BajaNomad - First COVID-19 vaccine tested in US produced antibodies in all patients during trial

First COVID-19 vaccine tested in US produced antibodies in all patients during trial

JZ - 7-14-2020 at 05:11 PM

“No matter how you slice this, this is good news,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, the U.S. government’s top infectious disease expert, told The Associated Press.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/first-covid-19-vaccine-tested...

Howard - 7-14-2020 at 05:44 PM

Promising but not getting to excited at this point.

surabi - 7-14-2020 at 06:55 PM

Any new positive developments are good news, but the sticky point on this is that there hasn't been any proof that having antibodies prevents you from getting the virus. And there have been studies that show that the antibodies that those who've had the virus were shown to have diminished rapidly in a short period of time.

mtgoat666 - 7-14-2020 at 07:24 PM

This winter, if you catch a cold or the flu, then catch covid19 on top of the Cold or flu, i would bet you die

Even if you are young and stupid, youth wont protect you when you are immune compromised. Cytokine storm! The ICU will be full to capacity, so hope you get sick early before your neighbors, or sayonara!

Hope your summer of mask denial was a nice finale to life!

RFClark - 7-14-2020 at 07:27 PM

Yes, the “End Days” are upon us, there’s a comet in the sky! We’re all going to die!

If Biden wins being dead is probably a good thing!

JZ - 7-14-2020 at 07:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

This winter, if you catch a cold or the flu, then catch covid19 on top of the Cold or flu, i would bet you die

Even if you are young and stupid, youth wont protect you when you are immune compromised. Cytokine storm! The ICU will be full to capacity, so hope you get sick early before your neighbors, or sayonara!

Hope your summer of mask denial was a nice finale to life!

Haven't had the flu in about 15 years and have never had a flu shot.

[Edited on 7-15-2020 by JZ]

RFClark - 7-14-2020 at 07:56 PM

I plan on getting a Flu and a Covid Vaccination this fall!

“What the American people want to do is fight a war without getting hurt. You can’t do that anymore than you can get into a barroom fight without getting hurt… Unless the American people are willing to send their sons out to fight an aggressor, there just isn’t going to be any United States.” – Chesty Puller”

General Puller would never vote for Joe Biden!

Lee - 7-14-2020 at 08:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

I plan on getting a Flu and a Covid Vaccination this fall!

“What the American people want to do is fight a war without getting hurt. You can’t do that anymore than you can get into a barroom fight without getting hurt… Unless the American people are willing to send their sons out to fight an aggressor, there just isn’t going to be any United States.” – Chesty Puller”

General Puller would never vote for Joe Biden!

Not voting for Biden and Chesty wouldn't vote for a draft dodger. He would kick his booty.

On subject: vaccine is coming. Problem might be the large number of people who die because they didn't take this stuff seriously.

TMW - 7-14-2020 at 08:35 PM

I haven't had the flu either in about 15 years or more years and I do get the flu shot every year. I get every vaccine they come up with shingles, pneumonia, hep A and B I don't care give me all of em. I also wear a mask when I go into a store. I also stay away from crowds.

TMW - 7-14-2020 at 08:43 PM

It is interesting how many people are not taking this COVID-19 virus seriously. Some friends and I were talking the other day and none of us personally know of anyone who has gotten it. I asked my son who lives in CO and neither does he. However my daughter who is a nurse in Fresno knows several people who have gotten it and died from it. Her ex husband's girl friend got it and gave it to her son, both are OK now. I believe it and I don't want it.

Global/USA testing

gnukid - 7-15-2020 at 10:10 AM

COVID PCR testing can not determine between isolated covid and any other pathogen or common cold and results in perhaps a majority of false positive, according to Doborah Birx. While serological testing post infection may determine antibodies present qualitatively or quantitatively but doesn't mean the person ever was infected, they may simply acquire immunity through social contact. Meaning, there is not accurate data, certainly, the data contain gross errors, conflation and can not be used to drive decision making and policy.

In this video Birx explains why there is no confidence in the testing data.

Deborah Birx explains that 50%, majority of testing, are incorrect due to inability to test for isolated covid19, and people have variable quantitative evidence of infection. Most people are not tested, simply marked positive in response to questions.

https://www.mrctv.org/videos/dr-birx-warns-false-positives-f...

Deborah Birx warns of grossly inaccurate testing

https://www.cnsnews.com/article/washington/melanie-arter/dr-...

--
Fauci, on face masks, "I want to make it be a symbol for people to see that that's the kind of thing you should be doing," he added.

During the interview, he also admitted that wearing a mask is not 100% effective, but says that it is a gesture that shows "respect" for other people." https://va.news-republic.com/a/6831912055621026310

--
Fauci says masks don't help reduce risk of covid and do cause harm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LScHAvufgfM

--
Fauci, stay at home orders may cause irreparable harm.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/fauci-says-extended-stay-home...

--
Fauci, no evidence that vaccine would be effective.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/12/fauci-tells-congress-no-guar...

--
Conflation of tests, errors, suspected continues at CDC
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-acknowledges-mixing-up...

--
Whoops, gross errors in testing, reporting cases and deaths result in CDC losing control of reporting due loss of confidence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-cor...

[Edited on 7-15-2020 by gnukid]

gnukid - 7-15-2020 at 12:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

COVID PCR testing can not determine between isolated covid and any other pathogen or common cold

"This means the test cannot distinguishing covid from a cold or measles or ebola..."

