BajaNomad

Stupid FMM ?

BajaMama - 2-12-2020 at 07:07 AM

I think the answer is no but I'll ask anyway. I'm flying to Loreto in 1-1/2 weeks for whale watching, flying back, too. I'll be driving to BCS in May. Can I get a 180 day FMM at the Loreto airport and keep it when I fly back? Or is it mandatory I turn it in at the airport when I depart Mexico?

Oh, how is the weather at San Ignacio Lagoon? This is our first time there for whale watching! Lots of whales?

David K - 2-12-2020 at 07:23 AM

The way I understand it:

The FMM for your vacation is paid with your plane ticket (if you are flying out of the USA). You keep it until you fly back to the USA, when they collect it.

[Edited on 2-12-2020 by David K]

Marc - 2-12-2020 at 07:57 AM

Years ago I drove to Baja and had to fly back from Loreto. Time to return and I couldn't find my FMM! I thought I had lost it. It was in my passport I thought. Did not realize at the time it was taken when I checked in. :light::light::light:

karenintx - 2-12-2020 at 08:12 AM

Here is my post from 2/2/2020...

When flying, a Tourist FMM Tax is included in your airline ticket, as required by Mexican INM Law. Passengers are given a FMM form on the plane then the passenger is required by Mexican Law to surrender the bottom half of the form "IF" they want to board their flight back to the USA. The passenger can always choose to drive back to the border and keep their bottom half of their FMM form as long as the INM agent put "extra" days on the form when they were processed by the INM agent at their arriving airport. "The airlines" do not want your FMM form, it is the Mexican INM that requires each airline to collect the bottom portion of the form, then they are required to give that form back to the INM office located in the airport.

Has anyone ever been in the INM office in the SJD airport? Did you notice the stacks of FMM form (bottom halves only) with rubber bands wrapped around them? As required by Mexican Law when flying out of the country I went to the SJD INM office to process my exiting paperwork, that is when I noticed multiple piles of FMM forms. I said to the female agent...Mucho papeleo! She rolled her eyes, nodded then said Si, Mucho.

Alan - 2-12-2020 at 02:49 PM

For the real honest answer? Its just depends on who is on duty that you will face on any given day.:biggrin: Everyone has given you correct answers. Now you just need to go and see which answer was correct for you on the day you go.

I just took a new car down on Thurs to replace my Jeep and crossed at Mexicali West. Told the INM agent I was returning Monday. He charged me $26? I said I thought that less than 7 days was free. His answer... Not anymore.

Just for fun when I landed back in TIJ on Monday and was walking towards CBX they had an INM desk with an agent right there so I tried to return my FMM. He pointed out it was good for 180 days and sent me on my way.

Where as last June when my daughter and I drove down the INM lady yelled at me because I still had my FMM from April. She took it from me then sent me to the bank to pay for another but issued my daughter one good for 7 days for free. When I got back from the bank she took my receipt then stamped my FMM for 7 days?:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Just roll with it. It's certainly not worth worrying about it.

Because I just flew domestic. (LAP-TIJ) no one cared about collecting my FMM but they "normally" collect it when checking in for an international return flight.

JZ - 2-12-2020 at 02:56 PM

Flying back from Loreto, 100% of the time they will take it from you at the gate. That will happen, no grey area.

surabi - 2-12-2020 at 03:49 PM

It doesn't matter what airport you are flying out of in Mexico-if you are flying out of the country, your FMM will be collected at the ticketing counter when checking in. 100% of th time. No grey area at all.

mtgoat666 - 2-12-2020 at 04:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
It doesn't matter what airport you are flying out of in Mexico-if you are flying out of the country, your FMM will be collected at the ticketing counter when checking in. 100% of th time. No grey area at all.


fmm is in regulations only to be used for one entry/exit. the land borders have been lax on enforcing the rule of one entry/exit per fmm. the airlines can easily enforce regulation that says fmm is only good for one entry/exit.

thebajarunner - 2-12-2020 at 06:23 PM

Every time I fly down they add it to my ticket and it gets stamped at my Mex destination
Every time I return I politely request that I be allowed to keep it and every time they smile and rip it off and I am left empty handed.
Been there, done that.....
Fails every time, but I never give up asking

David K - 2-12-2020 at 06:36 PM

The land travel FMM is dealt with differently and is valid for the entire period (up to 180 days), one or more trips, as you just keep it. I have asked INM officers this at different borders (Mexicali, Tecate, Tijuana) and got the same answer from all.

