BajaNomad - Closing the Border?

The "border" is the line that separates two countries... Most of our borders are OPEN so anyone can just cross it if they are unconcerned with violating a nation's laws. Closing the open border has nothing to do with existing legal ports of entry into the United States. It does mean installing a physical barrier as far too many people have no problem with breaking the border law and not waiting in line like all our relatives from other countries did.

Did I really need to explain this to you guys?

If it's so easy to cross the border as an undocumented Mexican workers, how come coyotes, charge up to $5000 dollars to sneak someone over the border?

David K. what's Trump, going to do with all that trucker commerce that cross the border daily?

Do you really think Trump, is going to cause multinational corporations lose millions of dollars while the border is closed?

If you really believe this I have bridge I would like to sell you?

If I was a Mexican national without high tech skills, without money in the bank, without contacts in the US,and I heard there are good jobs up north.

I sure would not wait in an unfair line or play immigration lotto, where the game is fixed. Screw that, especially if there are good jobs in the US, and the US companies make it real easy to live in the US and work.

And finally, if I was a Mexican immigrant I would not think it's fair that David K. could come to my country anytime he wants, but I could not come to his country anytime I want.

It's campaign time, and Trump, is getting ready for 2020 by playing to his base and faking a temper tantrum about closing the border.

[Edited on 3-29-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

sancho - 3-29-2019 at 02:18 PM

It encourages me to read posts from BN's that have logic,
empathy, only 1 or 2 in that low info category. Amigo
you are WAY over your ski's, to to arrogantly suggest that any
of us need an explanation from you

[Edited on 3-29-2019 by sancho]

gnukid - 3-29-2019 at 02:43 PM

JJJ are you really serious or trolling again? If you are serious you are clearly ignorant of border cartel control, though it appears you are feigning ignorance to confuse the message.

Cartels in collusion with a variety of corrupt politicians, law enforcement and military "control" and tax all traffic through the region. Coyotes are human traffickers who run exploited people through a system and place a bounty on their head they then are responsible to pay through either cash or servitude.

Many/most people are selected to be tarfficked, they don't willingly choose to be pit in danger and exploitation, abuse and slavery.

The entire border is full of corruption, both in the open areas as well in the controlled points of entry. Everybody pays and a few profit.

Closing the entire order with National Guard and actual lawful enforcement would protect all those men, women and children and end the money train of cartels and their networks. If cartels didn't profit on every trafficked person as well as goods and materials, they would be out of business and endless lives would be saved.

The problem is the money is too good to stop this money flow. Everybody profits off the backs of trafficked humans which is why everyone wants it to continue, JJJ included, who is apparently a mouth piece and promoter for the messaging of cartels.

Banks profits off money laundering, prisons profit off prisoners, police get paid to police criminals, military and federal agencies justify their existence due the need for protection from rampant lawlessness and corruption. CBP, ICE, etc they all profit by justifying both the need and adding corruption on top to grease their profits even more. Agriculture, institutional corporations all profit from down forcing wages with the added pressure from an illegal work force.

Promoting illegal human trafficking as you do, JJJ is direct support for human exploitation, prostitution, drug and arms trafficking, and the result is the destruction of lives. It's absolutely horrifying that you come here to Baja Nomad and promote this abuse using your feigned ignorance and intentional misrepresentation of facts. Based on your behavior it would not be a surprise if you a full time paid schill for corrupt cartels and their networks.

[Edited on 3-29-2019 by gnukid]

John Harper - 3-29-2019 at 02:56 PM

Closing the entire order with National Guard and actual lawful enforcement would protect all those men, women and children and end the money train of cartels and their networks.

What is your plan for achieving this? How much taxpayer money do you propose we spend? How are we going to finance this project? How many more law enforcement careers are we going to create and have long term pension and health obligations? How do you plan to continue maintenance and operations, and how much will it cost taxpayers?

Drugs come across well monitored borders daily. What do you propose we do differently to make sure no drugs come across legal POEs? Please elaborate.

Please, give us a plan with some financing and cost/benefits of your proposal.

We all look forward to a well prepared plan of attack. Are you up to the task?

John

DaliDali - 3-29-2019 at 03:57 PM

I'll be danged.......enforcing the law is somehow racist.

Damn that Obama......full on RACIST for being the "deporter in chief"

gnukid - 3-29-2019 at 04:21 PM

Identifying a problem does not obligate one to solve it. Moreover, a lack of clear solutions does not negate the obvious problem. To argue that one must solve a problem in order to identify it is a logical fallacy.

Clearly the cost to all from corruption and human trafficking is immense that affects everyone, the costs are added to every item that is transported and the labor as well.

In the US as you are likely aware, 40% of every dollar goes to funding the government institutions that exist to "protect" us while in fact they are integral to the corruption problem.

The profits are too great for institutions to stop corruption or self govern.

When we do reduce corruption, such as our support for human trafficking and all it entails both Mexico and USA would be vastly more wealthy, each citizen would benefit from reduced costs and increased profits, everyone would have more opportunity and lower barriors to succeed. Cartels would not have an endless money flow to afford to further fund their networks to traffic synthetic drugs and all of their exotic interests.

A simple analysis shows that as communities of lawful citizens we can not expect anyone but ourselves to advocate for and develop safe thriving communities without corruption.

We can not accept excuses such as the costs are too high to be lawful, or we can't afford to live free of corruption, while the truth is we can not afford not to live free f corruption and we can not expect anyone but ourselves to ensure our communities are lawful.

Be aware there are sophisticated arguments by social agents whose full time role is to confuse the facts and disrupt community collective and independent action. Keep in mind we are paying for these agents and the corruption to create disruption on our lives in the form of taxes and hidden costs.

Ask yourself who pays the cartels, its you and me. The moment you stop paying them and stop supporting the systems. they use against us they are done.

First step is stop all trafficking at the border using the resources we already paid for, National Guard and Military. Use tools and resources we have available, radar, heat maps, satellites, and both federal and state forces with community oversight.

We have sophisticated technology available to us and we are not using it, while instead we send mass resources to other locations in the word while we are allowing this chaos at our doorstep that hurts everyone of us, why allow it continue even one more day. Even if you felt you weren't harmed can you empathize with those who are harmed, can we save 1 life at a time.

The truth is far more horrific than anyone one of us want to know or imagine, but the truth is annually is there is a long list of victims, in the millions, men, women and children who are being harmed as a derivative result of the lack of secure border between USA and Mexico, and many do not escape, many of us harmed, many die in the process, many are murdered, all for profit. It's basic good vs evil, which side are you on?

[Edited on 3-29-2019 by gnukid]

norte - 3-29-2019 at 04:37 PM

What needs to be explained is that DT (hmmm kinda like DK) is talking about shtting down poe's and commerce. Quit tqaking this off-topic DonaldK

gnukid - 3-29-2019 at 04:42 PM

What really irks me is that this problem is easily solved, even by a group a children, the Boys and Girl Scouts of America and Mexico could easily develop a plan for surveillance and reporting all along the border using modern solar powered IOT devices in a virtual network that could provide 24/7 data and identify those involved with signature imagery, from the actual people to the products being trafficked and the entire corrupt system could be shutdown in one day, we simply have to decide to do it.

