BajaNomad

Mexican Mainland Checkpoint Killings

LancairDriver - 7-23-2019 at 02:23 PM


https://www.foxnews.com/world/utah-couple-mexico-fatally-sho...

Wonder if this was an “official” checkpoint or a shakedown. And why always the red tape and expense in returning a body to the US? Just another way to take advantage of a difficult situation and maximize the peso grab?

mjs - 7-23-2019 at 03:07 PM

Travelling at 3:30 am according to the article. Probably not a legitimate police checkpoint. And not the smartest time of day to travel.

Getting a body out of a foreign country is always a bureaucratic hurdle. How many people travel with their birth certificate? Yet it's hard to get a death certificate if you can't prove someone was born. Then prepare for transport and arrange a flight. The body is not going to just be tossed in the back of a refrigerated truck. This is where the State Dept is supposed to help along with any travel insurance.

Condolences to the survivors.

JoeJustJoe - 7-23-2019 at 03:57 PM

I'm sure "Fox New" will get to the bottom of the deadly double homicide, where an American couple from Utah, and kid were traveling at 3am at night in a Mexican state that has a level 4 travel alert.

If you ask me the information given is to sketchy to tell what really happened.

Lots of questions, why were the victims traveling so late in a car? Was it a real check point, or phony check point? If the check point was real why didn't the couple stop?

Why were they chased and then shot in the head when they didn't stop?

Who shot them, the federal police, local police, military, the new national guard, or cartel thugs?

You don't hear of those types of homicides at Mexican check points, and it sounds like something you would hear from the US border patrol, US Customs, or a US street cop who is after a dark-skinned motorist who didn't stop.
______________________________
From the article:

Efforts by Fox News to clarify the information through the press office of Guerrero Governor Hector Astudillo -- who was quoted in local reports as saying it was a priority to investigate the killings –were unsuccessful.

Timinator - 7-24-2019 at 05:58 AM

CNN has proof Trump was behind the killings, they're sure this time. Basically, if you know your guns you can access which are real checkpoints and which ones are going to try and rob you (or worse). Basically, if you see an AK47, you're going to be robbed. FH's, HK's, and M4's are normally used at real "stops". Know you guns boys and girls. But hey, AK47's are illegal in Mexico so I'm sure there aren't any. That would be against the law.

Timinator - 7-24-2019 at 06:00 AM

Besides, the killings were done by "community organizers" (sound familiar) which again, are completely illegal in Mexico. They just rip people off, or kill them.

JoeJustJoe - 7-24-2019 at 06:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
CNN has proof Trump was behind the killings, they're sure this time. Basically, if you know your guns you can access which are real checkpoints and which ones are going to try and rob you (or worse). Basically, if you see an AK47, you're going to be robbed. FH's, HK's, and M4's are normally used at real "stops". Know you guns boys and girls. But hey, AK47's are illegal in Mexico so I'm sure there aren't any. That would be against the law.


Tim, isn't it too early to be drinking?

How do you expect a couple from Utah, are going to distinguish the kind of weapons that are being used at the checkpoint at 3:30am?

I think you're joking about Trump but in many ways the mass killings of Mexicans at the hands of cartel soldiers, is the fault of the US lax gun laws, because most of the weapons used in the killings come from the US.

The other half of the equation is that Americans have an insatiable appetite for illegal drugs, and the Mexicans cartels are falling all over themselves serving this market.

chuckie - 7-24-2019 at 07:03 AM

I firmly believe that the people killed were Bulgarian agents.

paranewbi - 7-24-2019 at 07:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
CNN has proof Trump was behind the killings, they're sure this time. Basically, if you know your guns you can access which are real checkpoints and which ones are going to try and rob you (or worse). Basically, if you see an AK47, you're going to be robbed. FH's, HK's, and M4's are normally used at real "stops". Know you guns boys and girls. But hey, AK47's are illegal in Mexico so I'm sure there aren't any. That would be against the law.


Tim, isn't it too early to be drinking?

How do you expect a couple from Utah, are going to distinguish the kind of weapons that are being used at the checkpoint at 3:30am?

I think you're joking about Trump but in many ways the mass killings of Mexicans at the hands of cartel soldiers, is the fault of the US lax gun laws, because most of the weapons used in the killings come from the US.

The other half of the equation is that Americans have an insatiable appetite for illegal drugs, and the Mexicans cartels are falling all over themselves serving this market.


Yes, Timinator... your such a fool for trying to educate the deceased in this instance and for not providing some insight for others who may find themselves at a checkpoint, questionable or official, who are viable in the moment.

