with the democrats doesn't happen in three weeks, Trump will declare a state of emergency. ( then it will be in the courts for a few years)

The planes were going to start falling from the sky, or the TSA would have walked off their jobs, so Trump, had no choice but to re-open the government, and lets hope he doesn't hold government workers hostage again.

Although, I felt the government workers pain, on one hand, but on the other hand, I didn't buy that food bank BS they were pulling. Sure they didn't get paid for one month, but they knew all along their paycheck would still be coming.

If they want to feel real pain, they ought to feel the pain of really getting fired from the job, like I have happened to be a few times in my life. Now that's real pain, not knowing where you next paycheck is coming from.

I'm backing Wilbur Ross, here.



[Edited on 1-25-2019 by JoeJustJoe]


Not getting a paycheck, especially while working, was no fault of their own. Some do not have the resources you apparently have and live payday to payday. On the other hand, getting fired is your own damm fault.

Timinator - 1-26-2019 at 08:05 AM

In 21 days we'll see if it's a cave. I'm thinking not. Has he ever not got what he wanted? Is he out of options? No. There will be a wall and there should be a wall.

chuckie - 1-26-2019 at 08:27 AM

Kinda early in the morning to be smoking that stuff, wouldn't ya say, timi?

Bajaboy - 1-26-2019 at 09:00 AM

Ann Coulter needs to run for office or stfu!

pacificobob - 1-26-2019 at 09:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BornFisher  
The joy of seeing Hillary beat down by the deplorable Trump eclipses all defeats now or in the future.
Losers, get over 2016 and be thankful your parents chose life.

you must be exhausted from all the winning! I'm sure rodger stone is feeling exhausted as well!

pacificobob - 1-26-2019 at 09:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Ann Coulter needs to run for office or stfu!

i choose the second option.

Barry A. - 1-26-2019 at 09:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
David K. Just said, it wasn't a cave, CNN, then he erased his message.

It looks like a cave to me, although I also consulted "Breitbart" and they say if an agreement with the democrats doesn't happen in three weeks, Trump will declare a state of emergency. ( then it will be in the courts for a few years)

The planes were going to start falling from the sky, or the TSA would have walked off their jobs, so Trump, had no choice but to re-open the government, and lets hope he doesn't hold government workers hostage again.

Although, I felt the government workers pain, on one hand, but on the other hand, I didn't buy that food bank BS they were pulling. Sure they didn't get paid for one month, but they knew all along their paycheck would still be coming.

If they want to feel real pain, they ought to feel the pain of really getting fired from the job, like I have happened to be a few times in my life. Now that's real pain, not knowing where you next paycheck is coming from.

I'm backing Wilbur Ross, here.



[Edited on 1-25-2019 by JoeJustJoe]




JoJo---------Amazing!!! I think this may be the only time I totally agree with you. You are making progress. (-:


JoeJustJoe - 1-26-2019 at 09:43 AM

I'm not sure what you're saying Barry A, because I think this is a total victory for Chuck Schumer, and especially for Nancy Pelosi.

It's a cave, not a wall, and usually when you take people hostage, ( the Federal workers) you usually get some type of ransom, but in this case the hostage takes, received nothing in return.

In three weeks, and beyond, we can be pretty sure, it won't be tried again, because it's a losing position to shut down the Government.

That said, I briefly sided with Wilbur Ross, because I think a few of those federal workers, and TV news, laid it on a little too thick with the bread lines, knowing full well they could have used their credit cards or some other means to get through 30 days without a paycheck........but I was always on their side.

I think once the air traffic controllers at La Guardia, started to delay flights, and a few GOP senators, started to balk, it was all over and Trump, had to cave.

Thank you Nancy Pelosi.


Too soon to order the Bubbly

MrBillM - 1-26-2019 at 10:44 AM

The mentally ill are unpredictable. While obviously not preferred due to its uncertainty in the courts, the Orangeman still has the emergency declaration option available. To maintain his base, he pretty much has to turn to same absent any other options which could be spun into a victory.

amigobaja - 1-27-2019 at 08:38 AM

I'm glad Joe is dancing and celebrating what he calls Chuck and Nancys huge win.

Gerald David killed this month
Sharon David killed this month
Connie Koontz killed this month
Sophia Reaken killed this month
you enjoy the win while their families and our community in Northern Nevada are grieving their deaths at the hand of what you call undocumented American.
Check the Reno news the guy has admitted killing all four.