There are solar powered mini HD cameras that send and transmit data 24/7 including programmable flags /email/sms, night vision microphone and speaker and built in cell that have a computer and software that can identify common recurring objects and people and flag them. down to body movement, each person has a biophysio signature the camera can identify every time. I bought some of these "silly toys" for under $100 each and connected them and what I saw was the most frightening thing I could imagine, mass collusion with institutions working together by threat or willingly to traffic, 24/7, same people all interconnected all profiting off our backs and hurting us for their profit.

Worse many of those who profit don't even do any work, they simply charge a tax by using this same technology to be aware of movement. Meaning every liter of gas, water, Kw of power, every illegal alien person is taxed regardless of how it crosses the border through a form of intimidation, just like Mafia in Vegas or any port, New York, Jersey, Etc. Everybody pays because we allow the system to continue, and many people buy into and chorus the arguments to support their own demise, as you see here like JJJ, why?

The truth is that corruption requires corruption, thieves need a network of thieves, police need criminals, military needs missions, and cartels need trafficking but they don't need to be sophisticated at every point, they need chaos, messed up systems, people getting caught, fringe people who are barely connected to serve to fuel the system. Cartels use children sicarios who earn anywhere from $5-50 dollars to kill and if they refuse to do it they are killed. Sadly, I know many people who have died. I hear the high power weapons at night in Mexico, you know the ones provided to Mexican Cartels by USA White House official programs Fast and Furious and Gun Walking under Obama/Holder that just got "out of control" right? You remember right? The USA Attorney General resigned because of being unwilling to answer questions about it?

How about Iran/Contra, "I didn't know", these are not one time programs, it continues. Our people die at the hands of weapons we provide to Cartels, its all connected and its global and we pay for it and it hurts everyone of us, and we all turn a blind eye, some, like JJJ, promote the corrupt system through attacks and hyperbole that is tiring to dismantle. We lose energy to fight him and the issues and allow it to continue.

Should we allow or not allow rapid high power 40 caliber fire around the block to kill two kids you know, your friends, for refusing to follow the orders of a cartel. Should we allow human trafficking of young woman and children into sexual slavery since it seems hard to stop it?

There is an old saying that applies here, the massive trafficking across our border is not being done by a guy named Jose in a van, its done by institutions in mass cooperation in a highly organized network of people, activities, vehicles, boats, planes, and touches every one of us. To suggest that it is occult is to be blind to the world in front of you, let's open our eyes and start being honest with ourselves, it starts with a simple conversation and moves to action.

All we have to do is stop it and it starts with one action- one day, it starts with a lawful border and the "cartel network" goes out of business.

[Edited on 3-30-2019 by gnukid]

gnukid - 3-29-2019 at 04:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by norte

What needs to be explained is that DT (hmmm kinda like DK) is talking about shtting down poe's and commerce. Quit tqaking this off-topic DonaldK

Absolutely not, this is wrong, simply put, there will be order on the border enforced and it be slow going at first, like moving through an airport.

azucena - 3-29-2019 at 05:13 PM

Until the causes of mass migrations are addressed the problem will remain.
If we spend mass amounts to seal the border , the humanitarian suffering will continue and increase for our southern neighbors, do we want that?
Or maybe money is better spent to address the root causes : poverty, insecurity, and hopelessnes and use our resources to help our neighbors become more productive?
Americans sure love to complain, but seem to be blind to how much better off we are than most of the world.

People using their minds and hearts can accomplish a great deal, instead of building walls that both physically and metaphorically create isolation and conflict?
No disagreement that the US cannot continue to absorb masses, and I am as anti Trump as they come. But if we can create a situation that mitigates the need for asyulm, then we treat the cause, not the symptom.
And if we look at history, what man made wall has not come tumbling down?

gnukid - 3-29-2019 at 05:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by azucena

Until the causes of mass migrations are addressed the problem will remain... tumbling down?

Causes of mass migration? You mean institutional support for global repopulation to dismantle strong communities based on common beliefs and values and foment chaos and destabilization all for control and profit?

azucena - 3-29-2019 at 05:32 PM

Seriously dude? These communities in Central America are not stable or flourishing! But hey, you want to support a wall that will cost us forever and accomplish nothing, that is your opinion. I would like to look at more lasting and intellegent solutions. PS: The US has been responsible for destabilization in Centro America for years upon years by corporate and military abuse. I highly suggest you take a visit there to SEE what life there looks like.
I have, and it is very sad.

caj13 - 3-29-2019 at 05:33 PM

yes please, could you explain the USA law on people coming from other countries and requesting amnesty? Because if we are a nation of laws, we surely should be following that law - correct?

caj13 - 3-29-2019 at 05:40 PM

Some of you have still not figured Trump out!

If he was thinking the legal border points of entry and not just the invisible line in the desert, then that is a classic example of his deal-making skill. Have you forgotten that he threatened to blow up North Korea if Kim didn't behave? Now they are buddies! LOL Trump still walked away from the last meeting because the deal was bad for America instead of paying billions in cash to hope he will do we want like previous administrations did, and failed to get a deal honored, but bragged about their actions!

Great, so no more nuclear threat from North korea? and they are dismantling their nuclear program? Boy thats a relief, I guess the USA intellegence services must be making up fake news! They sure had me fooled!

And now, if the deal maker Primo could please cut the deal with Mexico to pay for the wall - I'm all for it! surely if he can deal his way toward ending nuclear threats it ought to be a simple task to get Mexico to throw in a few billion - n o?

David K - 3-29-2019 at 05:47 PM

Yes, you request amnesty at our embassy in your own country and then get processed.

Thousands and thousands of people who want a boost in their income is not political persecution. Leaving one's country instead of making it better does not seem to be the same thing as an individual seeking amnesty for very special and unique reasons.

All these 'bad' countries will run out of people if they leave. Doesn't it make more sense that these countries should adopt the American free-market ideas and capitalism so they will also grow and thrive?

azucena - 3-29-2019 at 05:47 PM

PS Kim Jung is playing Trump just like NK has played for years. Have we already forgot about Otto W? If Obama tried to negotiate with Kim you would be having heart attacks. Cmon now, NK is cunning and dangerous. KJ is seriously deranged. Nk has has nuclear capacity.
NK makes Centro America look tame

norte - 3-29-2019 at 05:59 PM

Common...His threat to shut down commerce and POEs is nothing more than to punish Mexico by disrupting their economy. That is how Trump works...be vindictive and strike first and hard.

azucena - 3-29-2019 at 06:19 PM

And in the end, accomplish nothing

gnukid - 3-29-2019 at 07:08 PM

Solutions to improve communities starts at home, with education, skills, respect for laws, enforcement, clean water and infrastructure. Moving people across the earth to another country with a different culture, language, and tradition is not a solution.

For example, Mexico is a resource rich country with beautiful land and history that is among the most rich in resources and history in the world. Moving people out of Mexico is not a solution to solve problems?

Mexico suffers from oppression and corruption, poor education and lack of clean drinking water. These issues can be resolved by focusing on communities in Mexico not by forcing people into a 5000 mile trek to be displaced, abused and exploited by human traffickers, absurd.

Moreover, USA is suffering and needs to focus on its on issues, homelessness is an epidemic in California, not to mention the cost of living. Repopulating central Americans to California is not going to help California or Central America, it exacerbates the issue.

