BajaNomad

Americans’ Life Savings Disappear From Mexican Bank Accounts

unbob - 5-24-2019 at 10:25 AM

Not Baja-specific - but certainly of interest to all residents of Mexico!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/expats-mi...

[Edited on 5-24-2019 by unbob]

Lee - 5-24-2019 at 10:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by unbob  
Not Baja-specific - but certainly of interest to all residents of Mexico!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/expats-mi...

[Edited on 5-24-2019 by unbob]


No surprise. Lose your money, sue the bank, go to court. Good luck on that. Never going to happen to me as I'll never have a MX bank account.

SFandH - 5-24-2019 at 11:03 AM

From the link in the article

Monex Casa de Bolsa:

Monex Casa de Bolsa provides financial advisory and services to Mexican and foreign financial institutions. The Company also derives revenues by investing in security, fixed and equity income funds and real estate.

An investment bank, much different than banks like Bancomer.

chuckie - 5-24-2019 at 11:44 AM

What Lee said....Learned my lesson.....lost a lil over 50K, Legal Thievery..I may learn slow but I learn good.....

fishbuck - 5-24-2019 at 11:54 AM

What about having an account at a local bank? Not life savings but just for functional access reasons. Local access.
Or can a US bank be used for all needs for an expat?

DawnPatrol - 5-24-2019 at 12:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
What Lee said....Learned my lesson.....lost a lil over 50K, Legal Thievery..I may learn slow but I learn good.....


wow.... Chuckie.... that sucks
care to elaborate ? If it is too sensitive to talk about it I definitely understand
Alan

SFandH - 5-24-2019 at 12:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  
What about having an account at a local bank? Not life savings but just for functional access reasons. Local access.
Or can a US bank be used for all needs for an expat?


If you are buying large ticket items or services, it might be handy to have a local account to wire money into from your US bank. Otherwise, an ATM card from a US bank will suffice for routine expenses. Make sure you have at least two cards, in case you lose one.

JoeJustJoe - 5-24-2019 at 01:30 PM

The title of the article is a little misleading because, " Monex Casa de Bolsa," is mostly a brokerage, real estate, and Forex, financial advisory service, although they do regular banking too, however, from reading the article, it appears the American senior citizens, Howard Haynes, the the 83 year old from Kansas City, like Chuckie, were investing in probably inappropriate risky trading given their age and not watching their accounts electronically. Do people actually wait for their monthly statement by mail?

There is a sucker born every minute, and senior citizens, because many of them are too trusting, and have built up nice nest eggs, are often a target.

Had the savings been in an actual Mexican bank account, they would have been covered up to the equivalent FDIC insurance in Mexico, called IPAB, and they cover savings account, checking accounts, debit cards, and a few other financial instruments up to a limit. If you have more than the Mexican banks, limit, put you money in another bank, like a US bank.

I know what people are thinking that everything in Mexico, is 3rd world, but Mexico banking in not one of them. With the exception of Mexicans liking to deal in cash, and are prone to be robbed with large amount of money. Mexican banks, are first world, and can rip off people, or screw people, as good as banks in the US or Europe with legal scams.

In the US if you're Schwab, account loses money from unauthorized trades or hacking, your brokerage SPIC insurance, may not save you. You will have to prove the trades were unauthorized and you were not just scammed. So it does take time for even Schwab, to make your whole again.

My bet the Mexican banks/brokers will settle with the ex-pats that lost money, but it will take time, and if they don't make take care of their clients, they could lose their ability to bank around the world.

My feelings if you put all your eggs in one basket,( one bank) and are not watching that basket, online often, then you probably deserve to be ripped off, or inconvenienced while they try to trace what happened to your money.

Of course, you could leave all your money in a US bank, and have bank employees rip you off with high commissioned fixed or variable annuities, while they try to get you to keep all your money in one bank only.

grizzlyfsh95 - 5-24-2019 at 04:22 PM

Had ID theft couple of years ago. Us banks covered the losses. Mexican (Bancomer) did not. Told us to just suck it up. Thieves cleaned out checking and savings. We keep minimal balance in a checking account not, and do not use debit cards.

bajatrailrider - 5-24-2019 at 04:28 PM

Why would you put life savings in a Mexican bank. bankcomer the worst. Mexican next door had account with bankcomer. Someone got hold of his debit card number cleaned out his account. He sued bankcomer won they had to give all money back and all legal fees.