JoeJustJoe - 1-27-2019 at 09:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by amigobaja  
I'm glad Joe is dancing and celebrating what he calls Chuck and Nancys huge win.

Gerald David killed this month
Sharon David killed this month
Connie Koontz killed this month
Sophia Reaken killed this month
you enjoy the win while their families and our community in Northern Nevada are grieving their deaths at the hand of what you call undocumented American.
Check the Reno news the guy has admitted killing all four.


Amigobaja, I am enjoying Chuck, and Nancy's, huge win, and I'm doing so without any bloods on my hands.

This win is especially enjoyable, because some on the right, like Ann Coulter, has turned on the President, and now admits, she was a very stupid girl, and was taken in by a lying conman. It's also good the Federal workers, will now be paid, and the Gov agency I was dealing will re-open and I could finish my business.

Amigobaja, there are a few things wrong with your theory, that if a wall would have been built, the four victims of a homicide would still be alive today.

For one thing, you're assuming that walls work, they don't. The majority of undocumented aliens to the US, do not cross the border where there is no wall, they simply overstay their visas. Walls, may slow a few undocumented aliens down, and maybe increase the smuggling fees, but they will still come, over, under, and around the wall, as long as there are good paying jobs here in the US. There will also be more attempts at legal ports of entry will bribes paid to dirty US Customs, and dirty border patrol agents, who many washed out or could not get a job with higher paying city police agencies.

There is also the fact that you Amigobaja, through your charge of murder by a undocumented Hispanic alien, that you are indirectly painting all undocumented aliens, as criminals and murderers, with your wide paint brush, and that's just wrong.

The fact is that studies have repeatedly shown that undocumented immigrants actually commit crimes, including violent crimes, at a lower rate than native-born U.S. citizens, and in this case, it may be the work of a serial killer, and we also know most serial killers are white.

Amigobaja, also don't be so quick, to convict Martinez-Guzman, of El Salvador, of murder yet, despite the fact, some newspapers headlines, are claiming he confessed to the crimes. We all know, that cops can lie to suspect, and pull all kinds of dirty tricks on uneducated suspects, including not honoring their Constitutional rights.

The facts as it stands now is Martinez-Guzman had not been charged with murder and so far as only been charged with burglary, possession of stolen property, and several weapons offences. There hasn't even been a trial yet, and Trump, has already convicted this immigrant because it fits his agenda of calling most dark-skinned Latino immigrants as criminals, drug dealers, and murderers.

Face some facts, there isn't going to be any great wall, at least not anytime soon.


[Edited on 1-27-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

Timinator - 1-27-2019 at 09:38 AM

Keep patting yourself on the back. Democrats have so many wins and policies that work? WTF? I don't think so. We got Federal employee's paid, I thought that was real point, no? Did you change the goal again to suit your agenda? Of course you did. In addition, in 21 days, we'll start building the wall with our without you. So, it's a win for Federal workers, and it's a win for We the People. This is only going to illustrate how incompetent Nancy Pelosi is as Speaker and the entire Democrat side of Congress is. Nothing more. Cheers mates.

BajaTed - 1-27-2019 at 10:40 AM

Trump got something with little resistance from the Dems.
As it relates to asylum seekers; Its no longer "catch and release" it's now "catch and return".
Don't kid yourself that Nancy didn't buy off on it. They both hated what was going on with the kids.


Bubba - 1-27-2019 at 10:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Keep patting yourself on the back. Democrats have so many wins and policies that work? WTF? I don't think so. We got Federal employee's paid, I thought that was real point, no? Did you change the goal again to suit your agenda? Of course you did. In addition, in 21 days, we'll start building the wall with our without you. So, it's a win for Federal workers, and it's a win for We the People. This is only going to illustrate how incompetent Nancy Pelosi is as Speaker and the entire Democrat side of Congress is. Nothing more. Cheers mates.


Pelosi is an embarrassment.

DaliDali - 1-27-2019 at 10:58 AM

Liberals got NOTHING from Trump other than a day or so of high fives.

NO DACA....NO TPS....

Trump offered 3 years of protected status...
3 years renewable
3 years protected status for TPS.

It's clear.....the liberals would rather punk Trump than they would protect DACA and TPS people.