Its hard to tell what your motivations are or what you're promoting? Chaos and corruption for the benefit of who? All I am asking you to is be compassionate for those who are suffering from the ill effect of open border and the criminal corruption associated with it, which includes any of us as well as those being exploited, that needs to end and it starts with respecting laws and communities, not promoting more chaos and displacement to further destabilization of families, communities and traditions of culture.

Until we can establish a lawful, secure and safe community here in the USA, and identify housing and infrastructure which we do not have we should be not promoting more chaos and destabilization.

[Edited on 3-30-2019 by gnukid]

John Harper - 3-29-2019 at 07:23 PM

Until we can establish a lawful, secure and safe community here in the USA, and identify housing and infrastructure which we do not have we should be not promoting more chaos and destabilization.

Sounds like a lot of money to me. Have you noticed the government is running a near record annual deficit? During a growing economy? On top of our already growing national debt? What about that annual debt ceiling fight? Does anyone care about that anymore?

Where's the money coming from? How are we paying for new infrastructure, schools, etc?

Mexico suffers from extreme wealth inequality as a primary problem.

John

[Edited on 3-30-2019 by John Harper]

Paco Facullo - 3-29-2019 at 07:29 PM

Holy Moly,

The worst thing that would occur If they close the boarder would be the lack of avocados for Guacamole !!

David K - 3-29-2019 at 09:48 PM

A reminder: San Diego North County (Fallbrook especially) is the avocado capital of America.

Just checked on Wikipedia to confirm:

Cultivation in California

The avocado was introduced from Mexico to California in the 19th century, and has become a successful cash crop. About 59,000 acres (240 km2) – some 95% of United States avocado production – is located in Southern California, with 60% in San Diego County. Fallbrook, California, claims the title of "Avocado Capital of the World" (also claimed by the town of Uruapan in Mexico), and both Fallbrook and Carpinteria, California, host annual avocado festivals. Avocado is the official fruit of the State of California.

caj13 - 3-30-2019 at 07:59 AM

David,
we have talked about you being disingenuous in the past.
You know damned well what the law is,

you clearly don't like it,

so you ignore it, try and wordsmith around it,
and hope people don't notice your inconsistancy!

so lets back up and try it again David. When someone presents themselves at a border crossing into the USA, and requests asylum, what - By law David - By law! - Is the procedure!

Once again David, you are not asked, nor are you qualified, nor informed enough to make any judgement about their request for amnesty - we have professionals trained to do that job.

We are just trying to affirm that you know the actual laws that you spout on and on about!

Yes, you request amnesty at our embassy in your own country and then get processed.

Thousands and thousands of people who want a boost in their income is not political persecution. Leaving one's country instead of making it better does not seem to be the same thing as an individual seeking amnesty for very special and unique reasons.

All these 'bad' countries will run out of people if they leave. Doesn't it make more sense that these countries should adopt the American free-market ideas and capitalism so they will also grow and thrive?

[Edited on 3-30-2019 by caj13]

JoeJustJoe - 3-30-2019 at 10:31 AM

I have never seen so much hyperbole, BS, and conspiracy theories to hide your bigotry against Hispanic immigrants as I see coming from you Gnukid.

You Gunkid, may be a little bit more educated than the average Trump, voted that feeds off racist red meat issues of building the wall and keeping out the Mexicans, Central Americans, and Muslims,but at least those from rural red state cities are more honest than you Gunkid.

Here is what your scared of Gunkid, as Laura Ingraham, openly promotes xenophobia on "Fox News," nightly.

Laura Ingraham: Says Western Civilization Is ‘Tipping Over The Cliff’ ( replace Western with "white" )

Gunkid, you feel threatened that Christian white America, is disappearing. Am I right? ( this is what Trump, is feeding)

And what's with you and the Mexican cartels, you see them everywhere?

You think JoeJustJoe, works for the Mexican cartels!

Get rid of your tin hat Gunkid, and go back to original post in this thread, which was responding to David K, where he said something inaccurate, or not based in reality from the Hispanic immigrants point of view.

David K, said, basically said the border is porous, and if Mexican wanted to, they could just walk over the border to the US side, and then he said, like other right-wingers, that if the immigrants want to come to the US, they need to get in line.

I was responding from the Mexican immigrants point of view, and said, if the border is so porous, and open then why do undocumented Mexicans, pay up to $5000 dollars to get to the US? ( meaning there is no emergency for building the wall and it's not easy to sneak across the border)

I'm also stating a fact, that the US immigration system does not play on a level playing field, and it not fair to all immigrants. So it's understandably why some immigrants won't be played for suckers, and stand in line like David K, and many here advocate.

Gunkid, you really make me laugh with this statement:

Gunkid: "Closing the entire order with National Guard and actual lawful enforcement would protect all those men, women and children and end the money train of cartels and their networks."

Yeah, right Gunkid, you are acting in the best interest of those immigrants, who are all forced to come to America, and be trafficked and forced to work in factories, meat plants, against their will and/or to become sex slaves.

That's also overblown, because the vast majority if immigrants papers or no papers, come here to work, because they could make a lot more money in the US than their home countries, although some US employers will take advantage, but I don't here you Gunkid, advocating locking up white American bosses, do I?

Take for example, Robert Kraft, the owner of the Patriots, who was busted in Florida, in that massage parlor, sex-sting videos. Kraft, is being accused of abusing a trafficked sex slave, but there is no evidence of that, and it's just a waste of taxpayers money because an old man wanted a happy ending, and you also didn't hear any complaints coming from the women immigrant employees, but this is how cops in Florida, like to get off.

[Edited on 3-30-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

Marc - 3-30-2019 at 11:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Paco Facullo

Holy Moly,

The worst thing that would occur If they close the boarder would be the lack of avocados for Guacamole !!

What he said.

blackwolfmt - 3-30-2019 at 11:46 AM

dont forget Mango's,,, been gettin some real nice ones lately

Quote: Originally posted by Paco Facullo

Holy Moly,

The worst thing that would occur If they close the boarder would be the lack of avocados for Guacamole !!

Alm - 3-30-2019 at 07:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

When someone presents themselves at a border crossing into the USA, and requests asylum, what - By law David - By law! - Is the procedure!

Not being American, I can only talk about similar situations at Canadian border. The procedure is to give a person a "fair hearing" with legal aid lawyer, kind of a hybrid of lottery and real thing. This takes several months to few years, meanwhile they are given welfare, Medicare, work permits and subsidized housing - when there is already a shortage of all this.

The govt have lists of "dangerous" countries whose nationals have a better chance to win than others, but mostly it's a lottery. Plus, political image. The result is - dozens thousands of recent Syrian refugees, many of them are liars and come with big money, many are criminals by profession or simply by culture - this is a 3rd world country, totally different mentality, standards of integrity, - everything. Many of them still don't speak English after 3 years.

I would think that govt stupidity is not uncommon in the US INS system either, but from what I hear, INS make it much more difficult for illegal seekers of a better life. Otherwise illegals wouldn't be crossing from the US to Canada in numbers. Country needs to defend itself - Canada doesn't do this.

I don't want to comment on Trump. Have made my conclusions about this person while he was still selling low-quality TV shows, occasionally giving interviews.