JoeJustJoe - 5-24-2019 at 06:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95  
Had ID theft couple of years ago. Us banks covered the losses. Mexican (Bancomer) did not. Told us to just suck it up. Thieves cleaned out checking and savings. We keep minimal balance in a checking account not, and do not use debit cards.


Maybe Bancomer, didn't find your story credible since you claim the ID thieves cleaned out both your US and Mexican bank accounts.

How did the hackers gain access to your mutiple accounts in both the US and Mexico? Did they get a hold of your computer or email? Are you sure it's not someone like an ex-wife?

Usually they get one debit or credit card and gain access to one account and if ID thieves get your Social Secuirty number they just get credit cards using your identity and then go on a shopping spree and then it takes time to clean up your credit.

chuckie - 5-25-2019 at 04:26 AM

The size of this theft is pretty amazing,,...7.3 million cases so far....and 18.9 BILLION Pesos in value, gone missing

BajaBlanca - 5-25-2019 at 04:50 AM

Les really had a hard time when we first moved here. It took us two months to open up an account. Once done, fees took all his money and there was no way (at the time) to see online what was happening. I bet he was one of the fastest clients ever to shut down an account (and he had to PAY to shut it down)!

We now use numerous American banks and find that his mot having a Mexican account is not an issue at all, ever. When we need larger sums, we simply use wells fargo to transfer $$$.

I have an account that is protected since I am a teacher in the Mexican schools but every so often bizarre smaller sums disappear.

Hook - 5-25-2019 at 05:46 AM

I believe Monex is also big in the fideicomiso business. Hope it doesnt affect anyone's trust.

bajatrailrider - 5-25-2019 at 06:21 AM

Santander is sister bank of Wells Fargo. I now use Wells Fargo to change dollars to pesos. Then they send free to Santander . Also great ex. Rate better then chase.

JoeJustJoe - 5-25-2019 at 06:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
The size of this theft is pretty amazing,,...7.3 million cases so far....and 18.9 BILLION Pesos in value, gone missing


Your money may be safer in a Mexico bank, with over 70 percent identify thefts taking place in the US compared to the rest of the world.

BajaBlanca, mentions Wells Fargo, as if it's a safe bank, but if anything moving your money to Wells Fargo, is like going from the frying pan to the fire! No bank in the world committed as many scams on their clients in so many ways as Well Fargo, who has so far paid billions in fines for their scams.

The latest is Wells Fargo, is up to their old tricks.



SAN FRANCISCO, February 6, 2018 – The 2018 Identity Fraud Study released today by Javelin Strategy & Research, revealed that the number of identity fraud victims increased by eight percent (rising to 16.7 million U.S. consumers) in the last year, a record high since Javelin Strategy & Research began tracking identity fraud in 2003. The study found that despite industry efforts to prevent identity fraud, fraudsters successfully adapted to net 1.3 million more victims in 2017, with the amount stolen rising to $16.8 billion

Banking in Mexico

LancairDriver - 6-7-2019 at 08:01 PM


Bank fraud in San Miguel de Allende: expats fight to regain US $40 million stolen through Ponzi scheme
Some have settled for 50 cents on the dollar. Others are determined to get their money back

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/bank-fraud-in-san-miguel-de...

Lee - 6-7-2019 at 09:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  

Bank fraud in San Miguel de Allende: expats fight to regain US $40 million stolen through Ponzi scheme
Some have settled for 50 cents on the dollar. Others are determined to get their money back

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/bank-fraud-in-san-miguel-de...


“During all the time I spent at Monex HQ I felt I was treated as the criminal and not the victim,” Brown said.''

''An 82-year-old European retiree who banked with Zavala and Monex since 2005, who did not wish to be named for fear over her safety....''