All over chump change 4 billion bucks.
Ultra sad wouldn't you say?


JoeJustJoe - 1-27-2019 at 11:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Keep patting yourself on the back. Democrats have so many wins and policies that work? WTF? I don't think so. We got Federal employee's paid, I thought that was real point, no? Did you change the goal again to suit your agenda? Of course you did. In addition, in 21 days, we'll start building the wall with our without you. So, it's a win for Federal workers, and it's a win for We the People. This is only going to illustrate how incompetent Nancy Pelosi is as Speaker and the entire Democrat side of Congress is. Nothing more. Cheers mates.


Timinator, you're fooling yourself if you believe the wall will start to be built in 21 days. Mr Bill, also talked along those same lines that Trump, can still declare a state of emergency and claim some type of victory, but I think even Mr Bill, knows this will be stuck in the federal courts for years, and with no new wall built soon, we will have a new Democrat President, in 2020, and the wall will be all but forgotten.

What Trump, should have did was instead of suffering a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Congresswoman, from San Francisco, when he got nothing in return for shutting down the government for over 30 days. He should have declared his emergency, and re-opened the government.

Now he looks weak and inept, because most everyone who follow politics knows the Democrats, will not give him that wall and give him that win he so desperately needs.

Oh there will be some like DaliDali, claiming it's not political but rather it's an emergency safety issue. Hogwash, it's like Trump told the Mexican President, the wall is the least important thing but politically it's everything.( I don't have his exact quote but I'm sure I'm close)

The wall is just symbolic for the base, and sorry there will be no wall.



[Edited on 1-27-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

Alan - 1-27-2019 at 02:36 PM

The real loser once again is the public. Nancy had a huge opportunity to actually accomplish something but instead chose to throw it away just so she can say FU to Trump. In exchange for a few more miles of wall she could have negotiated a huge win for DACA and shown herself to be a real leader and superb negotiator. Instead she threw away that chance and ends up just looking petty. I think in the end smarter minds will prevail and Trump will get a few more miles of barricades and real progress will get made on DACA but Nancy won't be able to claim credit.

norte - 1-27-2019 at 04:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
The real loser once again is the public. Nancy had a huge opportunity to actually accomplish something but instead chose to throw it away just so she can say FU to Trump. In exchange for a few more miles of wall she could have negotiated a huge win for DACA and shown herself to be a real leader and superb negotiator. Instead she threw away that chance and ends up just looking petty. I think in the end smarter minds will prevail and Trump will get a few more miles of barricades and real progress will get made on DACA but Nancy won't be able to claim credit.


The only DACA offer was a 3 year extension. Hardly a win for anyone except those that want to send those kids home.

DaliDali - 1-27-2019 at 07:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by norte  
Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
The real loser once again is the public. Nancy had a huge opportunity to actually accomplish something but instead chose to throw it away just so she can say FU to Trump. In exchange for a few more miles of wall she could have negotiated a huge win for DACA and shown herself to be a real leader and superb negotiator. Instead she threw away that chance and ends up just looking petty. I think in the end smarter minds will prevail and Trump will get a few more miles of barricades and real progress will get made on DACA but Nancy won't be able to claim credit.


The only DACA offer was a 3 year extension. Hardly a win for anyone except those that want to send those kids home.



3 years with a reup of another 3 if needed.
And TPS people 3 years

Or NO years period .....on the fine deal Pelosi negotiated.
Gawd love her!!
Poking Trump was more important to her than the millions of dreamers........so sad

JoeJustJoe - 1-27-2019 at 08:26 PM

Democrats Dismissed Trump's Gov Shutdown ending, DACA Deal as a Non-Starter," because it was more of the same BS,and he never even included democrats in the negotiations, it was nothing but a Stephen Miller's wet dream.

Obama, already provided for DACA and TPS. It was Trump, who took it away, and now was only offering to give it back partially.

It would be like your neighbor stealing your car, but then coming back and telling your he will lease you your car back to you for three years, on the condition, you provide money for his wall on his property. Screw that!

There is also the fact the federal courts stopped Trump, from deporting the dreamers, and since the supreme court, has not weighted in yet, and the DACA kids probably have protection for another year maybe longer while the case goes through the federal courts.