You seriously want us to believe that an official Australian Government publication went to press with that kind of grammar?

Almost like it was doctored by someone without a very good handle on English. :?:

I am not the source, Deborah Birx has clearly communicated the problem with COVID PCR testing, the creator has consistently communicated the test is not an isolated test for COVID and should not be used, this is public domain, all sides reporting consistently including CDC, provisional suspected is grossly error prone and invalid, no validated data of cases or deaths exists, according to Birx, Fauci, CDC actual excess death by case from COVID. Gross conflation of PCR and serological testing, multiple counts per patients, grossly error prone. If you are not aware its your own lack of ability to read. Not my position nor my point of view or opinion. There is no isolation of unique COVID19 infection testing in general occurring in Mexico. No validated data correlating cases and deaths, Yes that is shocking, yes it is good news. Do your own research in validation of COVID PCR testing. Its not hard.

gnukid - 7-15-2020 at 12:19 PM

I looked it up myself on the CDC guidelines for testing, DO your own research.

gnukid - 7-15-2020 at 12:28 PM

It's not hard to look it up yourself though it seems easier for Nomads to refuse to read the source and instead make insulating derogatory comments suggesting fraud. Why not look it up. Lencho are you incapable of using the internet that you peck away at day and night? Chrome doesn't read PDF?

Do your own search, yes the RT-PCR guidelines can change, I just pulled the guidelines it took me 1 minute to go LIMITATIONS to page 37-38 and read limitations where it clearly states:

"This test cannot rule out diseases caused by other bacterial or viral pathogens."

https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

no validation of infection of COVID.png - 200kB

[Edited on 7-15-2020 by gnukid]

gnukid - 7-15-2020 at 12:40 PM

Most people aren't tested, they are marked positive based on a series of questions, did you have contact with a COVID19 positive patient, do you have any symptoms? If yes you are positive suspected provisional.

Yes its great news to know we do not have cases or deaths validated.

Ample evidence exists that social contact builds immunity, isolation harms immunity, Face masks are not recommended for general public use according to all major health providers.

gnukid - 7-15-2020 at 01:03 PM

All RT-PCR Diagnostic testing for COVID19 states not for viral infection validation, for research only, which is why it is suspected provisional.

This is great news, there are no validated cases of infection, what we have is a conflation of all respiratory symptoms as "COVID19" while those numbers remain in the range of year to year flu like illness, there is no increase in overall actual excess deaths.

It's important to read carefully, understand the motivation, and make sense of the conflicting, confusing, conflation of data. When "we just don't know", is the driving force for ALTERING HUMAN BEHAVIOR, then its not likely for our health benefit and clearly not based on validation.

It is time for Geriatric Nomads to Go Out

BajaNomad - 7-15-2020 at 02:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

It is time for Geriatric Nomads to Go Out

To socially interact? If so, what health organization recommends this? Seems like it would be 100% mis-aligned with any credible source globally, and if so would be dangerously inappropriate advice.

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

there is no increase in overall actual excess deaths.

Today's #'s: "Total predicted number of excess deaths since 2/1/2020 across the United States: 124,892 - 168,675"
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

Deborah Birx explains that 50%, majority of testing, are incorrect due to inability to test for isolated covid19, and people have variable quantitative evidence of infection. Most people are not tested, simply marked positive in response to questions.

https://www.mrctv.org/videos/dr-birx-warns-false-positives-f...

Deborah Birx warns of grossly inaccurate testing

https://www.cnsnews.com/article/washington/melanie-arter/dr-...

Fact is Deborah Birx said nothing here (an April 19th interview) about the majority of testing being incorrect. She did say it won't be 100% accurate. She did say that around mid-March they changed testing to be more Covid sensitive/specific.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/coronavirus-testing-part-sol...

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

Face masks are not recommended for general public use according to all major health providers.

"CDC recommends that people wear cloth face coverings in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si...

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

Ample evidence exists that social contact builds immunity, isolation harms immunity,

Seems there's quite a bit of disagreement with this from numerous global entities:

'The Mississippi governor has dismissed herd immunity as a way to combat the spread of the novel coronavirus, and reiterated his plea for people in his state to wear masks.'
https://www.newsweek.com/mississippi-gov-argues-against-herd...

'A study conducted by Spanish researchers has found that only five per cent of the population in Spain has developed antibodies, nowhere near the levels needed to achieve ''herd immunity''. According to the study, despite the high impact of Covid-19 in Spain, prevalence estimates remain low and are clearly insufficient to provide herd immunity.'
https://news.abplive.com/uncut/bin-manga-gyan/antibody-resea...

'Germany 'is still vulnerable to second wave of Covid-19' as antibody study reveals only 1.3% of the country has developed any immunity'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8524953/Germany-vul...

'Researchers continue to find evidence that the concept of immunity from widespread infection may not apply to COVID-19. A study published on July 11 by researchers at King’s College London found that antibodies detected in the human body which fight the coronavirus declined after just a few weeks, leaving the possibility of herd immunity out of the question.'
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/in-another-blow-to-herd-imm...
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.09.20148429v...

According to Sweden's official stats, they have a 7.3% covid death rate.
https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+stats+sweden

'The epidemiologist who led Sweden's controversial COVID-19 response, which did not involve a strict lockdown, now says that the country should have done more to stop the spread of the virus'
https://www.livescience.com/results-of-sweden-covid19-respon...

