BajaNomad - Baja coastline is eroding. PROFEPA to move Federal zone back?

Plant palm trees just above the water line. There's photographic evidence they stop sea-level rise.

To be a proponent of palm-tree-ology, it helps to get a lobotomy so you can state your case with a straight face

chuckie - 7-8-2019 at 02:59 AM

+10

paranewbi - 7-8-2019 at 05:17 AM

OH, OH, They're back!!

JoeJustJoe - 7-8-2019 at 07:07 AM

From the article: " California coast is disappearing under the rising sea."

Wait a minute, David K. says the sea is not rising, according to his Palm Tree, 1970 and current photos, showing no changes.

motoged - 7-8-2019 at 09:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

....
To be a proponent of palm-tree-ology, it helps to get a lobotomy so you can state your case with a straight face

I would rather have a free bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.... :biggrin:

The planet is changing....hang on for the ride....watch it's demise from the comfort of your own home...

"You don't need a weatherman to see which way the wind blows"

SFandH - 7-8-2019 at 10:04 AM

Joseph Goebbels, not Karl Marx.

[Edited on 7-8-2019 by SFandH]

willardguy - 7-8-2019 at 10:14 AM

Joseph Goebbels, not Karl Marx.

[Edited on 7-8-2019 by SFandH]

or as DK always says "don't let facts get in the way of a good story" :rolleyes:

pacificobob - 7-8-2019 at 10:15 AM

Plant palm trees just above the water line. There's photographic evidence they stop sea-level rise.

YES! I have heard of such evidence. Science at it's best.

pacificobob - 7-8-2019 at 10:19 AM

Joseph Goebbels, not Karl Marx.

[Edited on 7-8-2019 by SFandH]

Yes, if I hear it often enough, I'll credit the quote to marx

BajaBill74 - 7-8-2019 at 10:25 AM

Oh oh! I just took a look at the palm trees and look what happened.

motoged - 7-8-2019 at 10:52 AM

....

.... Karl Marx had said if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes truth. ....

Marx may have said that, but your boy trump sure puts the theory to work....

and do you have the source for your Marx reference????? .....or is it more of your fake news

motoged - 7-8-2019 at 10:54 AM

I love it how liberals know more about what N-zis and communists said!

[Edited on 7-8-2019 by David K]

No, David....just educated folks who know their history :light:

SFandH - 7-8-2019 at 11:03 AM

Your reference does say Lenin. Mine says Goebbles. Whatever, it wasn't Marx like you said.

“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”, is a law of propaganda often attributed to the N-zi Joseph Goebbels.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-th...

bkbend - 7-8-2019 at 11:49 AM

It doesn't matter who said what or whether it's lies or truth. The article OP posted above is just a teaser. Here's the full article https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-sea-level-rise-califo...

Again, it doesn't matter if the coastline is disappearing due to 'normal' erosion or whether it's due to rising sea levels due to 'global warming'. If I were a taxpayer in California I'd be peeed at what some people and quite a few politicians want to spend your money on. There are fight and flight options, both involving spending huge amounts of state money to subsidize folks living (by choice) along the coastline.

mtgoat666 - 7-8-2019 at 01:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

....

.... Karl Marx had said if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes truth. ....

Marx may have said that, but your boy trump sure puts the theory to work....

and do you have the source for your Marx reference????? .....or is it more of your fake news

It was just a friendly discussion, and I knew it was a communist who came up with that theory. When I checked, it was credited to Lenin (who followed Marx). N-zis (German Socialist Party) may have copied that theory, but they didn't invent it.

The only fake news is that lie about sea levels rising threatening people's lives. New hotels are being built on the Maldives. Isn't that odd that a bank would front money on a project that is sure to be doomed? Oh wait, the leftist media said the Maldives would be underwater before now! Who spews fake news?

Oh, you mean the floating hotel and the underwater hotel, eh? Pretty sure your “new hotel” argument does not hold water! :lol:

[Edited on 7-8-2019 by mtgoat666]

motoged - 7-8-2019 at 02:00 PM

....

.... Karl Marx had said if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes truth. ....[/rquote]

It was just a friendly discussion, and I knew it was a communist who came up with that theory. .....

The only fake news is that lie about sea levels rising threatening people's lives. New hotels are being built on the Maldives. Isn't that odd that a bank would front money on a project that is sure to be doomed? Oh wait, the leftist media said the Maldives would be underwater before now! Who spews fake news?

"just a friendly discussion" ????

Suggesting folks with a different political slant are communists and/or N-zis???? :?:

Worm your way out of that innuendo ...

motoged - 7-8-2019 at 06:24 PM

.... as it is in your state.

Namaste

Lee - 7-8-2019 at 06:34 PM

Nope, not what I said at all.
That's okay Ged.
I hear pot is legal in your country now.
Have a nice day my friend.

Medical pot legal in California for 23 years.

Recreational pot legal in California for 3 years.

Canada behind the curve on this.

What's your point, DK?

(Always get the impression you have some heavy judgment about pot.)

Bajazly - 7-8-2019 at 09:53 PM

I suggest lighting up and mellow the hell out... that's all. Peace, love, and fish tacos!