And JJJ is exactly correct in determining the weapons in the hands of the cartel soldiers have everything to do with lax gun laws in the US which Obama and his Attorney General took advantage of to send a whole lot of guns south of the border :o

And of course, the guy next door snorting coca motivated a killing in the middle of the night in Mexico.

JoeJustJoe - 7-24-2019 at 08:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi  


Yes, Timinator... your such a fool for trying to educate the deceased in this instance and for not providing some insight for others who may find themselves at a checkpoint, questionable or official, who are viable in the moment.

And JJJ is exactly correct in determining the weapons in the hands of the cartel soldiers have everything to do with lax gun laws in the US which Obama and his Attorney General took advantage of to send a whole lot of guns south of the border :o

And of course, the guy next door snorting coca motivated a killing in the middle of the night in Mexico.


There are a couple of things here. The first is that Timinator is such a fool for trying to educate the deceased.( your words)

There is the fact it was probably pitch black, and the victims had no way to tell the kind of weapons the people had at the check point.

My feelings is these guys at the check point were not legitimate, especially if they are chasing down the victims, and shooting them in the head.

That said, perhaps the victims, should have stopped at the check point and took their chances. My advice is if the bad guys have guns and you don't, that you give the bad guys what they want, because things and money can always be replaced, but you and your family can't be replaced if shot dead.

Regarding Fast and furious, that you Paranewbi, are referring to, and blaming Obama and Attorney General, for arming the Mexican cartel is not entirety accurate.

Previous to Fast and Furious, the ATF, and most democrats, believed lax guns laws in the US were responsible for arming the Mexican cartels with assault weapons.

Is was the GOP, and the gun lovers, who denied this, they blamed Russia, and other countries for arming the cartels with weapons, but always insisted the weapons were not coming from the US.

The main thing "Fast and Furious" proved was that yes, lax guns laws especially in Arizona, was fueling the Mexican cartels with weapons, and most of these weapons were coming from the US.

Did "Fast and Furious" go on too long? Yes, it was unconscionable to let it go on that long. But "Fast and Furious" was not behind arming the cartels, that was happening non stop anyway, and at the end of the day, "Fast and Furious" exposed what most of us believed who didn't have their heads in the sand, and that's the US and their lax gun laws were largely responsible for arming the Mexican cartels.
___________________________________________
We need to do something about these lax gun laws, or lack of laws, and ban assault weapons and their equivalent in the USA.

By 2009 the Sinaloa drug cartel had made Phoenix its gun supermarket and recruited young Americans as its designated shoppers or straw purchasers. Voth and his agents began investigating a group of buyers, some not even old enough to buy beer, whose members were plunking down as much as $20,000 in cash to purchase up to 20 semiautomatics at a time, and then delivering the weapons to others.


https://fortune.com/2012/06/27/the-truth-about-the-fast-and-...

chuckie - 7-24-2019 at 10:13 AM

jjj forgot to explain in detail, the role of the Bulgarian agents in this shooting. The rising price of avacados may have created a Cartel all its own, based out of Sofia......

John Harper - 7-24-2019 at 11:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
FH's, HK's, and M4's are normally used at real "stops". Know you guns boys and girls.


Don't you mean FN, as in Fabrique Nationale? Maybe you should follow your own advice, know your guns.

But, I'm just a dumb socialist liberal gun owner from Kalifornia.

John

drzura - 7-24-2019 at 04:53 PM

Looks like that racist Joe has forgotten to take his meds this morning. He's going to have to take a triple dose, and so will his "goat" friend, when Mr. Trump wins another term in office in 2020. :lol:

Paco Facullo - 7-24-2019 at 05:03 PM

If'n ya'all want to see some funny sheet you tube all the reactions of Hilary supporters and news people when the results of the election is coming in.. TOO funny !

Timinator - 7-25-2019 at 04:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
CNN has proof Trump was behind the killings, they're sure this time. Basically, if you know your guns you can access which are real checkpoints and which ones are going to try and rob you (or worse). Basically, if you see an AK47, you're going to be robbed. FH's, HK's, and M4's are normally used at real "stops". Know you guns boys and girls. But hey, AK47's are illegal in Mexico so I'm sure there aren't any. That would be against the law.


Tim, isn't it too early to be drinking?

How do you expect a couple from Utah, are going to distinguish the kind of weapons that are being used at the checkpoint at 3:30am?

I think you're joking about Trump but in many ways the mass killings of Mexicans at the hands of cartel soldiers, is the fault of the US lax gun laws, because most of the weapons used in the killings come from the US.

The other half of the equation is that Americans have an insatiable appetite for illegal drugs, and the Mexicans cartels are falling all over themselves serving this market.



