BajaNomad - What is a reasonable drive time from San Felipe to Bahia de los Angeles in late December?

What is a reasonable drive time from San Felipe to Bahia de los Angeles in late December?

Mr. Bills - 9-10-2019 at 10:49 AM

Please excuse the question if it has been asked and answered anytime since the storms of 2018 washed out sections of the road.

I am trying to calculate a reasonable drive time from Pete's Camp north of San Felipe to Campo Archelon in Bahia de los Angeles. Five vehicles, all 2005+ Nissan Xterras, with the "usual" stops for food, fuel and photo opportunities (trying to balance competing interests and arrive at the destination before dark).

The route is Mexico 5 through Puertocitos, Gonzaga Bay, etc. to Mexico 1. The date is in late December.

Any and all help is appreciated.

Tioloco - 9-10-2019 at 10:52 AM

As long as there aren't any storms that damage the road again, I say 5 hours is comfortable.

bajabuddha - 9-10-2019 at 11:14 AM

Late December you're all the way out of daylight, and also for every extra vehicle you have the exponential "Charlie Foxtrot Factor" of milling around, chooting the chit and getting rolling again.

So get an early start, take all day and enjoy the ride. :coolup:

[Edited on 9-10-2019 by bajabuddha]

Mr. Bills - 9-10-2019 at 11:22 AM

Daylight is definitely a concern. Sunrise in San Felipe on 12/26 is 6:35 am and sunset in Bajia de los Angeles will be 4:43 pm.

My thought was to leave Pete's Camp north of San Felipe no later than 8am. Think we can make the "usual stops" and be in camp in Bahia de los Angeles and set up before sunset?

David K - 9-10-2019 at 11:39 AM

San Felipe to Puertecitos is 1:30 max. There are 10 unpaved detour miles. 52 miles.

Puertecitos to Gonzaga Bay is 1:00 with 9 short detours around washed out bridges. 45 miles.

Gonzaga to Hwy. 1 (Laguna Chapala) is 1:00 or less. Mixed paved and unpaved, 35 miles. Coco's Corner is on the older route that most take.

Chapala to the L.A. Bay jcn. and on to L.A. Bay is about 70 miles, so 1:30 max.

Total time driving estimate: 5 hrs. about 200 miles.

Tioloco - 9-10-2019 at 11:46 AM

Mr. Bills- You will have no problem unless you get stuck in the Cowpatty vortex for too long....

AKgringo - 9-10-2019 at 11:59 AM

Sometimes I enjoy driving in the desert (reduced speed) under a full moon, but your travel dates will pretty much be under very little, or no moon!

Mr. Bills - 9-10-2019 at 11:59 AM

To David K:

Thanks for your detailed response. I am reading your articles in anticipation of this trip, which will complete a bucket list item I didn't know was on the list until I was invited to participate in the upcoming trip in December.

In 1965 my family and a few other jeeping families from my home town camped at Nuevo Mazatlan south of San Felipe during Easter break, long before Don Luis planted any trees. [I saw your photos in one of your trip reports] I think I still remember how to get there - drive south from San Felipe to the sulfur mine and turn left.

I remember Don Luis well. He visited our campfire one night after the adults had gone to bed and regaled us for several hours with alcohol fueled stories and bad singing in Spanish and broken English, waving an old revolver around in one hand and a bottle in the other whenever one of us would try to leave. He finally dozed off and we escaped to our tents. My mother talked about our evening with Don Luis until the day she died and I'm sure if you mentioned Don Luis to my brother and sister they would rattle off the story with no hesitation.

What makes the upcoming trip a bucket list event is my memory of driving to Puertocitos at age 15 to find gasoline and regretting that it was as far south as we would get. I vowed that I would someday make the drive all the way to Cabo San Lucas, and now 54 years later I am getting the chance.

[Edited on 9-10-2019 by Mr. Bills]

[Edited on 9-10-2019 by Mr. Bills]

David K - 9-10-2019 at 12:39 PM

Great to read of your Nuevo Mazatlan encounter. While I never referred to him as Don Luis, we were very close. He called my parents "brother Eduardo" and "sister Lynn" and tequila was a bad habit he had, indeed.
He originally lived by the sand dunes in an ocotillo shack. An American built him a plywood home where he was until he left for good around 1980. Javier, the new owner, continued using the house.
Luis had a dog named Corsadio and others. Luis had a wife around 1972 named Felicitas but only as long as he didn't drink anymore!
One day, the owner of La Roca (Eduardo) came by with tequila and... Felicitas left Luis.
The last time I saw Luis Castellanos Moreno was on a San Felipe sidewalk, looking bad, in 1989. He perked up when I reminded him of who I was and my parents names... He perked up. Vaya con Dios Don Luis!
See my Nuevo Mazatlan page www.vivabaja.com/nm

Mr. Bills - 9-10-2019 at 01:29 PM

Quote:

While I never referred to him as Don Luis, we were very close. He called my parents "brother Eduardo" and "sister Lynn" and tequila was a bad habit he had, indeed.