So why roll the dice with Trump, for only a three year deal when the DACA kids want a more permanent solution and there is also the fact Trump's deal, was only with the existing 700,000 kids. We want other DACA kids to get a deal too.

Trump's DACA plan was such a bad deal that even some of the dreamers, the ACLU, and many others told Pelosi, to say no.

The TPS deal was also very bad, but I'm not going into it right now.

Pelosi, has Trump, where she wants him. She knows, he learned his lesson, and he is unlikely to try to shut down the government again in three weeks.

[Edited on 1-28-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

wessongroup - 1-28-2019 at 03:56 AM

"Stealing a car" .... really :lol::lol:

Now that's a keeper

Timinator - 1-28-2019 at 06:47 AM

Pelosi's favorable rating has dropped 6 percent within her Party since this all started. Trumps has remained steady, and still higher than Obummer's was at this point in his Presidency.

The Wall will be built and it's coming to a border near you. Count on it.

Neither Pelosi and Schumer have met with ANY Border Patrol agents to access their requirements to better do their jobs. Not once.

Every single place along the US border where they've built a wall, it's worked and virtually stopped the flow immigrants over those sections. Especially in San Diego county.

There are no facts or data that support the ability to stop the flow illegal aliens into the US without a wall. None. Drones, and early warning sensors don't keep people out of the country.

Immigration laws need to be changed. Anchor babies, chain migrations, immediate deportation, visa overstays, sanctuary laws, etc., all need to be updated. US citizens don't want waves of uneducated, lawless, illegals coming to our country waiving their country's flags trying to change our country to theirs. Trust me, there are way, way, way, more people who fell like I do than who want open borders or who feel Nancy Pelosi has her finger on the pulse of America.

So, with these laws needing to be changed, is there anybody who thinks a Democrat would tackle these issues? Again, look at every city or state run by Democrats. If any of their policies worked, they'be be running on them and pointing to the them as examples. But it's all a lie, nothing more. The Democrat party and their liberal followers are either on The Dole, in hiding, or are bought and paid for life long Union members. All, at the expense of our country and all the rest of it's citizens. Facts don't lie, Democrats do.

Alan - 1-28-2019 at 07:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by norte  
Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
The real loser once again is the public. Nancy had a huge opportunity to actually accomplish something but instead chose to throw it away just so she can say FU to Trump. In exchange for a few more miles of wall she could have negotiated a huge win for DACA and shown herself to be a real leader and superb negotiator. Instead she threw away that chance and ends up just looking petty. I think in the end smarter minds will prevail and Trump will get a few more miles of barricades and real progress will get made on DACA but Nancy won't be able to claim credit.


The only DACA offer was a 3 year extension. Hardly a win for anyone except those that want to send those kids home.

The 3 yr extension was nothing more than an initial offer. All she had to do was come to the table and as much as Trump wants some barrier it could have been permanent.

I think something close to this will become the final deal because both sides want both items but Nancy lost the chance to be the architect. It will either come out of committee or the Republicans will put it on the floor and enough Democrats will seize the deal.
[Edited on 1-28-2019 by Alan]

[Edited on 1-28-2019 by Alan]

JoeJustJoe - 1-28-2019 at 09:36 AM

Timinator, where do you get your information from? I suspect, it's "Breitbart," because very few things you say are based in reality.

The Trump's Gov shutdown, put Trump's poll numbers into a free fall of lower than 40 percent, and Trump, was blamed for the shutdown almost 2 to 1.

And while Congress usually has an extreme unfavorable rating, either democrat or republican, Pelosi, has come away looking like a queen, who beat Trump, first by taking away his platform of speaking before congress, and then making Trump cave and re-open the government, while getting nothing in return.

Timinator, you are speaking from both sides of your mouth, first you say, walls work where we already have walls. OK, then why do we need more walls? Then where is the emergency that Trump, has to shut down the gov for force a longer wall? Is Trump, really going to close down the Gov again in three weeks, to show that he really is insane?

The rank and file, at the border patrol, has not asked for a wall. They asked for more border agents, and more high tech tools to stop undocumented aliens from coming over and I suspect that not many border patrol, agents supported the Gov shutdown, when they were not being paid.

Have you seen the news lately on Trump's golf courses, recently firing long time undocumented workers, who worked for Trump, for years, some as long as 14 years? They presented Trump, management, with fake documents, and it's obvious, E-Verify, was never used, and Trump, and his management, knew they were undocumented, but looked the other way, until the media found out.

