BajaNomad

Can you visit Baja now? Maybe. Here’s what you need to know. (latimes)

BajaNomad - 7-23-2020 at 08:38 PM

--
Christopher Reynolds
JULY 22, 2020

Los Cabos, Mexico — Is this the time for a vacation in Baja?

Absolutely not, says California’s governor, backed by legions of local and state health officials who discourage nonessential travel and are alarmed by the continued spread of COVID-19 on both sides of the border.

Yes, say scores of Mexican hoteliers and travel industry workers, desperate for income and eager to explain new safety measures.

Check with the U.S. government, and the answer depends on which agency you ask — and whether you’re driving or flying.

Meanwhile, scores of hotels in Baja California have opened in recent weeks, betting that thousands of Americans are ready to head south. Airlines are adding Baja flights too, even as Canada and much of Europe have banned U.S. tourists, and the U.S. has banned tourists from much of Europe.

Baja California Sur’s governor, Carlos Mendoza Davis, said these reopening rules would stay in effect despite infection rates that have pushed the peninsula’s southern half into the most severe category in the Mexican Ministry of Health’s COVID-19 risk rankings.

Baja California Sur includes Los Cabos, La Paz, Loreto and the southern portion of the Baja peninsula. The northern portion of the peninsula is the state of Baja California, which includes Tijuana, Ensenada and Mexicali.

With infections and deaths rising fast in the U.S. and Mexico and a big chunk of the Baja peninsula’s economy at stake, here are some questions and answers to consider.

What do U.S. agencies say? If you’re flying from LAX to Los Cabos, you’re defying the advice of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which warns “against nonessential international travel” because it “increases your chances of getting and spreading” COVID-19.

You’re also ignoring the U.S. State Department’s global health advisory, which advises U.S. citizens to “avoid all international travel due to the global impact of COVID-19.”

But as long as you fly, you’re not breaking any laws. When the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and Mexico agreed in March to forbid nonessential travel across their borders, the ban included cars, commuter rail and ferry travel, but it left out travel by “air, rail or sea.”

U.S. and Mexican officials agreed last week to renew that pact through Aug. 20.

Many government and media sources have glided over the air/land travel distinction. On June 16, for instance, the Department of Homeland Security issued a fact sheet saying that U.S. agreements with Mexico and Canada “limit all nonessential travel across borders,” with no mention of flights.

“That is a confusion in the mind-set of the potential travelers,” Los Cabos Tourist Board’s managing director, Rodrigo Esponda, said Thursday.

Asked about this provision, the U.S. State Department referred emails to the Department of Homeland Security, which did not respond.

How much is reopening in southern Baja? Since early June, 72 of 85 major hotels have opened in Los Cabos, many promising stricter safety standards and more flexible reservations. Esponda estimated that room prices are largely unchanged from pre-pandemic levels, with an average daily rate of about $300.

Government officials have urged people to wear cubrebocas in public areas. The Los Cabos Tourism Board said visitors should expect to answer a health questionnaire and have their temperature taken at the airport and at 22 local beaches where authorities say they are enforcing limits on crowding.

Though bars that don’t serve food are closed, Esponda said 16 of the area’s 18 golf courses and about 300 of its 2,000 restaurants are now open.

Hotels, allowed to rent up to 30% of their rooms, have already reached 20% occupancy, Esponda said, and roughly two of every five guests are from California.

Novel coronavirus infections, however, have increased in recent weeks. In municipalities outside Los Cabos, including La Paz, Comondú and Mulegé, authorities have closed beaches.

“It was completely logical, expected and planned that there would be a slight increase in the number of cases in Los Cabos,” Esponda said.

“It’s a very tricky situation, and we’re at the confluence of health and the economy,” said Bryan Jáuregui, who co-owns Los Colibris Casitas in the beach town of Todos Santos.

Jáuregui, whose guests in summer are mostly from Mexico, said she and others in the area have had dual missions: adding new workplace health measures and helping local charities feed thousands of families in Los Cabos, Todos Santos and beyond whose tourism jobs have not yet returned.

How do coronavirus infection rates compare among California, Baja California and Baja California Sur?

California has the worst rate of recent reported infections per capita, followed by Baja California Sur and then Baja California.