He originally lived by the sand dunes in an ocotillo shack. An American built him a plywood home where he was until he left for good around 1980.

Don Luis lived in the ocotillo shack when we first visited in 1965. [Maybe it was 1966?] We called him that because he told us he owned the beach. I had been taught as a child to address important people as Don when traveling in Mexico and it seemed to me that someone who owned an entire beach was important enough to deserve that title. He seemed to like it, more so when he was drunk.

We had transported plywood and other lumber to built an outhouse and showers for our time there. [One family in our group had an ownership interest in C&E Lumber just east of La Verne CA]. The structures were torn down before we left and the lumber used to start building his house.

Although my family traveled to Guymas the next year for Easter break rather than Baja, I am told that the same group of families from La Verne returned to Nuevo Mazatlan in 1967 and continued construction of Don Luis's house with the plywood and other lumber they brought with them. It may well have become a family project. I will have to track down someone in the family and ask.

David K - 9-10-2019 at 01:39 PM

Did you know the Lemke (Lemke?) family who had the little house on the hill 1/4 mile south? It is now El Sahuaro. They drove Jeep Gladiator pickups and owned a grocery store in the L.A. region... as best I recall.

David K - 9-10-2019 at 01:46 PM

Luis owned from the high tide line back to the sulfur mine, he would tell us. That might be because that was where the 'highway' was? Luis was so excited about a new highway coming ("very soon") as soon as the route was surveyed in 1974. There where white painted rocks in a big cross every so often along the route. It was very close to the coast compared to the old road. Well, the new roadbed didn't arrive until 1982, after Luis was no longer there.

Mr. Bills - 9-10-2019 at 02:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Did you know the Lemke (Lemke?) family who had the little house on the hill 1/4 mile south? It is now El Sahuaro. They drove Jeep Gladiator pickups and owned a grocery store in the L.A. region... as best I recall.

No, I did not. That was a very long time ago and I can't picture a house anywhere close. I don't remember any Gladiators either, but when I was there in the mid 1960's the original Kaiser Jeep Gladiators had only been in production for 2-3 years.

Maybe some other memories of Nuevo Mazatlan will return when I pass through in late December.

David K - 9-10-2019 at 03:06 PM

This was in or around 1967. They were red I think. My dad's vehicle was a 1965 Kaiser-Jeep Wagoneer with the Rambler V-8. It was great and took us all over Baja without any failures other than gear lock out by the shrimp boat near today's Bahía Santa María. The Lemke's rescued us after I walked to get them to help, about 2-3 miles.

Mr. Bills - 9-10-2019 at 04:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

This was in or around 1967. They were red I think. My dad's vehicle was a 1965 Kaiser-Jeep Wagoneer with the Rambler V-8. It was great and took us all over Baja without any failures other than gear lock out by the shrimp boat near today's Bahía Santa María. The Lemke's rescued us after I walked to get them to help, about 2-3 miles.

It is a small world indeed. We missed each other by a year.

My dad's jeep was a 1965 Kaiser Jeep CJ-5 with factory V-6, one of the first to be sold. We didn't give a second thought into cramming a family of 5 into it and traveling into Baja towing a '46 Bantam jeep trailer with two weeks of gear and supplies. Today it seems nuts to put that many people in a jeep.

mtgoat666 - 9-10-2019 at 05:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Bills

Daylight is definitely a concern. Sunrise in San Felipe on 12/26 is 6:35 am and sunset in Bajia de los Angeles will be 4:43 pm.

My thought was to leave Pete's Camp north of San Felipe no later than 8am. Think we can make the "usual stops" and be in camp in Bahia de los Angeles and set up before sunset?

one day drive time is fine....

days are short in december, so why you sleeping in until 830 am? get up when sky begins to lighten, wolf down some yogurt, granola and fruit, fill up your thermos with coffee, and be driving before sunrise.

if sunrise is 635, it's light enough to see by 0600

:light:

advrider - 9-10-2019 at 05:59 PM

I think we did it in seven hours last December, stopping at Coco's for a visit and a few stops to look around.

Mr. Bills - 9-10-2019 at 06:17 PM

I will be 69 at the start of this trip and breaking camp at the first hint of light doesn't have the allure it once did. Neither does yogurt and granola.

But I'm with you on the thermos full of coffee.

Realistically, getting this group packed and on the road much before 8 am will take exemplary cat herding skills.

I'll shoot for a 7:30 departure.

BajaRun - 9-10-2019 at 08:50 PM

5 Vehicles... Figure 30 mph average. If taking Frog Canyon figure 20 mph average.

David K - 9-10-2019 at 09:17 PM

Frog Canyon is Calamajué Canyon... (I think someone cleared up for me in the past?). It is a more interesting route indeed and you can see where the Jesuits first built their final California mission (in 1766).

