BajaNomad

THE LEGAL PROCESS OF A FIDEICOMISO FOR MY HOUSE IN BAHIA ASUNCIÓN It is a long thread but worth your reading.

Udo - 6-18-2021 at 04:13 PM

This is a very lengthy post, so, please bear with me.

Many of you know that my beachfront house in Bahia Asunción has been for sale for quite a while. Several BAJANOMADS responded with inquiries regarding the price and Fideicomiso standing. No one provided me with a deposit for a down payment for holding the house for them, except for one couple.

The sale started in early November 2020 and finally concluded on May 14, 2021…8 months of legal wrangling.

If this would have been me at the buying end, I would have said to the owner…keep the deposit. I am not going through any more work through the Mexican legal process.

May I go on record…I will never, ever, buy another house that has a fideicomiso for a title. Many of you do not know, but the fideicomiso trust (it is not a title), is only for the period of 50 years. After that it must be renewed by your heirs or whomever you, the owner, designate. Who knows what the fees will be at that time and which bank will hold the fideicomiso. You have to pay a fideicomiso annual fee to the bank holding it. A clear title can only be held by a Mexican citizen. That is an indisputable fact found out during the process of ownership transfer.

The couple that offered to purchase the house has dual citizenship with the USA and Mexico. They were fully aware of the paperwork circumstances and were willing to go through the entire process. They had the major help from Karla Estrella Espinoza Barraza. She works out of Vizcaino. Her phone numbers are 615-155-9929 and 615-156-4753. She did all the legwork, car travel and plane travel required. She used to work with a previous President, the governor of Baja Sur, and has personal connections both legal as well as political. She is an extremely patient person. She is currently working with Notario #20 in Santa Rosalia, and is on track to become a Notaria herself.

My original attorney that handled the sales transaction from the Farley’s was Alonzo Lopez. A well-recommended attorney. He managed to get me to fly to his office in La Paz twice where I signed some paperwork and went to see a Notario near his office, where I also signed some paperwork and made copies of my personal ID’s. I paid him about $15,000 USD to handle the transaction transfer. I also paid him an additional $5,000 USD to handle the paperwork for my wife and I to form A Mexican corporation.

We were a happy camper for a while.

It wasn’t until five years later that I found out that Alonzo Lopez had been involved in some shady dealings, and I was hoping that one of those dealings was not my house in BA.

In the meantime, I had gone to the Hacienda office, both in TJ and Ensenada, to pay for my corporate taxes, but on three separate occasions they could not find my paperwork. I hoped they would get things straightened out in the future. They knew my residence.

Now to the major complications:

Carlos and Linda (the new owners to be) had been very diligent in keeping me apprised of the legal wrangling going on. Again, they were very aware of possible problems and were confident that Karla could handle all the legal wrangling.

To start with, in December of 2020 it was found out that the fideicomiso was not in my name at all! After 45 days of searching by BA property records, they found out that the house was never listed as a sale to me and it was still in the Farley’s name. Additionally, the house and one lot was the only property that was under the fideicomiso, the second lot was never taken out of the Farley’s Mexican corporation’s name. It was still under the corporation. Carlos and Linda had to buy the corporation from the Farley’s just to have ownership of both lots. Early in my buying process from the Farley’s, I had instructed Alonzo Lopez to combine (he called it “fusing”) the two lots into one. I paid him another $1,500 USD to handle that transaction. That was never recorded as well. As a matter of fact, the yearly taxes that I paid to the Catastro office in BA were never recorded with the Central Catastro office in Santa Rosalia, I was told that the property was not under our name (even though the Catastro office in BA knew of the sale transaction). and, as far as they (Santa Rosalia) were concerned taxes were never paid and the house had a lien on it for unpaid taxes. I had kept all my receipts from the payments, and weeks later it was confirmed that the taxes had been paid. There was an additional lien for water service that was not paid. Again. I kept the record of those. CFE also had a small lien on the house because of unpaid electric bills from renters. Those were also paid.

Months into the sale process, it was found out that the lots’ dimensions were also incorrect (per the Santa Rosalia Catastro office). So, the dimensions had to be corrected and verified by a Municipio engineer.