[Edited on 3-31-2019 by Alm]

BajaTed - 3-30-2019 at 08:12 PM

BajaMama - 3-31-2019 at 08:16 AM

Not only is Trump, racist, but he is also a compulsive liar.

I would not believe anything coming from Trump's mouth.

LOL, I DO NOT believe anything the idiot in the white house says. He is the fake president who cried wolf.

BajaMama - 3-31-2019 at 08:26 AM

Illegal border crossings are at an all time low. It is not a national emergency. trumpet just happens to be a racist and thinks immigrants of a different color do not contribute. I believe he is absolutely wrong. Ya'll can have your own opinion. I know I will never change a bigot's mind. So all of you trying to make your point and change minds, you're wasting space here. Let's stick to pictures of sunrises and sunsets, big fish, advice on where to sleep in Baja and whether or not dogs are allowed.

caj13 - 3-31-2019 at 12:08 PM

David - Exactly what I expected from you , deflect and try and redirect. I know the law - unfortunately for you - So Do YOU! But since it is counter to your arguements and pontificatiojns, you deliberately try and ignore it, and hope you can make everybody "look over there"

There is a rule of law, it is very clear, and it is not being followed. Period - end of story - sorry Amigo - Laws! and it's to bad for you those laws don't make exceptions for brown people - because thats what this is all about - and you know it David.
Which side of history are you going to stand on David?

And you lack of understanding of economics, and economic History, is breathtaking to say the least! It must be exhausting trying to come up with the constant mental gymnastics required to ignore fact and cherry pick enough info to try and build any sort of weak support for your personal agenda!

and how about we be realistic and accurate - lets say we go back 10 yeARS, INSTEAD OF THIS MAGICAL 8 - or 15 years. Now rerun those statistics - who created the most jobs? who created the most economic growth? BTW - He's black - and I know that doesnt sit well with many here!

Davids contribution:
At some point, you must see that Trump is not like any other politician (because he isn't one) or cares about being PC (because he isn't). Trump, in his brash style, has been effective at repairing 8 years of damage done to the American economy.

actually David - see here is where you lack perspective - the "Damage" to the USA economy was not the last 8 years - But you knew that right? But that doesn't fit with your narative - right, so you need to deflect and obscure!

and please get out your little blue pocket constitution I'm sure you carry with you all the time. It appears as if you may not have read part of that properly!
Can you go re-read specifically : article 1 - section 8 clause 1, and section 9 clause 7.

so then tell me again how the "president" spent all that money? - And you might want to keep those sections handy, it might serve you well when it comes to court cases about the so called emergency!

Davids contribution:
We had the highest number of people on food stamps, scary high unemployment and a stagnant economy that couldn't get above 2% growth in any of the previous 8 years. That last president also spent more of our money than all the presidents back to George Washington, combined! For what? He believed that government and socialism was the answer.

and the deficit right? highest ever - oops, oops - we need to ignore that fact! because it turns out we have a new record deficit - don't we David!

Davids contribution:
So, the United States elected Trump as the only one strong enough to turn America around to make prosperity a good thing again.

Mr trump won the electorial college. When it comes to the people of the USA - they voted for Clinton David - but you knew that - right - Mr trump had 3 million less popular votes. There is a reason Trump came out last week so strongly against one person one vote ! 184 of the 270 electorial votes needed are now committed to the national popular vote interstate compact. That scares thre hell out of repub right wingers.

Theres a republican conservative ideology if i ever heard one - every person who is qualified to vote - their vote counts exactly the same as any other persons vote! You can get behind that - right David.
You don't think brown and black peoples votes should count any less that yours - right?

heres a number that might not fit your rosey economic view David - try on 9.1 trillion! Hows that go down? thats the increase in the budget deficit under trumps budgets. i assume you guys will crowd fund that away right -

and speaking of that, i do admire Trump for his economically advantagous plan to force Mexico to pay for the wall ! I'm all for that = how that coming along? and have you donated to the crowd funding of the Wall David - seems like you ought to do your patriotic duty and support that with every spare dollar!

Davids contribution:
There is a reason why we now have You may not like the person, but you got to love the results. The lowest unemployment rate in history for most.. after just 2 years and after 2 years of being condemned as having Russian involvement by the left and fake news, and now proven totally false. Who did work with the Russians during the election (and before, selling uranium)? Hillary! LOL!!![/rquote]

so lets see
Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team indicted or got guilty pleas from 34 people and three companies during their lengthy investigation, which is now complete.

That group is composed of six former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Seven of these people (including five of the six former Trump advisers) have pleaded guilty.

yeah - complete fake news!

and how about we actually wait for the Mueller report to be released. I would rather read the 300 pages for myself, instead of a 4 page summary by a designated partisan!

and at what point will you admit what has been proven long ago - this whole Uranium deal was a conspiracy theory dealt by right wing bloggers and geniuses like the self admitted psycotic Jones. but if thats all you have, I guess you need to roll it out again, ignore facts , and get back into your echo chambers.

david, I feel bad for you. No matter what you think, the data , facts, numbers, history - it's all stacking up against you. That has to make it really hard to remain willfully Ignorant!
In your case, I do not think you are willfully ignorant, but i do know you are actively ignoring anything that threatens your personal and political beliefs.
here's a hint David, if you let facts and information actually inform and shape your views , beliefs abnd opinions, it is alot easier ! you can defend your ideology based on those facts and information, instead of having to work so very hard to come up with such completely obvious willfully inadaquite "reasons" for your beliefs.

and just to be clear David, I have never voted for a Clinton in my life, and I did vote for Reagan. so that kind of screws up your demonization tool - right?

[Edited on 3-31-2019 by caj13]

Lee - 3-31-2019 at 01:32 PM

So, the United States elected Trump as the only one strong enough to turn America around to make prosperity a good thing again. You may not like the person, but you got to love the results. The lowest unemployment rate in history for most.. after just 2 years and after 2 years of being condemned as having Russian involvement by the left and fake news, and now proven totally false. Who did work with the Russians during the election (and before, selling uranium)? Hillary! LOL!!!

Wow. How one person could be so mislead is astonishing! Sure glad I'm on the sidelines, with my popcorn, watching the old USA going down the crapper. Popcorn on me, folks.

On topic: shut down the border. No one in or out.

MAGA. Morrons are Governing America.

JoeJustJoe - 3-31-2019 at 02:31 PM

We could talk about lots of issues here, the economy, immigration, racism, and a whole host of other related issues.

But I'm going to talk about only a few main issues since it fits the parameters of "Baja Nomad" and it's about Baja, since Trump, has supposedly thrown down the gauntlet, and has said, if Mexico, doesn't solidify its southern border, and if the central American countries don't do more to prevent their citizens from entering Mexico, that Trump, claims he is going to close the border, and in fact Trump, has doubled down on his threats to closed the US/Mexico border.

Two questions:

1. Who believes AMLO, and the leaders in central America, are shaking in their boots, and will immediate act and follow orders from Trump?

2. Who believes that Trump, will carry through with his threats, and double down, on those threats to close the border?
______________________

I say, AMLO and other central American countries, are laughing at Trump, and would fly him the bird with his empty threats.

