BajaNomad - Nuclear energy plant being considered for BC

Nuclear energy plant being considered for BC

Maderita - 10-27-2020 at 01:24 PM

https://www.forbes.com.mx/negocios-cfe-planta-nuclear-baja-c...

A scary thought. It would have to be on the coast for seawater cooling. I wonder about the cost effectiveness when compared to wind, solar, and solar with pumped hydroelectric storage. BC has plenty of wind, sun, and geothermal power.

edited to add: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

[Edited on 10-27-2020 by Maderita]

sancho - 10-27-2020 at 04:35 PM

I worked at at the San Onofre Nuke plant. One doesn't have
to be on the coast for cooling water. There is a plant in AZ., Palo Verde, I believe uses a cooling pond for water. An engineer
at Sano once told me they can buy elect. from outside sources
cheaper than they can produce it at Sano. A boondoggle, if
ask me. There are/was a couple nukes in the Yucatan, don't
know if they are still operational

JZ - 10-27-2020 at 07:59 PM

If you haven't seen Dark on Netflix you really should give it a watch. A+.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/dark

mtgoat666 - 10-27-2020 at 10:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Maderita

https://www.forbes.com.mx/negocios-cfe-planta-nuclear-baja-c...

A scary thought. It would have to be on the coast for seawater cooling. I wonder about the cost effectiveness when compared to wind, solar, and solar with pumped hydroelectric storage. BC has plenty of wind, sun, and geothermal power.

edited to add: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

[Edited on 10-27-2020 by Maderita]

D’oh!

Don Pisto - 10-28-2020 at 08:07 AM

https://cobertura360.mx/2020/10/28/baja-california/no-he-vis...

ehall - 10-28-2020 at 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

I worked at at the San Onofre Nuke plant. One doesn't have
to be on the coast for cooling water. There is a plant in AZ., Palo Verde, I believe uses a cooling pond for water. An engineer
at Sano once told me they can buy elect. from outside sources
cheaper than they can produce it at Sano. A boondoggle, if
ask me. There are/was a couple nukes in the Yucatan, don't
know if they are still operational

Palo verde uses treated effluent from the city of phoenix for cooling. Huge pipe for about 30 miles.

laventana - 1-2-2021 at 08:28 PM

obviously google translate is not great, but appears they are talking about the small nuclear power plants "microreactors" that many if not most use a different cooling mechanism as most use a salt that is liquid at higher temperatures.

These are very small vs the old days ones and some are contemplated to be manufactured at a plant and shipped in to and removed at end of life. These use passive cooling such that even without power they naturally keep the core from overheating. Ya my father is a retired nuclear physicist who spent his career in reactor safety who still like to talk shop.

We need a few of these modular reactors for baja sur because they use one of the worst air pollutants there are for baja sur, heavy oil for our electric.

here is a short write up on some of the newer concepts being tested in microreactors. https://newatlas.com/energy/us-doe-advanced-nuclear-reactor-...

Bajabus - 1-3-2021 at 08:44 AM

The local utility grid is finally allowing interconnection permits for some large scale Utility Solar fields. Two small but better than nothing ones are going up in Insurgents'. This two sites will incorportate Lithium battery storage.

I will be doing final commissioning on them and flipping the switch sometime in March or April. We delivered 12 4.2 MW inverters to the sites in September. Batteries got there a little later.

It took a lot of work and regulatory hurdles for these 1st ones but future ones should go much smoother. Entire fields are now coming in at under $1 per KW installed ( without storage ). There is not much out there less cheaper than that.

I still see a limited place for fossil and nuclear in the mix but at this point they are cost prohibitive technologies for base load generation.

PaulW - 1-3-2021 at 09:10 AM

Bajabus, Can you give us a location for your reported solar array? Near a city?

mtgoat666 - 1-3-2021 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by Bajabus

I will be doing final commissioning on them and flipping the switch sometime in March

Sounds like you're in the mix of things, you know anything about the Aura Solar installation outside of La Paz? This article says it "...produces enough to satisfy the needs of approximately half the La Paz population."

That is noteworthy. :wow:

Yes, but which half?

Barry A. - 1-3-2021 at 09:27 AM

Nuclear is not dead yet.

See: https://link.popularmechanics.com/view/5f4633a1ff677b6a4e5b3...

Bajabus - 1-3-2021 at 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Bajabus, Can you give us a location for your reported solar array? Near a city?

