BajaNomad

Corrupt govt and real estate in baja!

mtgoat666 - 8-19-2019 at 08:56 PM

Under Robles, government sold off 1,600 hectares of protected areas in Baja
The two coastal nature reserves had been purchased by a conservation group

Published on Monday, August 19, 2019

Details have emerged of another case of alleged corruption involving former cabinet secretary Rosario Robles.

The previous federal government sold off two coastal nature reserves in Baja California at bargain prices without the knowledge of a conservation group that owned them.

The sale of more than 1,600 hectares of land in the Punta Mazo and Monte Ceniza national reserves, both of which are located near San Quintín in Ensenada, occurred while Robles was secretary of agrarian development and urban planning in the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) government led by Enrique Peña Nieto.

Robles is currently in preventative custody as she awaits trial on charges that, through omission, she allowed over 5 billion pesos to be misappropriated from the federal budget while she was leading the Secretariat of Social Development and later, the Secretariat of Agrarian Development and Urban Planning.

The two reserves were subdivided into 10 lots and sold to nine individuals, one of whom was Héctor Bojórquez, a former leader of the National Farmers Confederation, which has close ties to the PRI.

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/government-sold-off-1600-he...

Where's the Tacos?

Lobsterman - 8-20-2019 at 05:11 AM

What does this have to do with BN's philosophy of tacos,....... This is just another attempt by goat to stir the pot on BN with negative stories that having nothing to do with BNers. Who really gives a chit! You are a foreigner in Mexico who is not allowed to engage in political rebel rousing or you will be expelled.

With Joe gone goat must be looking to take his place with negative posts whose purpose is to get us to argue amongst ourselves.

[Edited on 8-20-2019 by Lobsterman]

paranewbi - 8-20-2019 at 05:24 AM

There's plenty of 'stirring the pot information' on MND and even 7 articles a month free if you're into it.
I review the free stuff because I'm interested in the mainland and the things going on there.

Lobsterman is right in calling out trolling posts that regurgitate old news and what is already known as a risk factor in purchasing land in Baja though.

SFandH - 8-20-2019 at 05:58 AM

I think it's a current, newsworthy item, not trolling at all. Especially because the corrupt politician is in jail. That's progress!

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/ex-cabinet-secretary-robles...


[Edited on 8-20-2019 by SFandH]

paranewbi - 8-20-2019 at 06:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
I think it's a newsworthy item. Especially because the corrupt politician is in jail. That's progress!

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/ex-cabinet-secretary-robles...


"In May 2018, a team of researchers from the conservation group discovered that the San Quintín kangaroo rat was still living in the Monte Ceniza reserve. The rodent was previously thought to be extinct."

I guess if Goat really wanted to stir the pot, he would have pointed to the demise of the rats.

SFandH - 8-20-2019 at 06:16 AM

Is your problem with the news or with Goat?

bajatrailrider - 8-20-2019 at 06:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman  
What does this have to do with BN's philosophy of tacos,....... This is just another attempt by goat to stir the pot on BN with negative stories that having nothing to do with BNers. Who really gives a chit! You are a foreigner in Mexico who is not allowed to engage in political rebel rousing or you will be expelled.

With Joe gone goat must be looking to take his place with negative posts whose purpose is to get us to argue amongst ourselves.

[Edited on 8-20-2019 by Lobsterman]
. ............ Why upset with mt he is Joe's brother just a stupid tourest. A Baja wanna be that only gives worthless info

norte - 8-20-2019 at 07:20 AM

Interesting how Baja Nomads eat their own.

azucena - 8-20-2019 at 07:37 AM

What MTG posted is legitimate news about the happenings in Baja. Why must people here be so discourteous about a informational post? And levy personal insults? The intolerance here is staggering.

It seems anyone who posts things a certain group does not like gets banned,or at least flayed while others are allowed to continue to be rude and nasty.

I live part of the year in Baja and have for many years. I for one , keep track of what is going on there on many fronts so I am aware and in touch with what is happening from as many angles as possible.

Y'all want to drink beer, eat tacos and call it good , fine. Others are interested in what is going on in Baja.

