BajaNomad - Welp, no more having a Pacifico while cruising on a desolate trail down in Baja

Infrastructure Bill Would Require Alcohol Monitors for All New Cars

https://freebeacon.com/politics/infrastructure-bill-would-re...

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by JZ]

While I'm a fan of ending drinking and driving, I am not a fan of multiplying the number of devices that might disable your vehicle by error, or have to replace it with a new vehicle due to early high frequency repairs. Getting hard to find a vehicle suitable for Baja roads that isn't older technology.

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by JDCanuck]

vandy - 8-5-2021 at 04:54 AM

All I got out of the article?
Ban lobbying.

mtgoat666 - 8-5-2021 at 06:34 AM

MADD started over 40 years ago, and despite extensive efforts of MADD and many others, people still drive drunk.
People should not still be dieing from this.
Since you cant trust people to do the right thing, then maybe technology can fix stupidity, eh?

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by mtgoat666]

SFandH - 8-5-2021 at 08:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

MADD started over 40 years ago, and despite extensive efforts of MADD and many others, people still drive drunk.
People should not still be dieing from this.
Since you cant trust people to do the right thing, then maybe technology can fix stupidity, eh?

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by mtgoat666]

And then there was another group, DAMM, Drunks Against Mad Mothers. I know, I know, a tasteless joke.

BajaTed - 8-5-2021 at 08:53 AM

But by the grace of God go Thee.

EXACTLY; What everybody says when they read about someone they don't know killed by a DUI

I personally can't wait to see an alcoholic unable to start his car.

Its not gonna be pretty. They killed my friend.

How about road rage prevention?

AKgringo - 8-5-2021 at 08:59 AM

Imagine onboard A.I. that would not let you put your car in gear until after you view some random images on a screen, while answering questions. Sensors would monitor your vital signs while your eyes and and body language is being analyzed to determine if you are a threat to yourself, or others!

After all, if it saves one life, it would be worth it!

Terry28 - 8-5-2021 at 09:18 AM

fake news....

Skipjack Joe - 8-5-2021 at 09:19 AM

They're encroaching on our personal freedom too much. I don't like it.

BajaMama - 8-5-2021 at 09:26 AM

As someone who lost her father at 10 years old from drunk driving I absolutely support this.

Keep your alcohol levels below the legal limit of .08. JZ I'm sure a beer or two in the middle of nowhere in Baja will be fine, just don't get drunk.

No one has the right to drive drunk and kill me and my family.

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by BajaMama]

BajaMama - 8-5-2021 at 09:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry28

fake news....

I looked it up. Reported by multiple news sources. The legal limit of .08 will be built in so if you have a beer or two (on one if you're kid size like me) you're good to go.

JDCanuck - 8-5-2021 at 09:32 AM

I suppose it could be disactivated like the seatbelt chime, etc.
But the fact that something like that is hidden in an “Infrastructure” bill is another problem.
Could be good for the Baja community though. New opportunity for hiring a non drinking passenger to ride around and be the sober breath sample provider. lol!

Facial recognition linked to GPS sensors will likely be used by then as well. This will be marketed as an anti-theft device. Who could possibly resist that one?

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by JDCanuck]

That depends.....

AKgringo - 8-5-2021 at 09:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry28

fake news....

I looked it up. Reported by multiple news sources. The legal limit of .08 will be built in so if you have a beer or two (on one if you're kid size like me) you're good to go.

If you are taking certain medications, no amount of alcohol is safe! I used to take lisinopril (a heart medication) and with even a moderate amount of alcohol, I was at risk of fainting if my blood pressure dropped too low!

I no longer use either of those drugs!

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by AKgringo]

JDCanuck - 8-5-2021 at 10:46 AM

I know this isn't a very popular suggestion lately, but might we do better to fund the Police so they can get ALL the dangerous drivers off the road, including the drunk ones?

Good idea!

SFandH - 8-5-2021 at 11:30 AM

Sounds like the systems determine how well the car is being driven, not necessarily how much alcohol is being exhaled by the driver.

Drivers impaired for other reasons such as sleepiness, medication, distraction, and ?? will also be detected.

-------------------------------------------------

"Crucially, the new standard wouldn’t be limited to drunk drivers. Because the systems measure impairment directly, they would be just as effective at detecting impairment from prescription drugs, emotional distress, or simple distraction. A longer-term effort would also seek to mandate passive alcohol monitoring systems, like those currently being developed by Volvo."

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/3/22607890/infrastructure-im...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volvocars-safety/safety-f...

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by SFandH]

JZ - 8-5-2021 at 11:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Sounds like the systems determine how well the car is being driven, not necessarily how much alcohol is being exhaled by the driver.

Drivers impaired for other reasons such as sleepiness, medication, distraction, and ?? will also be detected.

