BajaNomad

A Hidden Desert Railroad: Las Flores to the San Juan Tramline

David K - 4-17-2019 at 11:25 AM

I wrote a new article on the Las Flores Railroad line and made it into a web page for my site as a 2017 trip entry. Please enjoy: http://vivabaja.com/Las%20Flores%20Railroad.htm

gueribo - 4-17-2019 at 01:55 PM

Nice article, David. In 2015 I interviewed Fermín Smith Guerra, the delegado of Bahía de los Angeles. He told me of his grandfather, who was a hand-miner (gambusino). Great stories about the mine, its history, and town life in the 1930s. There was still quite a bit of small-scale extracting activity in the arroyos around the area after the mine closed, following the revolution.

Here's what Las Flores once looked like:






[Edited on 4-17-2019 by BajaNomad]

gueribo - 4-17-2019 at 02:01 PM

The jail building, which Fermín said was used to store explosive powder--to keep it safe from flames or careless individuals.










[Edited on 4-17-2019 by BajaNomad]

David K - 4-17-2019 at 03:30 PM

Thank you for the photos and thanks to Doug for fitting them in the thread.

I suspected such a strongly built building was for more important things than drunken miners returning from the saloon. However, I tend to side that it was for the ingots since the mine was up at San Juan and not at Las Flores?

gueribo - 4-17-2019 at 07:14 PM

I imagine it could have been both, at different times. Buildings were often repurposed according to the need at the time.

fishbuck - 4-17-2019 at 07:57 PM

Do you think we can get it going again?:bounce:

David K - 4-17-2019 at 08:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
Do you think we can get it going again?:bounce:


Yes! Go to the link I included in there to my past Las Flores article. It contains photos from LarryC up at the San Juan Mine, inside the tunnel there... It goes to the deepest shaft in Baja! They didn't run out of gold, they just got into a political problem!

fishbuck - 4-17-2019 at 08:09 PM

Is this a "secret" mine?

PaulW - 4-18-2019 at 07:01 AM

David, Did you export the Inreach GPX track for that portion of your travel to share?

David K - 4-18-2019 at 09:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
Is this a "secret" mine?


No, the Secret Mine of Jesus Flores story is detailed in Gardner's 1962 book.

David K - 4-18-2019 at 10:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
David, Did you export the Inreach GPX track for that portion of your travel to share?


I simply copied the map from the Garmin web page of my tracks. https://inreach.garmin.com/ and go to the Map page. In Photobucket, I added the text and arrows. (since then, Photobucket has changed their editing features and I think those arrows are not offered anymore).

PaulW - 4-18-2019 at 02:35 PM

It is a shame you ignore the gps track. It is so easy to export it to you PC. Takes about 5 seconds after you log onto the map on your account.

4x4abc - 4-18-2019 at 02:41 PM

the other railroad bed is a lot more exciting
well defined and you can drive with your truck up to the tram line

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 07:30 PM

I always wondered where the mine was when I drove past Las Flores.

I always thought it was west of the jail, never thought it was south of it.

Thank You for taking the time to post about this.

4x4abc - 4-18-2019 at 08:12 PM

Mina San Juan
28°42'36.27"N, 113°34'29.88"W

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:30 PM

Thanks, Harald....gonna pull that up on google earth now.

David K - 4-18-2019 at 08:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
It is a shame you ignore the gps track. It is so easy to export it to you PC. Takes about 5 seconds after you log onto the map on your account.


I don't understand what you mean. What was ignored?

David K - 4-18-2019 at 09:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
the other railroad bed is a lot more exciting
well defined and you can drive with your truck up to the tram line


Show me please.

4x4abc - 4-18-2019 at 09:26 PM

but you have to use a GPS program, David.
here we go:
www.baja101.com/Baja-GPS/tramway.kml
www.baja101.com/Baja-GPS/Railroad-bed.kml

4x4abc - 4-18-2019 at 11:38 PM

on your own road log, David.
Santa Marta Mine
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=28207

David K - 4-19-2019 at 11:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
on your own road log, David.
Santa Marta Mine
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=28207


Drive to BAHIA LAS ANIMAS (July, 2004)

0.0 L.A. Bay where one leaves the pavement heading south from the Xitlala (yellow) market intersection.

3.35 mi. Access road right to the Santa Marta mine tram line seen going up the mountain (next trip).