THE LEGAL PROCESS WITH THE BANKS:

Originally, the property was held under one bank’s fideicomiso. That bank sold it to a different bank, and in turn, Banorte (who now is the major holder of most fideicomisos) bought the last fideicomiso. But within the transfer processes, some of the legal paperwork did not transfer from one bank to the other. That needed to be straightened out.

Since my name was never recorded as proper owner of the properties, the house essentially had to be sold from the Farley’s to the new buyers. The bank had no record of my name on anything.
The new owners lived in Los Angeles. The Farley are in Tucson, AZ.
The Farley’s needed to sign a Power Of Attorney designating the Farley’s as the seller of the house, not Udo Winkler. So, onto Tucson Carlos and Linda drove. Once there they signed the paperwork and everything was Notarized.
Now Carlos and Linda needed to drive to Sacrament to the State department to have the paperwork apostilled!

They now head to Santa Rosalia in March to meet at the Notario’s office and the Banorte office. It turns out the Farley’s did not sign the paperwork the same as it was in their passports. Their passports mis-spelled their names. The signature was correct, but the name on the passports did not match. This ensued another trip to Tucson to correct the signature spelling error so at least the names and signatures matched. And all this had to be done before the 18th of May (which was the Farley’s passport expiration date). The passport had to be valid for the paperwork to be processed by the bank.

Additionally, Banorte required copies of my passport, my US driver’s license, my social security card, a copy of a CFE bill as offer of proof or residence, PLUS a copy of my Residente Permanente card. Mind you, my name was nowhere in the house legal work.

Now it is the first part of April 2021, and Karla is still collecting paperwork. The paperwork had been submitted in person to the Bank (several times to a branch in Tecate) and twice to the large office in La Paz. DHL was not a reliable delivery source because they lost or mishandled the deliveries). But it was rejected because of spelling errors, as well as papers submitted in incorrect order. Each time some paperwork was submitted, a fee had to be paid.

Now the day finally arrives that I, and the new owners, were to meet at the Santa Rosalia Notario office (I needed to bring a current CFE bill to prove that I was still a current resident of Mexico). The Notario handed me a 27-page legal document created by Banorte Legal Department. All in Spanish. I had to read the whole thing and found several errors (including an incorrect date of birth), misspellings, incorrect sequences, etc. The Notario made note of those errors and approved the documents including the errors by the bank (it is OK for the bank to make errors, I guess).

Three days later, the La Paz branch finally approved all the paperwork and all was accepted on May 14, 2021.

The sale finally went through!


[Edited on 6-18-2021 by Udo]

[Edited on 6-19-2021 by BajaNomad]

SFandH - 6-18-2021 at 04:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Udo  


To start with, in December of 2020 it was found out that the fideicomiso was not in my name at all! After 45 days of searching by BA property records, they found out that the house was never listed as a sale to me and it was still in the Farley’s name. Additionally, the house and one lot was the only property that was under the fideicomiso, the second lot was never taken out of the Farley’s Mexican corporation’s name. It was still under the corporation.

[Edited on 6-18-2021 by Udo]


Yikes! I have a question for you. Does the above describe the incompetence of the Notario in Santa Rosalia? Isn't it the Notario's job to make sure all the paperwork is in order?

[Edited on 6-19-2021 by SFandH]

AKgringo - 6-18-2021 at 06:33 PM

Udo, I am glad for you that the process is completed, and it actually makes me feel a little better. I was there in November, and could have cashed you out for the property, but was warned by others that it was not a safe thing to do.

With none of the talent and connections that your buyers had, it doesn't sound like I could have pulled it off. Sounds like having the wrong lawyer can be worse than having none.

I still have whined frequently to my family and friends (as recently as this week) that I passed up a once in a lifetime deal!

Howard - 6-18-2021 at 07:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Udo  
May I go on record…I will never, ever, buy another house that has a fideicomiso for a title.

How would you do it? Corporation? You haven't naturalized, correct?


You do not have to be naturalized to form a corporation.

When we 2 Americans formed a Mexican corporation approximately 10 years ago all we had were our FM3s or FM2s, I don't remember which.

surabi - 6-18-2021 at 07:20 PM

As far as I can tell, none of this has anything to do with having a fideicomiso, but that the paperwork wasn't done correctly in the first place.