Good idea!

-------------------------------------------------

"Crucially, the new standard wouldn’t be limited to drunk drivers. Because the systems measure impairment directly, they would be just as effective at detecting impairment from prescription drugs, emotional distress, or simple distraction. A longer-term effort would also seek to mandate passive alcohol monitoring systems, like those currently being developed by Volvo."

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/3/22607890/infrastructure-im...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volvocars-safety/safety-f...

I drove a rental from Indiana to Florida in January. It had lane detection technology in it.

It was the worst. It had like 5 levels of warnings it progressed through.

John Harper - 8-5-2021 at 11:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

I take lisinopril for BP. I haven't had any cross reaction with alcohol at all. And, I do like my alcohol, just never, ever drink and drive.

I wonder if JZ is as upset about kickstand switches and clutch switches on dirt bikes? Stopping drunks from driving seems a much better use of technology than keeping some idiot from starting in gear or taking off with the kickstand down. But, those are mandated by law already. The horror!

Pick your battles.

John

JZ - 8-5-2021 at 11:59 AM

Maybe the dog was driving..

John

She mostly rides shot gun.

[Edited on 8-5-2021 by JZ]

JDCanuck - 8-5-2021 at 11:59 AM

Not too surprised that the Chinese Geely who now owns Volvo is taking a lead in introducing electronic monitoring of drivers. They are way ahead of the US in that regard. It's been reported by Bloomberg through their facial recognition systems they can have the fines pulled from your account within a minute if you jaywalk

Chinese Geely (Volvo) and Facial Recognition

JDCanuck - 8-5-2021 at 12:44 PM

If this is where we were over 2 years ago, imagine what's possible now!
https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/facial-recognition

motoged - 8-5-2021 at 01:13 PM

They're encroaching on our personal freedom too much. I don't like it.

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

But I think you know that....some don't.

Skipjack Joe - 8-5-2021 at 04:49 PM

They're encroaching on our personal freedom too much. I don't like it.

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

But I think you know that....some don't.

I wrote to you that many expats in Baja are people who value personal freedom more than others. It's seldom mentioned but that's what I'm seeing. There is much more freedom here. Much of baja is unfenced so you can go anywhere. You can pull off anywhere and spend the night. Nobody has a registered license plates. I'm not sure there's even an DMV. In my village nobody stops at stop signs. There are no crosswalks. Dogs sleep in the middle of the road. A lot of us like this looseness and miss the old days when the US was like that.

The above proposal is just the sort of thing that many see as the civilized world encroaching on yet another freedom. If you really want to make a difference in saving lives then take their guns away. Oh, what a howl there would be.

mjs - 8-5-2021 at 05:46 PM

Not too surprised that the Chinese Geely who now owns Volvo is taking a lead in introducing electronic monitoring of drivers. They are way ahead of the US in that regard. It's been reported by Bloomberg through their facial recognition systems they can have the fines pulled from your account within a minute if you jaywalk

Not quite correct. Having spent some time in Shanghai (daughter lived there for a few years) if you're caught on camera jay walking then you'll likely be approached by a cop holding a picture of your violation on his/her phone. You'll be asked for your ID (which you're required to carry) and a ticket will be issued and printed right there. Don't have your ID? The cop will take a picture of your face and retrieve your ID that way. You can pay the ticket on the spot using WeChat or Weibo mobile phone apps.

Worth noting that unless you're a tourist you don't need to carry a wallet as most all purchases get paid by one of those two phone apps. Also worth noting as a tourist you'll get your picture taken when going through immigration so you'll have your face in the system so no escaping being I'D by being a foreigner.

The flip side of all this surveillance is that it was incredibly safe to walk anywhere in the city at any hour of the day or night.

John Harper - 8-5-2021 at 05:59 PM

Well, it's like they say. "This is why we can't have nice things."

In every case, some small percentage of idiots (drunk drivers, violent nuts with guns/shootings, litterbugs, graffitists, etc.) always ruin it for the rest of us who try to do the right thing. That's what happens when you try to govern 325 million "freedom" lovers. We already house more people in prison than China, what's the solution?

John

[Edited on 8-6-2021 by John Harper]

JZ - 8-5-2021 at 06:12 PM

...many expats in Baja are people who value personal freedom more than others. It's seldom mentioned but that's what I'm seeing. There is much more freedom here. Much of baja is unfenced so you can go anywhere. You can pull off anywhere and spend the night. Nobody has a registered license plates. I'm not sure there's even an DMV. In my village nobody stops at stop signs. There are no crosswalks. Dogs sleep in the middle of the road. A lot of us like this looseness and miss the old days when the US was like that.

The above proposal is just the sort of thing that many see as the civilized world encroaching on yet another freedom.