4.14 mi. Camp Gecko Driveway, office is 0.2 mi. left.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

0.0 Camp Gecko Driveway (28-53.96', 113-31.85' Map Datum is NAD27 Mexico)

5.7 Las Flores Jail to the west of road here

8.1 Road bends left, a 'Jeep' trail continues straight 3 miles to the end of the railroad line (terminal canyon) and bottom of the cable tram line from the San Juan mines at the top of the mountains ( http://vivabaja.com/402/page4.html )


Yes Harald, that is a different mine and rail line... Your replying in the San Juan/Las Flores railroad thread without saying this was a different place (Santa Marta) is what was confusing.

Thank you for KML links... The tracks from the Santa Marta Mine to the bay actually encircled the hill allowing gravity to take the full carts to the bayshore and then the empty carts were returned, possibly using mules?

Isn't Baja great for discovering history?

4x4abc - 4-19-2019 at 11:41 AM

Google even tells you the slope - 8.4%
vs Las Flores rail - 2.7%

since we have San Juan (Las Flores) and Santa Marta on the books now
what is the name of the mine directly above town?
28°56'33.55"N
113°34'59.75"W

there was a hike published here some time ago, but I could not find it

David K - 4-19-2019 at 12:57 PM

When I am back home later, I will see what I have on the mines close to town.

EDIT: Still looking Harald, so far only find San Juan, Santa Marta, and El Toro.

The museum at Bahía de los Angeles might be the only good source for the other mine names? Carolina Espinoza runs it.

[Edited on 4-20-2019 by David K]

chuckie - 4-19-2019 at 01:54 PM

OH-OH....DK got criticized!

larryC - 4-20-2019 at 07:20 AM

There are several mines in the vicinity, El Toro comes to mind right away. It is north of La Gringa and the shaft goes a long ways back in the mountain. I have never been brave enough to find the end of it.

David K - 4-20-2019 at 08:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
There are several mines in the vicinity, El Toro comes to mind right away. It is north of La Gringa and the shaft goes a long ways back in the mountain. I have never been brave enough to find the end of it.


That sounds cool, Larry!
Where is the shaft?
I have only seen the open cut where the road ends and know of the village location to the east... I hiked part-way but lost the trail when I didn't know the location exactly.


The end of the road at the El Toro Copper Mine.
Located about 7 miles northwest of La Gringa (north end of Bahia de los Angeles),
GPS: N29°05.86' W113°35.78' (NAD27 Mexico).
**** N29º05.87’ W113º35.82’ (WGS84)

My article on El Toro and La Gringa:
https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/la_gring...

larryC - 4-21-2019 at 07:26 AM

Your photo of the cut is where you would park your vehicle and start walking in a southerly direction (following a trail) about a mile or so and then you would see the tailings of the mine and some remnants of rock structures. That is where the shaft is. At the entrance to the mine the walls are covered in green crystals, really pretty. The road up to the cut where your photo was taken is now washed out so you have to park a little farther away from the trailhead to the mine. Once in the mine and back in a few hundred yards you go under some timbers wedged in to hold up the roof of the mine and just knowing that the timbers are a hundred years old or so makes me wonder how smart it is to be bumbling around in there.

David K - 4-21-2019 at 08:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
Your photo of the cut is where you would park your vehicle and start walking in a southerly direction (following a trail) about a mile or so and then you would see the tailings of the mine and some remnants of rock structures. That is where the shaft is. At the entrance to the mine the walls are covered in green crystals, really pretty. The road up to the cut where your photo was taken is now washed out so you have to park a little farther away from the trailhead to the mine. Once in the mine and back in a few hundred yards you go under some timbers wedged in to hold up the roof of the mine and just knowing that the timbers are a hundred years old or so makes me wonder how smart it is to be bumbling around in there.


Oh, this is great. Do you mean somewhere else besides along the road, as it comes in from the south? I hiked the trail from about where the road ended east, that goes to where the town was. When the trail vanished up on a mesa, I did not know where to go from there. Since then, I have found the townsite on Google Earth and see that the trail went on to the east from the mesa. I heard before my 2107 trip to La Gringa that the El Toro mine road was washed away.
Thanks Larry... Any photos??


La Gringa and the road to El Toro mines


The townsite


[Edited on 4-21-2019 by David K]