Been doing that all day here in San Felipe with some oil my buddy left here last trip, thanks Jerry :bounce:

. Trying to get used to the heat, waiting for my fishing date to show up so we can post some dead fish pics later in the week. Sounds like it may be epic so beware.

On a side note, you can always tell when DK has had enough, always outs with the peace, love and fish tacos mantra. :spingrin:

Now back to your regularly scheduled sea level rise debate.

motoged - 7-9-2019 at 10:54 AM

norte - 7-9-2019 at 07:18 PM

Nope, not what I said at all.
That's okay Ged.
I hear pot is legal in your country now.
Have a nice day my friend.

Some think that managed retreat means changing the subject...Hint....read the article David

caj13 - 7-10-2019 at 06:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

From the article: " California coast is disappearing under the rising sea."

Wait a minute, David K. says the sea is not rising, according to his Palm Tree, 1970 and current photos, showing no changes.

Funny how the editor totally ignores the contents of the article to push the sea level fear. Karl Marx had said if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes truth. Clearly, the article says 'erosion' and not sea level rise.

Erosion is the weathering away of the beach, coast, cliffs, etc. from storms, waves, currents. This does happen and we can see it all over. The sea is virtually unchanged in its height (maybe a cigarette's length or two higher) the past 100 years as photos clearly prove.

So 2 things here! Mr trump is obviously a protogee of Mr. Marx, or goebbel, or Lenin - some communist dictator - how quaint! as he clearly demonstrates every day that he believes repeating lies will make them truths!

And David, as I have asked before - I would like to see documentation on those photos - you know - date and time - that way we could actually account for tides! I'm sure you understand thats just a simple way to stop individuals from cherry picking data (in this case photos) to "prove" their point.

And I'm sure thats the way you would want it - right David, after all - whats to stop someone from going to the sacred palm on an extreme high tide, and take a photo then! And then where would you be - you would have unwittingly provided the baseline data proving sea level rise - based on your photo and one other!

sucks when it bites both ways eh David?

and while you are at it David, can you provide me a source of the liberal Media saying the Maldives would be under water by now? I would really like to fact check that story!

[Edited on 7-10-2019 by caj13]

[Edited on 7-10-2019 by caj13]

JoeJustJoe - 7-10-2019 at 08:45 AM

Of course the science is clear that during the last 100 years of so, the sea level has really been increasing compared to the previous 2000 years, but we are all supposed to not believe it, because all the climate scientists are lying, and David K, has the smoking gun, that lone palm tree photo in Baja, that supposedly disproves the seas are rising.

I'm almost speechless to think David K, believes his palm tree is evidence that the sea is not rising due to global warming.
________________________

The ocean never stops moving. When you visit the beach, waves roll in and recede and the tides rise and fall. These are small daily changes that balance out over time. But over the past century, the average height of the sea has risen more consistently—less than a centimeter every year, but those small additions add up. Today, sea level is 5 to 8 inches (13-20 centimeters) higher on average than it was in 1900. That's a pretty big change: for the previous 2,000 years, sea level hadn't changed much at all.

https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-ris...

motoged - 7-10-2019 at 09:17 AM

I am curious as to how many nomads in DK's fan club also deny the effects of global warming/climate change affected by human behaviours.... :coolup:

TMW - 7-10-2019 at 10:21 AM

Why can none of you explain why the sea level has not risen in over 80 years toward the palm trees shown above. You keep blasting David but no one has an explanation.

SFandH - 7-10-2019 at 10:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

Why can none of you explain why the sea level has not risen in over 80 years toward the palm trees shown above. You keep blasting David but no one has an explanation.

Without tidal data the photos are meaningless.

gnukid - 7-10-2019 at 10:41 AM

Clearly there is evidence that humans contribute to green house gases that may affect the environment though their contribution is quite minimal at .04% of total CO2. CO2 is also a minor gas of green house gases which represents only about .04% of total environmental green house gas. Obviously H2O is the most significant at bout 70%.

So, while it is clear that humans do contribute to the atmosphere, their contribution is practically insiginifant. Calls of coming catastrophe are clearly demonstrated to be exaggeration, often assicatiated with proven economic motivation. All research has errors and group motivations can push in ways that in crease errors.

Looking at the past decade of research it is demonstated that Michael Mann and the authors of IPCC as well as it directors were involved in conflating data of various sources and exaggerating the human affect on climate with the "hockey stick" graph that is demonstrably wrong.

So, yes, humans contribute to the environment. it is not clear that human contribution to CO2 drives any change in temperature or change in the atmosphere. In fact temperate leads CO2 changes by hundreds of years.

Moreover, our current measured CO2 parts per million (PPM) in the atmosphere is histrocially lower than prior to the industrial revolution. USA and many developed contries have reduced CO2 output year to year. We still have work to do in China and India.

The greatest influence on temperature is the Sun. Surprise! The sun is more than a millions times larger than the earth and it's minor changes can affect us significantly. Today we have no Solar Sun spots for about 50 days which is a solar minimum, this is itself is significant and will result in some percepatbale change, though it I snot clear what that will be until time has passed to measure the influence.