Best post you have made on the board in a long time. Well said.

[Edited on 8-6-2021 by JZ]

JZ - 8-5-2021 at 06:17 PM

We already house more people in prison than China, what's the solution?

John

Well we certainly don't want to follow China's lead on anything. They have put 3 million Uyghurs in interment camps the last several years. 67% more ppl than are in jail in the US.

I've been to China more than a dozen times, so let me know if you want an education on China taking freedom away from their citizens.

[Edited on 8-6-2021 by JZ]

John Harper - 8-5-2021 at 06:44 PM

Well we certainly don't want to follow China's lead on anything. They have put 3 million Uyghurs in interment camps. 67% more ppl than are in jail in the US.

IDK, we've had some issues here in the US during our 250 years. Someone's been a bit over caffeinated lately.

John

BeemerDan - 8-5-2021 at 10:41 PM

And here you are sticking your hand in the bowl stirring it up.
You've shown time and again that anyone you disagree with you go out of your way to disparage them, Whether it be your underhanded jabs at DK, or downright despicable behavior towards JZ.
You always seem to find a fault you can throw petty insults at, Like a trailer, vehicle, dog, bike and even family members.
Nothing is sacred to you is it?
You've changed Ged, and not for the better!

[Edited on 8-6-2021 by BajaNomad]

Tioloco - 8-6-2021 at 12:46 AM

Ged- Did you already serve out your probation term here for being a cancer?
Or has Doug just not seen your recent activity?
Seems like you should find some inner peace before you break through the thin ice you are standing on and end up in the Lake of the Banned.

JDCanuck - 8-6-2021 at 06:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Well we certainly don't want to follow China's lead on anything. They have put 3 million Uyghurs in interment camps. 67% more ppl than are in jail in the US.

IDK, we've had some issues here in the US during our 250 years. Someone's been a bit over caffeinated lately.

John

See what I mean? JZ starts a thread on drinking and driving, then turns the conversation to China politics.

I don't believe a word that's written.

We need to lighten up -- where's Paul? -- unless someone wants to debate and compare US vs. China politics?

Hi Lee: In defense of JZ, it was me that swung the discussion to China when i mentioned it was them that are leading in monitoring their populace through broad installation and use of facial recognition controls. My apologies if it seems off topic to further
controls installed in cars.

JDCanuck - 8-6-2021 at 06:37 AM

If I am out driving a vehicle in some remote area of the Baja, I want as simple a system that will not shut down electronically as possible. Maybe it's just me but that's why i like the old vehicles that came with a full set of tools so you could get up and running again. Friends have been all over the world with the old style BMW motorbikes and chose them for this very reason.
Just my preference of course.

[Edited on 8-6-2021 by JDCanuck]

Terry28 - 8-6-2021 at 08:55 AM

Relax people...it's just a proposal..doubt it will ever pass....probably a throw away item in the proprosed bill......

TMW - 8-6-2021 at 10:45 AM

JD I'm with you. I like it simple and easy to fix. Nothing against the new stuff just not for my off road truck. Someday maybe but not now.

JDCanuck - 8-6-2021 at 11:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

JD I'm with you. I like it simple and easy to fix. Nothing against the new stuff just not for my off road truck. Someday maybe but not now.

I'm sorta tracking the new electric vehicles. Hopefully they keep them simple and we only have to worry about the reduced set of parts they should be able to build them with. Rivian and the Lordstown one look attractive, but I am waiting a bit to see how they develope.

BeemerDan - 8-6-2021 at 12:20 PM

You have no idea what is sacred to me.

I did not know JZ was sacred to you.
What else do you hold sacred?

No, But spin it anyway you like. I'm talking about your personal attacks directed at the folks on this board that you have disagreements with.

willardguy - 8-6-2021 at 12:38 PM

You have no idea what is sacred to me.

I did not know JZ was sacred to you.
What else do you hold sacred?

No, But spin it anyway you like. I'm talking about your personal attacks directed at the folks on this board that you have disagreements with.

wow usually Dan only comes out when DK is taking a well deserved beating! Riddle me this Dan you've been supportive of mr.Z for his pretty pictures then you post this: "While I disagree with your political views, and certainly don't like the nicnames you give to certain posters. I do enjoy reading the RR's you've posted in the past.
No one and I mean no one should be threating anyone on the board whether its public or private in a U2U, and I hpoe you've reported it and that member is banned."
sorry buddy but you can't have it both ways

BajaBruno - 8-6-2021 at 01:40 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about this. If it does pass, within two weeks Amazon will be selling a product to defeat it.

BeemerDan - 8-6-2021 at 01:45 PM

You have no idea what is sacred to me.

I did not know JZ was sacred to you.
What else do you hold sacred?