A flying FMM is good only for the one trip down and is surrendered when you board your return flight. If you fly down and drive back in someone else's car, then you will have that FMM with you until you throw it away.

gnukid - 2-12-2020 at 06:50 PM

FMM is also a migratory doc used for those non tourists with TR/PR Visas who at departure may also complete a "voluntary tax refund request" to refund the prepaid taxes for the flight, though are not required to have the FMM with them in Mexico, instead they simply create a new one prior to each flight departure and hand into the gate agent for historical record keeping?

[Edited on 2-13-2020 by gnukid]

chumlee57 - 2-12-2020 at 10:15 PM

Baja Mamma, I also live in Chivato. My suggestion is to join a travel club like 'Discover Baja' you can purchase the FMM from them, have it stamped in Loreto at any BVV and keep it for the 180 days. Unless things have changed, the airplane ride and its related tourist card are simply for the time you are visiting Mexico at that particular time. I could be wrong about this. Either way, i suggest you join a travel club, they answer these questions rather specifically as well, plus you get pretty good discounts on insurance, some hotels, etc., safe travels

surabi - 2-12-2020 at 11:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chumlee57  
Baja Mamma, I also live in Chivato. My suggestion is to join a travel club like 'Discover Baja' you can purchase the FMM from them, have it stamped in Loreto at any BVV and keep it for the 180 days. Unless things have changed, the airplane ride and its related tourist card are simply for the time you are visiting Mexico at that particular time. I could be wrong about this. Either way, i suggest you join a travel club, they answer these questions rather specifically as well, plus you get pretty good discounts on insurance, some hotels, etc., safe travels


???? You can only hold one tourist visa at a time. You can't get an FMM from a travel club and then use another FMM for an airline trip while the original FMM is still valid. Yes, you are definitely wrong about this.

Alm - 2-13-2020 at 05:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
The land travel FMM is dealt with differently and is valid for the entire period (up to 180 days), one or more trips, as you just keep it. I have asked INM officers this at different borders (Mexicali, Tecate, Tijuana) and got the same answer from all.

A flying FMM is good only for the one trip down and is surrendered when you board your return flight. If you fly down and drive back in someone else's car, then you will have that FMM with you until you throw it away.

There is no "land travel FMM" or "flying FMM", it is the same document in either scenario.

Yes, land crossing officers do things differently from those in airports, they collect FMM on departure. Doesn't matter whether FMM was issued in airport or on land crossing, they will collect it in airport when you leave the country, period.

[Edited on 2-14-2020 by Alm]

bajabuddha - 2-13-2020 at 05:55 PM

The cost of an FMM is chump change. Just pay the damned thing and be done with it.

David K - 2-13-2020 at 06:05 PM

Alm, you are basically saying the same thing as I am about the "do things different" part... but fwiw, the FMM I was issued at the Ensenada airport when I flew in (2014) was NOT the same paper as the driving one. It also cost more and there was an exit fee when we cleared out, 3-days later. No free 7-day, either.

Alm - 2-13-2020 at 06:07 PM

"Exit fee"?

David K - 2-13-2020 at 06:30 PM

Yep... it was a small amount, like $10 (maybe see my trip report) I recall.

chumlee57 - 2-13-2020 at 08:39 PM

Baja Momma, look into the travel club, you won't have to subject yourself to fools that have little to offer. My apoligies, if I was wrong, just thinking within the box, safe travels

BajaMama - 2-14-2020 at 07:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chumlee57  
Baja Mamma, I also live in Chivato. My suggestion is to join a travel club like 'Discover Baja' you can purchase the FMM from them, have it stamped in Loreto at any BVV and keep it for the 180 days. Unless things have changed, the airplane ride and its related tourist card are simply for the time you are visiting Mexico at that particular time. I could be wrong about this. Either way, i suggest you join a travel club, they answer these questions rather specifically as well, plus you get pretty good discounts on insurance, some hotels, etc., safe travels


I belong to Vagabundos del Mar, always get my documents from them & stamped at border when I enter. Not too big a deal to get another FMM in May, just through I'd try to save a couple bucks and a stop at the border!

