BajaNomad

The palm tree is going two feet under water

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RFClark - 8-8-2023 at 09:25 PM

S,

When you and goat choke on considering that the data being collected by real scientists and published in real journals shows that the models are wrong and that according to those papers ocean warming could be overstated by as much as 30%. You and goat are climate change deniers just like those who deny it’s changing at all.

This is another example of the “this” in “if this keeps up” being overstated. I bet that the major news outlets won’t cover this major climate change news cause it doesn’t fit their narrative.

RFClark - 8-9-2023 at 03:47 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/09/hoodies-sell-o...

“Tonga is bracing for more chilly weather as the Pacific nation shivers through one of its coldest winters ever, sparking a rush for jackets and heating units.

The island has experienced unusually cold weather through July and Tonga Meteorological Services (TMS) recorded a low of 9.3 degrees Celsius at the Lapaha village weather station at the end of the month. The country’s record low of 8.7C was set in September 1994.

Better known for its warm weather and beaches, the archipelago in the south Pacific ocean usually sees winter temperatures in the range of 18C to 21C.”

caj13 - 8-9-2023 at 07:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
S,

When you and goat choke on considering that the data being collected by real scientists and published in real journals shows that the models are wrong and that according to those papers ocean warming could be overstated by as much as 30%. You and goat are climate change deniers just like those who deny it’s changing at all.

This is another example of the “this” in “if this keeps up” being overstated. I bet that the major news outlets won’t cover this major climate change news cause it doesn’t fit their narrative.


Once again RF - can you give me an actual citation of these papers? where are you getting your "facts"

caj13 - 8-9-2023 at 07:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
As she explains, all these "scientists" have an incentive to exaggerate CC.

And those that don't are cast out. To deny those facts would require a lot of putting your head in the sand. The system is financially biased to only support one outcome.

It takes an open mind to see through all the bs. Have an open mind instead of insulting someone's character.



Once again - you purposely ignore my questions and facts - and try to shout louder so no one hears the truth.
virtually all of the "points" she makes in the video - calling the scientists predictions wrong - or over inflated - well guess what - here we are 10 years later - and turns out those scientific predictions are accurate and cominf true - and she is flat wrong.

You should have no issues with that JZ - thats the way science works - she made a bunch of claims - - and turns out - those claims are provably wrong - with real data - - deal with it - another False prophet for the MAGA marooonS unmasked!

surabi - 8-9-2023 at 10:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/09/hoodies-sell-o...

“Tonga is bracing for more chilly weather as the Pacific nation shivers through one of its coldest winters ever, sparking a rush for jackets and heating units.

The island has experienced unusually cold weather through July and Tonga Meteorological Services (TMS) recorded a low of 9.3 degrees Celsius at the Lapaha village weather station at the end of the month. The country’s record low of 8.7C was set in September 1994.

Better known for its warm weather and beaches, the archipelago in the south Pacific ocean usually sees winter temperatures in the range of 18C to 21C.”


What's your point, RF? That because it's unprecendently cold somewhere that means there's not global warming?
That's exactly part of the escalating climate change- unnaturally cold in some areas and unnaturally hot in others.
You obviously don't understand climate change at all.

Lee - 8-9-2023 at 12:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
An electric bus company that was touted as the future by govt. officials goes bankrupt. It received millions (billions?) in funding from the government. Several govt. officials and big political cats had major shares/board seats in the company. All cashed out before the collapse.

This is the corruption in govt. from seeding the EV industry that we all warned about. This is what happens when the government drives things. Especially before technology or infrastructure are ready for it.


Scratching my head. Read your comments and think ''so what?''

Are you losing sleep over corruption?

In the 60s, some people demonstrated by withholding taxes from the gov't that was feeding the war. Noble thoughts but flawed.

Stop paying taxes JZ that feed climate change. Walk the walk.

You might be too sensitive for the corruption in the US. It's all corrupt. Deal with it.

pacificobob - 8-9-2023 at 03:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
An electric bus company that was touted as the future by govt. officials goes bankrupt. It received millions (billions?) in funding from the government. Several govt. officials and big political cats had major shares/board seats in the company. All cashed out before the collapse.

This is the corruption in govt. from seeding the EV industry that we all warned about. This is what happens when the government drives things. Especially before technology or infrastructure are ready for it.


Scratching my head. Read your comments and think ''so what?''

Are you losing sleep over corruption?

In the 60s, some people demonstrated by withholding taxes from the gov't that was feeding the war. Noble thoughts but flawed.

Stop paying taxes JZ that feed climate change. Walk the walk.

You might be too sensitive for the corruption in the US. It's all corrupt. Deal with it.


Good council for all the like minded fossil fuel fascists on BN.

RFClark - 8-9-2023 at 05:06 PM

S,

Which part of you are a climate change denier cause you can’t deal with your “if this keeps up” being overstated by 30%!

Again 30% is equal to the entire US quitting using hydrocarbons.

Number of exclamation points used - 1


RFClark - 8-9-2023 at 05:18 PM

Caj13,

Start here, they reference other sources.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25934500-100-somethin...

https://thebulletin.org/2022/12/whats-wrong-with-these-clima...

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/06/24/pacific-ocean-c...

https://www.science.org/content/article/use-too-hot-climate-...

surabi - 8-9-2023 at 07:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
S,

Which part of you are a climate change denier....



Oh, cute, now you right wingers are perverting the meaning of "denier", just like you have perverted the meaning of "baby", "woke", "groomer" and "pedophile"?

elgatoloco - 8-9-2023 at 09:06 PM

MAGA :lol:

Tioloco - 8-11-2023 at 09:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
We need another clean up on the palm tree isle!


Haha! That is a good one! And yes, you are correct.

Meanwhile, Hawaii governor just blamed the fire on climate change. Time to make some popcorn….

caj13 - 8-14-2023 at 11:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
As she explains, all these "scientists" have an incentive to exaggerate CC.

And those that don't are cast out. To deny those facts would require a lot of putting your head in the sand. The system is financially biased to only support one outcome.

It takes an open mind to see through all the bs. Have an open mind instead of insulting someone's character.



first of all JZ - who funds her current research? and second of all - as I already pointed out your beloved video was 12 years old - and current data and trends clearly indicate that she was wrong - turns out those predictions she said were "overstated" turns out they are correct - and shes wrong - see thats how science works - we look at the data, and the data tell us the answer - even if its not what we want to hear!

caj13 - 8-14-2023 at 11:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Caj13,

Start here, they reference other sources.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25934500-100-somethin...

https://thebulletin.org/2022/12/whats-wrong-with-these-clima...

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/06/24/pacific-ocean-c...

https://www.science.org/content/article/use-too-hot-climate-...


so did you not read these? or are you unable to understand them? because what they say - uh - not really what you claim!

mtgoat666 - 8-14-2023 at 03:13 PM

How many innocent palm trees died last week in the global-warming-caused wildfires on Maui?