No, But spin it anyway you like. I'm talking about your personal attacks directed at the folks on this board that you have disagreements with.

Whats your point? Trying to be civil to someone you disgree with isn't part of your demeanor?
I'm guessing you missed Ged's lastest post since Doug deleted it.

Yes I enjoy the pics and reading all posts related to Baja, and even the non-Baja reports as well, Even those from posters I don't entirely agree with for whatever reason.
Thanks for the input.

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by BajaNomad]

willardguy - 8-6-2021 at 02:44 PM

You have no idea what is sacred to me.

I did not know JZ was sacred to you.
What else do you hold sacred?

No, But spin it anyway you like. I'm talking about your personal attacks directed at the folks on this board that you have disagreements with.

well my point is if you want him banned like you say.....there goes the "pretty pictures" whats so hard to understand :?:

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 8-6-2021 at 03:25 PM

You have no idea what is sacred to me.

I did not know JZ was sacred to you.
What else do you hold sacred?

No, But spin it anyway you like. I'm talking about your personal attacks directed at the folks on this board that you have disagreements with.

well my point is if you want him banned like you say.....there goes the "pretty pictures" whats so hard to understand :?:

Pretty pics? More like dog-weirdo pictures. At least they aren't cat pics!

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by BajaNomad]

BeemerDan - 8-6-2021 at 04:27 PM

Quote:

well my point is if you want him banned like you say.....there goes the "pretty pictures" whats so hard to understand :?:

Um I think you may misunderstand, That post was in response to a certain poster named fishbuck who was physically threating the poster I responded to, or at lkeast that was my intent, If I made a mistake quoting someone then I sincerely apologise.

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by BajaNomad]

motoged - 8-6-2021 at 04:49 PM

Boy....this sure got weird....

I responded to JZ's offer to teach history and security measures in China as his dozen or so trips apparently has made him an expert in those realms as well as the usual ones.

I pointed out that other Nomads have clearly stated that his political posts were misleading, biased, and/or patently false.... and generally of little value rather to rally the fan club and stir a pot of rebuttal.

That seemed to elicit some criticism of me.....which is not difficult to handle, thank you.

Interesting how Fishbuck was resurrected by intent or brain fog, or something like that.

I wonder what Fishy is up to these days.

David K - 8-6-2021 at 05:25 PM

Fishbuck seems to be fine, not worried about Nomad ban, hoping to be flying in Baja soon. I see him on Facebook.

BeemerDan - 8-6-2021 at 07:03 PM

Boy....this sure got weird....

I responded to JZ's offer to teach history and security measures in China as his dozen or so trips apparently has made him an expert in those realms as well as the usual ones.

I pointed out that other Nomads have clearly stated that his political posts were misleading, biased, and/or patently false.... and generally of little value rather to rally the fan club and stir a pot of rebuttal.

That seemed to elicit some criticism of me.....which is not difficult to handle, thank you.

Interesting how Fishbuck was resurrected by intent or brain fog, or something like that.

I wonder what Fishy is up to these days.

Whatever...
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

I mostly ride Baja leaving the truck on the US side, I usually stop for one or two Pacifico's during the day on the way down.
The few times I've driven down in my truck I'm white knuckling so bad I don't even drink water till I stop for a break.

JDCanuck - 8-6-2021 at 09:11 PM

Quote:

Hi Dan: From the name I assume you now or previously had a BMW motorbike. Being interested in all things BMW could I ask which one?

Secondly: Is there a thread on this site that deals with interesting not so off road trips by bikers up and down the Baja specifically with maybe pics of interesting towns, villages or other spots? Or perhaps another site altogether ?

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by JDCanuck]

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by BajaNomad]

willardguy - 8-6-2021 at 09:49 PM

I mostly ride Baja leaving the truck on the US side, I usually stop for one or two Pacifico's during the day on the way down.
The few times I've driven down in my truck I'm white knuckling so bad I don't even drink water till I stop for a break.[/rquote]

Hi Dan: From the name I assume you now or previously had a BMW motorbike. Being interested in all things BMW could I ask which one?

Secondly: Is there a thread on this site that deals with interesting not so off road trips by bikers up and down the Baja specifically with maybe pics of interesting towns, villages or other spots? Or perhaps another site altogether ?

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by JDCanuck]

Ride Baja or ADV rider?

JDCanuck - 8-6-2021 at 09:59 PM

Thanks Willard: I've seen ADVRider, will look for the other. Lots of places to explore once we get down there again.

BeemerDan - 8-6-2021 at 10:34 PM

Hi, Yes I have an old R100GS that I've ridden several times in Baja, Canada, AK...Great bike but too heavy for more than well maintained dirt roads nowdays. I then started riding and old Kawi Super Sherpa 250 in Baja. I finally wore that bike out and bought a Honda CRF250 Rally that just seems to fit me and my slow riding style.
As far as riding Baja since I'm mostly alone I stay on the main tracks.
Best bets for all the info here are Motoged, DK MjS JZ and Harald to name a few. On ADVRider there's plenty of Baja tracks and ride reports to checkout.