[Edited on 9-11-2019 by David K]

chrishaynesusa - 9-10-2019 at 10:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Bills

I will be 69 at the start of this trip and breaking camp at the first hint of light doesn't have the allure it once did. Neither does yogurt and granola.

But I'm with you on the thermos full of coffee.

Realistically, getting this group packed and on the road much before 8 am will take exemplary cat herding skills.

I'll shoot for a 7:30 departure.

yup

Bajazly - 9-10-2019 at 11:09 PM

So Mr Bills, just out of curiosity, since that trip to Nuevo Mazatlan have you been back to Baja? Judging by your description on how to get to where you camped, sounds like that would be off the old Puertecitas Road which is still a dirt track. Or are you planning on retracing your route to that point which you could do but it would be kind of slow going for a while.

If you are taking the dirt out of Bahia across to El Arco, recommended, stop in at San Rafael, there is usually a sign but it is the only place the road comes close to the water. It a cool little beach and I have a loose plan to camp out there the week between Christmas and New Years. If you see a gringo and a cute little Mexi chick camped on the beach in a white Tacoma, come on down and say hi, like to meet you guys.

Skipjack Joe - 9-11-2019 at 12:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Chapala to the L.A. Bay jcn. and on to L.A. Bay is about 70 miles, so 1:30 max.

about 2 hours.

Mr. Bills - 9-11-2019 at 10:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly

So Mr Bills, just out of curiosity, since that trip to Nuevo Mazatlan have you been back to Baja? Judging by your description on how to get to where you camped, sounds like that would be off the old Puertecitas Road which is still a dirt track. Or are you planning on retracing your route . . . ?

I've been to Baja, but not San Felipe or the route south from there. Other than a vacation trips to the resort areas its been many years since I've done any real exploration there.

No need to trace the old road south from San Felipe, but I would like to see the beach at Nuevo Mazatlan and take some photos of how it looks now. I've started going though some old family photos for shots of our 1965 camp and/or Luis and his house.

I'm not the trail boss for this trip, just a participant. We have a route and a few hotel/camp reservations that dictate when we must be at certain places, but the group is fine tuning the itinerary now hence my request for first-hand knowledge of road conditions, realistic drive times, and perhaps must see places en route and the definitely avoids too.

At least one of us likes to drive from dawn until dark and at least one of us likes to stop to smell the flowers and enjoy the culture, with the rest of us at one extreme or the other or someplace in the middle depending on the circumstances. But we've all been offroading/overlanding friends for years so we'll work it out as always.

Area code 530

AKgringo - 9-13-2019 at 07:17 PM

Mr bills, I sent a private message (U2U), but just in case you aren't set up to receive them, I thought I should post here. There aren't a lot of us in 530, so if you are near Grass Valley, we may be neighbors!

JZ - 9-13-2019 at 07:50 PM

Day light is not a big factor. It's an easy 5 hour drive. The road into BoLA is very lightly traveled and in great shape.

No issues driving it at night if you don't go too fast (50ish). We drove it at night 2 weeks ago.

mjs - 9-14-2019 at 12:13 AM

There is new road construction starting at approx k37 just past Delicas. Lots of detours for new roadbed work at the vados. Would expect it to add a little bit of time to your trip.

In 1972, Luis Castellanos Moreno, founder of Nuevo Mazatlan

David K - 9-14-2019 at 09:51 AM

Luis (looking his best, not drinking), me (at age 14), and his wife, Felicitas.

Nuevo Mazatlan in or around 1967

David K - 9-14-2019 at 10:05 AM

Before Luis planted the trees at Nuevo Mazatlan, he built these cabañas to camp in.

Luis and Corsadio

Luis and my sister

Luis showing me his guitar

Luis lets my dad play it.

Mr. Bills - 9-14-2019 at 10:08 AM

I am stunned.

I opened today's post and saw the photo and didn't even need to read the caption to know the man on the left.

The photo must have been taken 6-7 years after I last saw "Don Luis." Now that I've read more on the history of Nuevo Mazatlan I realize that when my family camped there he had just acquired the beach.

David K - 9-14-2019 at 10:15 AM

It wasn't long before he gave the place a more touristy and colorful name than Agua de Chale!

Do you know the story about "Charley the Chinaman" (how the place became known as Agua de Charley and in Mexican Spanish: Agua de Chale)?

On this map from 1919, I circled "Agua Charley":

[Edited on 9-14-2019 by David K]

RFClark - 9-15-2019 at 04:04 PM

We have driven to Los Cabos a few times recently. (last 3 years) They are currently fixing the road (Mexico 5) south of Delicia (KM38) to Puertocitos. (Again) it’s not in bad shape with sone detours around construction. Still lots of 18 wheeler traffic going by so the road over to HWY 1 can’t be too bad. We drive from our place at KM56 to LA Bay or San Ignacio in one day. First gas south of Gonzaga is in Jesus and Maria after you reach HWY 1