BajaMama - 2-14-2020 at 07:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
The cost of an FMM is chump change. Just pay the damned thing and be done with it.


I agree, for me it was more of the not having to stop at the border and get it stamped. I may enter at a crossing new to me (east Mexicali) and thought this old lady may just screw it up and miss the INM office.

AKgringo - 2-14-2020 at 08:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama  
. I may enter at a crossing new to me (east Mexicali) and thought this old lady may just screw it up and miss the INM office.



That is exactly what happened to me at Mexicali east! I was probably at the right place to get an FMM, but was waved off. The next possible entry was blocked off, there was no place to park and walk back.

David K - 2-14-2020 at 10:29 AM

INM (the desk where you get the FMM) is typically in the very first building across the border. Park at the very first opportunity to do so, it may even be before the automatic gates (red/green light).

BajaMama - 2-14-2020 at 10:55 AM

Thanks David!

Alm - 2-14-2020 at 03:33 PM

If getting FMM in advance and save 5-10 minutes at the border is the goal, it doesn't make sense paying extra for FMM through travel club. You can get same FMM in advance through INM website, without surcharge.

I used to get it at INM but next trip will probably get it at the border because more than once they openly ignored me and my money on bus/pedestrian El Chaparral. If they don't need it, I'm not going to insist, either. El Chap is not like Mexicali, there is only one building, once you're in you're in, no matter what.

RFClark - 2-15-2020 at 09:37 AM

We just purchased our multiple entry tourist visas at the new west Mexicali crossing.

It’s good for 6 months of multiple trips between the US and Mexico. The cost is around $35. Take the exact amount as they don’t have any change! Amount and form available on line.

The new visa office is located at the far left side of the multiple entry lanes after you cross into Mexico but before you go through the customs lanes. There’s parking and a door there but no sign!

Alm - 2-15-2020 at 11:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
We just purchased our multiple entry tourist visas at the new west Mexicali crossing.

It’s good for 6 months of multiple trips between the US and Mexico.

"Forma Multiple" means that same form can be used for different types of trips - tourist, business etc. Unless things have changed recently, it doesn't say "multiple entry". Try flying out to the US from any Baja airport after only one entry with this "multiple" FMM and see what happens. However, land crossing officers are ignoring this rule, hard to tell why. One of Messico mysteries that nobody was able to explain yet.

mtgoat666 - 2-15-2020 at 11:58 AM

CBX has started rejecting attempts to re-use an FMM for multiple entries into mexico.
not really a big deal for under 7-day trips, as they are free and they got that nifty system that scans and prints your FMM info lickity-split

mtgoat666 - 2-15-2020 at 12:02 PM

from INM website regarding the FMM used for entry by land: "The applicant acknowledges herein that the FMM has a maximum validity of 180 calendar days and shall be valid for one entry only."
https://www.inm.gob.mx/fmme/publico/en/solicitud.html

the land border crossings for cars are still a bit lax, but things are changing...

sancho - 2-15-2020 at 01:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  

"Forma Multiple" means that same form can be used for different types of trips - tourist, business etc. Unless things have changed recently, it doesn't say "multiple entry"







Correct, that term can be confusing. As stated Multiple refers
to classification, not entries. However, I cross at Mexicali West,
always ask the IMM Officer about the fmm. For a few yrs. , they
have said the 180 day good for going over and back to the US.
They want the 7 day returned, go figure. Mexicali West office
is a bit rogue, operating with their own regs. The IMM regs are
what the Officer says they are.
Travel clubs are for insurance, not to needlessly pay more
for an fmm









[Edited on 2-15-2020 by sancho]

mtgoat666 - 2-15-2020 at 01:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
the FMM is the fuel that powers the baja message board, with hwy5 complete it'll have to bear the brunt I suppose. does anyone have a government document that shows the FMM good for multiple crossings? Baja travel clubs that tell us they are good for multiple crossings must get their info from somewhere!


The travel clubs have large staff of paid researchers and immigration attorneys that publish lengthy research papers... based on anecdotes they collect from these message boards

David K - 2-16-2020 at 08:46 AM

When you get your FMM and pay for one, get it for 180 days (you can usually write that in yourself when filling out the form).
Because it is not turned back in at the end of your trip, you still have an active FMM until the 180 days is expired. This is not only common sense but it is also what the INM officials tell us (told me at Mexicali, Tecate, and Tijuana during my 2017-2019 trips).