JZ - 8-6-2021 at 10:46 PM

Secondly: Is there a thread on this site that deals with interesting not so off road trips by bikers up and down the Baja specifically with maybe pics of interesting towns, villages or other spots?

Hey JD, start a fresh thread on this topic.

We will give you a ton of good ideas to choose from. Just give us some specifics of what you are looking to do.

Next thing you know you'll have suggestions, maps, photos, and videos, etc., galore.

caj13 - 8-7-2021 at 08:18 AM

They're encroaching on our personal freedom too much. I don't like it.

You don't have personal right to drive drunk dumbass! Your endangering others who had no say in your ignorance .

stay home and drink yourself silly, call a cab, a friend, Uber,

Jesus the clowns here who justify drunk driving because they like to cruise baja backroads and get drunk , what a bunch of ignorant marooons!

caj13 - 8-7-2021 at 08:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBruno

I wouldn't worry too much about this. If it does pass, within two weeks Amazon will be selling a product to defeat it.

Yippee - so you can get back to Drunk driving in no time!

what a bunch of marooons!

motoged - 8-7-2021 at 08:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

They're encroaching on our personal freedom too much. I don't like it.

Skipjack isn't much of a "drinker" at all. I don't think he was promoting that it is okay to drive while drinking (while some good ol' boys here still think it's a ritual for driving in Baja).

Rather, he appreciates the minimal restrictions to be enjoyed in rural and small towns in Baja....although some of them are disappearing (eg. more locked gates).

There are some Nomads more deserving of some stinkeye.

Skipjack Joe - 8-7-2021 at 10:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

They're encroaching on our personal freedom too much. I don't like it.

I've never read a post by caj13 that isn't full of bile and anger. That's just his way. I pay him no mind. Everyone is different. The people who angry people hurt the most are themselves. It's not a healthy way to live. Life is too short to waste.

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by Skipjack Joe]

caj13 - 8-7-2021 at 11:26 AM

They're encroaching on our personal freedom too much. I don't like it. [/rquote]

You don't have personal right to drive drunk dumbass! Your endangering others who had no say in your ignorance .

stay home and drink yourself silly, call a cab, a friend, Uber,

Jesus the clowns here who justify drunk driving because they like to cruise baja backroads and get drunk , what a bunch of ignorant marooons![/rquote]

I've never read a post by caj13 that isn't full of bile and anger. That's just his way. I pay him no mind. Everyone is different. The people who angry people hurt the most are themselves. It's not a healthy way to live. Life is too short to waste.

[Edited on 8-7-2021 by Skipjack Joe]

I guess you havent read alot of my posts skipjack, but you do have one thing right, I am full of anger and Bile at ANYONE who thinks in any way it is OK to Drive drunk.

Once again - it's not your personal freedom - and you know that very well! Talk like that is from clowns trying to justify their dangerous behavior.

you want to take you life into you own hands - i'm all for it - go skydiving, scuba dive cenotes, fly hnggliders, whatever.

But don't be the marooon who endangers other poeples lives because they think they need to get liquored up to enjoy driving. I repeat - its not your right - deal with it!

BajaBruno - 8-7-2021 at 11:35 AM

[/rquote]

The people who angry people hurt the most are themselves. It's not a healthy way to live. Life is too short to waste.

Well said, Mr. Skipjack. Anger corrodes the soul of not only those who are angry, but all of those around them.

For the record, there is considerable difference between drinking and driving (which used to be legal in states such as Texas) and drunk driving. The distinction is worthy of being noted.

del mar - 8-7-2021 at 11:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBruno

[/rquote]

The people who angry people hurt the most are themselves. It's not a healthy way to live. Life is too short to waste.

thank you sir!

caj13 - 8-8-2021 at 04:05 AM

I love how so many of you Nomads twist and turn doing mental gymnastics looking for a way to justify drunk Driving!

attack the messenger - check
wordsmith it away - Check
Deflect - Check
Justify - Check
False equivalency - Check

One more time: It's not your personal right - get over it!

JDCanuck - 8-8-2021 at 07:00 AM

I think MADD and others have done a great job reducing the senseless deaths from Drunk Driving. The stats I am seeing is the number one cause of traffic deaths is now distracted driving, mainly caused by people who are overly tied to their cellphones. I'm losing track of how many times I have had someone turn left right in front of me, or push me out of my lane on the highway because they just had to pick up that incoming call.