Image from Dr. Scott Gottlieb:
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/12766988524485222...

[Edited on 7-15-2020 by BajaNomad]

RFClark - 7-15-2020 at 03:45 PM

A couple of things:

No one has, to my knowledge, reported any cases of reinfection with symptoms.

The CDC has reported a normal Or Well below normal number of Total deaths in the US for the last 4 weeks through 7/15.

The current Vaccine test that going into large scale trials in a few days is producing antibody levels averaging 4X those from contracting the actual disease.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

BajaNomad - 7-15-2020 at 04:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

A couple of things:

No one has, to my knowledge, reported any cases of reinfection with symptoms.

'July 15, 2020 - Doctors at Massachusetts General Hospital suspect an 82-year-old man treated earlier in the year for COVID-19, was infected again after he recovered.'
https://www.boston25news.com/news/health/covid-19-reinfectio...

'Jul 12, 2020 - My patient caught Covid-19 twice.'
https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321653/getting-covid-19-twic...

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

A couple of things:

The CDC has reported a normal Or Well below normal number of Total deaths in the US for the last 4 weeks through 7/15.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

In those #'s, it explicitly states the following: "Data in recent weeks are incomplete. Only 60% of death records are submitted to NCHS within 10 days of the date of death..."

Might take a few weeks for the stats (and projections) to fully develop.

excess_deaths_notation-incomplete.jpg - 19kB

excess_deaths_notation-incomplete.jpg - 19kB

RFClark - 7-15-2020 at 04:38 PM

OK, 2 possible reinfections out of 13.5 million confirmed cases.

The total numbers of deaths have been decreasing for around 30 days. None of those prior weeks have been revised upward to date! We’ll see next Wednesday.

The prior spike in deaths is largely compliments of NY (Cuomo) and NJ (Murphy) killing off nursing home patients and workers! (Around 12 thousand).

Then there’s the Ford Hydroxychloroquine study of 3500 patients that showed a 50% reduction in deaths ( from 26% to 13%). A US peer reviewed and published study! How many people died because of politics on this subject?
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

Why does it seem that those who see the glass as half empty seem to have a similar political view?

BajaNomad - 7-15-2020 at 04:43 PM

'The vaccine candidate produced neutralizing antibodies, which scientists believe is important for building immunity against the virus, in all 45 patients tested in the trial, Moderna scientists reported Tuesday night in the New England Journal of Medicine. Additionally, the antibodies that were produced were higher than those seen in people who have recovered from Covid-19.'
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/moderna-stock-surges-after-r...

'CNBC’s Jim Cramer said Wednesday that he wants to see the insider stock sales activity at Moderna before deciding how confident to be about the vaccine data the drug company released on Tuesday night.'
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/cramer-says-he-wants-to-see-...

RFClark - 7-15-2020 at 05:14 PM

“ If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”
– Bishop Desmond Tutu

Even CNN’s Jake Tapper and Dr. San Jay Gupta spoke out against Governor Cuomo, finally! 32,000 dead in NY. @TheLeadCNN

Alm - 7-16-2020 at 10:10 AM

Antibodies don't necessarily make you immune. A reliable proof would've been a clinical trial with participants deliberately infected - on humans, not on anuimals or in vitro. A blindfold study where a half is given a vaccine and the other half a placebo.

When I look at the deaths for the last few months https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ - the period July 7 through July 15 is similar to the period of June 7-15, either one is higher than the period in between. In other words, it's trending up at the moment.

Also consider that deaths have approximately 1 month lag from the date when a person was infected to the date when his death is added to statistics (if he dies).

RFClark - 7-16-2020 at 11:48 AM

Consider that a lot of the current hospital admissions aren’t presenting until they are gravely ill and that the hospital stay lengths are about 1/2 what they were a few months ago.

Also consider that the best way to remove politics from Virus Deaths is to track the deaths from all causes in the US which is released each Wednesday by the CDC. If the number of deaths raises above the historical predicted average than more people are dying and one way or another it’s probably attributable to the Virus. Examine that chart as it's very interesting. Yes it could go up in coming weeks but on average 55K to 65K Americans die each week, more in winter less in summer. The total deaths went up in April/May when NY and NJ were killing off there Nursing Home patients. Since that peak it’s been falling.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Hospital admissions due to lab tested virus admissions are also tracked. The data lags by about 2 weeks but so far no sharp rise in admissions either. It is interesting to note that admissions are about 6X higher than the average for the 65+ age group.

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html

The 30K person trial will probably answer you concerns! Followed by most getting vaccinated except for the anti-vaxxers of all political sorts!

If you think that this isn’t political you aren’t paying attention!

Skipjack Joe - 7-16-2020 at 08:27 PM

"This means the test cannot distinguish covid from a cold or measles or ebola"

This doesn't make sense to me. PCR is essentially a fast method of gene sequencing. While it is true that the gene sequence of a live RNA is the same as a non-infective RNA the gene sequence of each type of virus is unique. So how can you confuse the covid virus gene sequence with that of the flu?

RFClark - 7-17-2020 at 03:45 PM

Nope, it’s Fake News or politics!

Below is a fact check website with the complete story.

https://factcheck.afp.com/sites/default/files/styles/list_xl...