Udo - 6-19-2021 at 07:07 AM

Yes, it is the Notario's responsibility. But in my particular case, the bank was calling all the shots. It appeared that the bank did not want to relinquish the fideicomiso and was throwing roadblocks along the way.
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by Udo  


To start with, in December of 2020 it was found out that the fideicomiso was not in my name at all! After 45 days of searching by BA property records, they found out that the house was never listed as a sale to me and it was still in the Farley’s name. Additionally, the house and one lot was the only property that was under the fideicomiso, the second lot was never taken out of the Farley’s Mexican corporation’s name. It was still under the corporation.

[Edited on 6-18-2021 by Udo]


Yikes! I have a question for you. Does the above describe the incompetence of the Notario in Santa Rosalia? Isn't it the Notario's job to make sure all the paperwork is in order?

[Edited on 6-19-2021 by SFandH]

Udo - 6-19-2021 at 07:13 AM

This fideicomiso transfer was such a huge PITB! I don't think that fideicomisos will get any easier.
I am much happier buying a completed house on leased land. The only caution on the leased land buying process is to make sure, by speaking with members of the community and other renters about their knowledge of the lease owner. With diligent caution, one can have a safe investment that can easily be transferred to your heirs.
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Udo  
May I go on record…I will never, ever, buy another house that has a fideicomiso for a title.

How would you do it? Corporation? You haven't naturalized, correct?

boe4fun - 6-19-2021 at 09:12 AM

Wow Udo, just wow. Glad you two finally got through all of this BS. I’m going to U2U you as I also used Alonzo for establishing our fideicomiso.

JZ - 6-19-2021 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Udo  
This fideicomiso transfer was such a huge PITB! I don't think that fideicomisos will get any easier.
I am much happier buying a completed house on leased land. The only caution on the leased land buying process is to make sure, by speaking with members of the community and other renters about their knowledge of the lease owner. With diligent caution, one can have a safe investment that can easily be transferred to your heirs.




Don't buy anything on leased land. That is a recipe for disaster. Fideicomiso is the way to go. Just need more trust worthy/competent ppl working for you.




[Edited on 6-19-2021 by JZ]

AKgringo - 6-19-2021 at 09:28 AM

Udo, do you think that Banorte was the source of the problem, or it was one of the previous holders of the fidelcomiso, and Banorte was hoping to exploit the mistake?

Also, who selects the bank, the buyer, seller, or notario?

boe4fun - 6-19-2021 at 10:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Udo, do you think that Banorte was the source of the problem, or it was one of the previous holders of the fidelcomiso, and Banorte was hoping to exploit the mistake?

Also, who selects the bank, the buyer, seller, or notario?


My fideicomiso was set up probably exactly as was Udo’s through Alonzo and the Notario in La Paz. It was paid yearly to Banco Interacciones, which was purchased and incorporated into Banorte.

Udo - 6-19-2021 at 11:55 AM

To answer your question Gringo. The initial paperwork transfer from one bank to the other was worth about 6 weeks of work. It wasn't that big of a deal because they were bank errors.
The biggest PITA was Banorte who had put up so many roadblocks! It was as though they did not want to give up the fideicomiso to the new owners. Their legal department kept asking for some corrections, then when they were corrected, other items showed up. It was so nitpicky as well as petty!

I really don't know which other bank is available to process fideicomisos. All I know is that I would never-ever use Banorte again for anything.

As far as who selects the bank is concerned, the Notario does that. But there are really no choices available anymore. Everyone has gotten out the that game.
Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Udo, do you think that Banorte was the source of the problem, or it was one of the previous holders of the fidelcomiso, and Banorte was hoping to exploit the mistake?

Also, who selects the bank, the buyer, seller, or notario?

Udo - 6-19-2021 at 12:20 PM

Currently, naturalization (becoming a Mexican citizen) is a much easier process than the fideicomiso process. Once you have been here a couple of years it is a matter of filling out the paperwork, and answering a few questions. I would be doing it right now, but I am at the upper end of my formidable years, and I don't see it as a necessity.
I simply tell the guards at the military checkpoints that I am a "National", they just wave me through.
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Udo  
May I go on record…I will never, ever, buy another house that has a fideicomiso for a title.