LancairDriver - 8-8-2021 at 07:21 AM

Some people on this forum have heard the saying “8 hours from bottle to throttle”.and know where that applies.
How many have stopped for lunch or a break while driving and had a beer or two. Does this mean they are driving drunk?
Fortunately the US has set a standard for deciding when you are driving drunk. Most states it is .08 with a breathalyzer or blood test.
Laws vary from country to country. Open container while driving in the US is illegal in most states. What is the law in Baja?
If you see someone driving in Baja with a beer do you think they must be drunk? Maybe a bit of a stretch with that assumption.

surfhat - 8-8-2021 at 09:56 AM

How much better does that brew taste when it is waited for after a drive?

Why dilute [?] the driving experience when it tastes so fine after the driving is done, and a second round is no concern.

To each his own.

Lee - 8-8-2021 at 10:30 AM

Needed assistance in changing a RV tire at Maranatha in La Paz and the office called a shop for me.

Middle age chubby MX shows up reeking of alcohol, while holding a ballena. Everything worked out but had my doubts early on.

Jack Swords - 8-8-2021 at 12:38 PM

Rolled my Tacoma outside of La Paz. Police called towtruck (after solicitring "tip". Had to stop on the way to Todos Santos (home) for the bathroom, including several beers (on me of course). Made it OK, truck was totaled, me OK.

vandy - 8-9-2021 at 05:57 AM

I just saw an entertaining short video about a dystopian future nanny state.
One of the first few scenes is having to start your car with a breathalyzer.
I immediately thought of this thread.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vJYaXy5mmA8

SFandH - 8-9-2021 at 06:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by vandy

I just saw an entertaining short video about a dystopian future nanny state.
One of the first few scenes is having to start your car with a breathalyzer.
I immediately thought of this thread.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vJYaXy5mmA8

"Omeleto - The World's Best Short Films"

Looks like an interesting youtube channel.

Thanks

John Harper - 8-9-2021 at 07:09 AM

We already have:

Backup cameras and sensors
Automatic braking and parking systems.
Seatbelt alarms
Door Ajar alarms
Airbag sensors for children
Brake pedal/transmission interlocks
Clutch interlocks (autos and motos)
Kickstand switch interlocks (motos)
Bank Angle Sensor interlocks (motos)

What's the big deal about blowing into a sensor on your steering wheel?

I don't see anyone crying "nanny state" about any of the above safety/convenience features.

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

John

[Edited on 8-9-2021 by John Harper]

AKgringo - 8-9-2021 at 07:22 AM

John, your left shoulder is blocking my view of your screen! Could you move a little to the right so I can read your text before you post it?

Thanks for being a good citizen and not resisting!

mtgoat666 - 8-9-2021 at 07:38 AM

I love adaptive cruise control. I am eagerly awaiting autonomous self-driving car. I also look forward to day that smart cars refuse to move for drunks (or trump voters) :!:

JZ - 8-9-2021 at 07:58 AM

We already have:

Backup cameras and sensors
Automatic braking and parking systems.
Seatbelt alarms
Door Ajar alarms
Airbag sensors for children
Brake pedal/transmission interlocks
Clutch interlocks (autos and motos)
Kickstand switch interlocks (motos)
Bank Angle Sensor interlocks (motos)

What's the big deal about blowing into a sensor on your steering wheel?

I don't see anyone crying "nanny state" about any of the above safety/convenience features.

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

John

[Edited on 8-9-2021 by John Harper]

My bikes don't do any of that sh#t. Why you libs want the govt. to control every aspect of your lives is beyond me.

There is a reason why some teach instead of facing the real world.

[Edited on 8-9-2021 by JZ]

motoged - 8-9-2021 at 08:56 AM

You just can't keep from insulting people who hold opposing beliefs?

Your bikes don't have those features because you don't have a street legal bike ... and that's because you are afraid of riding on the street. What about those features on your truck.... you don't use your seatbelts?

John is in the profession that educated your kids.... you don't respect them?

Putz ....

SFandH - 8-9-2021 at 09:29 AM

All of these safety features prevent ACCIDENTS from happening or decrease the severity of injury if an accident happens.

You can be the most careful person in the world and still get nailed by an impaired/distracted driver running a red light or stop sign.

It's ironic that selling points of the new all-electric cars are their high horsepower and the ability to accelerate to 60 mph in a few seconds. Speed kills.

[Edited on 8-9-2021 by SFandH]

Tioloco - 8-9-2021 at 09:57 AM

JZ, you make a valid point.

BajaMama - 8-9-2021 at 10:37 AM

It is called a social contract. If you choose to live among other humans, you consent to governance. It isn't a liberal or conservative issue - it is a money issue. You drive drunk and kill 8 people you're going to get sued for millions. Hospital expenses will be astronomical Insurance rates and health expenses go up for everyone. Make drunk driving illegal (.08% +) and it keeps costs down for everyone. All laws are passed for monetary reasons and to protect us from the 1/2 that have below average intelligence and make stupid decisions that affect others.

