BajaNomad

fideicomiso payment

bajafreaks - 2-20-2021 at 01:37 PM

I sold a property in Oct.2020 that we had a fideicomiso on with payments due every October. The property closed the second week of Oct. but the bank via our realtor is saying they want the fee for the upcoming year (2021) even though its now not our property. The fees are "paid ahead." Since the deal is done and closed is there really anything the bank can do ?

boe4fun - 2-21-2021 at 10:47 AM

Are the new owners Mexican citizens! If not, was the fideicomiso transferred during the sale. Since the fide is prepaid each year(at least ours is through Banorte) and if the sale was made before the due date, I’d say don’t worry about payment, if you closed the sale after the actual due date, i would think that you’re legally on the hook for payment.

[Edited on 2-21-2021 by boe4fun]

JZ - 2-21-2021 at 02:16 PM

Sounds like the bank is being chitty to its customer. Not a good way to do business. I'd never do that to a customer and lose the good will. Tell the realtor to escalate it to the bank execs. Maybe it's just some weenie middle mgr stepping out of place and not thinking about the bigger picture of the bank's brand.





[Edited on 2-21-2021 by JZ]

bajafreaks - 2-22-2021 at 03:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by boe4fun  
Are the new owners Mexican citizens! If not, was the fideicomiso transferred during the sale. Since the fide is prepaid each year(at least ours is through Banorte) and if the sale was made before the due date, I’d say don’t worry about payment, if you closed the sale after the actual due date, i would think that you’re legally on the hook for payment.

[Edited on 2-21-2021 by boe4fun]


They are Americans. The fiedo was to be transferred during the sale i believe but who really knows. We've never had an actual due date for payment its always been simply October. The kicker is the realtor told me the bank required the buyer to also pay for the upcoming years fees 2020/2021 so they are double dipping which apparently is common practice ???

bajafreaks - 2-22-2021 at 05:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by bajafreaks  
The fiedo was to be transferred during the sale i believe but who really knows.
If you had a professional realtor handling this transaction, why is there even any question about such details?
:?:

Is there such a thing as a professional realtor in Mexico ? I cant answer that question, but apparently the one i used wasn't or i wouldn't be asking the question...

Russ - 2-22-2021 at 05:57 PM

Have the new owner pay the fideo and ask to have a copy sent to you. That should cover you if any future action comes your way.

Santiago - 2-23-2021 at 06:22 AM

OK, please don't yell at me for my ignorance but isn't there something akin to a 'buy-sell' agreement that lays out who does what? And if so, wouldn't this be addressed? And doesn't the bank need to be involved to agree to the new fide or the assumption of the existing one? And wouldn't they make sure they get paid before allowing the new guy in?And isn't there a 'closing statement' that some 3rd party issues that details the entire transaction?

ch47pilot - 2-23-2021 at 10:21 AM

As an aside, I have my fideicomiso with Banorte with payment due in March. I paid early in December just to get it out of the way, (mistake). Banorte now is sending me reminders that my Fidei is due to be paid next week. I guess that I have to return to San Jose and do battle.

RFClark - 2-23-2021 at 11:34 AM

My understanding of the process is your Fideiocomiso was extinguished when you sold your property, assuming that a Realitor and Mexican title company did the transaction all monies due were paid. Taxes, fees, commissions, etc.

John Harper - 2-23-2021 at 12:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajafreaks  
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by bajafreaks  
The fiedo was to be transferred during the sale i believe but who really knows.
If you had a professional realtor handling this transaction, why is there even any question about such details?
:?:

Is there such a thing as a professional realtor in Mexico ? I cant answer that question, but apparently the one i used wasn't or i wouldn't be asking the question...


"We've never had an actual due date for payment its always been simply October."

How many years did you pay this without inquiring about an exact due date? Seems you could have done better "due diligence" to find out some of this information. Doesn't your realtor do this work?

John

surabi - 2-23-2021 at 12:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajafreaks  


The fiedo was to be transferred during the sale i believe but who really knows.


In other words, you just left everything in the hands of the realtor, didn't meet with the notary at all, and didn't pay any attention to the details of the sale.

You just sold a house and presumably have plenty of liquid assets at the moment. Why not just pay the $500 fideo payment instead of spending so much time on this? And you're going to spend how much money and time to go back to San Jose to try to fight it?

submarine_dbk - 2-23-2021 at 03:13 PM

Out of curiosity, when a fido-held property changes hands between Americans, how does payment to the seller actually take place? Does it have to occur in Mexico via Mexican bank/insitution? Through the Notario? Can it be done via American Banks stateside? Cashiers check?

I have no idea how that works.

[Edited on 2-23-2021 by submarine_dbk]

RFClark - 2-23-2021 at 03:33 PM

Our Realitor who is real and uses a real Mexican Notary in La Paz explained it this way. The old Fido is extinguished and any monies owed are paid. The new foreign national gets a new Fido. Any taxes and fees owed to La Paz are paid. The Notary calculates your capital gain or loss in Mexico (complicated) and pays it. The broker fees are paid and the transaction is recorded in La Paz. You receive copies of various documents in person from the Notary which after showing your visa and passport, you sign. The proceeds minus all of this are available as a wire transfer in dollars. Our Realitor has a corespondent bank in the US. If it’s in excess is $10K or a series of transfers in excess of $10K total, Uncle San knows about it!

It sounds like this guy did it the other way, (El Chopo’s way!) the money in a briefcase and no paperwork! One of our neighbors sold his place on a rented lot for a bunch of small checks! Imagine that!

submarine_dbk - 2-23-2021 at 03:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Our Realitor who is real and uses a real Mexican Notary in La Paz explained it this way. The old Fido is extinguished and any monies owed are paid. The new foreign national gets a new Fido. Any taxes and fees owed to La Paz are paid. The Notary calculates your capital gain or loss in Mexico (complicated) and pays it. The broker fees are paid and the transaction is recorded in La Paz. You receive copies of various documents in person from the Notary which after showing your visa and passport, you sign. The proceeds minus all of this are available as a wire transfer in dollars. Our Realitor has a corespondent bank in the US. If it’s in excess is $10K or a series of transfers in excess of $10K total, Uncle San knows about it!

It sounds like this guy did it the other way, (El Chopo’s way!) the money in a briefcase and no paperwork! One of our neighbors sold his place on a rented lot for a bunch of small checks! Imagine that!


Interesting - thanks for the feedback. So capital gains on the sale occur in Mexico, but what about the US? Are sales of property held in foreign trust also subject to capital gains in the US or is there some form of reciprocity that avoids a double hit?

RFClark - 2-23-2021 at 03:46 PM

One of the problems with buying land in Mexico is it’s complicated! A Mexican National can buy a lot or house with the least paperwork (still a lot!) title searches and researching environmental approvals before paying anything are strongly advised! There are crooks there just like there crooks here!

The problem arises when the property has a Fido on it and the Mexican entity responsible for the Fido has stopped doing them! The lot next door to us was like that! The buyer bought the lot without getting a new Fido. I understand that the buyer has a business in Los Cabos so he should have known better! He thought he owned the lot and started building! The Realitor disappeared with all the money! The man owned nothing and had no recourse!

RFClark - 2-23-2021 at 03:49 PM

People who can deal with that get $$$$! That’s why the “El Chopo” gambit is so popular! The answer is light years above my pay grade!

bajafreaks - 2-23-2021 at 06:22 PM

Well to make a long story short...the issue has been resolved.
Thanks for "most" everyone's input, RF Clark especially, good info, as for Harper and surabi...have a nice day.