In the state of Baja California (the more populous northern half of the peninsula), a New York Times tally showed reported 12,053 cases and 2,397 deaths as of July 21, including 35 new cases per 100,000 people in the previous seven days.
http://www.bajacalifornia.gob.mx/coronavirus

In Baja California Sur, the same count showed 3,217 cases and 118 deaths, including 100 new cases per 100,000 people in the previous seven days.
https://coronavirus.bcs.gob.mx/english/

Meanwhile, in California, the July 21 count showed 400,195 cases and 7,764 deaths, including 162 new cases per 100,000 people in the previous seven days.

If Californians travel, the state’s Department of Public Health‘s public affairs office said, “It should be for urgent matters or if such travel is essential to your permitted work. Avoid travelling long distances for vacations or pleasure as much as possible. This is to slow the spread of the coronavirus.”

Who is flying between LAX and Los Cabos? In April, just 1,200 international passengers arrived at Los Cabos airport, followed by 1,550 in May, by the count of Grupo Aeroportuario del Pacífico. The number in June was 11,350 — well short of the 158,650 that arrived in June 2019, but rising fast.

By early July, Alaska, American and Delta were flying daily between LAX and Los Cabos. Alaska (which also flies to Los Cabos from San Jose and San Diego and from LAX to Loreto twice weekly) in August plans to add a San Francisco-Los Cabos flight and a second LAX-Los Cabos flight. United on Aug. 3 will start flying five times a week between Los Cabos and LAX, and also between Los Cabos and San Francisco.

Are restrictions the same in Baja and Baja Sur? No. As in the U.S., health assessments and pandemic rules vary between states and within states and have changed frequently. However, 30% capacity limits are common in hotels and restaurants in both states. In Baja California state, which includes Tijuana, Rosarito, Ensenada and Guadalupe Valley wine country, higher rates of infection and death in the spring prompted tighter federal restrictions. In Ensenada, transit was limited and a curfew imposed.

On July 15, Rosarito officials announced that all municipal beaches would be closed on Saturdays and Sundays, with limited open hours on weekdays, until further notice.

“Different municipalities are doing different things,” said Shauna Hill, customer service manager at Baja Bound Mexican Insurance, which sells policies online to Americans driving across the border. Because things change so frequently, Hill suggested prospective visitors follow social media posts by local governments.

What about U.S.-Baja cruises? Not this summer. The CDC has had a “no sail order” in effect in U.S. waters since March; it is expected to last at least through Sept. 30.

How many people are driving across the border? U.S. Transportation Department statistics show that in May, more than 1 million vehicles crossed into the U.S. at San Ysidro. That’s less than half as many as in May 2019, but suggests that many bi-national commuters in San Diego and Tijuana have resumed their cross-border journeys. (The U.S. Transportation Department doesn’t count vehicles driving into Mexico.)

What about crime? By Mexican government count, Tijuana was the nation’s No. 1 homicide site in 2019. The city, with 1.3 million residents, suffered more than 2,100 homicides last year. Los Angeles, with 4 million residents, had fewer than 300 last year. State-by-state homicide statistics for the first half of 2020 show show Baja California Sur among those with the fewest killings and Baja California among those with the most.
--
https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2020-07-22/can-you-vaca...

CaboMagic - 7-24-2020 at 07:47 AM

As always, we surely do thank you Doug for maintaining this forum as a Means (;) to provide and share information!

Tourism is life's blood - for us that's primarily Cabo San Lucas, San Jose del Cabo, Todos Santos, Los Barilles, East Cape, La Paz.

In Cabo where our operations are, strict protocols are in place and self-enforced because everyone wants to be able to do what they do - be it work at a hotel/resort, restaurant, or be a crew on a fishing charter.

Wishing all good health .. be safe be kind and be healthy. L&T

Ateo - 7-24-2020 at 08:35 AM

A few things to think about here for travelers from around the world to the Baja peninsula....

Do you want to be 1000’s of miles away from home IF you were to get sick and inundate the local hospitals in Baja?

Although these tourist resorts are probably doing their best to enforce social distancing rules and mask wearing, you just can’t control human beings on that level. There will always be the occasional jerk who hops on the elevator with you and your family (after reading those resort posted warning signs) without a mask then claims Covid isn’t real.

thebajarunner - 7-24-2020 at 08:57 AM

Hotel Coral in Ensenada continues to batter me with daily special offers.
Obviously someone down there wants us back.
Sure wish that I could feel up to it.
Right now sticking pretty close to home
(And home ain't so bad right here, the Sierras 30 minutes away, Yosemite just an hour. Keeping plenty of distance, but still getting into the out of doors.)

shari - 7-24-2020 at 03:48 PM

The cases in the municipality of Mulege are mostly outbreaks in places like the mine in Sta. Rosalia and the salt works in Guerrero Negro...places where lots of people are working.