It is absurd to continue to believe the discredited previous 10-20 years catastrophic IPCC predictions, though things are improving with increased transparency.

Of course over fishing, poisoning of water sources, abusive factory and manufacturing do cause pollution and this must be stopped. It can easily be stopped by changing your buying habits, but no you can not stop breathing and eating to change the climate. Nor does population seem to have a significant affect. One volcanic eruption is more significant that any thing we can do.

If you fly in a plane the CO2 is at 10,000 plus, if you go to meetings the CO2 in the office is 10,000 plus But people don't have measurable negative affects. Growing houses inject CO2 to increase plant growth and overtime our earth has had more diversity and greater plant life resulting in increased animal life diversity with higher CO2 on earth in the past.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/08/the-perils-of-science...

[Edited on 7-10-2019 by gnukid]

BajaRun - 7-10-2019 at 11:02 AM

I have a honest question. I'm not up on all the scientific data with regards to climate change and the effects that human behavior has or doesn't have on the climate. I do think that we should do more to help protect the environment and I have become more aware of this in the past 20 years and have made changes to help.

If I make changes and all others in the modern world make changes will those changes offset the damage that all the other countries continue to do by not making any changes?

gnukid - 7-10-2019 at 11:08 AM

Sea Level Rise varies per area depending on many factors. No overall global acceleration has been demonstrated.

https://climateadj.wordpress.com/2019/05/14/kriged-sea-level...

"The overall linear trend is 2.3 [2.2 to 2.4] mm/yr. The trend from 1960 onward is 2.5 [2.4 to 2.6] mm/yr. The linear trend since 1993 is 2.5 [2.3 to 2.7] mm/yr. This is significantly less than the 3.3 mm/yr trend estimated by satellite altimetry data. No significant acceleration or deceleration was found in either regression."

[Edited on 7-10-2019 by gnukid]

gnukid - 7-10-2019 at 11:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRun

I have a honest question. I'm not up on all the scientific data with regards to climate change and the effects that human behavior has or doesn't have on the climate. I do think that we should do more to help protect the environment and I have become more aware of this in the past 20 years and have made changes to help.

If I make changes and all others in the modern world make changes will those changes offset the damage that all the other countries continue to do by not making any changes?

Short answer, No. But you should still take local personal steps to improve your behavior. The problem is that China and India have much larger populations and they are the worst and don't have a culture that appreciates long term gains, they prefer to gain more today in profits than worry about the future.

Though if we don't buy their products that harm the environment we can help, for example, reduce all plastics, don't buy crap, processed and manufactured foods are bad for you and for the environment.

Grow your food, compost, recycle and know the source of foods and products and know how your garbage is managed and do what you can to reduce the negative impact and increase the positive impact.

It's a garbage and waste war, poisoning of our ecosystem through abusive practices, but good things are happening everywhere.

[Edited on 7-10-2019 by gnukid]

JoeJustJoe - 7-10-2019 at 11:24 AM

Try try Gnukid, but like most global warming deniers, who actually try to back up their denier theories and science with links, they usually fall flat on their face, where their science sources that turn out to be frauds or they work for big oil for big money to deny global warming or that tobacco causes cancer.

Willard Anthony Watts, from "Watts Up With That" is nothing but a college drop out, former radio and TV weatherman, who joined the "Heartland Institute" which is a right-wing think tank, that works to protect big business from lawsuits, for example, the "Heartland Institute" also worked for tobacco company Philip Morris to attempt to discredit the health risks of secondhand smoke and to lobby against smoking bans.
__________________________________
Watts up with that," is also not the most read site on global warming, it's way way down the list.

Willard Anthony Watts is a former radio and TV weatherman and notable global warming denier. He has joined the denialist Heartland Institute as senior fellow for environment and climate.[1] He claims to have subscribed to AGW years ago before he saw the light and became a denier. He also claims that he is (otherwise) an environmentalist. This makes him something of an AGW concern troll.

lthough Watts has made appearances on both Glenn Beck[2] and Sean Hannity's[3] shows, he is, dangerously, among the less nutty of the prominent deniers. Mostly he just repeats the same tired old denier talking points, or pulls out some random data and says, "Look, it's cold somewhere!"

As is typical of media weathercasters, Watts (a college dropout) has no academic training in the physics of climate or related disciplines. Unencumbered by scientific expertise he works by intuition, and intuitively he could not bring himself to accept the documented increase in the U.S. surface temperature record. There had to be a problem with the instrumentation or book keeping — somewhere. Watts explained his story to Glenn Beck. At first he speculated that the composition of new weather shelter paint had interfered with the measuring system:[4

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts

gnukid - 7-10-2019 at 11:26 AM

What's quite interesting is that the polar extemes are quite dynamic and always have been. The general population may be unaware of the highly dynamic and rich environment.

The Antarctic has hundreds of under water volcanoes that create hot water spots resulting in year round warm underwater environments that are rich with sea life, as well as hot pools at the surface.

gnukid - 7-10-2019 at 11:31 AM

When one discusses a topic, it is reasonable to offer differing theories, data, facts, and opinions. Those engaged in discussion may use logic, facts, data, and various forms of critical thinking e.g. logic, grammar, rhetoric, arthritic, geometry, astronomy, music in arguments to further their point and disagreements may remain. But, personal attacks are not logical argument, they present no weight nor should be considered as evidence in discussion. A personal attack is evidence that the proponent doesn't have any logical argument and is using "logical fallacy" in this case a "Ad hominem" attack which must be disregarded.