Tioloco - 8-14-2023 at 03:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
How many innocent palm trees died last week in the global-warming-caused wildfires on Maui?


Global warming caused wild fires??

Fires are a natural phenomenon that man has no responsibility for.

However, given that man chooses to build structures in fire prone areas, it is wise to do forestry management projects to mitigate the dangers to humans and structures.

Using a fire and ensuing tragedy to promote global warming is disingenuous.

On a side note- wildfires and volcanic activity obviously increase the earths surface temperature much like a stove or fireplace increases your room temperature.

The Hawaiian islands are the byproduct of volcanic eruptions. Fires there are natural. Alarmists ignore that because “recent history” didnt have a fire in that particular location.

Eventually, those islands will fade away to naturally occurring erosion unless there is further volcanic activity. That is a fact.

surabi - 8-14-2023 at 07:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


Fires are a natural phenomenon that man has no responsibility for.



As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. 85% of wildfires are started by humans. Only a small percentage are caused by natural phenomenon- lightning strikes, hot lava or spontaneous combustion of material caused by intense sunlight.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation....

And global warming, leading to dry, drought conditions obviously makes the likelihood of a fire spreading quickly much greater. As do increasing numbers and intensities of hurricanes caused by global warming, as happened in Maui.

Tioloco - 8-14-2023 at 07:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


Fires are a natural phenomenon that man has no responsibility for.



As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. 85% of wildfires are started by humans. Only a small percentage are caused by natural phenomenon- lightning strikes, hot lava or spontaneous combustion of material caused by intense sunlight.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation....

And global warming, leading to dry, drought conditions obviously makes the likelihood of a fire spreading quickly much greater. As do increasing numbers and intensities of hurricanes caused by global warming, as happened in Maui.


Surabi-

You are grossly ignorant to how many things work. Yet you continue to live in your own haze.

Wildfires have occurred since the dawn of time. They are actually very healthy for the forests as they naturally clean out the dense dead underbrush. Which by the way is also natural. The only thing man is responsible for in this is building structures in the path of nature’s inevitable burn cycle.

Responsible forestry management by humans involves thinning and cutting and controlled burns. This is for humans to coexist with nature. But your tree hugger brethren tries to stop that every time.

Put your climate cult coffee mug down and go back to speaking about something you are knowledgeable. If that exists.

AKgringo - 8-14-2023 at 07:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  


And global warming, leading to dry, drought conditions obviously makes the likelihood of a fire spreading quickly much greater.


That depends on other factors. Drought where I am right now in Northern CA is an annual event. This year the fire danger is much higher because we had a wet, cold winter. I lost dozens of mature trees either broken by heavy, wind driven sleet, or they went over roots and all due to saturated soil.

I have been working for months to pile and burn the limbs and broken tops, but the extra water content in the soil plus more sunlight reaching the ground has resulted in explosive ground cover growth, which is now becoming wild fire fuel.

surabi - 8-14-2023 at 08:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  




You are grossly ignorant to how many things work. Yet you continue to live in your own haze.

Wildfires have occurred since the dawn of time. They are actually very healthy for the forests as they naturally clean out the dense dead underbrush. Which by the way is also natural. The only thing man is responsible for in this is building structures in the path of nature’s inevitable burn cycle.



I suggest you tell 90% of the world's climate scientists how grossly ignorant they are.

And what part of "85% of wildfires are started by humans" is difficult for you to grasp? If only 15% are started by natural causes, obviously the wildfires that have occurred "since the dawn of time" were far less frequent and widespread without humans around. Therefore, the number of wildfires caused by man, and the amount of forests they are responsible for burning down is neither natural nor "good".

Your inability to think logically or accept any facts which don't jive with your preconceived notions is rivaled only by your overestimation of your own intelligence.


Tioloco - 8-14-2023 at 08:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  




You are grossly ignorant to how many things work. Yet you continue to live in your own haze.

Wildfires have occurred since the dawn of time. They are actually very healthy for the forests as they naturally clean out the dense dead underbrush. Which by the way is also natural. The only thing man is responsible for in this is building structures in the path of nature’s inevitable burn cycle.



I suggest you tell 90% of the world's climate scientists how grossly ignorant they are.

And what part of "85% of wildfires are started by humans" is difficult for you to grasp? If only 15% are started by natural causes, obviously the wildfires that have occurred "since the dawn of time" were far less frequent and widespread without humans around. Therefore, the number of wildfires caused by man, and the amount of forests they are responsible for burning down is neither natural nor "good".

Your inability to think logically or accept any facts which don't jive with your preconceived notions is rivaled only by your overestimation of your own intelligence.



Surabi-

To have an intelligent dialogue you must realize the comparison must be made assuming humans dont exist. In that case, 100 percent of the fires will be caused by natural events.

If that was the case, the forests naturally burn and arent stopped by firefighting/ aerial attacks/ cutting fire breaks to stop the fire.

You have a hard time seeing things through a prism apart from man made climate change.

Some additional food for your starving thought process- Many fires caused by lightning are allowed to burn out naturally when they dont have any manmade structures that need protected.
You need to realize the urgency and emergency nature of stopping these fires would not exist if humans weren’t continuing to build more and more into areas that were previously pristine.

Firefighting is a relatively modern technique. To my knowledge, there are no other inhabitants of earth beside humans that have the inclination or the ability to stop a fire.

Your world is one of doom and gloom. Sorry I can’t help you with that.

surabi - 8-14-2023 at 09:21 PM

Sorry to disappoint you, but my world is not one of doom and gloom, it is working for positive change.

Everything you have to say on the topic of climate change is either irrelevant or condescending, as if I or others don't understand the kindergarten level statements you make.

Tioloco - 8-14-2023 at 09:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Sorry to disappoint you, but my world is not one of doom and gloom, it is working for positive change.

Everything you have to say on the topic of climate change is either irrelevant or condescending, as if I or others don't understand the kindergarten level statements you make.


I mean no condescension toward you. I have given you opportunity to prove some of your slanderous statements about other posters on this board.

It isn’t condescending to tell someone they haven’t weighed the other possibilities. You have handcuffed and chained yourself to an ideology that is definitely unproven.

In your mind, it seems you are unable to see anything other than the world is going to burn to the ground as a result of the brainwashing from political idealogues that have a horse in the race.

I implore you to take your goggles and mask off and look at and smell the roses for yourself. They are much more beautiful in person than just listening to how they are described by others.

RFClark - 8-14-2023 at 09:40 PM

caj13 & surabi,

I’m not saying anything the articles I posted are saying things. Basically that the real weather isn’t following their models and scientists are using models that predict unrealistically high temperatures.

“Something strange is happening in the Pacific and we must find out why
Unexpectedly, the eastern Pacific Ocean is cooling. If this “cold tongue” continues, it could reduce greenhouse gas warming by 30 per cent – but also bring megadrought to the US”

“ Scientists need to get much choosier in how they use model results, a group of climate scientists argues in a commentary published today in Nature. Researchers should no longer simply use the average of all the climate model projections, which can result in global temperatures by 2100 up to 0.7°C warmer than an estimate from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). “We need to use a slightly different approach,” says Zeke Hausfather, climate research lead at payment services company Stripe and lead author of the commentary. “We must move away from the naïve idea of model democracy.” Instead, he and his colleagues call for a model meritocracy, prioritizing, at times, results from models known to have more realistic warming rates.”

GIGO!

Exclamation points - 1


mtgoat666 - 8-14-2023 at 09:43 PM

Record shattering: Earth had its hottest July in 174 years
https://www.noaa.gov/news/record-shattering-earth-had-its-ho...

And…

Sea ice coverage hit a record low: July 2023 set a record for the lowest global July sea ice extent (coverage) on record. Globally, sea ice extent in July 2023 was about 470,000 square miles less than the previous record low from July 2019.

Goat note: 470,000 sq miles, that’s more than the size of the state of Texas

RFClark - 8-14-2023 at 10:04 PM

Goat,

NOAA has doubled down on an above normal hurricane season for 2023.let’s see how the models do.

“Scientists at NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center — a division of the National Weather Service — have increased their prediction for the ongoing 2023 Atlantic hurricane season from a near-normal level of activity to an above-normal level of activity with today’s update. Forecasters believe that current ocean and atmospheric conditions, such as record-warm Atlantic sea surface temperatures, are likely to counterbalance the usually limiting atmospheric conditions associated with the ongoing El Nino event.

NOAA forecasters have increased the likelihood of an above-normal Atlantic hurricane season to 60% (increased from the outlook issued in May, which predicted a 30% chance). The likelihood of near-normal activity has decreased to 25%, down from the 40% chances outlined in May's outlook. This new update gives the Atlantic a 15% chance of seeing a below-normal season.”

surabi - 8-14-2023 at 10:41 PM

And in Canada...

"By 4 p.m. Monday at least 12 daily heat records had fallen across B.C., surpassing the eight that fell Sunday.

The 40 C benchmark was also broken for the first time in Canada this year, with the mercury hitting 40.5 C near Lytton in the southern Interior and 40.1 C at Lillooet in the Fraser Valley on Monday afternoon."

[Edited on 8-15-2023 by surabi]

Tioloco - 8-14-2023 at 10:46 PM

Surabi-

Do you expect the world to stay the same? No temperature variation?
Have you ever seen a line graph for 100,000 years or so to see how insignificant these last 100 years is in the grand scheme of things?

Ice ages and extreme heat are nothing new. Stop the BS

surabi - 8-14-2023 at 11:01 PM

No one cares what happened 100,000 years ago except man-made climate change deniers. We care if life can survive on this planet given the rapid and dangerously escalating rate of climate change.

[Edited on 8-15-2023 by surabi]

Tioloco - 8-14-2023 at 11:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
No one cares what happened 100,000 years ago except man-made climate change deniers. We care if life can survive on this planet given the rapid and dangerously escalating rate of climate change.

[Edited on 8-15-2023 by surabi]


That is exactly what I thought you would come up with.

Apparently science and history only apply to the last couple decades. Talk about context. You are displaying your ignorance “bigly”!

Tioloco - 8-14-2023 at 11:16 PM

Surabi, Goatchaser, SFH,

If the sea level is really rising as the doomsdayers say, why are $100,000,000 resort projects being built on the beaches all over the world? The banks are financing them…… Why would they do that if they were in danger????

Why do all the climate change politicians own expensive beach front homes?

Why is that????

Can anyone give a rational answer to this?

mtgoat666 - 8-15-2023 at 12:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Surabi, Goatchaser, SFH,

If the sea level is really rising as the doomsdayers say, why are $100,000,000 resort projects being built on the beaches all over the world? The banks are financing them…… Why would they do that if they were in danger????

Why do all the climate change politicians own expensive beach front homes?

Why is that????

Can anyone give a rational answer to this?


Well, construction loans are just 3 years. The commercial loans post-construction are just 5 to 20 years.

Have you ever noticed that a bank will loan you money for a car, despite that car having high risk of damage, and car decreases in value every day…

[Edited on 8-15-2023 by mtgoat666]

[Edited on 8-15-2023 by mtgoat666]

mtgoat666 - 8-15-2023 at 08:21 AM

:thumbup: Youth triumphs over old farts! :thumbup:

Climate Change Was on Trial in Montana
A judge found there was “a fundamental constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/15/climate/climate-change-wa...

The state of Montana has a constitutional obligation to protect its residents from climate change.

That was the stunning ruling from a judge who delivered a landmark decision on Monday. It compels Montana, a major coal and gas producing state, to consider climate change when deciding whether to approve or renew fossil fuel projects.

The state Constitution guarantees residents “the right to a clean and healthful environment.” In a lawsuit, Held v. Montana, 16 young people argued that the government had violated that right by enabling rampant development of fossil fuels, contributing to climate change and polluting the state.


surabi - 8-15-2023 at 10:09 AM

:saint:
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


Apparently science and history only apply to the last couple decades. Talk about context. You are displaying your ignorance “bigly”!


Last couple decades? You are so ignorant.

"On Thursday, June 29, 1826, Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826) recorded his last entry in his weather observation log. This was six days before his death. Jefferson, was a Founding Father of the United States and the country's third president, from 1801 to 1809. He also kept a thorough diary of his meteorological observations.

For more than 50 years, Jefferson actively observed weather to better understand the American climate."


Tioloco - 8-15-2023 at 10:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
:thumbup: Youth triumphs over old farts! :thumbup:

Climate Change Was on Trial in Montana
A judge found there was “a fundamental constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/15/climate/climate-change-wa...

The state of Montana has a constitutional obligation to protect its residents from climate change.

That was the stunning ruling from a judge who delivered a landmark decision on Monday. It compels Montana, a major coal and gas producing state, to consider climate change when deciding whether to approve or renew fossil fuel projects.

The state Constitution guarantees residents “the right to a clean and healthful environment.” In a lawsuit, Held v. Montana, 16 young people argued that the government had violated that right by enabling rampant development of fossil fuels, contributing to climate change and polluting the state.



More Woke nonsense. What do those youth use to power their homes, cars, etc.

More “feel good” garbage.

surabi - 8-15-2023 at 10:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


More Woke nonsense.


The term "woke" specifically refers to being aware of discrimination against others based on their race, gender, nationality, religion, etc.

It has nothing to do with climate change activism, or anything else. But of course the simple-minded don't understand that, and now use it to mean any ideas they deem "liberal". Just like calling gays and trans people "groomers" and "pedophiles", and calling those who care about the good of all rather than just themselves "socialists" and "communists", you love to pervert the meaning of words to use as dog whistles to try to demonize anyone who doesn't think like you.

[Edited on 8-15-2023 by surabi]

pacificobob - 8-15-2023 at 12:19 PM

Jebus tio, I'm embarrassed for you.

Tioloco - 8-15-2023 at 12:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
Jebus tio, I'm embarrassed for you.


Get your feelings hurt much?

surabi - 8-15-2023 at 12:29 PM

These people used to confine themselves to their own communities of like-minded idiots and bigots. Now they shamelessly post their ignorance all over the place and have so little self-awareness, they are incapable of embarrassment and think their views are normal and mainstream.

[Edited on 8-15-2023 by surabi]

Lobsterman - 8-15-2023 at 02:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
These people used to confine themselves to their own communities of like-minded idiots and bigots. Now they shamelessly post their ignorance all over the place and have so little self-awareness, they are incapable of embarrassment and think their views are normal and mainstream.

[Edited on 8-15-2023 by surabi]


I agree 100% if you are talking about the "woke" ones on this board. In the old days people minded their own business. Those were happy times. Today you woke folks mind anyone's business you choose, tell them how you act, and on top of that call them nasty names.

What a miserable life you must all live.

A Denier

SFandH - 8-15-2023 at 03:22 PM



top scientist.jpg - 26kB

pacificobob - 8-15-2023 at 04:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  




BINGO

Here’s what’s happening today.

RFClark - 8-15-2023 at 09:22 PM

It hit 40C east of Kamloops BC around 17:00 This afternoon. I don’t deny the climate is changing. I deny that what you and yours purpose will accomplish anything. The only solution is to start testing weather modification. If you’re not willing to do that you’re not serious about climate change.

Getting people to ride bikes to work won’t cut it.

IMG_3017.jpeg - 139kB IMG_3018.jpeg - 35kB

[Edited on 8-16-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 8-15-2023 at 09:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman  

Today you woke folks mind anyone's business you choose, tell them how you act, and on top of that, call them nasty names.



That's strange. Last time I looked, it was the "non-woke" who want to dictate what books are available to read, who want to dictate whether women can have abortions, who want to prevent other parents from taking their children to a library and listening to someone dressed up in funny clothes reading children's books about being nice to people even if they aren't like you, and who perversly poke their noses into other people's sexual preferences.



Tioloco - 8-16-2023 at 06:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman  

Today you woke folks mind anyone's business you choose, tell them how you act, and on top of that, call them nasty names.



That's strange. Last time I looked, it was the "non-woke" who want to dictate what books are available to read, who want to dictate whether women can have abortions, who want to prevent other parents from taking their children to a library and listening to someone dressed up in funny clothes reading children's books about being nice to people even if they aren't like you, and who perversly poke their noses into other people's sexual preferences.




Surabi-
Very rich. You are a real contortionist. You must be able to smell a different fragrance in the winds than regular folk can.
The only point you have in that paragraph is the abortion deal.
And that is probably one of the few points I can agree with you on. But there are a LOT of conservative people like me that think abortion should be left to personal choice.

The “woke” are in the media manipulating story lines and not reporting on stories that affect their agenda. Talk about removing “books” from shelves.

People dressed in funny clothes at the library talking about treating people nicely sounds great. Unfortunately you are not being honest with yourself in regards to what is actually happening in that scenario.

Your bullcrap is getting deep enough to smother the poor Palm tree.

lewmt - 8-16-2023 at 06:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
:thumbup: Youth triumphs over old farts! :thumbup:

Climate Change Was on Trial in Montana
A judge found there was “a fundamental constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/15/climate/climate-change-wa...

The state of Montana has a constitutional obligation to protect its residents from climate change.

That was the stunning ruling from a judge who delivered a landmark decision on Monday. It compels Montana, a major coal and gas producing state, to consider climate change when deciding whether to approve or renew fossil fuel projects.

The state Constitution guarantees residents “the right to a clean and healthful environment.” In a lawsuit, Held v. Montana, 16 young people argued that the government had violated that right by enabling rampant development of fossil fuels, contributing to climate change and polluting the state.



Yes - youth being funded by a group of climate radicals who argued emotion over law and won by virtue of a shopped judge where the outcome was locked in before the first day of trial.

Surprisingly, Montana is a very red state in every way except it's judiciary which is about 70% radical left. The MT bar gets it's chosen 1's elected very effectively.

Additionally, the previous left wing DA was responsible for enabling a judge trial and not a jury trial....he was a leftist before the red wave was voted in here.

Granted - it's a victory for the climate radicals the state is probably stuck with.

On another note - mean avg temperatures in the UK were abnormally cool in July....here in Montana as well.


20230816_192724.jpg - 66kB

[Edited on 8-17-2023 by lewmt]

elgatoloco - 8-16-2023 at 09:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman  

Today you woke folks mind anyone's business you choose, tell them how you act, and on top of that, call them nasty names.



That's strange. Last time I looked, it was the "non-woke" who want to dictate what books are available to read, who want to dictate whether women can have abortions, who want to prevent other parents from taking their children to a library and listening to someone dressed up in funny clothes reading children's books about being nice to people even if they aren't like you, and who perversly poke their noses into other people's sexual preferences.




TRUE

mtgoat666 - 8-22-2023 at 05:00 PM

Scientists say!!!!!!!

Research finds reducing consumption of just one food item in UK would be like taking 8 million cars off the road: ‘It would make a really big difference’

According to a new study undertaken by an Oxford University professor, if the biggest meat eaters in the United Kingdom were to switch to low-meat diets, the environmental impact would be equivalent to eight million cars being taken off the road.

Professor Peter Scarborough and his research team surveyed 55,000 people with varying diets and analyzed the results in depth, accounting for all the myriad impacts that the production of different foods have on the environment, including land use, water use, water pollution, and loss of species.

Their findings were that meat eaters had the highest environmental impact in every case.

The study found that someone with a high-meat diet accounted for about 22.58 pounds worth of carbon dioxide production per day, while someone with a low-meat diet would account for about 11.84 pounds worth. A vegan would account for about 5.45 pounds on average.

The study’s findings do not say that everyone has to become a vegetarian or vegan in order to save the planet, but rather that simply reducing the mount of meat people eat would be a huge benefit.

”Our results show that if everyone in the UK who is a big meat-eater reduced the amount of meat they ate, it would make a really big difference,” Professor Scarborough told the BBC. “You don’t need to completely eradicate meat from your diet.”

The adverse environmental impacts of the meat industry are not news — a growing body of scientific research has documented how harmful it is. Animal farming contributes a huge amount of planet-warming gases to the atmosphere relative to plant farming, while also using up and also polluting a huge amount of water.

However, another study has found that although people are aware that meat impacts the environment, they are largely under-informed about the extent of the problem. In reality, livestock farming accounts for 14.5% of the heat-trapping gases produced by humans worldwide, reports the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations.