Hook - 8-20-2019 at 07:38 AM

I think it's a legitimate topic of discussion on this board. And it might directly affect the recreational future of Nomads. You guys are in your overreacting-to-liberals mode this morning.

Unlike JJJ, at least he isn't twisting it into blaming Americans, as he always does.

Make that always did!

This is a big deal. The outcome of the dispute over the land sale is still not decided. The alleged perpetrator hasn't been convicted or set free by buying off a judge with some of the previously reported disappearance of five million pesos during her term in office. This is still news.

It's yet another opportunity for Mexico to show the world that they are making attempts at curbing corruption in the government. I applaud them.

weebray - 8-20-2019 at 07:47 AM

I have my own list of onerous posters. I normally just don't read their twaddle. To keep your BP down I suggest you try it.

Paco Facullo - 8-20-2019 at 07:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
I think it's a newsworthy item. Especially because the corrupt politician is in jail. That's progress!

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/ex-cabinet-secretary-robles...


"In May 2018, a team of researchers from the conservation group discovered that the San Quintín kangaroo rat was still living in the Monte Ceniza reserve. The rodent was previously thought to be extinct."

I guess if Goat really wanted to stir the pot, he would have pointed to the demise of the rats.


Them's must be some awfully tasty mice ????

.

4x4abc - 8-20-2019 at 10:35 AM

it bit long - but here is the real story
no Trump Fiction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2luYfDROR9Q&fbclid=IwAR1...

mtgoat666 - 8-20-2019 at 11:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
it bit long - but here is the real story
no Trump Fiction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2luYfDROR9Q&fbclid=IwAR1...


There are 2 sides to every story....

David K - 8-20-2019 at 11:50 AM

Did you watch the video?
I did a while back plus I got the story from Ron (BajaGringo/Talk Baja) when he hosted my Baja Extreme Tour in 2016. I think Fishbuck's name came up and Ron said had warned Mike that the land he was investing in didn't belong to the sellers... something like that.
Anyway, yes, two sides but one side got title from corrupt officials on land that was never available. See the video.

mtgoat666 - 8-20-2019 at 01:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Did you watch the video?
I did a while back plus I got the story from Ron (BajaGringo/Talk Baja) when he hosted my Baja Extreme Tour in 2016. I think Fishbuck's name came up and Ron said had warned Mike that the land he was investing in didn't belong to the sellers... something like that.
Anyway, yes, two sides but one side got title from corrupt officials on land that was never available. See the video.


Video and talk baja dude are not impartial, clearly are biased, though he does a good job of appearing unbiased (they say looks can be deceiving)

The result of contract law disputes is often not morally right.
In my world view, environmental protection is morally right.

Archie - 8-20-2019 at 01:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  

In my world view, environmental protection is morally right.


Then you´re in for a rude awakening when you learn that the only conservation that Terra Peninsular wants its about other people's money... for themselves.

thebajarunner - 8-20-2019 at 04:40 PM

Scary part of this story is not the "corrupt government" part.
Anyone surprised by that is on the wrong forum board.

The scary part is that a "Nature reserve" supposedly owned by an environmental group can be re-sold to a private party, who can then turn around and re-sell to yet another party.

That is why we have title companies.

As they say, "Only invest in Mexico what you can afford to lose"

Hook - 8-20-2019 at 04:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
Scary part of this story is not the "corrupt government" part.
Anyone surprised by that is on the wrong forum board.

The scary part is that a "Nature reserve" supposedly owned by an environmental group can be re-sold to a private party, who can then turn around and re-sell to yet another party.

That is why we have title companies.

As they say, "Only invest in Mexico what you can afford to lose"


Please give us an example where this happened in Mexico in the past. I can't recall one.

Just because something "can/could" happen doesn't mean that it's likely. In this case, it appears the environmental group is fighting to retain ownership.

What's more likely to can/could happen is that a Mexican political figure can grease the skids for selling land to a developer. Now, THAT happens all the time.

Punta Banda!!

thebajarunner - 8-20-2019 at 04:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
Scary part of this story is not the "corrupt government" part.
Anyone surprised by that is on the wrong forum board.

The scary part is that a "Nature reserve" supposedly owned by an environmental group can be re-sold to a private party, who can then turn around and re-sell to yet another party.