For example, if I said I saw JJJ drunk in Zone Norte with prostitutes so don't believe him, that would be a logical fallacy carrying no weight in argument.

http://criticalthink.info/$trivium/advresearch.htm

[Edited on 7-10-2019 by gnukid]

SFandH - 7-10-2019 at 11:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

I am curious as to how many nomads in DK's fan club also deny the effects of global warming/climate change affected by human behaviours.... :coolup:

Probably something like this:

"A total of 13% of Americans polled in a 23-country survey conducted by the YouGov-Cambridge Globalism Project agreed with the statement that the climate is changing “but human activity is not responsible at all”. A further 5% said the climate was not changing.

Only Saudi Arabia (16%) and Indonesia (18%) had a higher proportion of people doubtful of manmade climate change."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/07/us-hotbe...

JoeJustJoe - 7-10-2019 at 11:52 AM

Where was the personal attack? You are denying man made global warming aren't you? Your link was dubious at best, although I did mention your source was a college drop out with no science background.

BTW, those hot vents in the arctics have also been debunked as the main cause of global warming, and it's still mankind that is driving global warming by a wide margin, according to most scientists that study this issue and aren't on Exxon's payroll, and that's a fact.

Many here are always trying to discredit me, by claiming all kinds of outrageous claims about me, my favorite is they believe I'm a foreign Muslim, so feel free to join the party.

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

When one discusses a topic, it is reasonable to offer differing theories, data, facts, and opinions. Those engaged in discussion may use logic, facts, data, and various forms of critical thinking e.g. logic, grammar, rhetoric, arthritic, geometry, astronomy, music in arguments to further their point and disagreements may remain. But, personal attacks are not logical argument, they present no weight nor should be considered as evidence in discussion. A personal attack is evidence that the proponent doesn't have any logical argument and is using "logical fallacy" in this case a "Ad hominem" attack which must be disregarded.

For example, if I said I saw JJJ drunk in Zone Norte with prostitutes so don't believe him, that would be a logical fallacy carrying no weight in argument.

http://criticalthink.info/$trivium/advresearch.htm

[Edited on 7-10-2019 by gnukid]

Marinero - 7-10-2019 at 12:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBill74

Oh oh! I just took a look at the palm trees and look what happened.

Damn! It isn't even high tide yet.................

Tioloco - 7-10-2019 at 05:43 PM

Instead of panic and insults... I agree man is negatively affecting the environment. We ALL are. Few of us are hiking to and from Baja to reduce our CO2 emissions. Please explain to me how the dire predictions of sea level rising now is a problem when there is clear evidence that areas such as northern Arizona were once under sea water and there is evidence of sea life in the soil. This all happening prior to the arrival of the modern man.
And again, please refrain from insulting me. I am not as educated as some here are.

Timo1 - 7-10-2019 at 06:36 PM

Or think they are

mtgoat666 - 7-10-2019 at 07:02 PM

The case of a man-made or natural rise in sea level has no merit, only predictions.

I dont think you state such out of stupidity, i think you are just rigid and inflexible, and have a closed mind. Or Perhaps you are fooled or brainwashed by the partisan media you listen to.

JoeJustJoe - 7-10-2019 at 07:39 PM

says the goat who refuses to admit what his eyes show him...
The king (sea levels rising) has no clothes!

Even you David K said you at least agree with nature caused global warming. So where do you think all that arctic melting ice goes?

Melting Arctic Ice will raise the Sea-Level ...............

MrBillM - 7-10-2019 at 08:04 PM

0.000

[Edited on 7-11-2019 by MrBillM]

willardguy - 7-10-2019 at 08:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM

0.000

according to who?

SFandH - 7-10-2019 at 08:16 PM

Floating ice that melts has no effect on sea-level. There's no land mass at the north pole.

It's the land-based ice that melts or breaks off into the sea that's the problem, like the Greenland glacier.

However, a continual decrease in arctic ice is indicative of a warming climate and subsequent land-based ice melt.

Here's something new, published today:
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-ice-edges-greenland-sheet.html

[Edited on 7-11-2019 by SFandH]

willardguy - 7-10-2019 at 09:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM

0.000

according to who?

Anyone with a basic understanding of physics. Like they taught us in junior high school science class...

Though I realize at this point many of us can't remember back that far. :rolleyes:

good job, you figured out how to quote! :lol:

Don Pisto - 7-10-2019 at 10:13 PM

Floating ice that melts has no effect on sea-level. There's no land mass at the north pole.

It's the land-based ice that melts or breaks off into the sea that's the problem, like the Greenland glacier.

However, a continual decrease in arctic ice is indicative of a warming climate and subsequent land-based ice melt.

Here's something new, published today:
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-ice-edges-greenland-sheet.html

[Edited on 7-11-2019 by SFandH]

who said "north pole"? maybe some need a better understanding of the Arctic"?