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 04:14 PM

You don't need a fact check to prove or disprove, you can simply go to CDC or FDA and pull the instructions and guidelines for CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel go to the page noting Limitations which I recall is pg 37-38 https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

Also, its not clear why it's so important to disprove something that is clearly stated by CDC and FDA and widely known in the public domain? Why is RF Clark and the Admin on BN and Ron on Talk Baja so invested in hiding this well known fact? Thats suspicious and odd?

If you follow the link, RF Clark posted it is super simplistic and says something entirely different, which may or may not b true, since there is no source, no study, no peer review etc. It states that multiple tests are given until th patient tests negative twice, which supports the admission by CDC that they reported cumulative tests, also conflating PCR and Serology tests for a single person, so, one person could be tested everyday for two weeks or more until twice testing negative, and all those were conflated in addition to not being at all accurate.

[Edited on 7-17-2020 by gnukid]

SFandH - 7-17-2020 at 04:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Nope, it’s Fake News or politics!

Below is a fact check website with the complete story.

https://factcheck.afp.com/sites/default/files/styles/list_xl...

Better yet, here's the real document. It doesn't contain the last two parts of gnukid's apparently fake image.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020...

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 04:21 PM

I provided the link to the FDA AND CDC or simply search for it yourself, you slippery sleuths can research your way out a paper bag?

Go to Page 37-38 or read the entire document if you are interested.

CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel

https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

Deborah Birx herself states she has no confidence in the testing numbers, it could be false positive or false negative.

https://www.businessinsider.com/deborah-birx-cdc-comments-co...

Birx tests are not accurate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdN--11btc0

In addition to tests been inaccurate, reporting of the results is conflated, conflating all respiratory illness as covid, HHS , the parent of CDC repeatedly petitioned for corrections, after a long long time with continued problems with the burden of reporting, HHS worked together with CDC to update the methodology to improve the quality of data. Here is the announcement from HHS, a government agency which is parent to CDC. https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/07/15/prepared-remarks-f...

[Edited on 7-17-2020 by gnukid]

RFClark - 7-17-2020 at 04:27 PM

Sorry that was the wrong link.

https://factcheck.afp.com/misleading-claim-circulates-about-...

Here’s the complete story!

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 04:31 PM

RF Clark, you a are great investigator, could you search for the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel and read the limitations and tell us what is says? Thanks buddy!

[Edited on 7-17-2020 by gnukid]

elgatoloco - 7-17-2020 at 04:37 PM

https://factcheck.afp.com/trump-makes-false-claims-about-cov...

RFClark - 7-17-2020 at 04:49 PM

“ I provided the link to the FDA AND CDC or simply search for it yourself, you slippery sleuths couldn't research your way out a paper bag.
Go to Page 37-38 or read the entire document if you are interested.
CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel”

I was in the Medical business when they started developing rapid tests and understand their limits. The FDA instructions say nothing about false positive issues with other Viruses!

Below is what the Australian Department of Health said about gunkid’s email. The Aussies aren’t electing a president where one of the parties require a disaster to win! I tend to believe them as they are generally competent regarding things medical.

“ In an email to AFP on June 29, a Department of Health spokesperson said: “The social media post contains selectively chosen information taken out of context from the Department of Health factsheet for Clinicians, along with complete inaccuracies.
“In Australia, the benchmark test to diagnose acute COVID-19 infection is called a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test. This test is very sensitive and detects tiny fragments of genetic information that are specific to the virus that causes COVID-19. The factsheet is actually dealing with COVID-19 positive people continuing to test positive after the infectious period has passed. It is true that the PCR may still result in a positive test, because of remaining non-infectious viral load within the patient.”
The spokesperson stressed the PCR test for COVID-19 is designed specifically for SARS-CoV-2: “Real time reverse-transcriptase polymerase chain reaction (qRT-PCR) for SARS-COV-2 is specific to SARS-COV-2 and will reliably detect SARS-COV-2 RNA whether the virus is viable or not. The specific test for SARS-COV-2 will not detect other pathogens. Specific tests for other pathogens will not detect SARS-COV-2.”

RFClark - 7-17-2020 at 05:05 PM

The US tests more people each day than any other country! The President is correct!

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/international-comparison

SFandH - 7-17-2020 at 05:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

The President is correct!

Well chit fire howdy! That is newsworthy!

Bajazly - 7-17-2020 at 05:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

The US tests more people each day than any other country! The President is correct!

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/international-comparison

The US has done the second most tests in the world but is still number 23 in per capita so not "more than anybody in the world" as some numbnutz likes to parrot.

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 06:47 PM

Clearly, RF you have a misunderstanding and are providing misinformation.

The FDA and CDC guidelines linked and provided here, state on pg 37-38 under Limitations:

https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

Detection of viral RNA may not indicate the presence of infectious virus or that 2019-nCoV is the causative agent for clinical symptoms.

This test cannot rule out diseases caused by other bacterial or viral pathogens.

Birx explains that the PCR test generates false positives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdN--11btc0

no validation of infection of COVID.png - 209kB

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

RFClark - 7-17-2020 at 07:13 PM

The issue you raised with your original post was that other virus RNA would cause false positives, read what you posted. The Australians say that’s not true and the FDA doesn’t mention false positives by other virus RNA at all! This test is 2019-nCoV specific. Because of virus fragments some patients continue to test positive after they no longer have clinical symptoms!