One day some of you are going to wake up and learn Trump, is just playing you for votes.

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Pelosi's favorable rating has dropped 6 percent within her Party since this all started. Trumps has remained steady, and still higher than Obummer's was at this point in his Presidency.

The Wall will be built and it's coming to a border near you. Count on it.

Neither Pelosi and Schumer have met with ANY Border Patrol agents to access their requirements to better do their jobs. Not once.

Every single place along the US border where they've built a wall, it's worked and virtually stopped the flow immigrants over those sections. Especially in San Diego county.

There are no facts or data that support the ability to stop the flow illegal aliens into the US without a wall. None. Drones, and early warning sensors don't keep people out of the country.

Immigration laws need to be changed. Anchor babies, chain migrations, immediate deportation, visa overstays, sanctuary laws, etc., all need to be updated. US citizens don't want waves of uneducated, lawless, illegals coming to our country waiving their country's flags trying to change our country to theirs. Trust me, there are way, way, way, more people who fell like I do than who want open borders or who feel Nancy Pelosi has her finger on the pulse of America.

So, with these laws needing to be changed, is there anybody who thinks a Democrat would tackle these issues? Again, look at every city or state run by Democrats. If any of their policies worked, they'be be running on them and pointing to the them as examples. But it's all a lie, nothing more. The Democrat party and their liberal followers are either on The Dole, in hiding, or are bought and paid for life long Union members. All, at the expense of our country and all the rest of it's citizens. Facts don't lie, Democrats do.

BajaTed - 1-28-2019 at 10:11 AM

Read the Sunday L.A. Times article about the "super wall" in Israel.
They just found six invasion tunnels built by Hezbollah and suspect many more. They dug tunnels at the bottom of a hill with the wall on top and just come out the other side through hidden entrances, real simple.

Alan - 1-28-2019 at 10:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  
Read the Sunday L.A. Times article about the "super wall" in Israel.
They just found six invasion tunnels built by Hezbollah and suspect many more. They dug tunnels at the bottom of a hill with the wall on top and just come out the other side through hidden entrances, real simple.

Nothing is 100%. Are you suggesting that just because someone can break down your door or pick your lock it would be beneficial to remove your door altogether?

Lets be reasonable and honest with each other. Everybody know walls work... to a point. Drive around La Paz. Nearly every single house is surrounded by a wall. But everybody also knows they are just one component of their homes security that must get complemented by locked doors. And even that gets complemented by security cameras, alarms, guards and many other options depending on your budget.

Someone suggested that we check with the rank and file Border Agents. I have listened to their Union Leaders in several interviews and they have requested the additional barriers. In fact their Union Presidents explained that the 5.7B is not some arbitrary number that Trump pulled out of the air but rather is the figure the Border Patrol officers have identified as what THEY needed. It includes barriers, technology and personnel.

caj13 - 1-28-2019 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Liberals got NOTHING from Trump other than a day or so of high fives.

NO DACA....NO TPS....

Trump offered 3 years of protected status...
3 years renewable
3 years protected status for TPS.

It's clear.....the liberals would rather punk Trump than they would protect DACA and TPS people.

All over chump change 4 billion bucks.
Ultra sad wouldn't you say?



You are being disingenuous Dalui. you know damned good and well the Libs wanted that protectiion to be permanent. trump wanted to appear to some as being helpfull to dreamers when instead it was a way around coming up with a permanent solution.

I have no issues with the "wall" as long as Mexico pays for it - as promised. But apparently , that was just anothwer unkept promise? Don't worry though, I'm sure the kickstarter campaign will reach its goal in very short order, so again, if the USA taxpayers are not paying for it -= go right ahead.

You start taking money from the military to build a wall - i have real issues with that!

and By the way, we pay 13.6 million for a hiring firm to find 7500 new agents, and so far they have found 2! so we are paying 7 million per gaent. good thing that firm has a 5 year contract with 300 million, that ought to work out great!https://www.npr.org/2018/12/11/675923576/customs-border-and-protection-paid-a-firm-13-6-million-to-hire-recruits-it-hired

[Edited on 1-28-2019 by caj13]

chuckie - 1-28-2019 at 12:03 PM

"Chapo" Guzman has asked his attorneys to form a Corporation, "Tunnels R Us" to contract passages under any wall, priceing will be flexible and terms can be arranged through Trump Finance Corp...

elgatoloco - 1-28-2019 at 01:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
"Chapo" Guzman has asked his attorneys to form a Corporation, "Tunnels R Us" to contract passages under any wall, priceing will be flexible and terms can be arranged through Trump Finance Corp...