[Edited on 7-11-2019 by Don Pisto]

paranewbi - 7-11-2019 at 05:11 AM

Started surfing in 1963 in OB San Diego. Spent the 70's surfing north county mostly alone. When I finished making a new board mom would let me ditch school and surf all day without seeing another soul out in the water.
Then the crowds grew over many years. More kooks out in the water. Then came the bathtub effect... more bodies in the tub and the water rises.
Global Kookism is the problem.

chippy - 7-11-2019 at 05:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi

Started surfing in 1963 in OB San Diego. Spent the 70's surfing north county mostly alone. When I finished making a new board mom would let me ditch school and surf all day without seeing another soul out in the water.
Then the crowds grew over many years. More kooks out in the water. Then came the bathtub effect... more bodies in the tub and the water rises.
Global Kookism is the problem.

Global Kookism :lol:

Your story about no. county in the 70s is pure b.s. :light:

I graduated from San Dieguito high in mid 70s. I was surfing NC since I was 11.
Nice fantasy though.

[Edited on 7-11-2019 by chippy]

'60s Surfing

MrBillM - 7-11-2019 at 08:14 AM

While I can't say what (generally) SD North County was like during that time period, living in the South Bay (Manhattan, Hermosa and Redondo Beach) and often going as far south as Oceanside, there were many solitary weekdays and many more where there were only a few others in the water and there were few weekends that saw the sort of crowds seen today.

In nostalgia, one tends to focus on the GOOD times so it's not surprising that those solitary and uncrowded days would be remembered.

And, there were plenty of those in the '60s into the '70s.

BajaRun - 7-11-2019 at 09:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi

Finally a logical explanation that is factually correct !!

4x4abc - 7-11-2019 at 10:31 AM

for all the Davids out there who don't grasp the concept of climate change - and whether we are involved in causing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWXoRSIxyIU&list=PL16649...

and as a bonus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZb2_vcNTg&list=PL16649...

SFandH - 7-11-2019 at 11:40 AM

for all the Davids out there who don't grasp the concept of climate change - and whether we are involved in causing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWXoRSIxyIU&list=PL16649...

and as a bonus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZb2_vcNTg&list=PL16649...

Thanks, interesting videos. That's a good youtube channel, over 6 million subscribers.

paranewbi - 7-11-2019 at 12:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chippy

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi

Global Kookism :lol:

Your story about no. county in the 70s is pure b.s. :light:

I graduated from San Dieguito high in mid 70s. I was surfing NC since I was 11.
Nice fantasy though.

[Edited on 7-11-2019 by chippy]

Not so Chipman...you must have been surfing Swami's on a weekend. Even Pipes had a few guys out only most of the time and they were from San Diego State.
I mainly surfed 6th street reef Del Mar and we kept most anyone away. Remember all the vibes when you went somewhere you weren't a local at? Or maybe you hung out with the bowl hair cut blonde crews from La Jolla...
I was a soul shop (garage) board maker and got to know some of the guys I punched out in the water for paddling up to my break...still good friends.

gnukid - 7-11-2019 at 03:34 PM

Is it hot out here or is Al Gore just blowing hot air

4x4abc - 7-11-2019 at 05:27 PM

The second video of a tree growing from CO2... who is saying that isn't true? Not me.

that is the point with science - there is no choice between true or not. It simply is.
But since we still have some freedom, you can become a member in the flat earth club.

norte - 7-11-2019 at 05:49 PM

All the Davids??? Seriously Harald, picking on me? Is my proving the sea has not risen the past 80 years with photos that effective?

I agree that the climate is changing. It always has and it always will. The sea level is also changing as it has in the past.

It is just changing at such a tiny rate, especially when the alarmists are saying we are polluting so much more.
Just when will the sea actually rise a full foot or more and flood the salt flats, put the palm tree in water, flood the street that beach homes are on?

The second video of a tree growing from CO2... who is saying that isn't true? Not me.

Reminds me of the 50's song...."Why is everybody always picking on me"

David is coming around...used to be no climate change. Now there is a little and the sea is rising a little. Houses are falling in the ocean... a little.

The article pointed out the streets flooded that have beach homes on them... Did you read the article David? or immediately go to tRumps talking points?

Palm Tree Science

MrBillM - 7-11-2019 at 07:47 PM

Having missed much (most ?) of the ongoing Palm Tree Palaver ................ WHAT is it supposed to prove ?

IF the daily conditions on the two dates and times were (impossibly) exactly duplicated (including tidal state), given the incremental (in millimeters) "claimed" rise per decade, the apparent visual difference would likely be ???????

Have I missed something significant in the Palm tide saga ?

4x4abc - 7-11-2019 at 08:19 PM

Nothing has changed in what I know to be true.

that will become a classic

According to NASA Satellite Data ?

MrBillM - 7-11-2019 at 08:24 PM

3.3 mm per year ?

Assuming that identical circumstances impossibility, an inch+ per decade isn't going to "appear" dramatic (or even perceptible ?) in any photo.