Your 1st arrow means that the test can’t distinguish between whole active 2019-nCoV and inactive fragments of the same virus. That said the test results will be viewed in a clinical setting. If you hear hooves and your not in Africa Zebras shouldn’t be your first thought! That’s first year Med stuff,

Your 2nd arrow means that the test won’t show positive or negative for anything else!

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 07:58 PM

The Diagnostic Limitations note that the PCR Covid19 Diagnostic is unable to differentiate any pathogen, it's a signature for RNA virus, could be anything.

I appreciate that you are trying your best to sound authoritative, as though that is persuasive, but appeal to authority has no logical weight. You provide no evidence or data to counter what the guidelines state.

In addition I provided a link to Deborah Birx confirming that the RT PCR CoV Diagnostic generates False Positives and she has zero confidence in the reported results. Though certainly you could evaluate a person and identify symptoms if they existed and together tests and symptoms could add weight to diagnosis as positive for flu like illness.

Additionally, the serology tests that tests for Antibodies certainly can vary in quality, and type, qualitative or quantitative. The highest quality quantitative tests show how many covid19 antibodies and provide a reference number showing a value above a limit.

EXCEPT, even serology testing can show false positives and can not determine if the antibodies are specific to a recent Covid19 infection or from similar corona virus infection such as common cold.

Read the CDC Covid19 Serology testing guidelines

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-o...

"A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. However, there is a chance a positive result means that you have antibodies from an infection with a virus from the same family of viruses (called coronaviruses), such as the one that causes the common cold."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01u8Pi9mzcs

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

caj13 - 7-17-2020 at 08:07 PM

Gnukid,
I don't even know where to start with you. The websites you cite are right wing blogs, with less than a hundred views of the stories you linked too, and they were all complete misuse, misunderstandings of what Dr. Blix was saying, on top of a complete lack of understanding of the medical profession, research, and basic fact!

You apparently have no idea what this PCR test is, and what its for. You routinely mis-state and misrepresent information PRESUMABLY because you do not have the capacity , knowledge, education or experience to understand the scientific method, or medicine, or medical diagnosis, or infectious disease - etc etc etc.

Your personal agenda , well we have seen that played out here in the USA, and guess what, it's killing people, lots of people. This is not a political issue - its a public health issue. Your politics are getting people killed - make sure you understand that and own it - it belongs to you and numerous other individuals willing to allow people to needlessly die, because of your willful ignorance and political leanings - congratulations!

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 08:32 PM

Make up your own mind, I simply provide links and references to CDC, FDA, comments by Deborah Birx and Fauci in their own words academic abstracts, and news.

Clearly those sources clearly state that both PCR and Serological tests have false positive and false negatives.

Statistical reporting of Covid19 cases and deaths are significantly flawed and we should not be following those numbers so closely. Instead we should focus on individual general health and common approaches to increase immunity and treat flu like symptoms.

Healthy diet, exercise, fresh air, sunshine and social engagement are critical human immunity.

Notice that RF Clark and Caj13 consistently provide no sources, except happy fact check bs, no data, no evidence and use fallacious logic to muddy the waters, which clearly bely an agenda to mislead.

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 08:46 PM

BCS and BC are not CVOID19 testing extensively except now have a variety of home testing kits for serology, which have low reliability.

COVID19 cases and deaths and probable, suspected provisional based on phone call, questions, zero validation! Reporting of COVID19 statistics should not be taken too seriously nor used for decision making health policy.

People should focus on normalizing their routine, general health, sunshine, fresh air, exercise and broad healthy nutritious diet.

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 09:05 PM

COVID Vaccine Testing Results
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

Adverse reactions reported in 50% of it’s participants and 21% suffered SEVERE adverse reactions. All participants were healthy adults under 45. All antibodies faded in a short amount of time.

"Solicited systemic adverse events were more common after the second vaccination and occurred in 7 of 13 participants (54%) in the 25-μg group, all 15 in the 100-μg group, and all 14 in the 250-μg group, with 3 of those participants (21%) reporting one or more severe events."

"Local adverse events, when present, were nearly all mild or moderate, and pain at the injection site was common. Across both vaccinations, solicited systemic and local adverse events that occurred in more than half the participants included fatigue, chills, headache, myalgia, and pain at the injection site."

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

mtgoat666 - 7-17-2020 at 10:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

Vaccine Testing Results
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

Adverse reactions reported in 50% of it’s participants and 21% suffered SEVERE adverse reactions. All participants were healthy adults under 45. All antibodies faded in a short amount of time.

"Solicited systemic adverse events were more common after the second vaccination and occurred in 7 of 13 participants (54%) in the 25-μg group, all 15 in the 100-μg group, and all 14 in the 250-μg group, with 3 of those participants (21%) reporting one or more severe events."

"Local adverse events, when present, were nearly all mild or moderate, and pain at the injection site was common. Across both vaccinations, solicited systemic and local adverse events that occurred in more than half the participants included fatigue, chills, headache, myalgia, and pain at the injection site."

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

Paul,
You should wear a helmet when kiting, it appears repeated concussions have made you a bit loopy. Pauly boy, you got s trust fund, you can afford a good neurologist to mitigate some of your brain damage. Call your mommy, she will help you! Moms are always there to help their wayward sons!

RFClark - 7-17-2020 at 10:07 PM

gnukid, what exactly are your credentials to be “authoritative”? You’re the one who posted the original fake Australian document. I don’t claim to be an “expert” even though I did work in the medical field including clinical labs.