''Mexico News Daily spoke to more than a dozen victims for this story, half of whom refused to be identified, fearing for their personal safety or reprisal from Monex...'

Napoleonic law. Guilty until proven innocent. Bank blames victims for not paying attention to their accounts. Typical MX corruption.

Alm - 6-8-2019 at 10:55 AM

The article is poor on banking details. There is no mention of IPAB - Mexican govt deposit insurance body, so I "presume" this was not applicable and the lost/stolen funds were mutual fund products sold through the Banco Monex, rather than checking or savings accounts.

Schemes where you can be had usually imply a freedom to perform transactions and permutations on your behalf with not much disclosure, potentially high returns and no guarantee of initial deposit. Had to be mutual funds, exchange-traded funds or similar products.

Many banks have in-house products of this type. Monex used to be a mutual funds broker, it's only in 2006 that they added actual bank to their operations. There are dozens of old global banks with respective Mexican entities, - Monex is not one of them.

[Edited on 6-8-2019 by Alm]

Hook - 6-8-2019 at 04:04 PM

I DO suspect that a lot of these victims were lured to these investment products by the promises of returns of 10-20%, annually. And that type of investment is probably not insured.

Still, this is clearly some type of fraudulent activity. There has been no significant downturn in the major stock exchanges that could be blamed for the loss of their investments. Or, I guess, a hugely undiversified investment and 1-3 companies failing could explain it.

But in Mexico, there are usually other explanations that are more nefarious. In this case, who was making these unauthorized withdrawals from all these clients accounts? That's what makes this different than simply a devalued investment.



SFandH - 6-8-2019 at 04:37 PM

It appears to me that the folks who lost money had investment accounts that invested in securities of some type. These were not savings/checking accounts like you would have at Bancomer, Banamex, etc. One investor said he was promised a 10% return. That should have been a red flag. The article also indicated that a group of employees at this branch stole money out of the accounts. I didn't see anything that would indicate a Ponzi scheme as claimed by the article. It looks like plain and simple theft by bank employees. Who knows why these folks were putting life savings in a foreign bank.

[Edited on 6-8-2019 by SFandH]

Alm - 6-8-2019 at 06:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
It appears to me that the folks who lost money had investment accounts that invested in securities of some type. These were not savings/checking accounts like you would have at Bancomer, Banamex, etc.

Yes. People purchased investment funds sold by Monex Casa de Bolsa - Mexican brokerage firm that also has US subsidiary to operate on international markets. Monex group consists of "Casa" and "Banco".

It does appear that the "group" employees were a part of the fraud, hacking/changing passwords and moving the funds without authorization, - according to the management. Hard to tell now.

Like somebody said in the comments - "Why in the world in this day and age would anyone trust a "no name" Mexican entity?? You can easily keep your money in the USA and get access to it with no fee ATM withdrawals"

Not to say that you can't lose money with mutual funds sold through big US investment groups, but the level of regulation, overseeing and accountability is different.

Hook - 6-9-2019 at 08:26 AM

"Then you had somebody removing money from these account, which were either an inside job, hacking, or my guess ex-employees with information on these ex-pats, who just changed the passwords, addresses, and emails of the ex-pats.

I'm with Monex, and think the ex-pat investors should take 50% of the blame, for not watching their accounts carefully, and online! "

Amazing that these two statements could be made together. Absolving 50% of the blame for outright theft.

The other article mentioned that clients online ability to check their accounts suddenly became non-existent and their monthly statements stopped coming.

I guess that's the CLIENTS fault, too. :rolleyes:

Hook - 6-9-2019 at 02:04 PM

Let's see, by your same logic:

-If I'm not watching my car 100% of the time and it gets stolen, I'm 50% to blame.

-If I'm not home 100% of the time and my home gets robbed, I'm 50% to blame.

Wait a minute, these aren't comparable situations. MONEX WAS ACTUALLY PAID BY THESE INDIVIDUALS TO INVEST THEIR MONEY, NOT HAVE IT STOLEN BY THEM.

My bad.............. :biggrin: