Where is that old Baja road, you ask? (repost from 2003) + Leon Grande Chat

Quote: Originally posted by 100X

"Maps, anyone?" If that is an offer, yes please!

Yes, this is begging for a map

If it would be fun for someone to mark some points into a KMZ or GPX file I am happy to plot them on a map.

-- Geoff

New Hwy. on 1962 Gulick Maps

OK, so here we have the four Gulick maps I drew in the new road(s) onto to compare. I did this several years ago, without advanced satellite mapping. Today, maps (like the new Atlas and latest INEGI topos) are near perfect with where the roads are and match up with satellite imagery.









The other areas where Hwy. 1 differs from the old main road, is south of Concepción Bay. The old road to La Paz went through Comondú and the new highway goes through Loreto.

South of La Paz, the new route is a little different as it passes Santiago and Miraflores, to the east. The old road when right through the center of all the towns from Los Barriles to San José del Cabo.

Homer Aschmann created this map to illustrate the changes in the transpeninsular road...

Another change not shown by Homer's map, is south of Punta Prieta. The main route forked right to pass closer to the Pacific as far as Miller's Landing (near El Tomatal). By the late 1950s, the more-inland road via Rosarito was the main road.

The 1955 Auto Club map gives equal status to both choices:



You might notice the mistake in the name Rosarito, and the original name for Punta and Bahía Santa Rosalillita...
Once more people were traveling into Baja, after WWII, in order to prevent confusion with the French copper mine and very large town of Santa Rosalía, The 'other Santa Rosalía was changed to Little Santa Rosalía, or in Spanish, Rosalillita.

This is what happens if you ask DK for a map lol

The Punta Prieta-Santa Rosalillita (then called Santa Rosalia) road was a wagon road put in around 1900 to supply the mines around Punta Prieta, the town. The mines were supplied by sea, because at that time the main north / south route in this area was El Camino Real between San Borja and Calamajue, well to the east. "Hwy 1" did not yet exist.

Hale, traveling south towards Punta Prieta in 1921 saw a well graded "road to nowhere" going north from Punta Prieta. The road terminated abruptly in the middle of the desert. This was probably the initial construction of what we call "Old Highway 1". This is the dirt road that parallels the new paved Highway 1 (1973) just to the west of Parador Punta Prieta.

I took a drive on this section of old highway 1 a couple months ago. The road is actually in pretty good condition, considering it has been abandoned for 50 years.

A couple of pictures: On the second Gulik map from the top, above, this is about at the "L" in Arroyo Leon. These are looking generally west, Mesa el Leoncito and Sierra Columbia in background.


I had hope to go further west towards the Sierra Columbia but I was by myself, and it was pretty hot, and the road got pretty sketchy so turned around. That is a bucket list destination for me but would be better to go with another vehicle in case someone got stuck. very remote area

Old Hwy 1 Sierra Columbia in background



Old Hwy 1 Mesa El Leoncito in background





[Edited on 2-2-2024 by bajaric]

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric

This is what happens if you ask DK for a map lol 100X: This stuff is pretty new to me and I find it very interesting. That the old main road used to go through Comondu amazes me. Has anyone recently endeavored to follow the old road the entire peninsula? What a great trip that would be! [Edited on 12-7-2021 by 100X]

Have you been to Leon Grande, north of Punta Prieta and west of the transpeninsular roads (old and new)? You can see the road on Google Earth... but cannot see much debris at the site, which is odd for such a well-mentioned mine camp. It is on all the maps from 1919-1941.


The 1941 Auto Road Map (heavy black line) shows Leon Grande and Esperanza gold mines, north of Punta Prieta (where the mill was).

Hi Ric,
I wish I was traveling with you to search for Leon Grande!

My map showing Leon Grande has a question mark by it... since I was not there or could detect any surface ruins of a mine.

I did place it where the 1971 Geology map puts it and that seemed to be at the end of the dirt road going northward from the village of Punta Prieta (at the end of the short paved exit from Hwy. 1).



On the 1971 map portion here, I have Punta Prieta at the bottom, Desengaño shown, Yubay at the upper right edge, El Crucero (the junction of the gulf road) and Cerrito Blanco at the top, and Los Cordonices (San Antonio) at the upper left.