It's not the tourists bringing it to the towns but the locals travel all over the place visiting family and friends from tip to tip of the peninsula. Now that many arent working, there is even more traveling to and fro.
It's not the tourist that are the problem here in the small towns.

SFandH - 7-24-2020 at 04:35 PM

I think it is inevitable, the more tourists the more infections. That sure looks to be true in Los Cabos and La Paz.

We're hoping to return to BCS in October. And it's going to be difficult to not fall back into the old and fun habit of socializing in the evenings. Even if bars and restaurants are open, we're staying out. Restaurant food to go.

[Edited on 7-24-2020 by SFandH]

David K - 7-24-2020 at 04:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by shari  
The cases in the municipality of Mulege are mostly outbreaks in places like the mine in Sta. Rosalia and the salt works in Guerrero Negro...places where lots of people are working.

It's not the tourists bringing it to the towns but the locals travel all over the place visiting family and friends from tip to tip of the peninsula. Now that many arent working, there is even more traveling to and fro.
It's not the tourist that are the problem here in the small towns.



BINGO!
Thanks for the refreshing facts, Shari. I hope you and your family stay well and free from the hysteria.

Ateo - 7-24-2020 at 06:04 PM

There have been 642,000 people killed by this virus. That number is sure to go higher, just as it has, every day, until people learn to wear a mask, wash their hands, social distance, and then hopefully science will save our ahhsssees with a vaccine soon.

Hope for the best....

Bajazly - 7-24-2020 at 08:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by shari  
The cases in the municipality of Mulege are mostly outbreaks in places like the mine in Sta. Rosalia and the salt works in Guerrero Negro...places where lots of people are working.

It's not the tourists bringing it to the towns but the locals travel all over the place visiting family and friends from tip to tip of the peninsula. Now that many arent working, there is even more traveling to and fro.
It's not the tourist that are the problem here in the small towns.



Isn't one a tourist when one travels? So it matters not from where you are, traveling around within your state or country still makes you a tourist. More accurately in may be said that gringos from the states MAY not be contributing to the spread but they ain't setting any lowball records up there so...

BajaNomad - 7-25-2020 at 10:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly  

Isn't one a tourist when one travels?


--
You may use the words "tourist" and "traveler" interchangeably, but to some people in the travel community, these titles have different implications...

Tourists
It's usually easy for locals to spot a tourist among them. A tourist may carry a camera, guidebook and map at all times and wear the same clothing he'd wear at home. Tourists tend to stay in their comfort zones a bit; they may speak only English instead of trying to learn phrases in the local language; stick to major cities instead of venturing to smaller towns or off-the-beaten-path locales; and stay in areas where the amenities are similar to what they have at home.

Travelers
Generally speaking, someone who considers himself a traveler will try to immerse himself in the local culture rather than standing out. If you're a traveler, you may try to explore the less-traveled areas and explore locations where tourism doesn't drive the economy. You'll interact with locals. Your goals for a trip will be to learn and experience new things, rather than to take a relaxing break from everyday life. A traveler may consider a trip a journey rather than a vacation.
--

https://traveltips.usatoday.com/differences-between-tourist-...

https://www.google.com/search?q=tourist+vs+traveler



[Edited on 7-26-2020 by BajaNomad]

David K - 7-26-2020 at 06:53 AM

Both "tourists" and "travelers" are people from somewhere else, and that is clearly what Shari was describing.

Doug describes the two types of visitors to Mexico well.
A note: Travelers (like me) get 'Tourist Cards' when crossing the border (FMM). :biggrin:

weebray - 7-26-2020 at 08:03 AM

Udder hogwash. Various "tourist council's" (insert your own name) are giving Cabo and La Paz grandios awards for "sanitary protocols etc. etc. Here in the trenches, last night, a cruise down the malecon reveled packed bars, 20+ active participants at skate board park and a closed boardwalk leaving the sidewalk on the other side of the street jammed up with hawkers and exhibitionists. Masks were an oddity. Simple fact is covid rules and, devestating as it may be, everything needs to shut down now and people need to stop leaving their own homes. People all over the world are stupid and last night proved it. Business owners everywhere and on this forum need to stop trying to sugar coat the problem.

