first road Santa Rosalia - San Ignacio

aside from a connection to Santa Agueda, San Ignacio seems to have played a major role in the life of Santa Rosalia

there was a significant mule trail between the 2 towns, but with automobiles came new challenge - how to get them through the mountains on pathways wide enough for cars

I think I finally found all of the first road between Santa Rosalia and San Ignacio


Attachment: first Santa Rosalia - San Ignacio road.kmz (2kB)
This file has been downloaded 305 times

I find maps interesting
but I don't trust them much
I trust what I see with my own eyes

yes, the white line is the first road for cars between towns

below is the mule trail


Attachment: mule trail.kmz (1kB)
This file has been downloaded 248 times

Quote: Originally posted by MulegeAL

There's another route down the steep section that starts farther to the east. It starts right where your black route kinks up to the NE, at the top of the "hill." Go straight off that turn and there's a 2-track down to the bottom of the canyon. Comes out in the bottom of the big canyon vado. I've been about halfway down, but had to turn back due to rockfall blocking the way. [Edited on 7-10-2019 by MulegeAL]

That is the old transpeninsular main road previous to 1972.

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

that is part of the Boleo road, David

question - does anyone have a high resolution scan of the 1905 Goldman map?
It shows the original mule trail between San Ignacio and Santa Rosalia

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

that mule trail was quite elaborate it could easily be mistaken for Jesuit work

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Interesting us of the word “work.” I don't think jesuits did any work. I think the jesuit’s indigenous slaves did all of the work, and original routes/paths were created by indigenous people long before jesuit imperialist missionaries arrived.

We have a trainer working with our new pup. He keeps biting the wife's feet. The trainer told her to just ignore him, as he's seeking attention. Give him a chew toy and move on. Don't get mad at him, as it will only encourage him.

I can understand that from a 12 week old pup, a little hard for me to understand why a 60+ yo man exhibits the same behavior?






[Edited on 7-11-2019 by JZ]

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

link does not work

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc   that mule trail was quite elaborate it could easily be mistaken for Jesuit work Interesting us of the word “work.” I don't think jesuits did any work. I think the jesuit’s indigenous slaves did all of the work, and original routes/paths were created by indigenous people long before jesuit imperialist missionaries arrived.

Arthur North expedition 1905-1906

Quote: Originally posted by vacaenbaja

David, maybe you can help with this one. In Arthur North's book where he chronicles his near death experience walking through the Viscaino trying to find the trail that led to San Ignacio it turns out that the natives said that he took the road least used. That most people came into town using a different more traveled road. I think that he lost his bearings and never reached the more traveled junction. Would you be able to trace out the route he took vs the route he should have? I remember as they struggled along he found the Camino Real trail by its hallmarks of being out lined somewhat by stones and later on a number of lonely road side graves.

Yes indeed!
I first read Camp & Camino when I was in Jr. college as they had it in their library. I have since read it again maybe twice. I have the original 1910 edition and the 1977 edition with a bunch of photos added by Dr. Michael Mathes.

Here is the map by North of the area:



The dashed lines are trails and along the trail North rode are x's. From Santa Gertrudis he traveled to the gold mines of Calmalli and then to the water hole of Ojo de Liebre (from which Mexican government mappers renamed Scammon's Lagoon). He shows San Pablo on the map along the Camino Real (west or Pacifico branch) between Santa Gertrudis and San Ignacio.

Let me refresh my reading as to why he went to Ojo de Liebre and risked death for lack of water in doing so...

OK, I read the chapters from before getting to Santa Gertrudis, to Calmalli, to Ojo de Liebre, to San Angel, to San Ignacio, to Santa Rosalia.

The reason I couldn't remember why North didn't stick to El Camino Real south from Santa Gertrudis is that he doesn't say!
There is a mention of seeing his first Baja antelope (pronghorn) on the way to Ojo de Liebre, so perhaps that is why he crossed the Antelope Plain (Vizcaino Desert) instead of sticking to the mountains with better water sources?

Oh, Harald, in 1906 the trail left San Ignacio going northeast then worked down to Santa Agueda before reaching Santa Rosalia.

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Oh, Harald, in 1906 the trail left San Ignacio going northeast then worked down to Santa Agueda before reaching Santa Rosalia.