Hurry before Trump Finance declares bankruptcy. :lol:

Art of the deal and all that...........:P

DaliDali - 1-28-2019 at 01:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Liberals got NOTHING from Trump other than a day or so of high fives.

NO DACA....NO TPS....

Trump offered 3 years of protected status...
3 years renewable
3 years protected status for TPS.

It's clear.....the liberals would rather punk Trump than they would protect DACA and TPS people.

All over chump change 4 billion bucks.
Ultra sad wouldn't you say?



You are being disingenuous Dalui. you know damned good and well the Libs wanted that protectiion to be permanent. You start taking money from the military to build a wall - i have real issues with that!


[Edited on 1-28-2019 by caj13]



Neither Pelosi or Schumer put a permanent DACA deal on the table.
What the hell do you expect?....Trump to negotiate with himself?

They NEVER put ANYTHING on the table...
It was NO wall....NO how from the get go.

Duh!!!

JoeJustJoe - 1-28-2019 at 01:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
Nothing is 100%. Are you suggesting that just because someone can break down your door or pick your lock it would be beneficial to remove your door altogether?

Lets be reasonable and honest with each other. Everybody know walls work... to a point. Drive around La Paz. Nearly every single house is surrounded by a wall. But everybody also knows they are just one component of their homes security that must get complemented by locked doors. And even that gets complemented by security cameras, alarms, guards and many other options depending on your budget.

Someone suggested that we check with the rank and file Border Agents. I have listened to their Union Leaders in several interviews and they have requested the additional barriers. In fact their Union Presidents explained that the 5.7B is not some arbitrary number that Trump pulled out of the air but rather is the figure the Border Patrol officers have identified as what THEY needed. It includes barriers, technology and personnel.


No not everybody agrees that walls work, and BTW I don't have a wall at my house, and most people live without walls. It's usually just rich people who live behind wall, and it won't stop a determined person who will just climb over a wall, dig under the wall, or go around a wall.

I also agree with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, who called called the border wall, medieval, and that Trump's border wall, is a 5th century solution to a 21st century problem.

You say, check with the rank and file, yet you quote the border patrol union leaders, and others have quoted the head of the border patrol, and upper management of the border patrol, who toe the company line.

What do you expect them to say? Do you actually think the suits are going to disagree with the boss, Trump?

Now here is an article that polled the rank and file border agents, on the ground, not the ones wearing suits or speaking for the union.

They asked for technology, and more border agent. They also admit, walls do not stop the drugs, because most drugs go right through the port of entrance.....so it's another Trump lie that a wall will stop illegal drugs.
_______________________


What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/us/politics/border-patrol...



[Edited on 1-28-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

DaliDali - 1-28-2019 at 02:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
Nothing is 100%. Are you suggesting that just because someone can break down your door or pick your lock it would be beneficial to remove your door altogether?

Lets be reasonable and honest with each other. Everybody know walls work... to a point. Drive around La Paz. Nearly every single house is surrounded by a wall. But everybody also knows they are just one component of their homes security that must get complemented by locked doors. And even that gets complemented by security cameras, alarms, guards and many other options depending on your budget.

Someone suggested that we check with the rank and file Border Agents. I have listened to their Union Leaders in several interviews and they have requested the additional barriers. In fact their Union Presidents explained that the 5.7B is not some arbitrary number that Trump pulled out of the air but rather is the figure the Border Patrol officers have identified as what THEY needed. It includes barriers, technology and personnel.



What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/us/politics/border-patrol...



[Edited on 1-28-2019 by JoeJustJoe]



Or another view of the same agents...…..

The NBPC’s survey, of more than 600 agents in two of the Border Patrol’s busiest sectors, found just the opposite: A stunning 89 percent of line agents say a “wall system in strategic locations is necessary to securing the border.” Just 7 percent disagreed.--------------------------------------
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/2/border-patro...