BajaTed - 7-26-2020 at 08:46 AM

All of the states that are hot are aligned with the Interstate 5 and Interstate 10 Highways that are travel bottlenecks in this part of the country.

The macro issue of traveling people was the biggest concern of the 1918 pandemic, not the micro issue of individual masks.

Rant over, where's my Lone Star......

weebray - 7-26-2020 at 09:50 AM

Happy to buy you a beer Ted and you don't need a mask either. Just stay home.

LancairDriver - 7-26-2020 at 10:04 AM

Liberal hero Bill Maher has some advise for his followers on dealing with COVID 19

https://en.as.com/en/2020/05/14/videos/1589446304_213362.htm...

Lee - 7-26-2020 at 11:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  
Liberal hero Bill Maher has some advise for his followers on dealing with COVID 19

https://en.as.com/en/2020/05/14/videos/1589446304_213362.htm...


Did you watch this? You must be a liberal. I was good for 10 seconds.

Trolling with dog whistles, here? Let's turn the virus into a political debate.

LancairDriver - 7-26-2020 at 12:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  
Liberal hero Bill Maher has some advise for his followers on dealing with COVID 19

https://en.as.com/en/2020/05/14/videos/1589446304_213362.htm...


Did you watch this? You must be a liberal. I was good for 10 seconds.

10 seconds? The limit of your attention span?
I’m about as far from liberal as you can get.
In case it has escaped your attention span, the virus is already a political debate.

Trolling with dog whistles, here? Let's turn the virus into a political debate.



[Edited on 7-26-2020 by LancairDriver]

[Edited on 7-26-2020 by LancairDriver]

weebray - 7-26-2020 at 03:04 PM

Some were trying to politicize the issue but truly it's turning in to an economic issue. I totally understand the squeeze many industries are in. My son has a restaurant in LA and it's teetering. How many lives do we trade for the economy? How critical is surfing, bar hopping, opulent buffets or sportfishing to our lives? No one is starving and the safety net in Mexico is strong. Here in Mexico the dirt pimps and devolepers are starting to feel the pinch but have a lot of fat to protect them for the near future. Still they rattle the cage to open the gates.

JZ - 7-26-2020 at 03:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
Udder hogwash. Various "tourist council's" (insert your own name) are giving Cabo and La Paz grandios awards for "sanitary protocols etc. etc. Here in the trenches, last night, a cruise down the malecon reveled packed bars, 20+ active participants at skate board park and a closed boardwalk leaving the sidewalk on the other side of the street jammed up with hawkers and exhibitionists. Masks were an oddity. Simple fact is covid rules and, devestating as it may be, everything needs to shut down now and people need to stop leaving their own homes. People all over the world are stupid and last night proved it. Business owners everywhere and on this forum need to stop trying to sugar coat the problem.


The virus isn't going away. A vaccine isn't coming soon.

Life has to go on. Kids need to go back to school. Businesses need to open. Football needs to be played.

Ppl at risk need to stay home or be extra safe when they venture out. Those are just the hard cold facts. Otherwise, we will all die.



[Edited on 7-26-2020 by JZ]

JZ - 7-26-2020 at 03:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  
Liberal hero Bill Maher has some advise for his followers on dealing with COVID 19

https://en.as.com/en/2020/05/14/videos/1589446304_213362.htm...







[Edited on 7-26-2020 by JZ]

chippy - 7-26-2020 at 03:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
Some were trying to politicize the issue but truly it's turning in to an economic issue. I totally understand the squeeze many industries are in. My son has a restaurant in LA and it's teetering. How many lives do we trade for the economy? How critical is surfing, bar hopping, opulent buffets or sportfishing to our lives? No one is starving and the safety net in Mexico is strong. Here in Mexico the dirt pimps and devolepers are starting to feel the pinch but have a lot of fat to protect them for the near future. Still they rattle the cage to open the gates.


"No one is starving and the safety net is strong in Mexico"? I guess you´re speaking of a different Mexico than where I live. Please elaborate on this.

JZ - 7-26-2020 at 04:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chippy  


"No one is starving and the safety net is strong in Mexico"? I guess you´re speaking of a different Mexico than where I live. Please elaborate on this.


You mean they aren't getting $600/week to live on?