I also say, Trump, does not have the cojones to shut down the border, and that he is nothing but a blowhard.

fishbuck - 3-31-2019 at 02:33 PM

On topic.
There is another gigantic caravan headed for the border.
Where did the last one go?
Did they all end up with you Lee.
It only works right if Mexico closes it's southern border.
Funny how none of the caravaners want to live in Mexico.

sancho - 3-31-2019 at 02:58 PM

MAGA. Morrons are Governing America.

There is one quote of his I totally agree with, after he won the
Nevada primary, was a true honest phrase 'I love the poorly
educated', as in they voted for him. Have you ever seen the
supporters behind him at his High School rallies? A culture war?
How can anyone enlist in that group?

fishbuck - 3-31-2019 at 03:07 PM

I love the poorly educated.

norte - 3-31-2019 at 03:40 PM

On topic.
There is another gigantic caravan headed for the border.
Where did the last one go?
Did they all end up with you Lee.
It only works right if Mexico closes it's southern border.
Funny how none of the caravaners want to live in Mexico.

Actually, many did settle in Mexico as they made their way North.

fishbuck - 3-31-2019 at 04:00 PM

Very nice..
And are they happy... heathy... working hard to make a better life...
Because that is my prayer to God.

Ken Cooke - 3-31-2019 at 04:06 PM

does mean installing a physical barrier as far too many people have no problem with breaking the border law and not waiting in line like all our relatives from other countries did.

Did I really need to explain this to you guys?

[Edited on 3-29-2019 by David K]

Most people don't care for carving up the Rio Grande area, as it will make large swaths of land off limits David. Many of my family members did not wait in line, either. Many were here before the Europeans and most were brought here as free slave laborers.

bajabuddha - 3-31-2019 at 04:12 PM

Border closing is nothing more than liddle Donny throwing a trumper tantrum. (new Funk & Wagnall's entry)

fishbuck - 3-31-2019 at 11:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

Border closing is nothing more than liddle Donny throwing a trumper tantrum. (new Funk & Wagnall's entry)

How can I keep voting for Mr.President TRUMP if you keep educating me like this...?
But again... funny :coolup:

David K - 4-1-2019 at 07:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Carving up? Before the 1500s? I think the reality is far different now. It's about playing by the rules as others have. Ignoring safety and security for Americans by voiding border laws to get votes is pretty low.

BajaTed - 4-1-2019 at 08:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

MAGA. Morrons are Governing America.

Its all about ATTITUDE and GRATITUDE
His attitude toward the historically left leaning media is soothing to his base after the decades of being pummeled as republicans.
The gratitude his base has for getting the supreme court justice.
Its nothing more than this for what still is the silent majority across the country.
The world economy is cause & effect, its too big to even figure out much less influence it.

paranewbi - 4-1-2019 at 08:41 AM

We could talk about lots of issues here, the economy, immigration, racism, and a whole host of other related issues.

But I'm going to talk about only a few main issues since it fits the parameters of "Baja Nomad" and it's about Baja, since Trump, has supposedly thrown down the gauntlet, and has said, if Mexico, doesn't solidify its southern border, and if the central American countries don't do more to prevent their citizens from entering Mexico, that Trump, claims he is going to close the border, and in fact Trump, has doubled down on his threats to closed the US/Mexico border.

Two questions:

1. Who believes AMLO, and the leaders in central America, are shaking in their boots, and will immediate act and follow orders from Trump?

2. Who believes that Trump, will carry through with his threats, and double down, on those threats to close the border?
______________________

I say, AMLO and other central American countries, are laughing at Trump, and would fly him the bird with his empty threats.

I also say, Trump, does not have the cojones to shut down the border, and that he is nothing but a blowhard.

Why wouldn't they laugh? A great portion of Mexico's economy is born on the money sent back home by those who left. It's a great model for those other Central American countries that are counting on a million or so more every year, of their expats, sending them that some cash to flood their economies.
Conversely, the rerouting of US cash from our economy takes away the advantage of creating commerce and jobs in our communities.
What would be interesting JJJ, is to observe the cash that leaves the US to Mex and CA juxtaposed to the loss created by closing the border for a few days...to both the US and our neighbors to the south.

BajaMama - 4-2-2019 at 10:03 AM

I am as far from a trumpet fan as you can get (and that sentiment goes back decades - he has never been an acceptable human being as far as I'm concerned).

Has anyone noticed that the border was not an emergency or a crisis until trumpet needed a hateful slogan to motivate his "base" at campaign rallies? You know, the idiotic "build a wall, Mexico pays for it" slogan. (I hope all you trumpet supporters know he NEVER intended to do this, and like the "lock her up" mantra, has no meaning or basis in reality - was only a line to stir up the masses). Now that the ding dong was actually elected (thank you Russian propaganda and the red state under-educated who actually thought it was real) he has no choice but to propagate his hateful messages (of not just Mexico, but pretty much any one who isn't a white nationalist or dictator).

[Edited on 4-2-2019 by BajaMama]

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 10:20 AM

If a second massive caravan crossing 1000s of miles of Mexico for the intent purpose of invading the United States of America with the intent to steel from us isn't a crisis or an emergency... what is?

motoged - 4-2-2019 at 10:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

Border closing is nothing more than liddle Donny throwing a trumper tantrum. (new Funk & Wagnall's entry)

How can I keep voting for Mr.President TRUMP if you keep educating me like this...?
But again... funny :coolup:

Fish#uck,
Just stay as uneducated as you are and it won't be a problem....

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 10:41 AM

Ignorance is bliss Ged... you should know that... but you don't.

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 10:43 AM

You seem to be blissfully ignorant about this massive invasion caravan forming at this moment...

JoeJustJoe - 4-2-2019 at 10:43 AM

[/rquote] Why wouldn't they laugh? A great portion of Mexico's economy is born on the money sent back home by those who left. It's a great model for those other Central American countries that are counting on a million or so more every year, of their expats, sending them that some cash to flood their economies.
Conversely, the rerouting of US cash from our economy takes away the advantage of creating commerce and jobs in our communities.
What would be interesting JJJ, is to observe the cash that leaves the US to Mex and CA juxtaposed to the loss created by closing the border for a few days...to both the US and our neighbors to the south.

Paranewbi, I'm not sure where you going with your post above, but if I recall Trump, threatened to stop remittance from the US to Mexico, or somehow use some kind of remittance tax to get Mexico to pay for the wall during his 2018 Presidential campaign, but as usual Trump, didn't live up to any of his campaign promises regarding the big beautiful wall.

So now Trump, comes up with the dumbest idea of them all: he wants to close the border, and it's all mostly because he is having a temper tantrum. He also wants to feed red meat to his base.

Sure taking money from US coffers and giving to Latin American countries instead of spending it here in the US, sure doesn't help poor cities in the US, but you could say the same thing about the US giving $3 or $4 billion dollar Israel, which largely uses the money for military purposes.

What the Latin American countries get in aid, pales in comparison to what Israel gets, but I bet you won't complain about that Paranewbi?

JoeJustJoe - 4-2-2019 at 10:49 AM

If a second massive caravan crossing 1000s of miles of Mexico for the intent purpose of invading the United States of America with the intent to steel from us isn't a crisis or an emergency... what is?

Stealing? Invading?