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 10:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

My reluctance to support some of these new safety regulations and devices comes from two points:
1) faulty safety related interlocks that disable a vehicles operation when you are in a remote location
2) increasingly expensive costs to keep these newly equipped vehicles on the road leading to far more rapid replacement which costs both the environment, leads to far quicker global warming and the average person's pocketbook
My choice for an electric vehicle would be because it has far fewer climate related consequences and far better durability to keep those climate savings at a maximum. Greater speed is a consequence of much higher efficiencies for the same energy input.

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 11:07 AM

When you get one of these disabling devices preventing operation of a vehicle in a remote location due to poor ground, P-nched wire, etc., how do you safely override it to get out of there?
This happened to our SUV, doors all locked and power steering disabled all due to a bad ground on the body control computer. My wife is now trapped in car and heading to a curve with very difficult steering. Only solution was shutting off engine to avoid a dangerous situation.

[Edited on 8-9-2021 by JDCanuck]

[Edited on 8-9-2021 by JDCanuck]

Tioloco - 8-9-2021 at 11:21 AM

Bajamama- Social Contract is a theory. Most people are unaware of it. Its mere existence does not imply its validity.

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 11:29 AM

Perhaps there is a place for disabling sensors in cases where someone has been caught drinking and driving. (isn't this already in place?) But to design them into every vehicle out there seems to me to be full of possible negative unwanted results.

Tioloco - 8-9-2021 at 11:31 AM

Perhaps there is a place for disabling sensors in cases where someone has been caught drinking and driving. (isn't this already in place?) But to design them into every vehicle out there seems to me to be full of possible negative unwanted results.

Correct

motoged - 8-9-2021 at 12:14 PM

Bajamama- Social Contract is a theory. Most people are unaware of it. Its mere existence does not imply its validity.

Lack of awareness doesn't make it invalid. :light:

"Social Contract Theory
Social contract theory says that people live together in society in accordance with an agreement that establishes moral and political rules of behavior. Some people believe that if we live according to a social contract, we can live morally by our own choice and not because a divine being requires it.

Over the centuries, philosophers as far back as Socrates have tried to describe the ideal social contract, and to explain how existing social contracts have evolved. Philosopher Stuart Rachels suggests that morality is the set of rules governing behavior that rational people accept, on the condition that others accept them too.

Social contracts can be explicit, such as laws, or implicit, such as raising one’s hand in class to speak. The U.S. Constitution is often cited as an explicit example of part of America’s social contract. It sets out what the government can and cannot do. People who choose to live in America agree to be governed by the moral and political obligations outlined in the Constitution’s social contract.

Indeed, regardless of whether social contracts are explicit or implicit, they provide a valuable framework for harmony in society."

[Edited on 8-9-2021 by motoged]

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 12:31 PM

Bajamama- Social Contract is a theory. Most people are unaware of it. Its mere existence does not imply its validity.

Lack of awareness doesn't make it invalid. :light:

And so more and more people look to leave the centers of civilization in the bigger cities and more restrictive States and seek out a simpler less restrictive life in places like the Baja, Florida, Texas and Utah

motoged - 8-9-2021 at 12:35 PM

A good read if anyone wants some more insight to the concept.
It would appear some folks aren't willing to accept the notion of "the common good" and perhaps this will always be the case in the discussion of pros and cons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 01:32 PM

My ancestors(Quakers) came to America to escape societal demands they were under in Europe, their descendants went to Northern Canada to seek new opportunities and fewer imposed restrictions, now we seek that less restrictive life in Baja. I wonder where our descendants will escape to.

motoged - 8-9-2021 at 03:35 PM

My ancestors(Quakers) came to America to escape societal demands they were under in Europe, their descendants went to Northern Canada to seek new opportunities and fewer imposed restrictions, now we seek that less restrictive life in Baja. I wonder where our descendants will escape to.

History can help us understand our current situations at times.
Three of my four grandparents moved from Europe to Canada in the early 1900's to seek a better life.

When did your ancestors move to northern Canada?

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 03:54 PM

Just after the civil war. Story was cousins were on opposite sides and it got a bit hairy between them. Our branch was from the North. Values came with them. I remember the later ones that I saw as deeply religious, tolerant and inclusive. Values I'd like to pass on to my grandkids and great grandkids.

[Edited on 8-9-2021 by JDCanuck]

Don Pisto - 8-9-2021 at 04:06 PM

who brought the poutine? I'd like to shake his hand!