Alm - 7-26-2020 at 04:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by shari  

It's not the tourists bringing it to the towns but the locals travel all over the place visiting family and friends from tip to tip of the peninsula. Now that many arent working, there is even more traveling to and fro.
It's not the tourist that are the problem here in the small towns.

Tourists bring their share of infection.
But I agree that in summer Mexicans are major contributors - including Mexican visitors from the mainland, they drive often to Baja Norte. There are weekenders tourists. Visiting relatives is a popular past time too, and they are very defensive about it. The attitude is not unlike Americans in the border area - not whether it's legal/illegal but how to get through the checkpoints. Poor understanding of what the epidemic is about, plus the (imaginary) right to visit "la familia" across the checkpoint or even across the border, if he/she is a double citizen.

Alm - 7-26-2020 at 04:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

Ppl at risk need to stay home or be extra safe when they venture out.

If you're not already infected, you are at risk when you venturing out without following adequate safety measures.

Lee - 7-26-2020 at 04:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  

10 seconds? The limit of your attention span?
I’m about as far from liberal as you can get.
In case it has escaped your attention span, the virus is already a political debate.


I have NO attention span for comics who aren't funny, and perpetuate the virus as political fodder.

Your comment that Maher is a liberal hero is bullshlt. Anything else?

Try OT if you're looking for an argument about the virus and politics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, you're a trumpee and plan to vote for a loser and liar. Tell me you're not part of the problem in this country?

JZ - 7-26-2020 at 05:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

Ppl at risk need to stay home or be extra safe when they venture out.

If you're not already infected, you are at risk when you venturing out without following adequate safety measures.


Naw. It doesn't have an 8% death rate as you have told us all on here.

Alm - 7-26-2020 at 06:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

Naw. It doesn't have an 8% death rate...

I wish I knew what you are trying to say.

There is case fatality rate - different for different patient categories and varying between the countries, there is a risk of infection and then there is a risk of long term complications. One must be an i.diot to think that he is sheltered from all of this.

Case fatality in Mexico is currently 11%.

[Edited on 7-27-2020 by Alm]

mtgoat666 - 7-26-2020 at 08:46 PM

Why are you arguing about stats? Dont you already know its a deadly disease and only fools dont take care?
If people are calling the disease a nothing burger, then flock them, cut them out of your life and dont shed s tear if they die

JZ - 7-26-2020 at 09:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  


I wish I knew what you are trying to say.

There is case fatality rate - different for different patient categories and varying between the countries, there is a risk of infection and then there is a risk of long term complications. One must be an i.diot to think that he is sheltered from all of this.

Case fatality in Mexico is currently 11%.



a) You told us a month ago that 5% of Americans who get it, 8% of Canadians, and 11% of Mexicans will die. Don't try your new term of "case fatality rate" on us now.

b) You told us not to buy rice and beans in Bahia de Los Angeles because "there are rocks in them."

JZ - 7-26-2020 at 09:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Why are you arguing about stats? Dont you already know its a deadly disease and only fools dont take care?
If people are calling the disease a nothing burger, then flock them, cut them out of your life and dont shed s tear if they die


It's not a nothing burger. But life must go on. Shutting down won't solve the problem.

I'm hopping on a flight to Florida in about 10 days. Live life, we don't have that much time in this world.

gnukid - 7-26-2020 at 09:28 PM

Wide open

SFandH - 7-27-2020 at 05:53 AM

Case Fatality Rate - Mexico

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/mexico?countr...

weebray - 7-27-2020 at 07:09 AM

I don't plan to argue with stupid people, it's pointless. Fact is, here o the ground peolple are helping other people survive. I'm not going to pump my ego here but those of us with are helping those of us without. Poverty is not something that has been greatly exaserbated by covid, it's always been here. No one is dying because commerical recreation is suspended and they can't go to the beach. Trust me, people are stepping up and helping others. If you are in the La Paz area and are starving pm me. BTW, stories around here talk of unusual sightings of marine life not seen for many years. I wonder if there is a link?

gnukid - 7-27-2020 at 07:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
I don't plan to argue with stupid people, it's pointless. Fact is, here o the ground peolple are helping other people survive. I'm not going to pump my ego here but those of us with are helping those of us without. Poverty is not something that has been greatly exaserbated by covid, it's always been here. No one is dying because commerical recreation is suspended and they can't go to the beach. Trust me, people are stepping up and helping others. If you are in the La Paz area and are starving pm me. BTW, stories around here talk of unusual sightings of marine life not seen for many years. I wonder if there is a link?