I think Fishbuck, is getting ready to go on one of his rants.

motoged - 4-2-2019 at 10:50 AM

Ignorance is bliss Ged... you should know that... but you don't.

You are the guy supporting under-education....and have no clue what my level of awareness is.....just keep on blathering about your flying fantasies and the other unfulfilled daydreams....and your norm will be maintained.... :rolleyes:

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 10:53 AM

Nice Joe. Accurate
Any nothing wrong with Mr.President Trump engaging in politics and confusing the cr*p out of our enimies and frenimies.
And nothing more fun that watching the dims twist and writh so...
Very satisfying...

[Edited on 4-2-2019 by fishbuck]

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 10:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Ignorance is bliss Ged... you should know that... but you don't.

Why are you attacking me dumbf*ck.
Or let's take this to the parking lot and I will show you just how uneducated I can be...
Stop the personal attack now!

chuckie - 4-2-2019 at 01:07 PM

OH! You guys!

Brian L - 4-2-2019 at 02:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

David - Exactly what I expected from you , deflect and try and redirect. I know the law - unfortunately for you - So Do YOU! But since it is counter to your arguements and pontificatiojns, you deliberately try and ignore it, and hope you can make everybody "look over there"

There is a rule of law, it is very clear, and it is not being followed. Period - end of story - sorry Amigo - Laws! and it's to bad for you those laws don't make exceptions for brown people - because thats what this is all about - and you know it David.
Which side of history are you going to stand on David?

And you lack of understanding of economics, and economic History, is breathtaking to say the least! It must be exhausting trying to come up with the constant mental gymnastics required to ignore fact and cherry pick enough info to try and build any sort of weak support for your personal agenda!

and how about we be realistic and accurate - lets say we go back 10 yeARS, INSTEAD OF THIS MAGICAL 8 - or 15 years. Now rerun those statistics - who created the most jobs? who created the most economic growth? BTW - He's black - and I know that doesnt sit well with many here!

Davids contribution:
At some point, you must see that Trump is not like any other politician (because he isn't one) or cares about being PC (because he isn't). Trump, in his brash style, has been effective at repairing 8 years of damage done to the American economy.

actually David - see here is where you lack perspective - the "Damage" to the USA economy was not the last 8 years - But you knew that right? But that doesn't fit with your narative - right, so you need to deflect and obscure!

and please get out your little blue pocket constitution I'm sure you carry with you all the time. It appears as if you may not have read part of that properly!
Can you go re-read specifically : article 1 - section 8 clause 1, and section 9 clause 7.

so then tell me again how the "president" spent all that money? - And you might want to keep those sections handy, it might serve you well when it comes to court cases about the so called emergency!

Davids contribution:
We had the highest number of people on food stamps, scary high unemployment and a stagnant economy that couldn't get above 2% growth in any of the previous 8 years. That last president also spent more of our money than all the presidents back to George Washington, combined! For what? He believed that government and socialism was the answer.

and the deficit right? highest ever - oops, oops - we need to ignore that fact! because it turns out we have a new record deficit - don't we David!

Davids contribution:
So, the United States elected Trump as the only one strong enough to turn America around to make prosperity a good thing again.

Mr trump won the electorial college. When it comes to the people of the USA - they voted for Clinton David - but you knew that - right - Mr trump had 3 million less popular votes. There is a reason Trump came out last week so strongly against one person one vote ! 184 of the 270 electorial votes needed are now committed to the national popular vote interstate compact. That scares thre hell out of repub right wingers.

Theres a republican conservative ideology if i ever heard one - every person who is qualified to vote - their vote counts exactly the same as any other persons vote! You can get behind that - right David.
You don't think brown and black peoples votes should count any less that yours - right?

heres a number that might not fit your rosey economic view David - try on 9.1 trillion! Hows that go down? thats the increase in the budget deficit under trumps budgets. i assume you guys will crowd fund that away right -

and speaking of that, i do admire Trump for his economically advantagous plan to force Mexico to pay for the wall ! I'm all for that = how that coming along? and have you donated to the crowd funding of the Wall David - seems like you ought to do your patriotic duty and support that with every spare dollar!

Davids contribution:
There is a reason why we now have You may not like the person, but you got to love the results. The lowest unemployment rate in history for most.. after just 2 years and after 2 years of being condemned as having Russian involvement by the left and fake news, and now proven totally false. Who did work with the Russians during the election (and before, selling uranium)? Hillary! LOL!!![/rquote]

so lets see
Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team indicted or got guilty pleas from 34 people and three companies during their lengthy investigation, which is now complete.

That group is composed of six former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Seven of these people (including five of the six former Trump advisers) have pleaded guilty.

yeah - complete fake news!

and how about we actually wait for the Mueller report to be released. I would rather read the 300 pages for myself, instead of a 4 page summary by a designated partisan!

and at what point will you admit what has been proven long ago - this whole Uranium deal was a conspiracy theory dealt by right wing bloggers and geniuses like the self admitted psycotic Jones. but if thats all you have, I guess you need to roll it out again, ignore facts , and get back into your echo chambers.

david, I feel bad for you. No matter what you think, the data , facts, numbers, history - it's all stacking up against you. That has to make it really hard to remain willfully Ignorant!
In your case, I do not think you are willfully ignorant, but i do know you are actively ignoring anything that threatens your personal and political beliefs.
here's a hint David, if you let facts and information actually inform and shape your views , beliefs abnd opinions, it is alot easier ! you can defend your ideology based on those facts and information, instead of having to work so very hard to come up with such completely obvious willfully inadaquite "reasons" for your beliefs.

and just to be clear David, I have never voted for a Clinton in my life, and I did vote for Reagan. so that kind of screws up your demonization tool - right?

[Edited on 3-31-2019 by caj13]

This is a great post. Great arguments against some obvious falsehoods.

wessongroup - 4-2-2019 at 02:14 PM

When it comes to who is educated

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2017/demo/education-attai...

As for who voted ... Guess we will never really know ... due to States Rights ... Wow haven't heard that one since the 60's and/or the Civil War :lol:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2017/07/04/now-44-s...

[Edited on 4-2-2019 by wessongroup]

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 03:51 PM

Interesting statistics...

But why make this about race and promote stereo types like that?

Because isn't that what you just did... and incite hatred...

[Edited on 4-2-2019 by fishbuck]

wessongroup - 4-2-2019 at 05:20 PM

Not my "numbers" they are from the Federal Government on education and facts really don't have feelings IMO ... as for "knowing" who is voting ... that speaks for its self and has nothing to do with "hatred" .. also IMO

The only point beeping raised was the "educational level" of voters in the United States and whether those voting are in fact eligible to vote in an election for President ... since some would like to do away with the Electoral College

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by wessongroup]

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 05:32 PM

"...speaks for itself"
Really, how so...?

Numbers don't speak... but you do...
What is it you are implying...?
Speak up!

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by fishbuck]

JoeJustJoe - 4-2-2019 at 05:42 PM

"...speaks for itself"
Really, how so...?

Numbers don't speak... but you do...
What is it you are inplying...?
Speak up!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has trouble trying to understand what Wesson is trying to say and I doubt even he knows what is is trying to say because he is usually off topic and all over the place, but one thing that you can alway be sure of are the racial undertones with his postings.

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 06:06 PM

Thank you Dave.