Most the killings in Mexico isn't the fault of the United States. Period. The cartels are killing people for 2 reasons; first their actually "cleaning" up some areas of street trash people because the ineffectual laws there , and, second, it's because of an extremely corrupt county from the top down. There is NO infrastructure of moving money across federal, state and local authorities without most of it going missing. Just pee poor logistics and infrastructure. People take it and gain power because they can.

With guns, education is the answer not stricter laws. Look at Mexico, a prime example. Everybody has a gun, but they're illegal, especially anything over a .38. I do expect people to be educated if they're going to cross through Mexico because if they're not, it just feeds the corrupt system and it grows. So, Joe, you're just wrong.

Timinator - 7-25-2019 at 05:01 AM

I have a beach house in Southern Mexico. I have friends there who travel all over Mexico and, they used to travel into Guatemala from time to time too. They don't do that anymore. Same reason, corrupt and fake checkpoints as you get close to and over the Guatemala border. But forums like this praise the beautiful country and people actually think is safe to do. It's not! My friends and his family have and do blow through checkpoints in Mexico if they are carrying the wrong guns. They have kept themselves from being statistics. Their knowledge of firearms is what has made that possible. If the checkpoint soldiers are carrying an AK47 don't stop, if you don't know what they look like...learn. If you can't be bothered to do that, well, you might just be a liberal. Again, it's education NOT more laws.

[Edited on 7-25-2019 by Timinator]

paranewbi - 7-25-2019 at 05:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi  


Yes, Timinator... your such a fool for trying to educate the deceased in this instance and for not providing some insight for others who may find themselves at a checkpoint, questionable or official, who are viable in the moment.

And JJJ is exactly correct in determining the weapons in the hands of the cartel soldiers have everything to do with lax gun laws in the US which Obama and his Attorney General took advantage of to send a whole lot of guns south of the border :o

And of course, the guy next door snorting coca motivated a killing in the middle of the night in Mexico.


There are a couple of things here. The first is that Timinator is such a fool for trying to educate the deceased.( your words)

There is the fact it was probably pitch black, and the victims had no way to tell the kind of weapons the people had at the check point.

My feelings is these guys at the check point were not legitimate, especially if they are chasing down the victims, and shooting them in the head.

That said, perhaps the victims, should have stopped at the check point and took their chances. My advice is if the bad guys have guns and you don't, that you give the bad guys what they want, because things and money can always be replaced, but you and your family can't be replaced if shot dead.

Regarding Fast and furious, that you Paranewbi, are referring to, and blaming Obama and Attorney General, for arming the Mexican cartel is not entirety accurate.

Previous to Fast and Furious, the ATF, and most democrats, believed lax guns laws in the US were responsible for arming the Mexican cartels with assault weapons.

Is was the GOP, and the gun lovers, who denied this, they blamed Russia, and other countries for arming the cartels with weapons, but always insisted the weapons were not coming from the US.

The main thing "Fast and Furious" proved was that yes, lax guns laws especially in Arizona, was fueling the Mexican cartels with weapons, and most of these weapons were coming from the US.

Did "Fast and Furious" go on too long? Yes, it was unconscionable to let it go on that long. But "Fast and Furious" was not behind arming the cartels, that was happening non stop anyway, and at the end of the day, "Fast and Furious" exposed what most of us believed who didn't have their heads in the sand, and that's the US and their lax gun laws were largely responsible for arming the Mexican cartels.
___________________________________________
We need to do something about these lax gun laws, or lack of laws, and ban assault weapons and their equivalent in the USA.

By 2009 the Sinaloa drug cartel had made Phoenix its gun supermarket and recruited young Americans as its designated shoppers or straw purchasers. Voth and his agents began investigating a group of buyers, some not even old enough to buy beer, whose members were plunking down as much as $20,000 in cash to purchase up to 20 semiautomatics at a time, and then delivering the weapons to others.


https://fortune.com/2012/06/27/the-truth-about-the-fast-and-...


"There are a couple of things here. The first is that Timinator is such a fool for trying to educate the deceased.( your words)"

Joe your so busy viewing life through foggy glasses that you miss sarcasm when it's in front of you. Of course Timinator wasn't educating the dead! He was offering a hand up when operating in the moment at a suspicious road stop.

Here's another tip from a seasoned road cruiser as I have driven over one hundred thousand miles in Mexico and Central America; If a vehicle goes past while coming at you, and then that vehicle re-appears to pass you from behind and disappears down the road ahead, take care (especially in the district of Guerrero and Michoacan) as there's a good chance they will throw something (tree limb) in the road to create a block and cause mayhem upon you.