Yes, people are helping each other tremendously. Work exists for those seeking it. FYI Commercial Tourism is open for guided panga tours, sport fishing, Moto tours, hotels are open in some limited capacity beach front restaurants, flights are running to SJD, transit is open etc.

Here providers of guided pang tours negotiate successfully for right to return to work with proper procedures. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=297855191272696


Here are some fish reports on FB, there have been news stories about salmon being caught in the Sea of Cortez?https://www.facebook.com/groups/278561439852318/


[Edited on 7-27-2020 by gnukid]

Lee - 7-27-2020 at 12:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
I don't plan to argue with stupid people, it's pointless. Fact is, here o the ground peolple are helping other people survive. I'm not going to pump my ego here but those of us with are helping those of us without. Poverty is not something that has been greatly exaserbated by covid, it's always been here. No one is dying because commerical recreation is suspended and they can't go to the beach. Trust me, people are stepping up and helping others. If you are in the La Paz area and are starving pm me. BTW, stories around here talk of unusual sightings of marine life not seen for many years. I wonder if there is a link?


Yes, people are helping each other tremendously. Work exists for those seeking it. FYI Commercial Tourism is open for guided panga tours, sport fishing, Moto tours, hotels are open in some limited capacity beach front restaurants, flights are running to SJD, transit is open etc.

Here providers of guided pang tours negotiate successfully for right to return to work with proper procedures. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=297855191272696


Here are some fish reports on FB, there have been news stories about salmon being caught in the Sea of Cortez?https://www.facebook.com/groups/278561439852318/


[Edited on 7-27-2020 by gnukid]


So, is anyone (gringoes/MX's) wearing masks in LP? Anyone keeping distances at all? Crowds, cars, cafes?

Are people aware, on any level, that the virus is happening NOB?

I'm guessing no, no and no.

JZ - 7-27-2020 at 02:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  


Here are some fish reports on FB, there have been news stories about salmon being caught in the Sea of Cortez?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/278561439852318/



Looks like BoLA is open for business. Good for them.

Alm - 7-27-2020 at 04:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

You told us a month ago that 5% of Americans who get it, 8% of Canadians, and 11% of Mexicans will die. Don't try your new term of "case fatality rate" on us now.

Case fatality rate = deaths / confirmed cases. This is how it's officially defined.
If I "told" a month ago that it was 5%, then it was 5% due to the number of deaths and cases at the moment. Today it is what it is, check the statistics. If this is difficult to understand, I can't help you.

The point is that this virus is not making you healthier. If you don't die you may get sick for a long time. After the SARS epidemic they were seeing thyroid problems in lab tests of recovered patients a few years after the epidemic.

[Edited on 7-27-2020 by Alm]

Alm - 7-27-2020 at 04:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Dont you already know its a deadly disease and only fools dont take care?
If people are calling the disease a nothing burger, then flock them, cut them out of your life and dont shed s tear if they die

Fools dying out is not a problem.
The problem is that they will infect many other people before they either die or recover.

[Edited on 7-27-2020 by Alm]

BajaNomad - 7-27-2020 at 04:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
BTW, stories around here talk of unusual sightings of marine life not seen for many years. I wonder if there is a link?


There have been quite a few stories of atypical marine activity. Here's an example from a couple of months ago:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=94553

SFandH - 7-27-2020 at 04:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad  
Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
BTW, stories around here talk of unusual sightings of marine life not seen for many years. I wonder if there is a link?


There have been quite a few stories of atypical marine activity. Here's an example from a couple of months ago:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=94553


Deep sea oarfish this past week on La Paz beach.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/07/mysterious-deep-sea-oarfish...

Alm - 7-27-2020 at 04:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  


Deep sea oarfish this past week on La Paz beach.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/07/mysterious-deep-sea-oarfish...

They did this before, dead or ready to die. Probably not related to reduced boat traffic during the epidemic, unlike other sightings.

JZ - 7-27-2020 at 05:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  


Case fatality rate = deaths / confirmed cases. This is how it's officially defined.
If I "told" a month ago that it was 5%, then it was 5% due to the number of deaths and cases at the moment. Today it is what it is, check the statistics. If this is difficult to understand, I can't help you.

The point is that this virus is not making you healthier. If you don't die you may get sick for a long time. After the SARS epidemic they were seeing thyroid problems in lab tests of recovered patients a few years after the epidemic.

