BajaNomad - Ranchos in Sierra San Francisco

Ranchos in Sierra San Francisco

4x4abc - 6-24-2019 at 02:21 PM

does anyone have a map or documentation that shows all ranchos in Sierra San Francisco?

David?

David K - 6-24-2019 at 02:56 PM

Sure... but do you mean all in the past or all currently?

I have Harry Crosby's out of his book, Last of the Californios, c1981.

They include San Casimiro, San Gregorio, San Francisco, Las Calabazas, San Antonio, San Carlos, and Santa Marta.

In Harry's The Cave Paintings of Baja California, c1975, there also is Rancho San Pablo, plus in the newest edition, c1997: San Gregorito, Santa Teresa, El Represo, and Sauzalito.

David K - 6-24-2019 at 03:15 PM

1981 Last of the Californios

1975 Cave Paintings of Baja

1997 Cave Paintings of Baja

4x4abc - 6-24-2019 at 03:52 PM

looking for info (map placement) of rancho San Pedro. Don't remember which map I got the name from.
Crosby has an Arroyo de San Pedro. The beginning of the waterway is where the rancho would be. Makes sense because arroyos get their name from local ranchos and vice versa.
However, in newer maps Arroyo San Pedro has been renamed Arroyo El Tobardillo.
A smaller Arroyo San Pedro is now on Mesa Los Burros (away from rancho San Pedro)
and another small Arroyo San Pedro on Mesa San Pedro nearby

is it all just INEGI confusion?

a well defined trail runs to Visita San Pablo and to Rancho San Gregorio

27°40'50.54"N, 113° 3'26.70"W

David K - 6-24-2019 at 03:54 PM

I have been saying (and showing) for years that INEGI maps are often mixed up. A government creation with no consequences for mistakes.

4x4abc - 6-24-2019 at 04:11 PM

still looking for reference of the names

David K - 6-24-2019 at 05:26 PM

Harald, I asked you a question and posted three maps with ranchos shown. Maybe you could do an overlap of Harry's maps and Inegi maps to compare?

4x4abc - 6-24-2019 at 05:49 PM

the maps are too general - not much information

mtgoat666 - 6-24-2019 at 05:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

does anyone have a map or documentation that shows all ranchos in Sierra San Francisco?

David?

The number of ranches has decreased over the years. Hard times. People have moved away. Even before the decline, ranches came and went. The larger or persistent ones probably made it onto various maps.
You won’t find one master map, you probably got to use several to find names.

[Edited on 6-25-2019 by mtgoat666]

4x4abc - 6-24-2019 at 06:05 PM

I have been studying Baja for 30+ years
the number of ranches has increased
significantly
it is amazing where people try to scratch a living

interesting are the name changes
in the mission era ranchos had names of saints - San Pedro etc
starting with the early 1800's non saint names were favorites - Prosperidad etc

David K - 6-25-2019 at 08:03 AM

Yes, ranches everywhere... but some of the older ones are gone. The kids don't want that life so they move to the city. A few do, and then there is corporate money. Have you seen how old Rancho Arenoso has become a big modern farm (out from El Rosario)?

Los Pinos follows the water

thebajarunner - 6-26-2019 at 02:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Yes, ranches everywhere... but some of the older ones are gone. The kids don't want that life so they move to the city. A few do, and then there is corporate money. Have you seen how old Rancho Arenoso has become a big modern farm (out from El Rosario)?

That ranch had Pinos buses parked there last time we went by.
Those hombres are insatiable....
Find the water, crank out the Northbound goods.

As to the Sierra ranches
We were up there a couple years ago and they had let herds of goats run wild
It was pure desolation of the landscape for miles, those things will even eat rocks and fence posts.

BajaRat - 7-3-2019 at 04:24 PM

Rancho Guadalupe is operational and not listed on either map ,
Just to the north of Rancho San Francisco.
Lionel :cool:

[Edited on 7-3-2019 by BajaRat]

INEGI

David K - 7-3-2019 at 04:56 PM

wilderone - 7-23-2019 at 08:16 AM

On the (old) big topo map book, San Pedro is denoted between Mesa San Pedro (So.) and rio or Arroyo San Pedro (No.) El Tobardillo is a different rio/arroyo to the West of San Pedro. Mesa Las Mulas is slightly NE of El Tobardillo (and NW of San Pedro). San Pedro is about 7 mi. east of the end of the Prosperidad road. Pg. B122, C3. About 113.7' x 27.46'. David K can blow it up for you. On that map, the names of the ranchos are not denoted as "Rancho [ ]", but simply the name.

AKgringo - 7-23-2019 at 08:37 AM

David, what are the contour line intervals on the INEG map? It looks like 50 meters, but I have been confused before!

David K - 7-23-2019 at 08:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone

On the (old) big topo map book, San Pedro is denoted between Mesa San Pedro (So.) and rio or Arroyo San Pedro (No.) El Tobardillo is a different rio/arroyo to the West of San Pedro. Mesa Las Mulas is slightly NE of El Tobardillo (and NW of San Pedro). San Pedro is about 7 mi. east of the end of the Prosperidad road. Pg. B122, C3. About 113.7' x 27.46'. David K can blow it up for you. On that map, the names of the ranchos are not denoted as "Rancho [ ]", but simply the name.

Here is the area and followed by a close up over San Pedro from the Baja Topo Atlas:

David K - 7-23-2019 at 08:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

David, what are the contour line intervals on the INEG map? It looks like 50 meters, but I have been confused before!

Good question! Without digging up that map off their website, let me just say I did take the elevation at San Francisco de la Sierra and it was 3,640' or 1,109 meters. If they are at 50 meters, working up from the labeled 750-meter line, it looks like the circle for San Francisco is on the 950-meter line. Maybe that is close enough to 1,100 on this map's scale?

4x4abc - 7-23-2019 at 12:38 PM

INEGI contour lines are 20 meters on the 1:50,000 maps

topo.jpg - 145kB

mtgoat666 - 7-23-2019 at 02:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

David, what are the contour line intervals on the INEG map? It looks like 50 meters, but I have been confused before!

That’s a pretty dopey answer for a map guy!

David K - 7-23-2019 at 03:26 PM

I didn't make the map in question. Why not ask Harald why he used a different map then the one asked about to respond to the question?

4x4abc - 7-23-2019 at 08:13 PM

the 1:250,000 map David used, has 100 meter contour intervals

David K - 7-24-2019 at 08:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

the 1:250,000 map David used, has 100 meter contour intervals

You are talking about the heavy lines and not the thin lines, yes?

The 750-meter labeled line can be followed up and down and around. There is one more heavy line (850 meter?) before San Francisco then 4 thin lines (20 meters each?) giving us 930 meters for San Francisco (3,051'). As I said, my GPS said it was 3,640'... but GPS may not be dead on, either.

4x4abc - 7-24-2019 at 11:15 AM

don't know the scale of the map you are using, David.
can you check on its index?

The 1:250,000 scale map I am using (889463532347_geo G1201 Santa Rosalia) has fat lines every 300 meters and 4 thin lines every 60 meters
so I was wrong with the 100 meter interval earlier quoted

San Francisco de la Sierra is at 1,141 meters

David K - 7-24-2019 at 02:22 PM

1,141? That is pretty close to my GPS reading there, of 1,109 meters.

I will have to search for that map on Inegi as I didn't save it... just added it for Nomad interest.