Medical technology is a “moving feast” It’s changing so fast that it’s difficult to even read the abstracts. That said I do read many. I’m interested because this disease is new, possibly engineered and definitely political. My friends, family and myself could be infected.

The “experts” Were running to try and keep up as a result a lot of what they said changed and some was Just wrong. Worse some were wrong for political reasons which should never be condoned. The fact that it’s not only condoned but encouraged speaks volumes about our society.

I can write with lots of citations it’s what I was paid for. I didn’t realize these posts were peer reviewed. I’ll keep it in mind moving forward.

gnukid - 7-17-2020 at 10:44 PM

The COVID19 positive case and deaths are over-reported and exaggerated due to incentivized amplification, without validation. When you get to the point when the data is grossly incorrect, due to negligence, with fore-knowledge that is fraud which is a felony and is punishable with prison.

In regard to BCS, BN, I spent the entire time on the ground working with pueblos, hospitals, doctors, dept de Salud, only as a friend and volunteer. I believed there was a crisis, I spent day in and day out, driving people to the doctor, bringing food, helping out where possible.

The restrictions are a crisis. Mexicans out of work is devastating. Of course many or most I know continued to work some never closed business, but many did. Soon though it became clear something didn't add up. When you visit pueblos and no one is actually sick or dying, yet there are overwhelming restrictions on mobility, and businesses yet Walmart and Homedepot are wide open, it starts to raise questions, so we began to do research, there is no testing, there is incentivisation for positive cases and restrictions.

We looked at those who died, they had pre-existing severe health conditions and had been ill for a long time prior to the their death. No validation of covid as a unique illness exists through on the ground testing or autoposy.

So we began to dialogue, talk with doctors, who confirmed there is no validated pandemic, but there is an incentivized amplification of positive suspected provisionally for covid19? Even still the numbers are not significant.Hmm.

I work in health care, I work in data that supports research and data collection. There is no validated data set to support a covid pandemic, yet there is a preplanned simulation, years of planning and talking points, infographics models, discussion on how to use a pending pandemic corona virus as a catalyst for Global Reset as part of the Industry 4.0.

I shared many academic abstracts, perhaps thousands of formal gov and edu sources unraveling the fraud, including from CDC, HHS, FDA, etc, and they openly admit to gross errors, failures, no evidence for pandemic, Deborah Birx says it cleary on live TV, people who die in a car crash are marked as cause of death from Covid due to simplified guidelines.

There are many agendas underway, its perhaps more complex than the average TV watcher cares to be aware of, though, we are unraveling the fraud and revealing the truth. Human immunity shielding responds to trillions of protein causing virus, thousands of times second RNA is replicated and antibodies are produced. For a millennia humans have been successful, while vaccines such as the common flu vaccine have no evidence of efficacy across demographics, especially for seniors.

Flu vaccine generated 177,000+ adverse effects last year and has no evidence of success. Actual excess deaths from flu in the USA alone are not in the thousands after validation they are in the hundreds according the VAERS CDC, as I shared.

There is evidence of a biopharma fraud to compel changing human behavior that has no basis in historical response, which has caused significant harm and precipitated early death by encouraging isolation of geriatrics.

Bill Gates has said that he promotes vaccines, even though they might not work and there is high risk, 700,000 could die from the new covid vaccine because it's rushed and is not well tested. He also wants to use recombinant DNA sequencing to alter the human species over time to create a cyber human that can be programmed often and easily, to be monitored, and be constantly connected to AI. Gates has a long family tradition in eugenics and says he wants to reduce population with vaccines.

Anyone can provide evidence of an islolated COVID live virus infection in a test if it exists, and show an autopsy of a death and show how that death was caused by COVID19?

Anyone can provide any evidence of a pandemic that is significantly different from typical flu season if they have it from academic r gov sources?

Anyone can contribute a point of view and support with three main points and draw a conclusion?

Take time to gather your thoughts and make a logical contribution to demonstrate your proof of a pandemic in Baja?

Anecdotal Background

Gates on Covid Vaccine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjgbMib36do

The New Cold War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taAHtUDo18Q

Recombinant DNA Vaccine Risk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC6xn1pZp6E

Newsom Sends a Billion Dollars ti China
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/newsom-s-secretive-1...

Assault Weapons parts seized being smuggled into USA from China
www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-media-release/10800-assault-weapo...

Fraudulent Covid reporting being held liable
www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/falwells-liber...

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

Skipjack Joe - 7-18-2020 at 05:18 AM

The above information is for an antibody test, not a viral test. It's being used by the poster to discredit the viral test as performed by PCR. The CDC clearly states that this is an unreliable antibody test and recommends that a viral test be used. The poster stripped out both the title of the test and the link to the viral test which is being recommended in the link the poster provided.

As such, the above information does not support the initial post because it has nothing to do with it. The initial post refers to the usage of PCR to determine the gene sequence of RNA of the virus. The followup is an antibody test that measures the IgG and IgM antibodies in an individual that had the virus at one time.

The poster has falsified CDC information by omission in order to prove his initial point.

gnukid - 7-18-2020 at 06:45 AM

Skipper Jack, Thank you for beginning to pay attention.