That is why we have title companies.

As they say, "Only invest in Mexico what you can afford to lose"


Please give us an example where this happened in Mexico in the past. I can't recall one.

Just because something "can/could" happen doesn't mean that it's likely. In this case, it appears the environmental group is fighting to retain ownership.

What's more likely to can/could happen is that a Mexican political figure can grease the skids for selling land to a developer. Now, THAT happens all the time.



Lack of title companies cost a lot of folks their dreams
"Can/Could" was more than 'likely'
It really happened
Someone got paid off and lots of folks got screwed...

Hook - 8-20-2019 at 06:57 PM

Punta Banda was a nature reserve? Who knew???

You seem a bit confused

thebajarunner - 8-20-2019 at 08:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
Punta Banda was a nature reserve? Who knew???


"Nature reserve" was rather incidental to the original posts, which dealt with "Government Corruption" and land sold with no apparent regard to real ownership (we call that 'title' in the trade)

your question>>>Please give us an example where this happened in Mexico in the past. I can't recall one.

And my answer, Punta Banda, a classic example of where someone, obviously with some serious government backing, was able to circumvent title, deeds, ownership, etc. and cost a lot of people a lot of money.

Alm - 8-21-2019 at 10:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
I think it's a current, newsworthy item, not trolling at all. Especially because the corrupt politician is in jail. That's progress!

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/ex-cabinet-secretary-robles...

x2.
Keeping one's head in sand definitely helps staying positive :). Not sure that such a, er... position is what this BN forum has been about. At some times there is more of this, though.

Hook - 8-21-2019 at 11:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
Punta Banda was a nature reserve? Who knew???


"Nature reserve" was rather incidental to the original posts, which dealt with "Government Corruption" and land sold with no apparent regard to real ownership (we call that 'title' in the trade)

your question>>>Please give us an example where this happened in Mexico in the past. I can't recall one.

And my answer, Punta Banda, a classic example of where someone, obviously with some serious government backing, was able to circumvent title, deeds, ownership, etc. and cost a lot of people a lot of money.


Yeah, I'm sure the Goat was completely uninterested in the nature reserve aspect of the story....... :rolleyes:

Do you REALLY think that someone who has been on this board for so long and with so many posts as I, dismissed the idea of a corrupted land sale in Mexico? Of course they happen.

You implied that the custodians of the nature reserve land could have turned around and sold it. You implied that was the biggest issue in this story.

I asked for a previous example where a nature custodian in Mexico turned around and sold the land they were supposed to protect.

Still waiting on that.........

bajaric - 8-22-2019 at 07:18 AM

Granting land title at a low cost is not necessarily "corruption". Mexico has a process that allows a citizen to "homestead" on "bald land" where no one has established ownership and acquire title to the land from the government at little or no cost. I knew a Mexican guy that got some land in Tijuana that way for free and built a house on it. This process dates back to the Mexican revolution when the big haciendas were seized by the revolutionary government and redistributed to the landless people of Mexico. The question here is if someone already had title to the land in question. There seems to be some dispute about that. I wonder how much land in Baja is still Government-owned.

JZ - 8-22-2019 at 07:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
it bit long - but here is the real story
no Trump Fiction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2luYfDROR9Q&fbclid=IwAR1...


Interesting, but I wish he'd have spent a little money to have someone narrate it.




[Edited on 8-22-2019 by JZ]

JZ - 8-22-2019 at 07:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman  
What does this have to do with BN's philosophy of tacos,....... This is just another attempt by goat to stir the pot on BN with negative stories that having nothing to do with BNers. Who really gives a chit! You are a foreigner in Mexico who is not allowed to engage in political rebel rousing or you will be expelled.

With Joe gone goat must be looking to take his place with negative posts whose purpose is to get us to argue amongst ourselves.

[Edited on 8-20-2019 by Lobsterman]


This topic is appropriate for the board.

chuckie - 8-22-2019 at 09:21 AM

BEARS EARS!

mojo_norte - 8-22-2019 at 09:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman  
What does this have to do with BN's philosophy of tacos,....... This is just another attempt by goat to stir the pot on BN with negative stories that having nothing to do with BNers. Who really gives a chit! You are a foreigner in Mexico who is not allowed to engage in political rebel rousing or you will be expelled.