New California drought map

RFClark - 9-7-2023 at 06:55 PM



IMG_4533.jpeg - 223kB

mtgoat666 - 9-7-2023 at 07:10 PM


mtgoat666 - 9-7-2023 at 07:19 PM



Goat, we have a problem!

RFClark - 9-7-2023 at 07:22 PM

Your heroine forgot to put on her pressure suit gloves, not good! She’s also standing in a pile of dead people with her faceplate open. That can’t smell great either.

IMG_4535.jpeg - 286kB

[Edited on 9-8-2023 by RFClark]

mtgoat666 - 9-9-2023 at 12:24 PM

How obesity is harming the planet: Overweight people generate an extra 700 MILLION tons of carbon dioxide a year, US study claims

Obesity Society calculated environmental impact of increased food intake

Overweight people are responsible for 20 per cent more greenhouse gas emissions compared with a lean person

Transporting obese people also causes an excess of carbon dioxide emissions

SFandH - 9-9-2023 at 04:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
How obesity is harming the planet: Overweight people generate an extra 700 MILLION tons of carbon dioxide a year, US study claims

Obesity Society calculated environmental impact of increased food intake

Overweight people are responsible for 20 per cent more greenhouse gas emissions compared with a lean person

Transporting obese people also causes an excess of carbon dioxide emissions


Plus, the sea level rises when they all go swimming at the beach.

It's just not a good thing. ;)

RFClark - 9-10-2023 at 01:16 PM

Goat,

Remember that Mexico is #1 in obesity.

SFandH - 9-10-2023 at 02:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Goat,

Remember that Mexico is #1 in obesity.


Obesity:

The following data show the United States is number 12 with 36.2% and Mexico is number 28 at 28.9%..

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/obesity-adult-p...

Perhaps there are newer data, but I doubt it would significantly differ.

Also, many reports that show worldwide data by country on almost anything depend upon self-reported data. And who knows if all countries define obesity the same way. ????



[Edited on 9-11-2023 by SFandH]

Tioloco - 9-10-2023 at 08:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Goat,

Remember that Mexico is #1 in obesity.


Obesity:

The following data show the United States at number 12 with 36.2% and Mexico at number 28 at 28.9%.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/obesity-adult-p...

Perhaps there are newer data, but I doubt it would significantly differ.

Also, many reports that show worldwide data by country on almost anything depend upon self-reported data. And who knows if all countries define obesity the same way. ????


[Edited on 9-10-2023 by SFandH]


remember folks that live in metal boxes #1 in ...........


As opposed to the guy like you, living in the lap of luxury….

RFClark - 9-10-2023 at 09:31 PM

SF&H,

https://www.forbes.com.mx/9-de-cada-10-mexicanos-tendran-obe...

I saw that chart but then there’s this too.

mtgoat666 - 9-16-2023 at 05:06 PM

This may help sooth my eco-anxiety:

California sues oil giants, saying they downplayed climate change.

The state of California has filed a sweeping climate lawsuit against Exxon Mobil, Shell, BP, ConocoPhillips, and Chevron, as well as the domestic oil industry's biggest lobby, the American Petroleum Institute.

The suit, filed on Friday in San Francisco Superior Court, claims that the companies misled the public for decades about climate change and the dangers of fossil fuels. It demands the companies help fund recovery efforts related to California's extreme weather events, from rising sea levels to drought and wildfires, that have been supercharged by human-caused climate change.

"Oil and gas companies have privately known the truth for decades — that the burning of fossil fuels leads to climate change — but have fed us lies and mistruths to further their record-breaking profits at the expense of our environment. Enough is enough," said Rob Bonta, California's attorney general.


SFandH - 9-16-2023 at 05:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
This may help sooth my eco-anxiety:

California sues oil giants, saying they downplayed climate change.

The state of California has filed a sweeping climate lawsuit against Exxon Mobil, Shell, BP, ConocoPhillips, and Chevron, as well as the domestic oil industry's biggest lobby, the American Petroleum Institute.

The suit, filed on Friday in San Francisco Superior Court, claims that the companies misled the public for decades about climate change and the dangers of fossil fuels. It demands the companies help fund recovery efforts related to California's extreme weather events, from rising sea levels to drought and wildfires, that have been supercharged by human-caused climate change.

"Oil and gas companies have privately known the truth for decades — that the burning of fossil fuels leads to climate change — but have fed us lies and mistruths to further their record-breaking profits at the expense of our environment. Enough is enough," said Rob Bonta, California's attorney general.



:thumbup:

Goat, Drought? Welcome to Tulare Beach

RFClark - 9-16-2023 at 05:44 PM



IMG_4546.jpeg - 50kB

And then there’s this place!

IMG_4506.jpeg - 129kB

I think that the King is a little short.

surabi - 9-16-2023 at 08:39 PM

You trying to make some point, RFClark? Posting photos of flooded areas when someone talks about drought as a result of man-made climate change, or photos of some dry area when someone talks about all the floods is absurd.

RFClark - 9-17-2023 at 08:09 AM

S,

I think that “The King is a little $hort” covers it if you don’t follow the Wizard of Id that might not mean much to you.

IMG_4551.jpeg - 162kB

IMG_4551.jpeg - 131kB

surfhat - 9-17-2023 at 11:18 AM

What is more than obvious is that the term obesity needs to refer to more than body weight.

Obesity of the mind may not, is not, diagnosable, but it sure appears to be rampant among some posters.

If such a thought upsets you, you need to look deep into a mirror.

Wait for it my fellow Baja loving Nomads, the very ones who could use some self reflection will rail against such a proposal of looking inside themselves for much needed clarity that many current and former Nomads who have checked out because of some members mostly political intransigence go unchecked. Off topic never seems to be used as much as it should.

All that being said, I know we all love Baja and its people. Some show this love in their own way. Others not so much, or at all.

While peace, love, and fish tacos is a simple thought that we all can appreciate, I cannot help but hope for more from all the years and decades that some have been on this forum.

Hope springs eternal for all of us Baja lovers to align in some way that eludes us now. We have much n common and so little in opposition in the grand scheme of each of our own relationships with Baja. Peace out.


RFClark - 9-17-2023 at 11:31 AM

Surfhat,

The first step down that road is to stop hating your fellow Nomads because they have opinions and beliefs different than yours.

surabi - 9-17-2023 at 11:42 AM

Hating? Feeling dismayed about how many people have opinions and beliefs which are hell-bent on denying reality and make it clear they care about nothing that doesn't negatively affect them directly has nothing to do with "hating" them.

Tioloco - 9-17-2023 at 11:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Hating? Feeling dismayed about how many people have opinions and beliefs which are hell-bent on denying reality and make it clear they care about nothing that doesn't negatively affect them directly has nothing to do with "hating" them.


surabi- You may have missed the point.

Hope everyone has a great Sunday!

lewmt - 9-18-2023 at 07:22 AM

"Hate speech is inevitably defined by those who hate speech"
Dr. Jordan Peterson

surabi - 9-18-2023 at 07:56 AM

No it isn't. That's an absurd statement. Petersen is just another climate change denier (among his other right wing and misogynistic views) with fancy credentials. He has a degree in psychology, not climate science.
And that quote was made in response to a hate speech bill in Canada that he claimed would make it illegal not to use a person's preferred pronoun, which was false.

surfhat - 9-18-2023 at 10:38 AM

I apologize RF if you found hate in my sentiment. It was not my intention.

I try not to hate anything or anyone. That is a rot that festers dis-ease and disease, and I want nothing of that my life.

My sentimentality for days passed when Nomad was free for the most part from the scourge of politics that we get in our daily lives already means little these days, as some prove all too often.

You came here a few years after I did and at that time, the lid was off and the Nomad some of us knew and appreciated was morphed into some expressing their political leanings.

I am not really surprised and knew some would take offense at my innocent recollections of past times on a mostly political free Nomad. Hateful? ouch.

Thanks for spelling my sign in correctly this time. I have noticed you do that sometimes for posters and it is not accidental. Get your dig in if it makes you feel better. I can take it. So can the others on this forum. It says more about you than anything I can express or have the desire to address.






RFClark - 9-18-2023 at 10:41 AM

Surfhat,

You are not a part of the problem!

mtgoat666 - 9-22-2023 at 04:22 PM

Bill Gates gets real about climate change: Planting trees is ‘complete nonsense’ but the end of the oil and gas era is finally in sight

https://fortune.com/2023/09/22/bill-gates-climate-change-pla...


pacificobob - 9-22-2023 at 07:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Hating? Feeling dismayed about how many people have opinions and beliefs which are hell-bent on denying reality and make it clear they care about nothing that doesn't negatively affect them directly has nothing to do with "hating" them.


surabi- You may have missed the point.

Hope everyone has a great Sunday!


I think she MADE the point

gnukid - 9-22-2023 at 07:22 PM

Surabi, you've made an excellent point ...

RFClark - 9-23-2023 at 11:15 PM

S,

The problem is the “solutions” you beat everyone over the head with won’t solve the problem. In fact, if the US went to “0 emissions” tomorrow it wouldn’t even slow down the rate of change.

The hate however is real you can see it right here in the cheap shots and name calling that is meant to hurt people and their families.

SFandH - 9-24-2023 at 08:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  

In fact, if the US went to “0 emissions” tomorrow it wouldn’t even slow down the rate of change.



"rate of change"? Rate of change of what?

If you mean it wouldn't make any change to the greenhouse effect that CO2 causes, I bet you're wrong. The US produces about 15% of the worldwide CO2 emissions.

"The U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates that in 2019, the United States emitted 5,130 million metric tons of energy-related carbon dioxide, while the global emissions of energy-related carbon dioxide totaled 33,621.5 million metric tons."

5130/33621 = 15.3%

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-much-carbon-dioxide-does-unite...

Also, what's your point? Are you suggesting that we should do nothing to reduce carbon dioxide emissions?


[Edited on 9-24-2023 by SFandH]

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 09:42 AM

RFC fancies himself a climate change scientist, it seems. And while the real scientists usually make predictions, based upon available information, and don't present something as fact that hasn't been proven to be so, RFC apparently is privy to info no one else is, and knows for a fact that nothing we do will make any difference.

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 11:48 AM

Somehow floating around in one's own private pool all day just doesn't come across as a sacrifice.

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 12:15 PM

;D
Quote: Originally posted by surfhat  



The palm tree in the Bay of Concepcion and high tides in Del Mar are irrelative. The polar regions already are suffering. Some of the Pacific islands are suffering.


...I suggest considering more than your selves or your lifestyle as it relates to future generations and the condition of the planet you are leaving them to deal with.








The man-made climate change deniers and the "Yes, the climate is changing but nothing we do can affect that" folks don't care about others who are suffering from climate change now, let alone future generations.

RFClark - 9-24-2023 at 12:17 PM

S,

Engineer, not a Scientist!

It doesn't require a degree to know that a 14% reduction won’t solve the problem. Especially when those responsible for more than 50% of the pollution aren’t even trying to reduce their output and then there’s Methane emissions where the numbers are even worse.

There are an estimated 1.5 Billion cows world wide, about 37 million of which are located in the US or less than 3%.

Top 10 CO2 polluters

However, most of this pollution comes from just a few countries: China, for example, generates around 30% of all global emissions, while the United States is responsible for almost 14%.In the ranking below you can find the 10 countries that produce the most emissions, measured in millions of tons of CO2 in 2019.

China, with more than 10,065 million tons of CO2 released.
United States, with 5,416 million tons of CO2
India, with 2,654 million tons of CO2
Russia, with 1,711 million tons of CO2
Japan, 1,162 million tons of CO2
Germany, 759 million tons of CO2
Iran, 720 million tons of CO2
South Korea, 659 million tons of CO2
Saudi Arabia, 621 million tons of CO2
Indonesia, 615 million tons of CO2

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 12:42 PM

I guess you engineers don't understand the concept that lessening a problem by 14% is preferable to doing nothing. Nor do you seem to understand that the more countries that lead by example, it makes other countries look bad on the world stage, puts pressure on them to follow suit and they will eventually get onboard.
And China's emission levels are due to all the products manufactured for world distribution, not for the Chinese. Their emission levels would go down if the rest if the world stopped buying made in China crap.

SFandH - 9-24-2023 at 12:57 PM

Thanks surabi, I didn't want to make the effort to explain the obvious.

Engineers.......

A mathematician, a scientist, and an engineer were all to be put to death by a guillotine. If the guillotine failed, they would be freed.

The mathematician lies down, and the blade jams - he's freed.
The scientist lies down, and the blade jams - he's freed.
As the engineer approaches the guillotine, he points to the blade and screams, "I see what's wrong!"

Some can't see the forest through the trees.

[Edited on 9-24-2023 by SFandH]

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 01:18 PM

Following the deniers' line of thinking, if your whole house air conditioning system went on the blink, but you could manage to get it working in one room, it wouldn't be worthwhile to do that, because it didn't solve the entire problem.
Or if you had a medical issue that was causing you pain, it wouldn't be worthwhile to lessen the pain by 14%, because you would still have some pain.

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 02:51 PM

:barf::barf:"You guys do nothing outside of your keyboard to actually make a difference in the world."

And you know this exactly how? In fact, it's just another of your beliefs based on nothing but your own prejudice and presumptions. These unsupported beliefs are a handy way of absolving yourself from not giving a damn, or doing anything to mitigate your environmental impact. Just convince yourself that no one else makes an effort- whether that's true or not is immaterial to you. You obviously need to believe it.

