BajaNomad - Bad people, bad ideas, in Baja

Bad people, bad ideas, in Baja

mtgoat666 - 4-14-2019 at 10:47 PM

http://vizcainohoy.com/index.php/noticias/item/27030-retomar...

Retomarán proyecto de salitrales en San Ignacio
DESTACADO
ABR 13, 2019

La Paz, Baja California Sur.- El proyecto de ampliación de la Exportadora de Sal de Guerrero Negro (ESSA) a

los salitrales de San Ignacio será retomado y en su caso presentado ante el Consejo de Administración, según dio a conocer Antonio Avilés Rocha, director de esta paraestatal.

La idea ya fue expuesta por el propio funcionario al presidente Andrés Manuel López Obrador, para retomar el proyecto que se frustró en el año 2000 por presiones de las ONG ambientalistas que orillaron al entonces presidente Ernesto Zedillo a cancelarlo con el argumento de que representaría una modificación al paisaje.

Avilés Rocha recalcó que por lo pronto se trata de una propuesta en la que se analiza la pertinencia de evaluar nuevamente este proyecto, atendiendo a las condiciones actuales del mercado.

Recordó que en caso de concretarse la ESSA aumentaría sus utilidades hasta en un 30 por ciento, ya que construiría un muelle de 170 metros y un sistema de bandas en las cual se cargarían directamente los barcos que llevan la sal a su destino final, y no como en la actualidad que deben ser descargados en isla de Cedros, con el costo que representa esta doble maniobra.

En lugar de Cedros estos barcos, con capacidad de hasta 100 mil toneladas, se cargarían en este nuevo muelle y ya no habría necesidad de usar las barcazas de 10 mil toneladas que actualmente acarrean el producto desde El Chaparrito hasta la isla.

Pese a que en su momento la actividad salinera fue objeto de duras críticas por parte de ambientalistas, en la actualidad ha quedado demostrado que opera con respeto absoluto a la naturaleza y convive con especies como la ballena gris y más de 200 tipos de aves, concluyó Avilés Rocha.

BajaNomad - 4-14-2019 at 11:52 PM

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&...

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&...

[Edited on 4-15-2019 by BajaNomad]

David K - 4-15-2019 at 07:22 AM

Thank you, Doug.
Goat, I fail to see anything about "bad people" just the proposal for improving efficiency. Do you even know how the salt gets to market now? They have to load it onto barges in Scammon's Lagoon (Laguna Ojo de Liebre) and unload it on Cedros Island where it is reloaded onto deep-ocean cargo ships.
I would think that any way to not disturb the whales would be a good idea? Eliminating the barge activity in the lagoon (while has not bothered the whales from growing in numbers there) would seem like a positive thing?

weebray - 4-15-2019 at 07:23 AM

The cream always rises to the top.

MMc - 4-15-2019 at 07:40 AM

This will be political. I love the area and would hate to see a salt plant there. I think the locals should decide, they are the folks that will live it.

KurtG - 4-15-2019 at 07:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Thank you, Doug.
Goat, I fail to see anything about "bad people" just the proposal for improving efficiency. Do you even know how the salt gets to market now? They have to load it onto barges in Scammon's Lagoon (Laguna Ojo de Liebre) and unload it on Cedros Island where it is reloaded onto deep-ocean cargo ships.
I would think that any way to not disturb the whales would be a good idea? Eliminating the barge activity in the lagoon (while has not bothered the whales from growing in numbers there) would seem like a positive thing?

David,
This issue was fought out 20 years ago, no matter which side of the issue you are on you might read more about it in the book "Eye Of The Whale" by Dick Russell. The environmental issues go beyond the whales and involve the lagoon's role as a critical nursery in the marine food chain.

David K - 4-15-2019 at 08:17 AM

I think there is some confusion or the translated page doesn't have enough data? This is about Guerrero Negro salt transport. The 20-year-old project was near San Ignacio Lagoon/ Punta Abreojos with a ridiculously long pier. That pier was the main issue, I recall?

From what I read above, and I welcome corrected data:
This is not a new "salt plant" being discussed, the salt plant has been there for over 60 years.
This is a direct loading proposal to eliminate the barge activity on the lagoon and load the salt directly onto the cargo ships.

motoged - 4-15-2019 at 09:05 AM

Are you sure about that, David?

If the loading pier was near Abreojos, wouldn't they have to barge the salt from GN?

Doesn't make sense to me to do that....Isla Cedros is much closer for barges.

4x4abc - 4-15-2019 at 09:11 AM

it is about revamping the San Ignacio project
evaporating ponds around the lagoon
a long pier to ship the salt
since we subscribe to capitalism it will happen sooner or later
but happen it will

KurtG - 4-15-2019 at 10:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

I think there is some confusion or the translated page doesn't have enough data? This is about Guerrero Negro salt transport. The 20-year-old project was near San Ignacio Lagoon/ Punta Abreojos with a ridiculously long pier. That pier was the main issue, I recall?

From what I read above, and I welcome corrected data:
This is not a new "salt plant" being discussed, the salt plant has been there for over 60 years.
This is a direct loading proposal to eliminate the barge activity on the lagoon and load the salt directly onto the cargo ships.