How would you do it? Corporation? You haven't naturalized, correct?

Udo - 6-21-2021 at 06:23 AM

To your knowledge, Diana, the lot properly transferred. Therefore it is the new owner's problem. But based on the part where you are still getting a fideicomiso bill from the bank, it appears the new owners may not, in fact, own the property. As was the case in ours where the previous owners still received the fideicomiso invoices.
Quote: Originally posted by DianaT  
Wow --- what a story. As you know, we sold our home next to your home about 8 years ago. Our Fideicomiso was with a bank in La Paz and set up by Alonso. But I think that bank was bought out. We totally trusted Alonso then and for a long time. Our front lot was never included and we owned it in the name of a local, but it was put in a new Fideicomiso when we sold. But I know there were problems with the legal description, but it seems it was worked out.

Then again, we trusted Alonso to pay off our Fideicomiso and all our other costs. But now we wonder as we have heard from others that Alonso had some real problems. We hope that is not the case

We recently received a bill from Banorte who we think bought out the other bank. They wanted us to pay the annual fee for the last few years. They threatened to hurt our credit in the US if we don't pay by November. We wrote back that we sold the property several years ago. We have heard nothing more so far. But there is no way we will pay anything.

We are glad your nightmare finally was settled.



Terry28 - 6-21-2021 at 09:54 AM

Udo,
How did you not know the fido was not in your name?? Did you not get a copy? I have 2 and my name is on each one....just seems strange that you did not review/get a copy and notice before....

BajaTed - 6-21-2021 at 12:39 PM

This story is why you go in person to the publico notario to see your recorded fidecomiso. You then take a picture of the book cover and all the pages. Our 1987 family photos of the "book" in the Ensenada office led to it being shown again to us in 2018.
First thing shown to a realtor or Abagado is the business card of the Notario officer. If you don't meet this person on a F2F basis, your in over your head.
A good notario is better than any Abagado; rule #2 of Baja realty

Udo - 6-21-2021 at 01:16 PM

I found out that the fido was not in my name and the new buyer (though the help of Karla) found out that the fido was still in the previous owner's names. I had in my possession three very thick (about 40 legal-sized pages long) in a Notario binder that I thought were my fido documents. At the time I trusted Alonzo Lopez because of the recommendations I received from others. Therefore I thought all my papers were in order.


Quote: Originally posted by Terry28  
Udo,
How did you not know the fido was not in your name?? Did you not get a copy? I have 2 and my name is on each one....just seems strange that you did not review/get a copy and notice before....

JC43 - 6-21-2021 at 01:36 PM

Look into the other Fido thread and what I pointed out. Maybe you might find out what a Fido is good for.

Timinator - 6-21-2021 at 02:12 PM

Bad Notaria to begin with it your name wasn't properly recorded and you given legal paperwork.

Terry28 - 6-21-2021 at 09:13 PM

I know a lot of people, there are 290 homes in Las Gavitos, all with fidos, and we didn't get screwed like you did...You had bad legal representation all the way...that doesn't make fidos bad, just the people who failed to do their job..... I have also had property on leased land....and got screwed. I walked away from a house I paid cash for.....

mtgoat666 - 6-21-2021 at 10:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  
This story is why you go in person to the publico notario to see your recorded fidecomiso. You then take a picture of the book cover and all the pages. Our 1987 family photos of the "book" in the Ensenada office led to it being shown again to us in 2018.
First thing shown to a realtor or Abagado is the business card of the Notario officer. If you don't meet this person on a F2F basis, your in over your head.
A good notario is better than any Abagado; rule #2 of Baja realty


Last week there was a thread here where a Mulegé “realtor” said you could buy houses from him with just a virtual inspection, and he would make all the paperwork happen w/o even needing to be in Mexico. A bunch of mulege nomads chimed in to say this “realtor” is More honest than Jesus, walks on water, turns water into wine, etc.

Sounds like Udo should have hired mulege Jesus as his agent.

The Mexican system of real estate transfer/title is a mess.