The simple point made is that BOTH PCR Covid19 Diagnostic test for infection and Serological test for evidence of post infection antibodies have variable reliability, false positives and false negatives. PCR test for diagnostic to identify infection of Covid19 is far more unreliable, since it is a general test for viral pathogen not specific to COVID19. Serological test as well could show positive for any other similar viral antibodies, since we produce general and specific antibodies, and there are many corona viruses including the common cold.

COVID Testing has 50% chance of being wrong

COVID Testing reporting has been conflating multiple tests and both PCR and serological per person, amplifying results through cumulative counts per person. Once a person enters the health system as positive they could be tested multiple times a day for weeks, those tests are cumulative, exponentially amplifying reporting.

In many cases no testing is conducted, an inquiry about suspected COVID19 is reported as suspected provisional positive and never revised even if the person is negative later.

CDC provisional excess deaths week to week report states negative counts are zeroed out, so no negative numbers are allowed and only positive, artificially skewing the numbers upward, actual excess deaths year to year are negative, while provisional "artificial" inflation produces a much higher number.

How Could the CDC Make That Mistake?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-s...

CDC COVID Gross Reporting Errors
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/politics/coronavirus-t...

Florida Grossly Inflated Reporting
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-florid...

The CDC is lumping positive COVID-19 viral and antibody tests together. Here's why that's bad.
https://www.livescience.com/cdc-combined-covid-19-diagnostic...

False Positive and False Negatives skew Covid reporting
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/05/07/this...

Huge COVID Case-Counting Deception at the CDC
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/jon-rappoport/huge-covid...

‘It’s just cuckoo’: state’s latest data mishap causes critics to cry foul
https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/just...

Inaccurate reporting of cause of deaths
https://www.king5.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/washin...

Mass admits reporting errors
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mass-acknowledges-reportin...

Labs disregard negative tests
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronaviru...

We could be vastly overestimating the death rate for COVID-19. Here's why
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/we-could-be-vastly-ov...

Nevada Pledges to correct reporting errors
https://www.rgj.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/29/nevada-of...

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

elgatoloco - 7-18-2020 at 07:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

I didn’t realize these posts were peer reviewed.

Oh, but they are, they are!

And we "peers" here are eminently qualified...

to review tire pressures and subtleties of every bar up and down the Peninsula. :lol:

Dude. You forgot tacos. Oh and PIZZA! :dudette:

pacificobob - 7-18-2020 at 08:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

Gnukid,
I don't even know where to start with you. The websites you cite are right wing blogs, with less than a hundred views of the stories you linked too, and they were all complete misuse, misunderstandings of what Dr. Blix was saying, on top of a complete lack of understanding of the medical profession, research, and basic fact!

You apparently have no idea what this PCR test is, and what its for. You routinely mis-state and misrepresent information PRESUMABLY because you do not have the capacity , knowledge, education or experience to understand the scientific method, or medicine, or medical diagnosis, or infectious disease - etc etc etc.

Your personal agenda , well we have seen that played out here in the USA, and guess what, it's killing people, lots of people. This is not a political issue - its a public health issue. Your politics are getting people killed - make sure you understand that and own it - it belongs to you and numerous other individuals willing to allow people to needlessly die, because of your willful ignorance and political leanings - congratulations!

well stated and spot on.

gnukid - 7-18-2020 at 08:20 AM

Article from April remains prescient - Selling a
A Viral Pandemic Story Precipitated Early Deaths in Geriatrics

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-i...

gnukid - 7-18-2020 at 08:23 AM

COVID Vaccine Testing Results

Read the entire article to be informed about the vaccine being produced on a fast track

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

"Adverse reactions reported in 50% of it’s participants and 21% suffered SEVERE adverse reactions. All participants were healthy adults under 45. All antibodies faded in a short amount of time.

Now, imagine if you will, that you are are already at risk for Covid 19 and other infections because of an existing health condition or compromised immune system. What do you reckon the odds are you would have an adverse reaction to this vaccine?" Melissa Pellegrini.

"Solicited systemic adverse events were more common after the second vaccination and occurred in 7 of 13 participants (54%) in the 25-μg group, all 15 in the 100-μg group, and all 14 in the 250-μg group, with 3 of those participants (21%) reporting one or more severe events."

"Local adverse events, when present, were nearly all mild or moderate, and pain at the injection site was common. Across both vaccinations, solicited systemic and local adverse events that occurred in more than half the participants included fatigue, chills, headache, myalgia, and pain at the injection site."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

SFandH - 7-18-2020 at 08:52 AM

Phase 1 (of 3) test on 45 adults of an experimental vaccine that in fact did produce immune responses.

Determining dosage and observing side effects were part of the experiment.

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by SFandH]

gnukid - 7-18-2020 at 09:11 AM

People are dying in hospitals, a portion of our community dies each year, primarily seniors and geriatrics from pre-existing illness. Excess deaths are in the same range year to year for USA, meaning no increase in excess deaths. Shocking to me to see the intentional confusion while the overall data shows excess deaths patterns are the same year year, no large increase, only a conflation and mis-categorization and intentional amplification of association to covid for provisional suspected, but not verified as actual.

In the case of severe illness associated to difficulty breathing the majority are attributed to pulmonary illness and pneumonia as causes of death, according to CDC, WHO year to year, except this year those same number of cases are conflated as from covid, while there is no isolated diagnosis of covid, it's an intentional conflation to confuse and create a pandemic.