With Joe gone goat must be looking to take his place with negative posts whose purpose is to get us to argue amongst ourselves.

[Edited on 8-20-2019 by Lobsterman]


This topic is appropriate for the board.


ditto 2x

BajaRat - 8-22-2019 at 11:40 AM

Without a clear federal title you are on borrowed time
Do your homework
Lionel :cool:

BajaRat - 8-22-2019 at 11:46 AM

Your Municipal seat has copies of those documents if the parcel is federally titled and who it is tilted to
Great article and YouTube video, thanks for that
Lionel :cool:

Hook - 8-22-2019 at 07:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
BEARS EARS!


Not in Mexico. Never administered by an environmental organization.

Still trying to take us off on a tangent, I see

thebajarunner - 8-22-2019 at 07:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
BEARS EARS!


Not in Mexico. Never administered by an environmental organization.


You must have been frightened by an "environmental organization" at some time in the past,
It seems to be an obsession...

Hook - 8-23-2019 at 09:25 AM

I'm more frightened by people who are unaware of what they actually wrote and defend it incorrectly.

No, I generally support environmental organizations. Always have. That's why I demanded proof of an environmental organization in Mexico selling property that was given over to their custody.

Sometimes they can be guilty of excesses, but corporations "Trump" them on that.

Speaking of Bears Ears, I spent some time there just before it was declared a national monument. It's fairly nice area, if you ignore all the damage that grazing cattle has done in the nicest, shaded areas.

But when it was declared a new national monument, I went, "yer kidding, right?" It just doesnt seem to merit that distinction when I compare it to so many other national monuments. Even large sections of Grand Staircase are kind of "meh", IMO.

But I really dont want to see these areas opened up to mining. That's probably the biggest motivation for the forces behind Trump.

One more attempt to clarify

thebajarunner - 8-23-2019 at 03:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
Punta Banda was a nature reserve? Who knew???


"Nature reserve" was rather incidental to the original posts, which dealt with "Government Corruption" and land sold with no apparent regard to real ownership (we call that 'title' in the trade)

your question>>>Please give us an example where this happened in Mexico in the past. I can't recall one.

And my answer, Punta Banda, a classic example of where someone, obviously with some serious government backing, was able to circumvent title, deeds, ownership, etc. and cost a lot of people a lot of money.


Yeah, I'm sure the Goat was completely uninterested in the nature reserve aspect of the story....... :rolleyes:

Do you REALLY think that someone who has been on this board for so long and with so many posts as I, dismissed the idea of a corrupted land sale in Mexico? Of course they happen.

You implied that the custodians of the nature reserve land could have turned around and sold it. You implied that was the biggest issue in this story.

I asked for a previous example where a nature custodian in Mexico turned around and sold the land they were supposed to protect.

Still waiting on that.........


In the interest of peace and grace.....
My sentence "The scary part is that a "Nature reserve" supposedly owned by an environmental group can be re-sold to a private party, who can then turn around and re-sell to yet another party." Was not intended to have any implication nor reference to the ownership by any specific entitiy

It could just have easily said "...supposedly owned by a dairy farm" or whatever.

I was trying to focus on the lack of integrity in Mexican chain of title, not hone in on any particular group.

Interestingly, were that same situation happening in the US there is little doubt that an environmental group would have put land use restrictions into the actual deed. These restrictions "run with the land" as we say in the business. I have been burned more than once by poor reading of deed restrictions, which resulted in some rather hairy negotiations to get them changed (which can only be done by the one who placed them originally)

I used Punta Banda as an example of a place that the title to the properties was clearly "clouded" and a good title company and a careful reading of the deeds might have avoided some very expensive and painful results. (I use the words "might have" with some caution here- still could have been a real tangle given the ejido element which was entangled into the deal.)
Hope this helps clarify what I was trying to say. If I could re-write the post I would substitute the words "rightful owner" for the words "environmental group"

Cheers....

weebray - 8-24-2019 at 08:15 AM

In Mexico, as always, justice will be served. On a platter. To the highest bidder.