Nice try, though.

mtgoat666 - 7-12-2019 at 08:41 AM

sea level change is causing coastal flooding in communities throughout the USA. https://www.npr.org/2019/07/10/739466268/high-tide-flooding-...

when sea level rises, high tides get higher, and storm drains or grades designed for lower sea level no longer work properly and flooding is the result :light:

motoged - 7-12-2019 at 08:50 AM

Nothing has changed in what I know to be true.

that will become a classic

For everyone....and not just the "Davids" (who are not being picked on , but are being invited into the conversation):

"knowing" is an elusive concept, and is a term folks may use to buttress their beliefs...and can be used as a trump card (pun appreciated) to authenticate their beliefs.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/epistemology

Spend a bit of time researching "epistemology" and be curious as to how your beliefs may be limiting (i.e limiting belief systems).

Just sayin' .... :light:

[Edited on 7-12-2019 by motoged]

Obviously

SFandH - 7-12-2019 at 09:34 AM

The earth is at the center of the universe and the sun, planets, and stars revolve around it.

I mean seeing is believing, it's a fact. Prove otherwise.

4x4abc - 7-12-2019 at 09:37 AM

The earth is at the center of the universe and the sun, planets, and stars revolve around it.

I mean seeing is believing, it's a fact. Prove otherwise.

some can't be reached

Structure of the Universe

MrBillM - 7-12-2019 at 10:09 AM

It has been obvious to me since childhood that the earth is at the center of the Universe.

Given that the Universe revolves around ME !

I just ordered a T-Shirt affirming that.

"YES, In Fact, Everything IS About ME !"

To be fair, I ordered one for Mi Esposa, too. After all, she is WITH me.

Seriously, though, this whole "Proof" business is a misdirection intended to justify lack of ANY action. Face it, once conclusive proof arrived, effective remedial action would not likely be effective.

While economics must be a part of the discussion, pursuing actions to moderate and minimize our negative impacts on the environment should be our goal.

When facing the unknown, the question should ALWAYS be: "What are the consequences of being wrong ?"

We KNOW that a variety of Social/Industrial policies are in need of moderation, cleansing and (possibly) elimination.

Filthy COAL would be right at the TOP of that list.

We need to (at least) START heading in the right direction.

BajaRat - 7-21-2019 at 10:27 AM

Nothing has changed in what I know to be true.

that will become a classic

Classic cognitive dissonance

BajaRat - 7-21-2019 at 10:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat

Nothing has changed in what I know to be true.

that will become a classic

Classic cognitive dissonance

David, for the love of Communists and N-zis please stop using the palm tree argument
You can't base static measurements off a dynamic beach sand environment constantly being effected by wind, tide and sea
And as you well know as sea level rises it will simply spill off the sides of the flat earth
This has been going on for over 6 thousand years
Please stop saying can't we all just be nice to each other after insulting someone
Lionel :cool:

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 10:50 AM

Enjoy life, be nice to each other, do something that matters.

You mean like calling people N-zis because they ask you to look beyond what you think you know and beyond your palm tree bubble?

You don't think reducing our carbon output and protecting our planet matters?

Do you look around your neighborhood at successful, affluent families and think that there is no hunger or strife because you don't see it in front of you?

Do you really think that 8 inches of sea-level rise across the oceans would be apparent to the untrained eye on a two-mile coastline?

You are truly the frog in the boiling pot of water. This is fine. It's all fine. Nothing to see here. The palm tree proves it.

SFandH - 7-21-2019 at 10:58 AM

Wait a minute!! Scientists say the sea is maybe 2 or 3 inches higher over the past 1/2 century or so. OF COURSE, those palm tree photos, especially the ones from the highway PROVE the scientists are wrong!!

AND, the prediction that the rate of sea-level rise is going to increase leading to levels that will cause coastal flooding is a HOAX. I mean, Al Gore thinks it true so obviously it can't be.

CO2 is plant food for goodness sakes, it can't be bad.

[Edited on 7-21-2019 by SFandH]

surfhat - 7-21-2019 at 11:08 AM

A single palm tree on the Bay of Conception means zero to the planet wide affects of undeniable man made climate change.

Please try to educate yourself on so much that you don't know, or choose not to know.

Deny the overwhelming % of world wide scientists that are not into looking for funding, but just seek to educate all of us for the future that we may still be able of affect with our actions.

Do we care what we are leaving for future generations or not.

Each of us in the meantime can do what we can and know what is needed to preserve life on this special gem of a planet.

Recently, with all the references to the moon shot fifty years ago, some of those early explorers to this day hope for an expanded consciousness on how special our planet is in the cosmos and how much our mother earth should be defended at all costs.

The most all of us can/should do is to support future generations being able to live in this fragile ecosystem.

This fragility is becoming all too evident. Denying that man has an effect requires buying onto that nature always has the upper hand.

At what point of degradation will it take to convince deniers that man is destroying our livability?

There are so many resources available that provide overwhelming condemning, undeniable evidence that man is responsible for the increase in CO2 and methane being released into the atmosphere.

To those hangers on, please try to better inform yourselves than relying upon single unreliable examples of nothing changing at a particular site over the last fifty years.

There are overwhelming examples available that disprove these suppositions. Do try to update your false assumptions of man not having an effective change in climate.