There are also tuberculosis deaths, heart disease, cancer etc. many causes of deaths. Although we are told flu is the cause of death in many thousands each year, later on, flu is ruled out as a cause of death in most cases and very few remain, less than 1000 for the entire USA as opposed to the thousands, but few pay attention. The point is the data from CDC, WHO etc. clearly states the data is intentionally conflated today and is not an accurate representation, there is no accurate diagnosis of covid, nor attribution to covid.

CDC, WHO, institutional and academic studies are not my opinion, not my data, I point out CDC and WHO official statements, clearly, there is no data or evidence that there is a unique isolated covid that is causing pandemic death today, though certainly people do have illnesses, flu like symptoms, corona viruses, stress, and many are the result of poor general health and failures in nutrition, stress, failure of health care professionals to properly diagnose and treat illnesses.

It's unfortunate that sharing the source data to show conflicts in the data and conclusions, leads to an aggressive position to attack, while choosing a position of ignorance. Pay close attention to the data and evidence and decide for yourself.

Furthermore, the primary impetus for my own research and sharing is that SENIORS AND GERIATRICS ARE ISOLATED AND ABANDONED precipitating early death. I have spent the majority of my time and energy, over 6 months actively engaging and encouraging people to go and visit and care for their family members who are isolated and abandoned and suffering. I drove to the doctor many times and provided care, made soups etc.

I am going to continue to advocate for seniors and geriatrics, you are welcome to unfriend or unfollow me. Please direct your thinking and energy to be productive and positive to take action to care for our families and communities and educate yourself, isolation is harmful and doesn't reduce risk it increases risk to health and immunity.

The primary risk to health we are witnessing is stress, agitation, isolation and depression as a result of fear and misinformation associated to a media narrative not based on evidence or data. Most importantly, focus on personal health, 90 essential vitamins, minerals, amino acids, exercise, fresh air and sunshine. Isolation is extremely harmful.

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]

Skipjack Joe - 7-18-2020 at 09:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

Skipper Jack,

Thank you for beginning to pay attention.

Why did you use CDC quotes on antibody tests for a post on viral tests?

That was unethical. You tried to mislead your readers. And now you say it doesn't matter because they're the same? Yes, it matters. Lying always matters, no matter the cause.

gnukid - 7-18-2020 at 09:55 AM

SkipJack

Completely false conflation. The issue is not you or me, The topic is accuracy of COVID19 PCR viral infection testing and post infection Serological Testing accuracy, both of which have degrees of false positive according to their documentation and to institutional health leaders. In addition those two test types have been conflated at times, in addition to multiple tests of the same person conflated, resulting in amplification.

It is clear, the Skip Jack has a long tradition of fallacious logic, trolling posts, to promote his personal political agenda, which is apparently called curmdgeonism.

Focus on personal health, your personal health, make up your own mind, if you want to take tests, or wear a mask, or isolate go right ahead. If you feel you may need to review long term pre-existng conditions or a new symptom, don't wait to reach out to your doctor.

Be well, my fellow Nomad, your health is a priority.

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

Skipper Jack,

Thank you for beginning to pay attention.

Skipjack Joe - 7-18-2020 at 10:05 AM

No gnukid. The issue is a post of false information followed by your doctored information to support false information. No only was the original post a lie someone created but then you intentionally took truthful information and created a lie out of it. As far as I know this is a first even for you.

mtgoat666 - 7-18-2020 at 03:30 PM

This whole usa epidemic would be over by now if the national leadership had implemented mandatory nationwide social distancing with mandatory masks for 6 week period.

Instead, our leaderless country will endure 1+ year of epidemic... Dont want the public to give up their right to be infected and their right to infect others!

RFClark - 7-18-2020 at 07:49 PM

Hay Goat,

Did you ever read the 10th Amendment? (Probably Not!) the President can’t do that.

The President might have declared Martial Law and then done it but my guess is some Judge in Hawaii would have declared it unconstitutional and blocked him! Part of the U.S. had habeas corpus suspended by Lincoln in 1861.

The Federal Court blocked Lincoln and Congress was required to pass the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act in 1863. A similar law would likely have been needed in this case. You might ask Speaker Nancy why she didn’t do that. You might ask some of the Governors why they didn’t do that either!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_Corpus_Suspension_Act_(1863)

mtgoat666 - 7-18-2020 at 08:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Hay Goat,

Did you ever read the 10th Amendment? (Probably Not!) the President can’t do that.

The President might have declared Martial Law and then done it but my guess is some Judge in Hawaii would have declared it unconstitutional and blocked him! Part of the U.S. had habeas corpus suspended by Lincoln in 1861.

The Federal Court blocked Lincoln and Congress was required to pass the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act in 1863. A similar law would likely have been needed in this case. You might ask Speaker Nancy why she didn’t do that. You might ask some of the Governors why they didn’t do that either!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_Corpus_Suspension_Act_(1863)

You deserve what you get. Dont lick the doorknobs!

RFClark - 7-18-2020 at 10:21 PM

Goat,

If you don’t like the Constitution, change the Constitution. I’m fine with that as long as you have the votes! Until you have the votes to change it legally. Your “cure” is worse than the disease! The last Civil war cost about 10% of our population. Today that’s about 40 million Americans. Think about that!

BajaTed - 7-23-2020 at 06:52 AM

If you have had a colonoscopy recently, then you've been chipped.

Due to my Aryan DNA, the chip was an enhanced version that is transmitting my genomic code to fabricate human clones.....