AKgringo - 2-16-2020 at 09:48 AM

At the new Mexicali west INM office on Jan 21st, the agent asked how long will I be in Mexico. I told him that this trip would be approx. six weeks, but I need to return in May.

He wrote the FMM for 180 days, and when I asked if I could use it twice, he said yes!

I also asked about turning it back in, and he said yes, turn it in right there when I finish the second trip.

I then asked what to do about turning it in if I am not able to make the second trip, and he said "Throw it away!"

As always, your experience may vary!

Alan - 2-16-2020 at 10:52 AM

It says right on the FMM that it is valid for one time use. However I have had it accepted for multiple entries when crossing with CBX yet another time when crossing at Mexicali West the lady scolded me for still having it in my possession then had me buy another. If I have a valid one still in my possession when driving I don't bother to stop. In the rare event that anyone asks to see it I'll have it and its still valid.

I just got one last week at Mexicali West. I simply pulled into the Declaration Area and explained I need to go to IMN. They showed me where I could park and then pointed to a man who they said would lead me there. One other person pulled in right then and we all followed the officer to the IMN desk. Told him I would only be in MX for 6 days but he still charged me and when questioned said they don't issue free ones anymore? The other person that just pulled in when we did was really surprised because he was only coming in for a dental appointment!

Flying back down Wed for a one week visit. Still debating whether to show my 180 day visa issued last week to see if they accept it or just hide it and see if they give me a free 7 day visa.

Once again I know its just going to depend on who I talk to that specific day.

David K - 2-16-2020 at 11:04 AM

Flying? From inside Mexico or from the U.S. to Mexico? You do know why I am asking, yes? ;)

PaulW - 2-16-2020 at 11:15 AM

The FMM document will be changed when the existing supply is exhausted.
The official regulations will be changed when they get around to it.
Meanwhile you could always ask the supervisor at the border what the requirement is.
I was more fortunate in that I went to a public meeting and the head of all of Baja for this subject verbally said was was posted.

For land crossings FMMs are good for 1 year for multiple crossings and do not have to be returned.
========== ===
Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
It says right on the FMM that it is valid for one time use. However I have had it accepted for multiple entries when crossing with CBX yet another time when crossing at Mexicali West the lady scolded me for still having it in my possession then had me buy another. If I have a valid one still in my possession when driving I don't bother to stop. In the rare event that anyone asks to see it I'll have it and its still valid.

I just got one last week at Mexicali West. I simply pulled into the Declaration Area and explained I need to go to IMN. They showed me where I could park and then pointed to a man who they said would lead me there. One other person pulled in right then and we all followed the officer to the IMN desk. Told him I would only be in MX for 6 days but he still charged me and when questioned said they don't issue free ones anymore? The other person that just pulled in when we did was really surprised because he was only coming in for a dental appointment!

Flying back down Wed for a one week visit. Still debating whether to show my 180 day visa issued last week to see if they accept it or just hide it and see if they give me a free 7 day visa.

Once again I know its just going to depend on who I talk to that specific day.

Mr. Bills - 2-16-2020 at 11:16 AM

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
It says right on the FMM that it is valid for one time use.


Where? I am looking at my stamped FMM with an entry date of 22 Dec 2019 and cannot find any text that reads that the FMM is valid for one one entry or only one time use.

I may have missed it.



[Edited on 2-16-2020 by Mr. Bills]

Alan - 2-16-2020 at 11:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Flying? From inside Mexico or from the U.S. to Mexico? You do know why I am asking, yes? ;)
Domestic flight via CBX. Not included in ticket. IMN desk just before Aduanja before you can go to your boarding gates.

sancho - 2-16-2020 at 02:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  

I was more fortunate in that I went to a public meeting and the head of all of Baja for this subject verbally said was was posted.
For land crossings FMMs are good for 1 year for multiple crossings and do not have to be returned.





Paul,
Not to be repetitive, just that that info is new to me, but the info
you received from an Immigration Official suggests
a new amount of days granted on an fmm will be increased to
365 days for land crossings? I assume that is new, yet to be implemented.
That would be excellent











[Edited on 2-16-2020 by sancho]

[Edited on 2-16-2020 by sancho]

David K - 2-16-2020 at 04:05 PM

Paul, 180 days is closer to 1/2 year.