Maderita - 6-21-2021 at 10:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Terry28  
I know a lot of people, there are 290 homes in Las Gavitos, all with fidos,


Where/what is "Las Gavitos"?


Perhaps the reference is to "Las Gaviotas" a few miles south of Rosarito?

SFandH - 6-21-2021 at 11:22 PM

Las Gaviotas

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Las+Gaviotas,+Baja+Califor...

JZ - 6-21-2021 at 11:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry28  
I know a lot of people, there are 290 homes in Las Gavitos, all with fidos, and we didn't get screwed like you did...You had bad legal representation all the way...that doesn't make fidos bad, just the people who failed to do their job..... I have also had property on leased land....and got screwed. I walked away from a house I paid cash for.....


A lot of truth in this post.

DouglasP - 6-22-2021 at 05:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  
This story is why you go in person to the publico notario to see your recorded fidecomiso. You then take a picture of the book cover and all the pages. Our 1987 family photos of the "book" in the Ensenada office led to it being shown again to us in 2018.
First thing shown to a realtor or Abagado is the business card of the Notario officer. If you don't meet this person on a F2F basis, your in over your head.
A good notario is better than any Abagado; rule #2 of Baja realty


Last week there was a thread here where a Mulegé “realtor” said you could buy houses from him with just a virtual inspection, and he would make all the paperwork happen w/o even needing to be in Mexico. A bunch of mulege nomads chimed in to say this “realtor” is More honest than Jesus, walks on water, turns water into wine, etc.

Sounds like Udo should have hired mulege Jesus as his agent.

The Mexican system of real estate transfer/title is a mess.


Good lord goat.....you are such a piece of..........work. SMFH.

BajaTed - 6-22-2021 at 07:00 AM

From 10,000 ft.
Another reason for the photos of your recorded fidieocomiso is that Notario offices can catch fire and all record books are destroyed. :o:o:o

This was the story told to us back in 87 by an old timer in the office. The Ensenada office burned down in 1922

The very first land deed in Orange County CA. was by the San Juan Mission 17xx, that document is smoke damaged too BTW

advrider - 6-22-2021 at 03:17 PM

Glad it worked out for everyone. I was so close to buying your place, it was an amazing deal, location and size. Someone made out well even with all of the headache...

Udo - 6-23-2021 at 12:18 PM

Yes, they did, adv! It took 8 months and a lot of patience, plus put up with a lot of BS and nitpicking by Banorte.

It is an incredible location!

Udo
Quote: Originally posted by advrider  
Glad it worked out for everyone. I was so close to buying your place, it was an amazing deal, location and size. Someone made out well even with all of the headache...

HeyMulegeScott - 6-23-2021 at 08:41 PM

Our Fidecomiso is a 46 page document but we got a pdf copy before we signed and were able to scan through and make sure our names were right and the info seemed correct. Our attorney acted as our translator at the notary and took the time to review the sections and explain the general meaning. https://www.gaytanlegalservices.com/ -

mtgoat666 - You can buy property without going there, Jose is a legit agent in Mulege, and people are doing it but it seems a little crazy.


Udo - 6-24-2021 at 08:57 AM

I was not the one who found the help needed to get the work done.
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by Udo  
Yes, they did, adv! It took 8 months and a lot of patience, plus put up with a lot of BS and nitpicking by Banorte.

Ah, Mexican burrocracy. Were you doing all the legwork yourself, or get the help of a gestor or equivalent?

Getting competent specialists involved in processes like that can save so much hassle. Of course you thought that lawyer was playing that role, and look how that turned out. :rolleyes:

RFClark - 6-24-2021 at 10:22 AM

Our experience with our with a fido was different. First, the process of buying land and/or a house in Mexico is different. The Notary is the single most important link in the chain here. You can't be cheated without the notary being in on it. In the end the notary records your purchase in the record book in LaPaz for BCS. The notary sends you a recorded copy at which point the money is paid the seller from a trust account.

Having your property surveyed is also a good idea even if it’s a well established area.

Our Fido is with Banco Bajo who’s Real estate trust office is right next to hotel circle in Cabo San Jose. We visit them to pay our annual feel

Beware of Realtors or Sellers who offer to save you time or money on the Fido process! That is a scam alert! Know who is holding your money and that it is in a trust fund that won’t pay the seller anything until your paperwork is recorded!