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 04:13 PM

Unlike so many today, I feel tremendous debt to my uncles and my Dad, all of whom were in Europe for WWII as young men. They came back seeing how great we had it and how bad it could get if we didn't continuously defend the values our countries were built on. We should not be too quick to surrender what they protected.

motoged - 8-9-2021 at 04:59 PM

My recollection of Quaker history is that by the time of the civil war in the USA saw the Quakers shifting their ideology ( starting in the mid 1700's) from supporting slavery to, for some, opposing it and being instrumental in setting up the underground railway system supporting fleeing slaves.

As their internal factions continued to fight amongst themselves, the American Quakers developed into supporting better treatment of mentally ill, a commitment to pacifism, and continued and increased their work in the areas of social justice and equality.

In the first half of the 1900's this developing liberalism became another split in ideologies with this evangelical following. In the last half of the 1900's, Quakers were clearly supporting same-sex marriage, gay rights, and women's rights to abortion. By the end of the 1900's this "liberalism" became an issue for some based on the long-standing conflict within the Quaker movement of spiritual practice unencumbered by religious practice.

Seems like they have been on the move since the 1600's.... not so much since the mid-1800's.

Why not Baja ? Quaker or not. :light:

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 05:43 PM

Most of that post is as it was told to me. This is why I find it so odd to hear religious people increasingly spoken of as intolerant, abusive and non-inclusive by those who teach our children history, and more so by people in government that maintain because of their inherent belief system they should be excluded from public office. How can anyone who has a firmly embedded ethical belief system be forced to abandon their ethics because someone else does not hold to the same ethics?
Quakers themselves were subjected to abuse because their particular beliefs were not in alignment with those who controlled the standards of the time. Freedom of Religion was crafted around that same time, along with freedoms of speech.

And we have drifted WAY off topic...we'll discuss this if we ever get together in person

[Edited on 8-10-2021 by JDCanuck]

[Edited on 8-10-2021 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 8-9-2021 at 05:48 PM

People in usa like to think their ancestors emigrated from europe to usa for noble reasons of freedom, religion , etc.
fact is that 99.9% of immigrants left Europe due to lack of economic opportunity, famine, etc.
They brought their religious baggage, and then created fables about religious persecution, freedom, etc. makes for good stories.

AguaDulce - 8-9-2021 at 06:08 PM

Fact? Well, my mother after concentration camp escape came here. Wanted to start a new life. She must be the .1 percent

SFandH - 8-9-2021 at 06:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Come on Goat, that's a wild exaggeration. People have been moving to North America from Europe for 400 years for all sorts of reasons. I know my western European ancestors moved here because they knew someday a descendant (me) would want to hang out at a southern California beach and ride waves. They were right. :lol:

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 06:24 PM

fact is that 99.9% of immigrants left Europe due to lack of economic opportunity, famine, etc.

Well, thats a story for another day from the other side. You must have Irish blood too eh? Smugglers, thieves, drunkards, fighters, boy is that side ever interesting! Yet, somehow they too managed to fit into this increasingly varied and interesting society.

[Edited on 8-10-2021 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 8-9-2021 at 06:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

I forgot 2 categories from my list: servitude and slavery.

motoged - 8-9-2021 at 07:08 PM

Why you libs want the govt. to control every aspect of your lives is beyond me.

There is a reason why some teach instead of facing the real world.
[Edited on 8-9-2021 by JZ]

JZ, you make a valid point.

Which point is that?

JDCanuck - 8-9-2021 at 08:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto

who brought the poutine? I'd like to shake his hand!

Don; I'm gonna guess it was the French, and yeah, I like that stuff too. Are French Fries still outlawed in the US?

Skipjack Joe - 8-9-2021 at 11:39 PM

LONELY ARE THE BRAVE

is about the loss of personal freedom. It's one of my very favorite movies. Watch it if you haven't seen it already. It has very much to do with this thread.

westafricancaptain - 8-10-2021 at 01:43 PM

My favorite movie...Gunga Din!

BajaMama - 8-11-2021 at 11:41 AM

I would like to point out that my argument was completely overlooked. I was implying that laws and regulations made to protect us are not a liberal or conservative decision, they are a monetary decision.

When people doing unsafe things start to cost society and not just individuals, laws get passed to curb that cost.

Seat belts. Mandatory liability insurance. Motorcycle helmets. Drunk driving laws.

JDCanuck - 8-11-2021 at 12:42 PM

I would like to point out that my argument was completely overlooked. I was implying that laws and regulations made to protect us are not a liberal or conservative decision, they are a monetary decision.

When people doing unsafe things start to cost society and not just individuals, laws get passed to curb that cost.

Seat belts. Mandatory liability insurance. Motorcycle helmets. Drunk driving laws.

I don't think it was overlooked, it was a very valid point so not challenged.

BajaMama - 8-12-2021 at 06:55 AM