Don Pisto - 2-16-2020 at 04:28 PM

now INM officials are considering a 90 day waiting period between 180 day tourist permits.....things are changing!

mtgoat666 - 2-16-2020 at 07:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
now INM officials are considering a 90 day waiting period between 180 day tourist permits.....things are changing!


Makes sense. No tourist needs back-to-back 180-day stays. Fmm is single-entry permit for short-term stay, like tourists. If you live there semi-permanently, perhaps you are not a tourist, eh?

sancho - 2-16-2020 at 08:05 PM

It is of some irritation to Mex IMM that the continual back to back
180 day fmm's that have been available, of course they could
change that tomorrow. Wonder if there would any push back from
the Tourist industry in Mex if a 90 time period between fmm's
was the reg? I've glanced at the temp resident program, can't
remember what the cost is?
Imagine one would need an address in Mex







David K - 2-17-2020 at 10:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
now INM officials are considering a 90 day waiting period between 180 day tourist permits.....things are changing!


Makes sense. No tourist needs back-to-back 180-day stays. Fmm is single-entry permit for short-term stay, like tourists. If you live there semi-permanently, perhaps you are not a tourist, eh?


That's the thing... it isn't just tourists using them but people who live in Mexico too, in homes they own or places they rent. I read of them (on Facebook pages) saying they need to run up to the border to get another one as the 180 days is almost up.

As for actual tourists using them... If they take a weekend to week-long trip, once a month, then they only need to stop for the process twice a year to possess a valid FMM.
Since I watched multiple U.S. plated cars crossing the border without stopping (when I was getting a new FMM), that must be how others are traveling? (LOL):wow:

Alm - 2-17-2020 at 11:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho  
I've glanced at the temp resident program, can't
remember what the cost is?
Imagine one would need an address in Mex


It's not just the cost, but plenty of documents to submit and forms to fill, plus a few trips to INM office, because they can't activate your resident status right at the border like they do in some other countries.

Fees 2020:
Consulate fee $US 50
RT fee
One year $4,271 pesos
Two years $6,400 pesos
Three years $8,106 pesos
Four years $9,607 pesos

First RT must be for 1 year only. $50 + 1 year RT +3 years, ~ 700 bucks total.

You don't need Mex address to start the process, I don't remember if they ask for some address later.

[Edited on 2-17-2020 by Alm]

Don Pisto - 2-17-2020 at 01:39 PM

JMO mind you.....but I don't understand why mexico cares if you choose to reside with a tourist permit. the steep financial requirements exclude a ton of ex-pats that are well healed yet don't quite qualify yet mexico still reaps the benefits of not only the $30 every 6 months and knowing who's in their country but the ton of dough going into their economy.......bring back the amnesty program of a few years ago with no financial requirements would also be a great start:coolup:

Alm - 2-17-2020 at 04:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
the steep financial requirements {for RT} exclude a ton of ex-pats that are well healed yet don't quite qualify

People getting less than $1,900 total monthly retirement income for a married couple can hardly be called "well healed". For a single person it's more difficult because the amount is about the same.

Don Pisto - 2-17-2020 at 04:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
the steep financial requirements {for RT} exclude a ton of ex-pats that are well healed yet don't quite qualify

People getting less than $1,900 total monthly retirement income for a married couple can hardly be called "well healed". For a single person it's more difficult because the amount is about the same.


well obviously your idea of well heeled and mine don't jive....average ex-pat on SS gets around $1500 a month, live in an oceanfront home for $600 or $700 a month and the rest goes into the mexican economy, that should be enough to legally live in mexico (IMO), now add a bank account of 30K and you still don't qualify??

Alm - 2-17-2020 at 05:18 PM

$1,500 a month = 3,000 per couple. Enough to qualify.

Bank account 30K is the requirement to be used instead of income, not to "add".

del mar - 2-17-2020 at 05:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
JMO mind you.....but I don't understand why mexico cares if you choose to reside with a tourist permit. the steep financial requirements exclude a ton of ex-pats that are well healed yet don't quite qualify yet mexico still reaps the benefits of not only the $30 every 6 months and knowing who's in their country but the ton of dough going into their economy.......bring back the amnesty program of a few years ago with no financial requirements would also be a great start:coolup:


we can hope....but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for another amnesty program...but you never know!:P

mtgoat666 - 2-17-2020 at 05:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
the steep financial requirements {for RT} exclude a ton of ex-pats that are well healed yet don't quite qualify

People getting less than $1,900 total monthly retirement income for a married couple can hardly be called "well healed". For a single person it's more difficult because the amount is about the same.