[Edited on 7-27-2020 by Alm]


You told us that 8% of Canadians who get it will die.

Here is exactly what you told us:

"Deaths show how deadly the virus is overall, regardless of the epidemic stage. Despite the increasing testing, deaths per infected have been higher than initially predicted 3-4%. Mexico: 12%, Canada: 8%, USA: 5.5%. A far cry from 0.5% deaths by seasonal flu."

I've never seen someone root so hard for the virus.


[Edited on 7-28-2020 by JZ]

JZ - 7-27-2020 at 05:37 PM

Wash your hands, wear a mask where required. Avoid large crowds. Stay in good physical shape.

And then get on with your got damn life.




Alm - 7-27-2020 at 06:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Wash your hands, wear a mask where required. Avoid large crowds.

Now we are getting somewhere. The only thing that remains is to try and understand what you are reading.

mtgoat666 - 7-27-2020 at 08:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Wash your hands, wear a mask where required. Avoid large crowds. Stay in good physical shape.

And then get on with your got damn life.






Be sure to say your good byes to your grandparents, you are now more likely to not see them again.
But be aware that After they hear your approach to Covid19, they may disown you...

JZ - 7-28-2020 at 12:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  


Be sure to say your good byes to your grandparents, you are now more likely to not see them again.
But be aware that After they hear your approach to Covid19, they may disown you...


Talked to my grannie about two weeks ago.

She said, "Its a really snotty, awful thing, especially for us older folks, but most importantly, I don't want it to impact your kids."

paranewbi - 7-28-2020 at 05:12 AM

https://flattenthefear.com/

gnukid - 7-28-2020 at 07:27 AM

https://www.elsudcaliforniano.com.mx/local/municipios/celebr...

Celebran vuelta al turismo naútico en Loreto

bajaric - 7-28-2020 at 09:25 AM

Regarding travel in Baja, someone posted a video on FB from last Sunday that showed a long, long line of vehicles at what appeared to be the El Chinero checkpoint, on Hwy 3 north of San Felipe. Appears they had set up a "filter". The line was at a standstill and people were out of their vehicles. So, things have not returned to normal, and may not for some time. The filters seem to be set up only on the week ends.

The guy with the RV towing a small vehicle might have had some explaining to do..

shari - 7-28-2020 at 09:34 AM

at the Baja Sur border at the entrance to Guerrero Negro, the health & informational checkpoint has been set up again where they inform travelers about protocol here in baja sur and what to do if you get symptoms. They take your temperature and give you a face mask if you dont have one.

David K - 7-28-2020 at 09:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
Regarding travel in Baja, someone posted a video on FB from last Sunday that showed a long, long line of vehicles at what appeared to be the El Chinero checkpoint, on Hwy 3 north of San Felipe. Appears they had set up a "filter". The line was at a standstill and people were out of their vehicles. So, things have not returned to normal, and may not for some time. The filters seem to be set up only on the week ends.

The guy with the RV towing a small vehicle might have had some explaining to do..


I saw that too. If I read it right, it was northbound to Mexicali from San Felipe that had over an hour wait, southbound to San Felipe had no restrictions?

RFClark - 7-28-2020 at 01:03 PM

“Be sure to say your good byes to your grandparents, you are now more likely to not see them again.
But be aware that After they hear your approach to Covid19, they may disown you... “

Goat,

As a grandparent I live everyday as fully as I can. You can be struck by a bus while protesting at any age! That said the CDC report of deaths from all causes have been well below the expected seasonally adjusted numbers ever since Cuomo and Murphy killed off all the old folks in NY and NJ a few months ago. The documented Virus admissions to California hospitals lags by 2 weeks, but the last week listed is half of what it was a few weeks prior! URLs upon request!

Everyone dies of something some day even if you hide under the bed! It’s what you do in the meantime that defines your life!

My 94 year old Irish Grandma had a dissecting aneurism while up on a ladder painting her ceiling! In my world she rocks! She came to NYC in the 1880s when they still had Typhoid Epidemics! She lived through the 1890s Russian Flu, the 1918 Spanish Flu and the 1957 Asian Flu along with a few wars, the Great Depression, earthquakes and the “Doom Clock” set at two minutes to midnight!

The Glass Half Emptiers” always said the end was near or would be soon!