That said people are cheated on real estate in the US all the time too!

BajaTed - 6-24-2021 at 11:06 AM

The Notario records your Fideocomiso number in their log books.

You don't get sent a formal land deed with a record number because the Fideocomiso document is only a lease. The Notario book only references your Fideo #and its made of paper, (wood buildings filled with paper burns BTW) NO digital record, this is why you take a picture of the record book page & cover

UH, I've seen Whiteout too in the record books:o, take a picture or accept the risk of ambiguity in the future

You have a lease only, No deed, the bank or the Ejido acts as a pseudo land owner cuz your a foreigner.

Trust , but verify and photocopy as needed

SFandH - 6-24-2021 at 11:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  
The Notario records your Fideocomiso number in their log books.

You don't get sent a formal land deed with a record number because the Fideocomiso document is only a lease.



A fideicomiso is not a lease. The following explains the difference:

Is a Fideicomiso like a lease agreement?

No. A Fideicomiso grants the beneficiary (buyer) all the rights of ownership: the rights to buy, sell, lease, use, bequeath, improve, transfer, and encumber. A lease grants only the right to use. If a lessee makes improvements (such as building a house) on the property, that house belongs to the landlord. Nor can the lessee sell the property or borrow money on it. Before 1971, the bank trust was not available, and leasing was the only option for Americans and other foreign Buyers.

https://www.buyplaya.com/What_is_a_Fideicomiso/page_2491617....

BajaTed - 6-24-2021 at 12:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  
The Notario records your Fideocomiso number in their log books.

You don't get sent a formal land deed with a record number because the Fideocomiso document is only a lease.



A fideicomiso is not a lease. The following explains the difference:

Is a Fideicomiso like a lease agreement?

No. A Fideicomiso grants the beneficiary (buyer) all the rights of ownership: the rights to buy, sell, lease, use, bequeath, improve, transfer, and encumber. A lease grants only the right to use. If a lessee makes improvements (such as building a house) on the property, that house belongs to the landlord. Nor can the lessee sell the property or borrow money on it. Before 1971, the bank trust was not available, and leasing was the only option for Americans and other foreign Buyers.

https://www.buyplaya.com/What_is_a_Fideicomiso/page_2491617....


What Is a Grant Deed?
A grant deed is a legal document used to transfer ownership of real property. The grantor is the person transferring the property, and each grantor must sign the deed. The grant deed is an official record that indicates a title has not already been granted to another person.


A grant deed contains the name of the person or entity transferring the property (the grantor); the legal description of the property being transferred (i.e., lot number, tract number, city, county, and state); and the name of the person or entity that the property is being transferred to (the grantee).


KEY TAKEAWAYS
A grant deed is used to legally transfer ownership of real property and is an official record that a title is clear.

SFandH - 6-25-2021 at 06:42 AM

My point is simply that a fideicomiso and a lease are two very different types of contracts.

BajaTed - 6-25-2021 at 11:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
My point is simply that a fideicomiso and a lease are two very different types of contracts.


Thanks for clarifying, its all good

DianaT - 12-22-2021 at 07:04 PM

I am reviving Udo's thread just as another warning to anyone who bought or sold property in Bahia Asuncion and used the services of Alonso and his local female partner. When we bought the property about 15 years ago, paperwork was done properly, and while there was an attempt to extort more money from us due to someone's convenient loss of memory and fuzzy math, the amount was small and we had our records in order.

When we sold 8 years ago, we again used the services of Alonso and his partner, and as it turns out, NOTHING was done correctly. Where the money we paid to them went we don't know, and even the Notario was involved in the fraud. We hear he is no longer a Notario. Paper work they sent to us was fraudulent, and while we had agreed to pay a commission to a Corporation, in the end we had to pay Alonso's local partner in her name only. We have no idea if the corporation ever existed.

Long story short, after months, today our nightmare ended because the same person who bought Udo's place bought our old place from the new owners --- the property was never put into the names of the people who bought our place and their new fideicomiso was just worthless paper.