Both are across the street from each and near the big substation as you head south out of town.

https://goo.gl/maps/gsuEFeLU5G7Jy1oVA

Bajabus - 1-3-2021 at 10:20 AM

Nuclear and fossil fuel will always have a place in the mix. A diminishing and increasingly expensive one for sure. For the next 5 to 10 years as the storage sector improves energy density and costs come down, battery storage coupled with PV and wind will become the dominant energy source for the planet.

It is my firm belief that Flow batteries will come to dominate fixed storage and lithium/chemical batteries and Hydrogen will dominate transportation.

Here is a picture of the first skid being delivered to site.

[Edited on 3-1-2021 by Bajabus]

[Edited on 3-1-2021 by Bajabus]

laventana - 1-3-2021 at 09:03 PM

Not sure of the wind ratings of solar farms. So one issue for solar from baja sur perspective, from the history of hurricanes here in LaPaz, didn't hurricane Odile destroy or severely damage one of the solar farms? I was here for it, but obviously did not go look at the solar farm. I would hope newer solar farms are in more protected valleys if there is such a thing in baja sur.

To me I really like the solar concentrating plants vs photovoltaic. Several in operation in the USA now with capital costs that are low vs many other forms of sun power. I think these are made by a Spanish company. they had a rough start but have massaged their initial problems. In concept these are good for 100s of years vs the in comparison to a photovoltaic system of ?? is it 30 years? Plus solar concentrating if I remember can produce electricity for another 6 hours or so after the sun goes down.

In the larger picture I would not be surprised if the chemical mining and waste from manufacturing photovoltaic is not a larger environmental issues than the new style mini or micro reactors that are being proposed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_solar_power

Quote:

The DEWA project in Dubai, under construction in 2019, held the world record for lowest CSP price in 2017 at $73 per MWh[20] for its 700 MW combined trough and tower project: 600 MW of trough, 100 MW of tower with 15 hours of thermal energy storage daily. Base-load CSP tariff in the extremely dry Atacama region of Chile reached below ¢5.0/kWh in 2017 auctions.[21][22]

medium Cool - 1-3-2021 at 09:38 PM

Lencho most definatly has major considerstions regarding nuclear reacters ( waste ) that said, as we progress in the nuclear sector, we will master "Fission". To discount nuclear and its family of energy could indeed be the dumbest thing human kind reflects upon, from a historical perspective

mtgoat666 - 1-3-2021 at 09:47 PM

Remember:
Three mile island melt down
Chernobyl melt down
San onofre steam tube fiasco
***ushima melt down

You want to live next to any of these?

PaulW - 1-3-2021 at 09:53 PM

Comparing Russian nuke tech to the rest of the world is a joke.
Just fear mongering and wild speculation with no foundation.

LancairDriver - 1-4-2021 at 09:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Comparing Russian nuke tech to the rest of the world is a joke.
Just fear mongering and wild speculation with no foundation.

Do you find it a little odd only one of the four examples goat listed is “Russian nuke tech” ? On the military nuclear front Russia has negated any leading edge advantage the US may have had.

Don Pisto - 1-4-2021 at 10:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Remember:
Three mile island melt down
Chernobyl melt down
San onofre steam tube fiasco
***ushima melt down

You want to live next to any of these?

I'll take San-O thank you.....I could fit in under the Dogpatch Shack :coolup:

Bajabus - 1-4-2021 at 01:32 PM

As stated above, For the forseeable future there will always be a diminishing but constant need for nuke and fossil fuel power generation.

I like a simple approach. PV aside from a simple, very mature and developed tracking system has no moving parts. I like simple. Pumps, valves and complex sensor feedback systems are difficult to maintain and requires specialized labor.

Yes extreme weather will affect a solar field. They are designed to withstand 125 MPH and small to medium sized hail. We have had some significant damage to to solar fields from catastophic storm events but it was easily repairable. Plus investors in these projects require hail, wind and flooding insurance.

I would like to see R&

on all forms of power generation and energy storage. Right now PV and wind seem the best bet.

A 600 MW gas turbine peaker plant takes 4-5 years at best to design, clear regulatory hurdles, commission and bring online. A 600 MW solar farm is about 2 years or less for the same and easier to maintain. Major utilities look at the bottom line. Right now they can do PV or wind with storage for a lot less than building a nuke or fossil fuel plant. There is a reason no one is building the latter.

Forget all the tree hugging hippy stuff. Money talks.

TMW - 1-4-2021 at 02:45 PM

I believe France has a large number of nuclear power plants and it's my understanding unlike the US they are for the most part built the same. As far as living near a nuclear power plant American sailors do it every day.