Google Translation, specifically refers to reopening the proposal for saltworks at San Ignacio Lagoon and says that it is the same proposal that was rejected in 2000.

"http: //vizcainohoy.com/index.php/noticias/item/27030-retomar ... They

will resume salitrales project in San Ignacio
HIGHLIGHTED
APR 13, 2019

La Paz, Baja California Sur.- The project to extend the Exportadora de Sal de Guerrero Negro (ESSA) to

the Salitrales de San Ignacio will be resumed and, if appropriate, presented to the Board of Directors, according to Antonio Avilés Rocha, director of this parastatal.

The idea was already exposed by the official to President Andrés Manuel López Obrador, to resume the project that was frustrated in 2000 by pressures from environmental NGOs that led President Ernesto Zedillo to cancel it on the grounds that it would represent a modification to the landscape."

David K - 4-15-2019 at 01:02 PM

This is what I read, here is the scan of the English translated web page:

...it would build a 170-meter pier and a system of bands in which the ships carrying the salt would be loaded directly to their final destination, and not as nowadays they must be unloaded in Cedros Island, with the cost of this double maneuver.

Instead of Cedros these boats, with a capacity of up to 100 thousand tons, would be loaded on this new dock and there would be no need to use the 10 thousand tonne barges that currently carry the product from El Chaparrito to the island.

This is the Ojo de Liebre Lagoon port operation and this pier is tiny compared to the miles-long one proposed near Punta Abreojos back 20 years ago.

rts551 - 4-15-2019 at 02:58 PM

Don't let those that can't read the whole thing fool you. This is about reopening the proposal for the new salt works in San Ignacio Lagoon. The bands (translation issue) is the proposed conveyor system from the salt works to the barges. The local areas are already forming groups to combat the proposal.

David K - 4-15-2019 at 03:12 PM

The whole thing is the link Doug posted in English or goat posted in Spanish. The part that clearly says this is to improve the Guerrero Negro salt transport is what I pasted. The conveyer belt and short pier replaces the barge system from Scammon's Lagoon to Cedros Island.
If you have more details that disprove this article we are discussing then by all means, post it!

rts551 - 4-15-2019 at 05:35 PM

This is too easy David. I don't know if its your ignorance or abstinence that makes you pick those pieces out of context. From Dougs translation "This plan, which was first introduced in 1995, sought to create another salt plant, about 70 kilometers south of where the current one is located, in an area called Salitrales de San Ignacio ; there, the aim was to build the necessary infrastructure that would have allowed it, according to the company's version, to increase its profits by 30%.

Now the intention, according to the director of the Parastatal, Antonio Avilés Rocha , is to resume that initiative, which was already exposed to the country's president, Andrés Manuel López Obrador , who would improve his production and income. "

Please do not dig your hole any deeper.

David K - 4-15-2019 at 07:24 PM

That was the past project and then it specifically states the new project is to replace the barge system between the port in Scammon's Lagoon and Cedros Island. How is it you miss that? It named the port, the belt, and the short pier length is provided.

rts551 - 4-15-2019 at 08:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

That was the past project and then it specifically states the new project is to replace the barge system between the port in Scammon's Lagoon and Cedros Island. How is it you miss that? It named the port, the belt, and the short pier length is provided.

What part of "Now the intention, according to the director of the Parastatal, Antonio Avilés Rocha , is to resume that initiative" do you not understand. I am done here. As usual, my forehead hurts after these post.

mtgoat666 - 4-15-2019 at 09:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

You are sporting alternative facts again! Stop being a cheetoh head, and read the text again!

“Este plan, que fue primeramente ingresado en 1995, buscaba crear otra planta de sal, a unos 70 kilómetros al sur de donde se encuentra la actual, en un predio denominado Salitrales de San Ignacio ; ahí, se buscaba construir la infraestructura necesaria que le hubiera permitido, según la versión de la empresa, aumentar 30 % sus utilidades.

Ahora la intención, de acuerdo al director de la Paraestatal, Antonio Avilés Rocha , es retomar aquella iniciativa, que ya le fue expuesta al presidente del país, Andrés Manuel López Obrador , que vendría mejoraría su producción e ingresos.”

David K - 4-15-2019 at 10:45 PM

Is it really your wish to make fake news out of this and not post the English translation to keep the majority here in the dark?

The last two paragraphs of the article sums it up. Do you guys hate good news?:

Instead of Cedros these boats, with a capacity of up to 100 thousand tons, would be loaded on this new dock and there would be no need to use the 10 thousand tonne barges that currently carry the product from El Chaparrito to the island.

Although at the time the salt industry was subject to harsh criticism by environmentalists, it has now been shown that it operates with absolute respect for nature and lives with species such as the gray whale and more than 200 types of birds, concluded Avilés Rocha

bajatrailrider - 4-15-2019 at 11:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by David K

. People don't even answer this village idiot 666 . Just a washed up old turd knows nothing about Baja.

Geo_Skip - 4-17-2019 at 08:33 PM

Thanks for the heads up mtngoat.

There's another thing that rises to the top (and pollutes the comments).
In the wastewater treatment, he is known as a "floater" for the larger chunks which rise to the top of the settling tanks.

You know who I mean.