Married couple in baja mexico making 1900 usd per month is doing pretty well, I would call that on the upper side of middle class.

Alan - 2-18-2020 at 10:13 AM

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Bills  
Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
It says right on the FMM that it is valid for one time use.


Where? I am looking at my stamped FMM with an entry date of 22 Dec 2019 and cannot find any text that reads that the FMM is valid for one one entry or only one time use.

I may have missed it.



[Edited on 2-16-2020 by Mr. Bills]

Look right on the back of your card. The very first line under the word IMPORTANT "During your stay in Mexico you must retain this immigration form and surrender it upon leaving the country".

[Edited on 2-18-2020 by Alan]

Alm - 2-18-2020 at 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  

Married couple in baja mexico making 1900 usd per month is doing pretty well, I would call that on the upper side of middle class.

Upper middle class of Mexico maybe. The argument - if you read previous messages - was about well healed expats making 1500 each and can't qualify. There is no such thing yet. If it's a couple with 3K total, they qualify and if it's a single guy/gal, he is not really well healed, not in the US. With the expenses of 2 homes I doubt he could live like a Mexican upper middle class, either. Again, for a low-income person there is an option to show 27K-32K savings instead. It's not too bad yet but it's getting worse.

It should be 1,600 income (2,100 per couple) or 27K savings, but INM screwed up and didn't make reference to UMA amounts in their Act so the consulates are using minimum wages instead, those are rising every year.

[Edited on 2-18-2020 by Alm]

Don Pisto - 2-18-2020 at 01:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
...but INM screwed up and didn't make reference to UMA amounts in their Act so the consulates are using minimum wages instead,
In my experience, many government fees and amounts in Mexico are based on minimum wages; what's an "UMA" and why should they use it rather than their internal standard?
:?:

BTW, someone is "well healed" from surgery, nothing to do with money. :spingrin:


https://www.mexperience.com/mexico-residency-minimum-wage-vs...

Mr. Bills - 2-18-2020 at 02:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alan  
Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Bills  

. . . I am looking at my stamped FMM with an entry date of 22 Dec 2019 and cannot find any text that reads that the FMM is valid for one one entry or only one time use.

I may have missed it.


Look on the back of your card . . . "During your stay in Mexico you must retain this immigration form and surrender it upon leaving the country".


Thank you. I did miss it.

David K - 2-19-2020 at 11:30 AM

"Surrender it" to any official... This happens at airports when you fly out from Mexico.

There is no "surrendering" as you drive out of Mexico. You do not drive through a Mexican exit station where you could surrender it, if you wanted to.

These forms are created in Mexico City by bureaucrats who obviously only think of tourists flying into Mexico.

Alm - 2-19-2020 at 04:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
... if the intention is to make sure that immigrating foreigners are positive contributors to the economy by having high incomes relative to the local workforce, it might actually make more sense to use minimum wages as the criterion.

What bureaucrats are thinking, is a mystery.
I believe income of any US or Canadian retiree is higher than average wages of local Mex workforce. More expat retirees - more positive contribution.

mtgoat666 - 2-19-2020 at 08:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
[More expat retirees - more positive contribution.

True. And the more local wage-earners get priced out of the housing market by foreign capital.

It's two-edged, and I'm still trying to figure out whether the gains outweigh the other side.
:?:


Gringos (and their developers) and other rich/elites have ruined all the nice beaches. Walls, fences, closed roads.
Thankfully, in usa we have vast swaths of public lands and beaches... though the rich are constantly trying to fence the public beaches and privatize the public lands.

Alm - 2-21-2020 at 07:10 PM

Locals are priced out of the housing market by foreign capital all over the US and Canada - especially Canada, with influx of Chinese capital in the last 25-30 years. Prices are disproportional to local wages, except for places where nobody wants to live - and even this is changing.

Mexicans have already done a good job fencing off the coast where they could, much fewer public beaches and parks than in the US.