JoeJustJoe - 1-28-2019 at 02:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  




Neither Pelosi or Schumer put a permanent DACA deal on the table.
What the hell do you expect?....Trump to negotiate with himself?

They NEVER put ANYTHING on the table...
It was NO wall....NO how from the get go.

Duh!!!


If I recall at that second meeting, Trump, slammed his hands down on the table, turned and walked out, after he demanded money for the wall from Nancy, and Nancy said no.

In the 3rd meeting, which didn't include any democrats, the GOP, and mainly Trump, and Miller, crafted their only solution regarding opening up the GOV, that the democrats called a non-starter.....then the next thing we knew is Trump caved.

So any negotiations were always one-sided, and Trump still lost.

Regarding the what the border patrol agents want. I would never trust anything they would say public, knowing they could be put in the dog house, if they say the wrong words. ( but again, they never said anything about a wall covering the whole southern border)

It's interesting, Trump, was talking about a Wall from sea to sea. ( those are Trump's words not mine) Then instead of a wall, it's only a steal slats, and now instead of wall, or steal slats the whole US border from sea to sea, or the whole southern border

Now the wall Trump wants, is not a concrete wall, but rather a wall of steal slats, and it's only going to be at strategic locations.

What happened? I bet the Chinese are laughing, because the great wall of China, covers pretty much the whole northern border, and not only at strategic locations. Of course in this century, the Chinese would not make another great wall of China.



[Edited on 1-28-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

caj13 - 1-28-2019 at 02:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


Neither Pelosi or Schumer put a permanent DACA deal on the table.
What the hell do you expect?....Trump to negotiate with himself?

They NEVER put ANYTHING on the table...
It was NO wall....NO how from the get go.

Duh!!!


So they said "open the government and then we will talk wall" and that is what they did - why is that an issue. Now the government is open, negotiations are taking place - so whats your issue? Why are we having this discussion? i thought Mexico was paying for the wall - Trump even had a plan: said they Mexican government would "gladly" pay a one time cost of 25 billion. That would save em from tarrifs. and it was cheaper than getting dinged with the tarrifs!

here you go:
An August 2015 campaign position paper said "Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do," the U.S. would "impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages," increase fees on visas and ports of entry into the U.S., and possibly implement tariffs or cut aid.

An April 2016 campaign memo outlined similar ways of pressuring Mexico. That plan explicitly said Mexico would make "a one-time payment of $5 - 10 billion" for the wall.

The memo also proposed threatening to block remittances from Mexican nationals in the U.S. back to Mexico – which the campaign said amounted to $24 billion a year. The plan was to then "tell Mexico that if the Mexican government will contribute the funds needed to the United States to pay for the wall," the rule blocking the money transfers would not be enacted.

"We have the leverage so Mexico will back down," the memo said.

So wheres that deal? why am I paying because Trump failed in his negotiations to build a monument to himself?

Timinator - 1-28-2019 at 02:39 PM

Ha ha ha, try keeping anything worth ANY value in Mexico without a wall/fence or barrier. Walls work. It's a fact from arrest data from Border Patrol agents before and after the wall in San Diego went up. There is no discussing it, it's arrest reports and the data that's been used for the last 50 years.

I don't have a wall around my yard either, but I sure as hell have doors that are locked at night and guns that protect my family. Your argument is juvenile at best. Does your house have 4 walls or just three and one side is left open? Joe, you're a waste of bandwidth and time.

The Wall will be built.

If these 8000 illegal immigrants wanted asylum, they'd just march 1/4 of the distance up to Texas, but they don't. They want into sanctuary California for free chit. Again, it's all a lie.

In case you're not aware, NONE of the cities in Mexico want the 8000 marchers either. They buss them through each city they come to get them out as soon and as quickly as possible. They're not marching they're being bused and dumped on us. Not going to happen. Not talking about the President of Mexico's stand, but the Governors of each State bus them through in record time getting them out.

Trump is doing exactly what we elected him to do and I support that completely. Lawlessness just gets us more crime, more welfare people. Just facts.

chuckie - 1-28-2019 at 05:26 PM

I wonder if "timinator" has ever been to Baja? Guns to protect his family? LOL In Baja?

joerover - 1-28-2019 at 05:56 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeYkBGiVq0A
so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmnMgDEp_R0

[Edited on 1-29-2019 by joerover]