The dirt roads of 1971 are there, including where you drove. I have found this map pretty accurate in other areas.

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric

crossed posts. Well, maybe someday amigo. Bear in mind there are two "Leon Grandes", the spring, and the mine, and they may be some distance apart.

Is the spring 'Agua Leon' what you are thinking of? Harald has been playing with its location, I recall?

Maps seem to show it east of Codornices and apears it is south of the auto road... I found no road to it... but just looking casually.

The Goldbaum 1919 map (link on VivaBaja.com) is what Hale had and it shows Agua Leon and Leon Grande... https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agdm/id/3...


1930 Map has a lot of content, some not placed well. However, Agua Leon is also shown west of Yubay, as on other maps:


[Edited on 12-7-2021 by David K]

I'm on it

It's plotting some lines for the road route that really interests me, but here is a map of the Mina and Manantial waypoints being discussed above. Click to enlarge:

Quote: Originally posted by geoffff

Waypoints as Google Earth KMZ: Manantial-waypoints.kmz

Thanks Geoffff...

Let me help a bit by sharing some pages from the book, 'Long Walk to Mulegé' by Howard Hale, published in 1980.

The book is about a walk made in 1921 with his navy buddy ('Dinty') and two burros (Whiskey & Mescal)! They were most interested in the missions during their journey, too.

These fellows had met with David Goldbaum, in Ensenada, who mapped the entire north half of the peninsula just a few years earlier.

I will scan the pages from when they left El Mármol until they arrived at Punta Prieta (pages 52-69), both well-known location today. Many of the other places may only be found of Goldbaum's map... but reading the words may help us place these locations on today's maps or sat images.

I am hoping a Nomad with more energy than I (geoffff?) will plot their trail based on the details here. Remember, they had Goldbaum's map (and so do we: https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agdm/id/3... )

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

what an exciting story! those guys were all over I guess in the early years you needed luck on your side to be a pioneer. I have tried to make sense of their descriptions on Google Earth now I am lost the straight track taking off somewhere towards the end is intriguing I think, I found it.

*Google Earth lacks place names or historic names. Shows the mountains and arroyos exactly, however.

*Old maps with historic names lack accuracy in placement.

** The fun is combining the two (historic place names and accurate locations). I hope geoffff is having some fun!

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.

Remember Hale was writing from memory some 60 years after the fact. His book was published 9 years after the Goldbaum map was published in Towns of Baja California. Apparently he was using the Goldbaum map to try and reconstruct his journey. The Goldbaum map is sometimes distorted, an east west trail can appear to run north south for instance. Trying to figure out his route may be pointless.

Wow, Harald... interesting KMZ map!
So their 'Las Palmas' is what you think is today's 'Las Palmitas just west of Punta Final on the El camino Real? Interesting!


I have been there a couple times, and it is sure tucked into a box canyon... no trail to the west that I could see... and I even hiked beyond the palms looking. Ahhh, but that was eons ago (1999)! LOL



Las Palmitas Oasis (west of Km. 159, today)

I put a lot of thought into this

the first rancho the guys ran into is most likely San Ignacito
Santa Ines is also a possibility
their first camp may have been where the Catavina cave is, not the present community. That makes Rancho Santa Ines a possibility

three numbers were given at this location
15 km to Mision Santa Maria (fits Santa Ines and San Ignacito)
20 km for the first leg of the march (fits Santa Ines, not so much San Ignacito)
10 km for the 2nd leg of the march (might fit both as we don't know where this change of direction happened)

at no point any of the dry lakes are crossed/mentioned (Laguna El Caporal, Laguna El Islote, Laguna Chapala) - that means the guys were traveling east of Laguna Chapala

they did not follow the trail To Mision Santa Maria
they would have found water or seen the Mision - they didn't

going towards Pedregal they would have found water before Laguna Chapala
that water hole has no palm trees and they did not cross Chapala

No idea why they did not find water at San Francisquito ot Arrastras and they obviously did not hit Calamajue (they would have found water - even in a bad year)

the route I chose between Laguna Chapala and Calamajue is an established route - today often used by bike groups
I still have it on my calendar to bring a 4x4 through there
looks doable





[Edited on 12-12-2021 by 4x4abc]

if these guys used the Goldbaum "map" they were definitely effed (David does not like strong words)

several key locations are in the wrong position - all at least a day's walk off
in the old days that could have killed you

around San Borja

Around Las Flores
location way off
whole mountain ranges are miles off, going in the wrong direction
non existing Valleys (LLanos) are placed where mountains are
Arroyos have wrong names and flow in the wrong direction

who was this Goldbaum guy?