OR...ignore advice like this and Timinator's and be a sorry idiot.


weebray - 7-25-2019 at 08:51 AM

Did you open this thread thinking you were going to learn about what went down?? Ha! Move along folks, nothing happening here.

JoeJustJoe - 7-25-2019 at 09:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi  


Joe your so busy viewing life through foggy glasses that you miss sarcasm when it's in front of you. Of course Timinator wasn't educating the dead! He was offering a hand up when operating in the moment at a suspicious road stop.

Here's another tip from a seasoned road cruiser as I have driven over one hundred thousand miles in Mexico and Central America; If a vehicle goes past while coming at you, and then that vehicle re-appears to pass you from behind and disappears down the road ahead, take care (especially in the district of Guerrero and Michoacan) as there's a good chance they will throw something (tree limb) in the road to create a block and cause mayhem upon you.

OR...ignore advice like this and Timinator's and be a sorry idiot.




Paranewbi, so you think Timinator, was using sarcasm? Did he tell you that Paranewbi?

If you ask me, I think that you Paranewbi, and Timinator, are probably heavy drinkers, and so I don't think very much of both of yours Water Mitty fantasies meets MadMax on the highways of Mexico.

The only thing I will say is that if you choose to run a road block, keeping going and never stop until you reach a safe destination.

Timinator - 7-25-2019 at 10:31 AM

Pretty much the only thing wrong with this Forum is you Joe. Just so blind, deaf and full-blown, liberal dumb.

Marc - 7-25-2019 at 12:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Pretty much the only thing wrong with this Forum is you Joe. Just so blind, deaf and full-blown, liberal dumb.


The guy must be home all day. He compositions read like never ending boilerplate. I don't think he has ever been south of TJ. Never a trip report or a picture and little or no regard for the USA.


JoeJustJoe - 7-25-2019 at 01:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Marc  


The guy must be home all day. He compositions read like never ending boilerplate. I don't think he has ever been south of TJ. Never a trip report or a picture and little or no regard for the USA.



Oh no not another boring one-line wonder trying to discredit and troll me.

Ok I'm game.

So you live in San Francisco, Palm Springs, and have been in the Navy?

Didn't the Village People, write a recruiting song, "In the Navy?"

Didn't Winston Churchill, once talk about the British navel tradition being nothing but "run, sodomy, and the lash?" I bet the US Navy had a similar tradition?????

Now write a real trip report that doesn't involve dirt roads and one liners.

Enrique2012 - 7-25-2019 at 03:43 PM

JJJ - "If you ask me..."

Haven't you noticed that nobody ever asks you?

Hook - 7-25-2019 at 08:15 PM

The pathetic, non-life of Jay Salman continues to be the demise of this board.

Bajazly - 7-25-2019 at 08:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  


Now write a real trip report!!!



Your turn. Go ahead, I dare you! Double dog dare you!

[Edited on 7-26-2019 by Bajazly]

JoeJustJoe - 7-25-2019 at 09:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
The pathetic, non-life of Jay Salman continues to be the demise of this board.



Hook try prune juice, it might loosen you up.

BajaTed - 7-26-2019 at 11:48 AM




Just like the hood, have situational awareness at all times.
Here's the situation:
https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/social-media-poll-finds-76-...

dorado50 - 7-26-2019 at 01:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
The pathetic, non-life of Jay Salman continues to be the demise of this board.





definitely in agreement here. this guy is a total bummer. get me out of here.

JoeJustJoe - 7-28-2019 at 10:53 AM

OK back to the topic, the family has spoken, and a lot of details have been cleared up, but most of the information is coming from the traumatized kid, who was not shot as has first been reported.

The male victim was from Utah, but the wife, was Mexican, and she apparently knew the check point was not legitimate, and she made the call to make a run for it, but they were caught, robbed, and killed

The male victim usually a cautious type and his wife still made the decision to travel at night in area of Mexico, where the US State department has issued a travel warning, but it's believed the victims may have not known about the travel warning in this area of Mexico.

The Mexican authorities are searching for the bad guys.
__________
Family responds after Utah man and wife killed in Mexico

SALT LAKE CITY — The family of a man from South Jordan who was killed in Mexico last week has released a statement in response to his tragic death.

Paul Nielsen, 52, and his wife Janet Vázquez, 44, were traveling through the state of Guerrero early in the morning on July 18 on their way to a vacation they had planned in Zihuatanejo.

At some point in their trip, they were shot and killed. Their 12-year-old son Kevin was in the car with them, but the family said he was not shot, as some media outlets initially reported. He received minor injuries and is living with family.

https://fox13now.com/2019/07/27/family-responds-after-utah-m...