Just like homophobes need to convince themselves that gays are groomers and that being attracted to someone of the same sex is unnatural and sick, otherwise they would have no explainable basis for their prejudice.

[Edited on 9-24-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 9-24-2023 by surabi]

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 03:57 PM

I didn't say I was "doing my best". Putting words in other people's mouths doesn't support one's opinions.
I said we do as much as possible, and everyone's ideas about what is possible for them varies, depending on their circumstances.

If I lived in an urban center with good public transportation, I wouldn't have a car, or at least never drive it unless I needed to go out of town. But I live where I need a vehicle. Therefore I am careful to make lists of things I need to buy, so I can drive as little as possible, cramming all my shopping into one trip rather than running out for something every day.

The point, which you refuse to acknowledge, is that doing something is better than doing nothing.

Tioloco - 9-24-2023 at 04:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
I didn't say I was "doing my best". Putting words in other people's mouths doesn't support one's opinions.
I said we do as much as possible, and everyone's ideas about what is possible for them varies, depending on their circumstances.

If I lived in an urban center with good public transportation, I wouldn't have a car, or at least never drive it unless I needed to go out of town. But I live where I need a vehicle. Therefore I am careful to make lists of things I need to buy, so I can drive as little as possible, cramming all my shopping into one trip rather than running out for something every day.

The point, which you refuse to acknowledge, is that doing something is better than doing nothing.


Typical cop out. Yeah, you want to tell others how to live and claim you are doing everything “possible”.

How would you feel if someone forced you to move to a new location and live in a small space and do your shopping, etc on foot?

That would be ok?

Reason I ask is because I know you dont want to change your lifestyle to improve the planet. You make excuses for having a car, riding a plane, etc…..

You are the ultimate hypocrite with control
issues.

lewmt - 9-24-2023 at 05:37 PM

"Mankind has the ability to alter the climate, and in a positive way.

The palm tree in the Bay of Concepcion and high tides in Del Mar are irrelative. The polar regions already are suffering. Some of the Pacific islands are suffering."

Let's say all of you climate change fanatics are correct that CO2 is altering the earth s climate. What evidence do you have that the changes aren't overall positive? NOAA has concluded that the planet is more productive in plant growth than ever before.....why is it necessarily a "catastrophic" change?

You say some of the Pacific islands are suffering....which ones? What suffering -specifically- are they encountering? I've worked 6 months a year, for several years, on a small Pacific atoll where the maximum altitude is 30' and that was man made in WW2. Do you know the evolution of atolls? They rise out of the sea in volcanic eruptions & because of their mass slowly sink back into the seabed with or without CO2. So what specific provable facts do you have that climate change is causing suffering on Pacific Isles?

And please... don't say that hurricanes are more powerful or that specific weather events are your proof. If a "denialist" ever points to specifically cooler weather occurances you scream that specific weather occurances aren't proof of anything.


[Edited on 9-25-2023 by lewmt]

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 06:10 PM

Your very first sentence makes all you have to say after that not worth reading. Labelling people who have different ideas and beliefs and attitudes as "fanatics" is what people who have nothing real to support their point of view do.

Don Pisto - 9-24-2023 at 06:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
"Mankind has the ability to alter the climate, and in a positive way.

The palm tree in the Bay of Concepcion and high tides in Del Mar are irrelative. The polar regions already are suffering. Some of the Pacific islands are suffering."

Let's say all of you climate change fanatics are correct that CO2 is altering the earth s climate. What evidence do you have that the changes aren't overall positive? NOAA has concluded that the planet is more productive in plant growth than ever before.....why is it necessarily a "catastrophic" change?

You say some of the Pacific islands are suffering....which ones? What suffering -specifically- are they encountering? I've worked 6 months a year, for several years, on a small Pacific atoll where the maximum altitude is 30' and that was man made in WW2. Do you know the evolution of atolls? They rise out of the sea in volcanic eruptions & because of their mass slowly sink back into the seabed with or without CO2. So what specific provable facts do you have that climate change is causing suffering on Pacific Isles?

And please... don't say that hurricanes are more powerful or that specific weather events are your proof. If a "denialist" ever points to specifically cooler weather occurances you scream that specific weather occurances aren't proof of anything.


[Edited on 9-25-2023 by lewmt]


lets go back to your "first hand" experience climbing and snowboarding Jackson and Blackfoot glacier, your argument was "see, same as it ever was, even better!" are we to believe atoll lewmt or....NASA?
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/glacier.ph...

RFClark - 9-24-2023 at 06:45 PM

S,

I guess that you don’t understand that to “reduce the problem by 14% in a single stroke would destroy the US economy. That would certainly make some happy.

You totally ignore the Methane problem. Methane is a far more powerful green house gas than is CO2. But then Russia is the largest Methane polluter isn’t it?

A plan for a planet requires a planet full of people to solve the problem not just a single country. That especially true when the major polluters don’t get along with the US.

Don Pisto - 9-24-2023 at 06:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
S,

I guess that you don’t understand that to “reduce the problem by 14% in a single stroke would destroy the US economy. That would certainly make some happy.

You totally ignore the Methane problem. Methane is a far more powerful green house gas than is CO2. But then Russia is the largest Methane polluter isn’t it?

A plan for a planet requires a planet full of people to solve the problem not just a single country. That especially true when the major polluters don’t get along with the US.



do you just sit around in your metal box and make this chit up?


sorry that was harsh.....lets start with russia?


[Edited on 9-25-2023 by Don Pisto]

Methane Polluters

RFClark - 9-24-2023 at 07:08 PM

DP,

Yes, in fact the “bread box has full AC (Solar 95%) The baking bread smells great (solar 100%)!

Here you go. Start with Russia!

IMG_4568.jpeg - 130kB

[Edited on 9-25-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 07:17 PM

Who exactly has advocated eliminating all of the US carbon emissions in a single stroke? Don't be ridiculous. All climate change activism is geared towards transition to alternative energy, as soon as practically possible. And changing people's attitudes and consumption habits.

Start with Russia? Because they produce .74 more methane the the US, which produces far more than many of the other countries on your list put together? You sound like a child. "Johnny ate 5 cookies before dinner and I only ate 4, so he should be the only one who gets in trouble for eating cookies before dinner."

And there is a planet full of people who want a plan for the planet to become healthier. There are climate activists almost everywhere, even in countries that "don't get along with the US". Do you really think people in India don't care that it's been so unprecedently hot in parts of their country that many people died from the heat?

Meaningful change always starts at the grassroots level, not on a global scale. People have much more influence individually in their own communities than on a state or federal or global level. You can't pick up the phone and call the President of the country, but you can call your local town representative and make your voice heard.

Something as simple as municipalities charging for the number of full garbage bags people put out on garbage day leads to more people reducing the amount of overpackaged goods they buy, recycling what can be recycled, and therefore reducing the amount of unrecyclable garbage in the landfill. Improving public transportation on a local level, putting in bike lanes and bike racks leads to less people driving cars.