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric

I think North was trying to intercept the trail shown as a dotted line on the map above between the Sierra Pintada and San Ignacio. This trail ran west from San Angel through a pass in the Sierra Santa Clara and down to the coastline near Bahia San Hipolito. The trail no longer exists but in 1905 it was a well known route, used by hundreds of prospectors who had traveled up Harold's pre automobile trail from Santa Rosalia to San Ignacio and then to San Angel. North missed the trail and ended up the Camino Real before he made it to San Ignacio, his guides shouting Agua! Agua!

Rancho San Angel is hard to miss - even back then
unless you find a dry year with less water in Laguna San Ignacio and take route #6
there are no known trails between the west route from San Ignacio to Santa Gertrudis and San Angel
west of San Angel there are several choices - but that is not where he got lost

I am lost

Attachment: Lost.kmz (4kB)
This file has been downloaded 231 times



[Edited on 7-15-2019 by 4x4abc]

What is the white line on the right representing, North's map of the approx ECR route? You know it goes in and out of the canyons and is far from being that straight, yes?

Harry Crosby's 1977 edition ECR map:


My maps using the route data from www.caminorealbaja.com:

revisiting the file I came upon some interesting human activities
Fields? Corral? Walls?

27°44'3.13"N, 113°11'9.71"W

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

all lines represent established trails they represent the concept, David, not the minute details of them your maps are missing the west route from San Ignacio to Santa Rosalia (foothills of the mountains mostly)

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo   Harald, whenever I try to view one of your KMZ files, all I get are lines of code! What do I have to do to actually view the file? (keep it simple please) Thanks! Until Harald sees this, my response is to ask if you have Google Earth loaded because when I click on his file, my Google Earth map opens up and his line is temporarily added in.

Quote: Originally posted by David K

"My lines" are the actual El Camino Real as hiked by Genevieve Mattar and Kevin Branscum (and countless others the past 280 years. It also more closely matches with Harry Crosby's map showing the three routes of El Camino Real north of San Ignacio. Do you have any documentation that your 'further west line' is connected to the mission period? Why would they be further down from the water sources and also not go through their visita of San Pablo?

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Rancho San Angel is hard to miss - even back then unless you find a dry year with less water in Laguna San Ignacio and take route #6 there are no known trails between the west route from San Ignacio to Santa Gertrudis and San Angel west of San Angel there are several choices - but that is not where he got lost I am lost Join the club.. I would guess that right about where the "A" in San Angel is on your map is where North found the trail to San Ignacio. He mentions crossing an arroyo. Arroyo San Angel? After he left the fiesta with the pretty girls in Calmalli to go shoot an antelope (talk about misplaced priorities) he got lost in the Vizcaino and never found water until he got to San Ignacio after departing Ojo de Liebre. Of more interest to me is that he said the route may have been used in 1849 during the California Gold rush as evidenced by old glass bottles he saw on the faint trial. This would be a little known footnote to history; sort of an "Oregon trail" in Baja. So, what would be the next water hole north of Ojo de Liebre without following the old Mission Trail? I can see on the BCA about a day's ride north a place called Laguna el Perdido (Lagoon of the lost) which might say something about the wisdom of taking a short cut across the Vizcaino. bajaric

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Harald and David, On close examination of the KMZ file, while the lines Harald drew were very approximate I can plainly see valid tracks following those lines. Those tracks need to be examined on the ground. I bet is would be hard to follow some because many cross drainages that may be impassable. Good effort Harald. David, Delete all reference to GE and reinstall it, then restart and all will be well.

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric

So, what would be the next water hole north of Ojo de Liebre without following the old Mission Trail? I can see on the BCA about a day's ride north a place called Laguna el Perdido (Lagoon of the lost) which might say something about the wisdom of taking a short cut across the Vizcaino. bajaric

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Harald and David, On close examination of the KMZ file, while the lines Harald drew were very approximate I can plainly see valid tracks following those lines. Those tracks need to be examined on the ground. I bet is would be hard to follow some because many cross drainages that may be impassable. Good effort Harald. David, Delete all reference to GE and reinstall it, then restart and all will be well.