John Harper - 4-2-2019 at 06:27 PM

I think it was only 70,000 votes over 3 states that tilted the Electoral College to President Trump. I really don't see a reason to change it, that's really not much to overcome for a Democrat presidential win in 2020. Finding a proper candidate may be the hard part.

Weren't there 10 million more Democrat votes versus Republican in 2018? Up from 3 million more in 2016? I know it was a substantial increase in voter participation, even for a midterm election.

John

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by John Harper]

wessongroup - 4-2-2019 at 06:46 PM

The educational numbers do in fact speak for themselves ... as it relates to educational levels of American Citizen's who vote (see link provided above)

The fact that 44 States would not comply with a request for documentation on voters also speakers very clearly on what State's think about their role in insuring complete and open elections .. IMO ... Which most with a reasonable ability to read should easily understand ... provided there is not basis in the ability to read and comprehend (see link provided above)

The concept that high population density would have an unbalanced impact on the election process ... Was also a concern of the French after their revolution ... with the primary concern centered on the most populace center in France at that time " Paris" and many in the the Colonies were keenly aware of, also ... Hence the development and incorporation of the Electoral College in the development and passage of our Constitution by the founding fathers .... Nothing new there

The Electoral College is a process, not a place. The founding fathers established it in the Constitution as a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens. ... A majority of 270 electoral votes is required to elect the President.

Agree with John ... the proper candidate ... which is spot on

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by wessongroup]

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 06:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

The educational numbers do in fact speak for themselves ... as it relates to educational levels of American Citizen's who vote (see link provided above)

The fact that 44 States would not comply with a request for documentation on voters also speakers very clearly on what State's think about their role in insuring complete and open elections .. IMO ... Which most with a reasonable ability to read should easily understand ... provided there is not basis in the ability to read and comprehend (see link provided above)

The concept that high population density would have an unbalanced impact on the election process ... Was also a concern of the French after their revolution ... with the primary concern centered on the most populace center in France at that time " Paris" and in the Colonies ... Hence the development and incorporation of the Electoral College in the development and passage of our Constitution by the founding fathers .... Nothing new there

The Electoral College is a process, not a place. The founding fathers established it in the Constitution as a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens. ... A majority of 270 electoral votes is required to elect the President.

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by wessongroup]

All this "education" and I still don't know what you are trying to make these numbers say.
Please stop abusing these helpless numbers and just say what you mean.
Plain english.
Summorize your analysis for me.
What is your point.

wessongroup - 4-2-2019 at 07:05 PM

Why don't you tell me what YOU don't understand .... As it relates to the level of education of voters participating in Presidential Elections

I posted the numbers as a reference to those that were implying that some lack a certain level of education for voting ... Based on the numbers where is the short fall located (lower levels of education) ... GOP or Democrat ? when it comes to voting for a President

I believe I have stated and restated MY point on both education and the need for the Electoral College

And I'm not "trying" to make the numbers say anything .... The numbers speak for themselves as it relates to educational levels of voters in Presidential Elections.

As does the refusal of 44 states to comply with a request of information on voters roles in each state

This is where I came in on .... education

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Ignorance is bliss Ged... you should know that... but you don't.

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 4-2-2019 at 07:21 PM

If only Los Angeles was left out of the last election, Trump would also have won the popular vote. A map of counties going to a candidate more closely aligns with the logic of an electoral college. However, Trump won most of the states, anyway. The states vote for the president.
The purpose of the electoral college is to make sure the president is elected by and represents all 50 of the United States. If it was a popular vote that mattered, then the candidates would only campaign in the few most populated states, primarily the left and right coasts.
An electoral college protects the minority and ensures the president represents most of the states not just the crowded masses in big cities.

You mean leave out the heavy Latino voters who turned California blue, and Trump would have won the popular vote too.

There is a lesson in this California, was not always a blue state. Republican, Governor, Pete Wilson, and prop 187, turned California from a pro Republican to a deep blue state, and Trump, is a lot worse that Pete Wilson, in playing the divisive race card, so what Trump's doing is not anything new, although Trump, is playing racial politics on steroids.

Of course the founding fathers though way back a few centuries ago that the electoral college would be the best way to pick the President, but clearly this is also a flawed system when every recent Presidential race is decided on about four Midwest states and Florida. At least Florida, is a diverse state with many different people from different backgrounds, but the Midwest states are mostly white working class states, with both city and rural parts.

So in 2020 we are probably going to look at a state like Wisconsin, that's mostly white, working class, and rural.

I'm sorry, that''s just not America anymore.

wessongroup - 4-2-2019 at 08:13 PM

Perhaps a more realistic view of voting would be looking at the county level for each state .... Tends to give a somewhat different view ... as it relates to voting "centers" within the United States

2016 elections by counties

[/url]

2018 elections .. mid terms

btw .. just numbers :biggrin:

Lee - 4-2-2019 at 08:14 PM

On topic. Can we just have a show of hands? Who thinks shutting down the border would be a really great idea?

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 09:23 PM

On topic. Can we just have a show of hands? Who thinks shutting down the border would be a really great idea?

Why attack Trump people by calling them stupid?
What does that get you Lee?
So anyone that doesn't agree with Lee is stupid?

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by fishbuck]

mtgoat666 - 4-2-2019 at 09:55 PM

One person, one vote. flock those hillbillies that want their vote to count for more because they live in some rural backwater.

mtgoat666 - 4-2-2019 at 09:59 PM

On topic. Can we just have a show of hands? Who thinks shutting down the border would be a really great idea?

Trump is an idiot. He spouts nonsense w/o thinking. No one is going to shut down the border, especially president cheetoh head.

fishbuck - 4-2-2019 at 11:14 PM

"Trump supporters are stupid"
"Trump is an idiot"
"President cheetoh head"
"Trump spouts nonsense"
"Trump voters are backwater hillbillies"

Did I miss any...

Keep em coming.

This is entertaining and enlightening.

One could say this is... very educational :cool:

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by fishbuck]

fishbuck - 4-3-2019 at 12:28 AM

March 1, 2019, 1:33 AM PST

By Julia Ainsley

WASHINGTON — Undocumented immigrants are increasingly choosing to cross the U.S. border illegally rather than waiting in line to claim asylum at legal ports of entry, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection data obtained by NBC News.

Immigration lawyers and rights advocates say asylum seekers are opting for illegal crossing because they are growing frustrated with waiting lines caused by Trump administration policies

fishbuck - 4-3-2019 at 12:54 AM

IMMIGRATION

Published March 29, 2019

Last Update 5 days ago

Mexico braces for new caravan of Central American migrants

By Associated Press

Mexico is bracing for the possible arrival of the "mother of all caravans," even as doubts arise over whether the group of Central American migrants will be all that big.

Interior Secretary Olga Sanchez Cordero has said a caravan of migrants from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala could be forming.