So if you bought or sold property in BA around that time, we suggest you check to see if the title is correct. The correct title information is in Santa Rosalia, and as Udo suggested in the original post, Karla Estrella Espinoza Barraza, the Notaria in Vizcaino is a good person to work with.

Bahia Asuncion is a great place with a lot of great people. Had there been better medical services close by we would probably still have our home there. Overall, it was a positive 7 year chapter in our lives.




BajaLuna - 12-23-2021 at 07:00 PM

Udo, I'm so sorry this happened to you. But I know we are all relieved now to finally have it all settled.

P.S. I'll never forget your delicious gumbo you fixed us in BA a few years ago, I have never stopped thinking about it. It was the best I've ever had. Delicious and PERFECTO!

I wish you and Jana well!

BajaTed - 12-23-2021 at 07:58 PM

Our Notario got her gift card as usual, I'll stop by later in the year to see how the familia is.
For us folks from the Alta with Fideo's, your Notario is like your Patron.:o Treat them accordingly.

BajaBlanca - 12-25-2021 at 04:47 PM

What an ordeal. Thank goodness it is all done, Udo!

All I can say is that one has to read and reread every single word on all documents. Les is very careful and I cannot tell you how many errors in birthdates or names he has found.

JC43 - 12-28-2021 at 08:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  
This story is why you go in person to the publico notario to see your recorded fidecomiso. You then take a picture of the book cover and all the pages. Our 1987 family photos of the "book" in the Ensenada office led to it being shown again to us in 2018.
First thing shown to a realtor or Abagado is the business card of the Notario officer. If you don't meet this person on a F2F basis, your in over your head.
A good notario is better than any Abagado; rule #2 of Baja realty


Last week there was a thread here where a Mulegé “realtor” said you could buy houses from him with just a virtual inspection, and he would make all the paperwork happen w/o even needing to be in Mexico. A bunch of mulege nomads chimed in to say this “realtor” is More honest than Jesus, walks on water, turns water into wine, etc.

Sounds like Udo should have hired mulege Jesus as his agent.

The Mexican system of real estate transfer/title is a mess.


Well, personally I feel sorry for Udo. BUT !!!::: Udo, it is your own fault that it happened this way.
Reason for that: Gringoes buying a property in Mexico think they have to do it like they would do it in Grigoland.
O.K., let me explain.
1. Gringos think they need a title to be safe. BS! Question: What is a title good for as there is no title company in MX? Need a title to get a title insurance? What is a title insurance good for? Written (mostly) in English it has no value in MX.
An example of a title insurance issued by Lewis and Lewis went donw the drain. Claim was denied.
A title is worth no nothing looking at the safety of your purchase. It is only good for the gouvernment to get you by the balls getting money out of you. Without a title you are as safe as you have to be in re of your property. The only thing you got to have is the receipt that you paid for the property and of course a notarized selling/buying contract. As you got a title, you got to have a
2. Fideicomiso because the gouvernment is forcing you to have it. . And what is a fido good for???? You think you can not own a property in MX inside the 50Km zone? What????? Everybody who is buying a property in Baja, paying the purchase price, having a receipt for the payment and the notarized contract is the owner of said property. The property is in the buyers name. No question! The fido is the same scam of the MX gouvernment as the title thing. Worth no nothing. (Oh sorry, wrong. Worth a lot for the corrupt MX gouvernment to pull money out of your pockets if you are stupid enough) And as it happened so many times. You pay for a fido at the bank. And the bank says "Thanks for the money -- next year again please". Not delivering the fido to MX City to make it legal. Or selling it to another bank. They sell it to whom they want. Happend all the time - even to Udo.
Summary. If you want to live in MX, live and do it and act like a Mexicán. Don`t think you have to export your U.S. lifestyle and thinking to Mexico. It won`t work.
Udo is the best example. And he is not the only one.
Make your homework and ask Mexicans what is right and how to live in their country.
Udo: Now prefering a home on leased land??? What please? Don`t you know that a landlord just needs to "sell" the entire property (including your parcel) to his grandma or daughter and you are without any contract for your home you build or bought on said leased land. In that case your "dream-home" is getting a nother owner faster than you can walk away !!


[Edited on 12-28-2021 by JC43]