Our childrens' future is at stake. A lone palm tree on a beach is not proof. Other areas are suffering under such misconceptions. There will be many more to come.

Which side do you want to be known for as history judges the inevitable?

Here I go again calling for some reason in an unreasonable climate of deniability.

BajaRat - 7-21-2019 at 11:13 AM

You are free to believe what you want.
The climate and sea level is not altered from human activity. We are not mightier than Nature.
Things do change, but slowly. We cannot alter the natural changes.
We can make things ugly but we can also clean things up. All is not lost.
Get outside, see for yourself, life is good.

Nuclear Winter, better buy a warm jacket while the're on sale.
Man can't alter nature ? Deforestation ? Radio active waste in our oceans ?

Now , back to beach erosion in Baja California and what's being done in an attempt to combat it.
Lionel :cool:

[Edited on 7-22-2019 by BajaRat]

mtgoat666 - 7-21-2019 at 11:17 AM

CO2 is plant food for goodness sakes, it can't be bad.

Here is what they teach at DK Community College!

A little 2 oz bourbon drink is good, so a my drinking a liter tonite will be better!

Applying 3 oz/gal Round-up herbicide is good, so applying 30 oz/gal will be 10x better!

A fire in my fire place is good, so setting my house on fire is better!

When my daughter was 3 years old she was shorter than the palm tree, now that she is 18 years old she is still shorter than the palm tree, she must not have grown at all!

Shooting stars are so pretty when I go camping, and the bigger ones are more fun to see, so a 2-mile-wide meteor will be super pretty!

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 11:17 AM

http://mentalfloss.com/article/82403/6-ways-humans-influence...

You are free to believe what you want.
The climate and sea level is not altered from human activity. We are not mightier than Nature.
Get outside, see for yourself, life is good.

Really?? We haven't had ANY impact on the planet whatsoever? We haven't had a hand in killing off entire species or destroying entire forests, or contaminating entire bodies of water? Since the Industrial Revolution, human impact and decimation have increased exponentially. Do you truly believe we humans just happily live within nature causing no harm, no foul?

I practically LIVE outside, David. My family lives on 12 acres of wilderness, which we have definitely altered from our human activity after 14 years of living on it. It would take centuries to go back to the way it was before we moved onto it.

I DO see for myself, but I also see the bigger picture. The planet is much larger than the tiny parcel upon which I live. And I've negatively impacted it just by existing upon it. I don't see how you can be willfully ignorant enough to think that you don't.

Life is good? That's a nice sentiment, but I bet more people than not don't feel that way. It may be good for you, but that's kind of the whole point. YOUR tiny view doesn't speak for anyone but YOU. Life is good is a feel groovy vibe that denies the suffering of others because you have the privilege and good fortune to not suffer. It's condescending, at best.

Look beyond your palm tree, friend. Reality is out there and it's not always sunshine and rainbows. We humans have a duty to do the best we can to fix the devastation we've caused. Not just pretend we had nothing to do with it. Gross.

SFandH - 7-21-2019 at 11:22 AM

And we are not mighter than Mother Nature. We can dump a bazillion tons of green house gases into the atmosphere and Mother Nature will say "so what, it's not going to change anything". I know this to be true because I believe it. No way we can affect Mother Nature. She bats last you know.

del mar - 7-21-2019 at 11:22 AM

you're all wasting your time, DK will just claim its all liberal hogwash! :no:

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 11:33 AM

Good gravy, you're thick.
Go to the beach. Yeah, no human-caused issues there.
Go outside. Yeah, no human-caused destruction there.
Life is good.
Be nice.
Do something that matters.
I hope you are teaching your children to be better to the planet than you are.

SFandH - 7-21-2019 at 11:35 AM

Even if it was, you are not so arrogant to think man has the ability to reverse this, do you?
What is the goal of this fear? Suck more taxpayer money out of workers' pockets? Bigger government?

Man has the ability to stop contributing to the increase in global temperature. As to the rest of your drivel:

covfefe

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 11:37 AM

Even if it was, you are not so arrogant to think man has the ability to reverse this, do you?
What is the goal of this fear? Suck more taxpayer money out of workers' pockets? Bigger government?

Man has the ability to stop contributing to the increase in global temperature. As to the rest of your drivel:

covfefe

Get back in that boiling water pot, frog! It's fine and there's nothing we can do! So do nothing! Life is Good, dammit! Good, I say!!

SFandH - 7-21-2019 at 11:42 AM

OK, but I know the vast majority of the world's scientists are conspiring to raise my taxes and put coal miners out of work. Isn't that what scientists do? Hannity says so.

[Edited on 7-21-2019 by SFandH]

surfhat - 7-21-2019 at 11:44 AM

The next great extinction is at hand.

Past history of the previous extinctions is available for any to explore for themselves.

More than ever before the overwhelming evidence of mans' affect is available. CO2 and methane release will serve to be humanities downfall.

There are so many opportunities to learn from unasailable sources that are not seeking funding that should be respected.

Here I go again peeing nto the wind for a select few here to please educate themselves.

SFandH - 7-21-2019 at 11:48 AM

Melting of the permafrost and subsequent methane release.........watch out, this warming trend isn't linear, it's accelerating.