"We have information that a new caravan is forming in Honduras, that they're calling 'the mother of all caravans,' and they are thinking it could have more than 20,000 people," Sanchez Cordero said Wednesday.

chuckie - 4-3-2019 at 03:43 AM

Shutting down the Border ranks about the same as building a wall....Both DUMB ideas.....

fishbuck - 4-3-2019 at 04:41 AM

Chuckie for President

" Shutting down the Border ranks about the same as building a wall....Both DUMB ideas"

paranewbi - 4-3-2019 at 05:35 AM

From JJJ
"Paranewbi, I'm not sure where you going with your post above, but if I recall Trump, threatened to stop remittance from the US to Mexico, or somehow use some kind of remittance tax to get Mexico to pay for the wall during his 2018 Presidential campaign, but as usual Trump, didn't live up to any of his campaign promises regarding the big beautiful wall."

OK...so NOW we're holding politicians to political utterances?

"So now Trump, comes up with the dumbest idea of them all: he wants to close the border, and it's all mostly because he is having a temper tantrum. He also wants to feed red meat to his base."

Have a cup of coffee JJJ and relax a bit...then offer more than tea leaves and bloviating.

"Sure taking money from US coffers and giving to Latin American countries instead of spending it here in the US, sure doesn't help poor cities in the US, but you could say the same thing about the US giving $3 or $4 billion dollar Israel, which largely uses the money for military purposes."

Well, it seems if we want to support a nation in that part of the world, Israel would be the one best fit to our values (got a better choice?) And there's something to say about this tiny nation reappearing over and over again in history. But to compare Nations that are noted to be a place their own people flee to a nation that people flock to...

"What the Latin American countries get in aid, pales in comparison to what Israel gets, but I bet you won't complain about that Paranewbi?"

Again...Israel or Mexico/Central America? Hmmm...
By the way, 23 billion dollars was sent to Mexico families from US family members last year...a 10 percent tax would go a long way to building a nice wall. And that doesn't include monies sent to Central America.

John Harper - 4-3-2019 at 05:59 AM

23 billion dollars was sent to Mexico families from US family members last year...a 10 percent tax would go a long way to building a nice wall. And that doesn't include monies sent to Central America.

That may be against international conventions, an example of double taxation, as well as needing an act of Congress to "levy taxes."

Why pick on them? What about money sent to India? China? Luxembourg? Monte Carlo? Cayman Islands? Looks like a "slippery slope" to me.

John

Pacifico - 4-3-2019 at 07:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

I think it was only 70,000 votes over 3 states that tilted the Electoral College to President Trump. I really don't see a reason to change it, that's really not much to overcome for a Democrat presidential win in 2020. Finding a proper candidate may be the hard part.

Weren't there 10 million more Democrat votes versus Republican in 2018? Up from 3 million more in 2016? I know it was a substantial increase in voter participation, even for a midterm election.

John

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by John Harper]

I agree with John. The Electoral College shouldn't need to be done away with or changed. Our founding fathers were quite brilliant when they came up with it.

Nor should other avenues be changed or adopted such as lowering voting age and letting "illegals" vote, just to secure more votes. Clearly, the Democrats are desperate at this point. It's gonna get tougher too as voter rolls get cleaned up. No more dead people voting or people voting twice...(less corruption).
As John suggests, find the proper candidate and you might find success, but that might be hard.

paranewbi - 4-3-2019 at 07:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

The same wall will keep them all from cutting in line ahead of those who go through the proper channels. Although it's obvious where the most are coming from makes your point mute.
There's no problem someone seeking asylum/whatever else; doing it the way the US provides...but once they touch US terra firma they have advantages others don't. How do you keep someone from trespassing? Your front door and/or Your fence, (or gun, whatever you protect your possessions with) and numerous locks, cams, dogs, etc ...a posted sign seems to never be enough.

John Harper - 4-3-2019 at 08:26 AM

Although it's obvious where the most are coming from makes your point moot.

I'm not sure I understand what issue you want to address. My comment referred to the inherent difficulties of taxing international money transfers.

John

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by John Harper]

JoeJustJoe - 4-3-2019 at 10:33 AM

P wrote: OK...so NOW we're holding politicians to political utterances?

JJJ wrote: Yes Paranewbi, I expect politicians to live up to their word, especially with their signature campaign promise, which in Trump's case, was to build the wall, and make Mexico pay for it.

I'm surprised you take compulsive lying by Trump, as nothing more than political utterances.

P wrote: Have a cup of coffee JJJ and relax a bit...then offer more than tea leaves and bloviating.

JJJ wrote: I'm relaxed Paranewbi, because I don't believe a word from Trump, and I don't believe he has the balls to close the border, and have corporate America, tell the GOP, to rein Trump in.

It's you Paranewbi, and your ilk, who are dreaming Trump, shuts down the border, and keeps all the brown people from coming to America, and then getting upset when that doesn't happen.

P wrote: Well, it seems if we want to support a nation in that part of the world, Israel would be the one best fit to our values (got a better choice?) And there's something to say about this tiny nation reappearing over and over again in history. But to compare Nations that are noted to be a place their own people flee to a nation that people flock to...

JJJ wrote: What values does Israel share with the US?

Israel, is an apartheid state, and in recent years, it has turned hard right.

There current leader Netanyahu, see Israel, as a nation for Jews only and any Palestinians born in that country as non citizens with second class status.

Could imagine if the US President, said, America, is a Christian Nation, for Christians only, or White Christians only?

On second thought maybe you could imagine that.

Please don't get religious, with the God's people hints. That doesn't fly with me

And if your criticize Israel's polices, you're suddenly supposed to be anti-Semitic

P wrote: Again...Israel or Mexico/Central America? Hmmm...
By the way, 23 billion dollars was sent to Mexico families from US family members last year...a 10 percent tax would go a long way to building a nice wall. And that doesn't include monies sent to Central America.

JJJ wrote: the $23 million dollars doesn't belong to you Paranewbi or Trump, why would you like to tax immigrants twice?

I'm sorry, but Trump, will not tax remittance and it's an old story that never gained traction.

paranewbi - 4-3-2019 at 02:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Although it's obvious where the most are coming from makes your point moot.

I'm not sure I understand what issue you want to address. My comment referred to the inherent difficulties of taxing international money transfers.

John

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by John Harper]

Yes John, your 'comment' was as you state. I accepted it as just such, an opinion, and noted the 'may' as a hint of uncertainty in your citation. It wasn't a question to be responded to though. I observed your comment and let it stand for what it was...your comment. We should all allow comments to be what they are, a comment/opinion rightfully stated.

Your question was concerning the taxation of a select group, i.e. Mexico and Central America, and not those listed, you were concerned with in your question.
The question is what provoked my response, not your comment. Your question did not challenge the act of the taxation, just the aspect of whom would be taxed and that is what I addressed.

I appreciate the chance to engage this subject with you as it is pleasant to have NOT been name-called, attributed derogatory innuendos, and assigned association with entities, as certain others seem to resort to.

John Harper - 4-3-2019 at 03:37 PM

I appreciate the chance to engage this subject with you as it is pleasant to have NOT been name-called, attributed derogatory innuendos, and assigned association with entities, as certain others seem to resort to.

Thank you. I do try my best to understand other's perspectives and keep the conversation respectful. Not always successful, but I try.

As a HS teacher, I do my best to model respectful behavior for my students. I think we all know how much bullying, etc. goes on with social media today and our youth.

John

[Edited on 4-3-2019 by John Harper]

David K - 4-3-2019 at 03:48 PM

Good job you two! Thank you for being civil to each other.

John Harper - 4-3-2019 at 04:43 PM