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Around Las Flores location way off whole mountain ranges are miles off, going in the wrong direction non existing Valleys (LLanos) are placed where mountains are Arroyos have wrong names and flow in the wrong direction who was this Goldbaum guy?

Goldbaum's map had a major influence
up until 1955 all other map makers copied his mistakes
1956 Gulick is the first accurate map.

the technology for accurate maps has been around for a long time
but since so few traveled the center of Baja, nobody ever cared to used techniques to put locations on their right place on the map

travel on water has been very important for several hundred years
so accurate maps were needed
the tools were available
and they were used by every captain
that is why you have an accurate coastline of Baja on 1700's Jesuit maps
but the interior of Baja was not documented in detail
survey tools allowed the Jesuits to put their missions and other important places on their maps with an accuracy of a few feet

1849 map below

Howard Gulick was one of my 'Baja Heroes'...
He inspired me to draw maps and write road logs. I was fortunate to have met him, just prior to our 1966 drive from Tijuana to the tip. He gave my dad the latest tips on the road, camping places, and short cuts.

Howard Gulick was an engineer for the city of Glendale. Walt Wheelock (La Siesta Press) and Andy Anderson were co-workers there with Howard. Baja was a big deal to all three of them.

My dad was Andy Anderson's dentist and Andy turned my dad onto his getting a Jeep Wagoneer to get to the great fishing places in Baja. Andy was a close friend of Howard Gulick and accompanied him on many of Howard's mapping trips in the 50s and 60s.


A 1959 photo at Las Flores of Howard Gulick.


Andy Anderson in 1958 at the future site of Alfonsina's.

I last visited with Andy in 1976. It was at Andy's home that I met Howard Gulick, in 1966. I was almost 9!

See all of Howard's Baja California photos: https://library.ucsd.edu/dc/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&xf=%7B...

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Andy Anderson in 1958 at the future site of Alfonsina's.

Quote: Originally posted by David K

So true! Everything changes... there is no 'normal' weather or climate, only that which we experience. Man (and animals) simply adapt, move, or die. When I was a kid (1960s), and remember different weather patterns; So, was that normal or is the weather we experience now 'normal'? I think that there is no normal, there only is what it is!

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.

Does the Goldbaum map place Catavina in Catarina's location or does the map actually say Catarina? Is that a v or an r ? Is that an accent mark over the n or is it just a line on the map? The placement of Jaraguay would suggest it says Catavina. I wonder if Goldbaum's mistake came down to misreading an r as a v? It's evident he got the two places confused because the location is surprisingly accurate for Catarina but the placement of Jaraguay is accurate (kinda) for Catavina. [Edited on 12-15-2021 by Lance S.]

See for yourself: https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agdm/id/3...

Santa Catarina and Santa Catarina Landing look correct. Cataviña is a tad north.

Jaraguay is only 11 road miles south of Cataviña, see them both, near the top of the Gulick 1962 map:



[Edited on 12-15-2021 by David K]

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

as I said before - Gulick has the first correct map

Indeed they were!
Every time the road changed direction, Howard would take out his tripod mounted compass, walk several feet away from his Willys Wagon, and take a new reading.
I heard this from Andy Anderson.




The full set of his 1962 maps (Lower California Guidebook 1962-1970 editions) have been connected into one, by our very own 'geoffff':

https://octopup.org/img/media/maps/baja/1967--Lower-Californ...

you haven't seen me in action. Whole family is involved

Reminds me of the straight roadbed, south from La Prosperidad. I suspect a Boleo road there.



Wait a minute... LOL