[Edited on 9-25-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 9-25-2023 by surabi]

lewmt - 9-24-2023 at 07:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Your very first sentence makes all you have to say after that not worth reading. Labelling people who have different ideas and beliefs and attitudes as "fanatics" is what people who have nothing real to support their point of view do.


Well all of your posts on this subject Surabi indicate you are quite a fanatic on the subject. I asked legitimate questions....you just obfuscate and divert. You are a fantaic as is Goat & several others in that you are willing to subjugate your freedoms for a crisis that may not even be a crisis...hence the questions.

[Edited on 9-25-2023 by lewmt]

RFClark - 9-24-2023 at 07:36 PM

S,

Since we only account for 14% how else would you get a 14% reduction prior to 2050?

You think there are people among our enemies who will help?

Russia poisons, shoots and otherwise liquidates “activists”.

China disappears activists and harvests their organs.

India and Canada are currently quarreling over a conveniently dead activist.

Iran beats activists, shoots, protesters and sells the falsely jailed for cash.

[Edited on 9-25-2023 by RFClark]

lewmt - 9-24-2023 at 07:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
"Mankind has the ability to alter the climate, and in a positive way.

The palm tree in the Bay of Concepcion and high tides in Del Mar are irrelative. The polar regions already are suffering. Some of the Pacific islands are suffering."

Let's say all of you climate change fanatics are correct that CO2 is altering the earth s climate. What evidence do you have that the changes aren't overall positive? NOAA has concluded that the planet is more productive in plant growth than ever before.....why is it necessarily a "catastrophic" change?

You say some of the Pacific islands are suffering....which ones? What suffering -


specifically- are they encountering? I've worked 6 months a year, for several years, on a small Pacific atoll where the maximum altitude is 30' and that was man made in WW2. Do you know the evolution of atolls? They rise out of the sea in volcanic eruptions & because of their mass slowly sink back into the seabed with or without CO2. So what specific provable facts do you have that climate change is causing suffering on Pacific Isles?

And please... don't say that hurricanes are more powerful or that specific weather events are your proof. If a "denialist" ever points to specifically cooler weather occurances you scream that specific weather occurances aren't proof of anything.


[Edited on 9-25-2023 by lewmt]


lets go back to your "first hand" experience climbing and snowboarding Jackson and Blackfoot glacier, your argument was "see, same as it ever was, even better!" are we to believe atoll lewmt or....NASA?
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/glacier.ph...


If you are questioning whether my experiences are real...since you don't know me you have no way of knowing whether they are or not. I can't prove them true but i can say honestly that they are. The fact that I have climbed and descended glaciers in GNP doesn't preclude my ability to work on a remote Pacific atoll. Both things are true & accurate.

I'm not sure why climate change fanatics never answer questions directly. They just subvert the questioner & divert the message. That NOAA has models which show shrinking glaciers is fine...they have also published research showing the net plant growth in the world expanding....I doubt there will be anything close to a thoughtful response to this either

[Edited on 9-25-2023 by lewmt]

Don Pisto - 9-24-2023 at 07:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
DP,

Yes, in fact the “bread box has full AC (Solar 95%) The baking bread smells great (solar 100%)!

Here you go. Start with Russia!



[Edited on 9-25-2023 by RFClark]


thats a wonderful graph there RF...methane produced by oil and gas production. doesn't address the bulk from AGRICULTURE and human waste does it??

surabi - 9-24-2023 at 07:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
...in that you are willing to subjugate your freedoms for a crisis that may not even be a crisis.


I don't consider trying to do my part to make the planet a cleaner, more habitable place to be "subjugating my freedoms", regardless of how much of a crisis it is or will be. I've never heard of "freedom to pollute". And how anyone can see photos of acres of plastic floating in the ocean and read about animals dying from their intestines being clogged with human-produced garbage and not think we have a crisis is unbelievable.

If I were a fanatic I'd be one of those people who deface artwork to call attention to climate crisis, which is a terrible and idiotic thing to do, or blowing up the offices of corporate polluters, rather than simply doing my part and encouraging others to do theirs.

Don Pisto - 9-24-2023 at 07:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
"Mankind has the ability to alter the climate, and in a positive way.

The palm tree in the Bay of Concepcion and high tides in Del Mar are irrelative. The polar regions already are suffering. Some of the Pacific islands are suffering."

Let's say all of you climate change fanatics are correct that CO2 is altering the earth s climate. What evidence do you have that the changes aren't overall positive? NOAA has concluded that the planet is more productive in plant growth than ever before.....why is it necessarily a "catastrophic" change?

You say some of the Pacific islands are suffering....which ones? What suffering -


specifically- are they encountering? I've worked 6 months a year, for several years, on a small Pacific atoll where the maximum altitude is 30' and that was man made in WW2. Do you know the evolution of atolls? They rise out of the sea in volcanic eruptions & because of their mass slowly sink back into the seabed with or without CO2. So what specific provable facts do you have that climate change is causing suffering on Pacific Isles?

And please... don't say that hurricanes are more powerful or that specific weather events are your proof. If a "denialist" ever points to specifically cooler weather occurances you scream that specific weather occurances aren't proof of anything.


[Edited on 9-25-2023 by lewmt]


lets go back to your "first hand" experience climbing and snowboarding Jackson and Blackfoot glacier, your argument was "see, same as it ever was, even better!" are we to believe atoll lewmt or....NASA?
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/glacier.ph...


If you are questioning whether my experiences are real...since you don't know me you have no way of knowing whether they are or not. I can't prove them true but i can say honestly that they are. The fact that I have climbed and descended glaciers in GNP doesn't preclude my ability to work on a remote Pacific atoll. Both things are true & accurate.

I'm not sure why climate change fanatics never answer questions directly. They just subvert the questioner & divert the message. That NOAA has models which show shrinking glaciers is fine...they have also published research showing the net plant growth in the world expanding....I doubt there will be anything close to a thoughtful response to this either

[Edited on 9-25-2023 by lewmt]



hmmm...let me think, I gotta go with NOAA and NASA on this one but I don't doubt for a moment you're a hard charging glacier hiker/snowboarder just maybe prone to embellishing a bit...thats my thoughtful response.

RFClark - 9-24-2023 at 08:26 PM

DP,

You mean from the estimated 1.5 billion cows world wide? The US accounts for less than 40 million cows.

Since everyone passes gas 7.3 billion people probably pass more gas than 340 million Americans.

No one knows how much methane termites produce and NASA has only been monitoring methane since about 2006. Lots of organic and inorganic methane released from the oceans. Probably a lot from hog lagoons in India and China as well.

NASA only sees the gross polluters. It’s possible that India or China are the largest polluters or the termites or nature itself with inorganic methane releases.

Complicated issue!

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