David K - 7-28-2020 at 02:26 PM

RF... what great reply!:bounce::light::cool:

Lee - 7-28-2020 at 03:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi  
https://flattenthefear.com/


If you're not a right wing conservative nut job, skip this link. This group thinks reopening schools at all cost is the solution.

They also state that mainstream media (read liberals) has turned the covid virus into hysteria.

Bet these misguided losers are anti-maskers too. Just saw a video of a red-neck type screaming the virus is a scam and his constitutional rights meant he didn't have to wear a mask.

He had on a red maga cap. Figures.

Nice try.

John Harper - 7-28-2020 at 04:33 PM

One half of the MLB Florida Marlins tested positive for C-19. 30 man rosters (dropping to 26), 32 teams (isolated), 960 players (tested daily) 15 positive on one team, in one week.

Opening schools? Even 1000 on campus per day out of a 3000+ enrollment? Let's hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

VOTE!

John

John Harper - 7-28-2020 at 04:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Crap, I've heard of their detecting it in cats, but fish now? That's really going to impact the tourist industry. :no:


Maybe smoking it kills the virus? Oops, don't want to start any new conspiracy theories for our "foil hat" crowd.

John

Alm - 7-28-2020 at 04:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  

... the CDC report of deaths from all causes have been well below the expected seasonally adjusted numbers...

This only shows that people die less from other causes this summer. Deaths from Covid-19 are still there.



[Edited on 7-29-2020 by Alm]

SFandH - 7-28-2020 at 05:13 PM

Interesting new video from Wendover Productions, a quality Youtube channel, about the logistics of COVID testing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgiMqePRp0Y

RFClark - 7-29-2020 at 12:54 AM

“ This only shows that people die less from other causes this summer. Deaths from Covid-19 are still there.“

“All causes” Includes Virus deaths too! Consider that 50K to 60K Americans die every week. Many from chronic diseases. If something else like gross stupidity in NY and NJ kills 30K in nursing homes over a short period than they’re not available to die in subsequent weeks.

These accelerated virus deaths reduce the available pool of the chronically ill who can die of something else. The “all causes” death rate goes down. As far as deaths are concerned the Flu and the Virus compete with each other for Largely the same pool of victims. A lot of deaths from other known causes are being swept up by COVID or delayed because of people staying at home.

Alm - 7-29-2020 at 05:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  

These accelerated virus deaths reduce the available pool of the chronically ill who can die of something else. The “all causes” death rate goes down. As far as deaths are concerned the Flu and the Virus compete with each other for Largely the same pool of victims. A lot of deaths from other known causes are being swept up by COVID or delayed because of people staying at home.

This picture is too simplified to be correct.

All cases rate went down in part because people are staying home, less working, less driving. Those who chose to take this new threat seriously are less likely to contract some other diseases as well. Masks, distancing and washing hands works not just for coronavirus.

The fact that there are other diseases doesn't mean that Covid-19 should be ignored because those who die would "die of something else" anyway.

Chronically ill person contracting Covid-19 could've lived years or decades longer if it wasn't for Covid-19. Being healthy doesn't mean that you won't die after contracting Covid-19, the risk is ~10 times lower than if you were already ill but still real.

As to the competing with flu... There was an article in National Geographic where they compared so called infection fatality rate - based on total estimated infected cases of Covid-19 as opposed to confirmed cases, VS same estimates for seasonal flu. They concluded that Covid-19 is 50-100 times deadlier than the flu. Some "competition"... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/coronavir...

[Edited on 7-30-2020 by Alm]

RFClark - 7-31-2020 at 01:57 PM

“This picture is too simplified to be correct“

The “justification“ given for Stoping the economy and locking everyone up for months was to prevent the hospital system from being overwhelmed and to save lives!

How many people die now vs how many died last year at the same time is how you judge the effectiveness of the current effort. How many hospitalizations per 100K of population is the other way since most who die in the U.S. are first admitted to a hospital. This is also an indication of how many will die in coming weeks!

None of the above will satisfy you if your goal is political!

Everyone seems to have realized that the best way to become infected is to be inside a building with other people. That’s because few buildings have upgraded their HVAC systems to filter and disinfect the air correctly mostly because of the extra cost. (Think Legionaries Disease here! It also spreads through HVAC systems! The same is likely for other diseases like the Flu!) The “how” to disinfect air was recognized during the 1918 Flu epidemic and mostly ignored since. The Legionaries outbreaks should have been warnings!