[Edited on 7-21-2019 by SFandH]

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 11:52 AM

Which is it, David?
We've done nothing, so continue to do nothing?
There's nothing we can do, so do nothing?
or...
It's possible that we contributed to this mess, so let's try to do something to stop it or reverse it or slow it and not continue to make it worse?

Seems like the latter would be the definition of what you said earlier, "Do something that matters." Not clucking about how your palm tree proves that all the science is fake news and money-grubbing liberal bull hockey.

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 12:13 PM

If you only read this or that, then you may miss the whole story.
I am not advocating you follow me, believe me, or any such religious fervor. I only suggest you believe your own eyes over some paid proponent who benefits from this hysteria who can only show projections (guesses) of the future and not a shred of visual proof today, because there is none that supports the hysteria but endless proof that supports the fact that the sea is not higher than 100 years ago... and we are finished with the industrial pollution of the 1920s to 1970s.
It's a beautiful day, go to the beach!

YOU only read this or that. I happen to read extensively and critically. You should try it.

I don't place faith on any one person, or any one palm tree. You should try it.

Acknowledging our contribution to climate change isn't hysteria. Looking for solutions to slow it or reverse it isn't hysteria.

Believing one's own eyes isn't Science. Your personal experience isn't proof of anything. It's anecdotal. No scientist or scholar anywhere bases any fact on anecdotal "evidence." You should know that.

It's actually NOT a beautiful day. Temperatures are above average and moisture is way below. It's the middle of Monsoon season and we've had no rain. Plants are wilting, wildfires are raging, people are literally DYING from the extreme heat.

Please stop telling people to just go to the beach. You're being a condescending d. o. u. c. h. e. wad.

[Edited on 7-21-2019 by bajafam]

bajabuddha - 7-21-2019 at 12:45 PM

DK is our very own Joe The Plumber, only it's Dave the Sprinkler Guy. He's smarter than all the pundits and professionals combined, and will soapbox relentlessly (ad nauseum) on his myopic ideals.

The old dawg you can't teach new tricks..... chances are you never could. :smug:

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 12:54 PM

says the guy that went right for N-zi and Communist. *eyeroll*

Science isn't a Liberal Conspiracy. There are plenty of educated conservative scientists and unaffiliated scientists that will also tell you that your palm tree anecdote isn't science.

My children have a better grasp of science than you do.

Please try to learn something. This is a pretty good explanation on how science is "observation beyond our own eyes" ~ it's not scary to educate yourself. I promise.

https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/howscienceworks_05

"Humans cannot directly sense many of the phenomena that science investigates."

An isolated palm tree on the sand does not prove the level of the sea, in any way, shape, or form.

[Edited on 7-21-2019 by bajafam]

[Edited on 7-21-2019 by bajafam]

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 01:23 PM

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html

"Global sea level trends and relative sea level trends are different measurements. Just as the surface of the Earth is not flat, the surface of the ocean is also not flat—in other words, the sea surface is not changing at the same rate globally. Sea level rise at specific locations may be more or less than the global average due to many local factors: subsidence, upstream flood control, erosion, regional ocean currents, variations in land height, and whether the land is still rebounding from the compressive weight of Ice Age glaciers."

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.shtml

Looks like your palm tree doesn't really play much into NOAA's satellite altimetry. Weird.

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/faq.shtml#q4

I was unaware that NOAA is a liberal N-zi communist organization set on taking your money and your good life. If you can present information to support this claim, I'm excited to read it.

KurtG - 7-21-2019 at 01:39 PM

David,
Your palm tree hypothesis is ignoring one vital element. It sits in an area that is geologically active as indicated by the numerous hot springs in the area. Just south of Santa Barbara Cove there is an active underwater thermal vent, the gas bubbles are quite evident if you know where to look. A number of years ago I met a young guy who was studying that area for his Master's thesis, he pointed out to me from the vent location a fault line area that could be clearly seen running north and south. I have no idea if the shore elevation where the palm trees are is changing relative to the sea level but neither do you so it is all just guesswork not anything that can be presented as fact to support your or any other view. I take no position on the matter other than to say this is one where we don't know what we don't know.

pacificobob - 7-21-2019 at 03:32 PM

Ignorance is one thing, being so willfully, and proud of it is a different thing.

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 04:06 PM

I love it how liberals know more about what N-zis and communists said!

:lol:

EDIT: It was Lenin (who was a follower of Marx): https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/vladimir_lenin_132031

[Edited on 7-8-2019 by David K]

I don't get the reasons for N-zi and commie comments... family guy?

You brought it up, bro. Also, I've given you resources to examine, yet you ignore them. Tidal gauges and documentation over 150 years aren't enough to prove that the sea levels are changing, but somehow a palm tree in one singular location is all the evidence we need to disprove these facts.

Sounds like someone doesn't even science, but that can't be you, now, can it?

Again. We, as humans, cannot rely on "our own eyes" as we are subjected to our own personal truths. We are biased to our own anecdotal experience, and that is NOT science. Sorry, fella.

bajafam - 7-21-2019 at 04:14 PM