BajaNomad - Baja Fairy Circles

Baja Fairy Circles

4x4abc - 11-3-2021 at 11:57 PM

the San Borja hiking prep made me revisit the area (Google Earth)

some really cool stuff in the area
among them are mysterious plant-less circles known in other parts of the world as Fairy Circles
no road access

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4x4abc - 11-4-2021 at 12:03 AM

flat earth view

puntos circulares.jpg - 278kB

chuckie - 11-4-2021 at 05:39 AM

Our big prairies are full of circles In our case they are Tepee rings, caused by the occupants throwing garbage and human waste out the Tepee...The waste enriched the soil on a permanent basis. SO: in the spring of the year the grass is greener and is easy to see I usedto fly my Cub over the Praiirie and drop 1 lb bags of flour to make it easier to find the village the rings indicated...

David K - 11-4-2021 at 07:47 AM

Burros like to roll around in a rock-free spot like this as a dirt bath, of sorts. I photographed one we all examined in 2015 on the Pole Line Run...

Skipjack Joe - 11-4-2021 at 07:52 AM

Two observations. The spacing is not random and the 'holes' are of different ages (some are more recent than others).

Fatboy - 11-4-2021 at 09:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Two observations. The spacing is not random and the 'holes' are of different ages (some are more recent than others).

Just wondering, what do you mean "not random"?

Not evenly spaced, sure, but they sure "seem random".

Are you implying there is a pattern to the circles in the picture?

Either way they are interesting....

4x4abc - 11-4-2021 at 10:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Burros like to roll around in a rock-free spot like this as a dirt bath, of sorts. I photographed one we all examined in 2015 on the Pole Line Run...

open spots with powdery ground always invite burros to use them as a "bath"
but the burros are not likely the creators of these Fairy circles

so far I have identified around 100 areas all over Baja with similar features
but the one depicted above is the most prominent
found it because a local rancher had posted a picture in the old version of Google Earth

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BajaBlanca - 11-5-2021 at 06:22 AM

Very interesting. VERY.

4x4abc - 11-5-2021 at 07:37 AM

the sharp minded around you could still get famous - nobody has found a good explanation for fairy circles yet.
Some cool theories are floating around though.

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wilderone - 11-5-2021 at 05:15 PM

You’re right, it does not seem random. I connected the dots, but even a little different, seems a pattern. Maybe a type of geoglyph.

TMW - 11-5-2021 at 05:59 PM

Aliens

Skipjack Joe - 11-5-2021 at 07:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Fatboy

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Two observations. The spacing is not random and the 'holes' are of different ages (some are more recent than others).

Random means scattered randomly. Some circles would be close to others and others not. The distance between circles is totally random. Equal distance between living things means competition. You see that in desert plants. Aggregated or clusters suggest positive interaction, sometimes social interaction. Random means no interaction, positive or negative. That’s for all living natural groupings.

John Harper - 11-6-2021 at 06:29 AM

I saw circles very similar driving south on Hwy 93 through Nevada a couple years ago. Someone told me they were fire ants that made them, so perhaps some species of ant in Baja doing the same. Still, I'm not eve sure the fire ant story is valid. I never really took any time to research it, and should have pulled over to take some photos.

The ones I saw in Nevada were very strange, never seen anything like them until these photos from Baja. I would guess some kind of insect: ant, termite, etc. could be involved.

John

[Edited on 11-6-2021 by John Harper]

Chup - 11-6-2021 at 07:20 AM

aliens.jpeg - 24kB

wilderone - 11-6-2021 at 07:57 AM

There is also an absence of rocks in the circles compared with surrounding terrain. Can only assume this is deliberate. Could be an indigenous habitation site. Would be interesting to explore the area personally - look for ancient yucca cultivation, yucca fire pits, waffle gardens, stone tools, imported shells. Where is this location (miles from ? or GPS).

Sleeping Circles

David K - 11-6-2021 at 08:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone

There is also an absence of rocks in the circles compared with surrounding terrain. Can only assume this is deliberate. Could be an indigenous habitation site. Would be interesting to explore the area personally - look for ancient yucca cultivation, yucca fire pits, waffle gardens, stone tools, imported shells. Where is this location (miles from ? or GPS).

On top of the hill at the mystery walls of Bahía Las Animas (aka 'Lost Mission Santa María Magdalena'):

More at www.vivabaja.com/109

mtgoat666 - 11-6-2021 at 08:47 AM

The things 4x4 posted are not sleeping circles. The things special k posted are sleeping circles.

These cleared grounds are all over socal and baja. The sleeping circles had small rock walls around them, part of the structure. The cleared circles w/o walls or stone concentration around edge were art or religious thing.

The sleeping circles often have artifacts, while The non-sleeping circles rarely have artifacts.

Fairy circles is a term used for circles in grassland, and they have biological cause.

KaceyJ - 11-6-2021 at 10:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

The things 4x4 posted are not sleeping circles. The things special k posted are sleeping circles.

These cleared grounds are all over socal and baja. The sleeping circles had small rock walls around them, part of the structure. The cleared circles w/o walls or stone concentration around edge were art or religious thing.

The sleeping circles often have artifacts, while The non-sleeping circles rarely have artifacts.

Fairy circles is a term used for circles in grassland, and they have biological cause.

One very common source of these circles in Socal is the Harvester Ant. They develop a nest that is active for decades and decades and if left undisturbed , who knows , maybe for hundreds of years .

They establish foraging trails that extend far from the entrance., collect seed from the surrounding area and deposit the debris along with dirt and small pebbles in the area surrounding the nest.

advrider - 11-6-2021 at 10:32 AM

John, the ones you are talking about in Nevada are ant mounds, I've stop and looked at them several times. Pretty much what Kacey J described above.
Goat is right that most sleep circles have small walls around them as a wind break. They still could be from some kind of hut or animal skin structure that the natives used? Maybe because of the more mild weather in Baja they are sleeping circles? Interesting....

4x4abc - 11-6-2021 at 10:45 AM

ranchers call them "puntos circulares sin vegetacion"

here is one that is not too hard to reach
MESA EL CIRIO
28°31'10.33"N, 113°49'23.26"W

John Harper - 11-6-2021 at 11:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by advrider

John, the ones you are talking about in Nevada are ant mounds, I've stop and looked at them several times. Pretty much what Kacey J described above.
Goat is right that most sleep circles have small walls around them as a wind break. They still could be from some kind of hut or animal skin structure that the natives used? Maybe because of the more mild weather in Baja they are sleeping circles? Interesting....

Okay, so ants did cause those circles in NV. There were hundreds of them visible from the road for sure. I could not figure out WTF was going on in that area, it's pretty desolate. Of course, the White River Narrows formations were out of this world as well.

John

[Edited on 11-6-2021 by John Harper]

4x4abc - 11-6-2021 at 11:28 AM

ants an termites have always been part of the theories why there are spots without vegetation
most studies have disproved the underground animal theories though
we still don't know (science)
but you are free to believe whatever you like

Skipjack Joe - 11-6-2021 at 03:57 PM

There are very faint trails to many of the circles. In fact, the entire area containing the circles is riddled with fain trails. At the upper edge of this depression there is a road and there is a faint trail from the road to a circle. There is another smaller one on the left side that leads to a circle.

I think this is a depression that the vaqueros brought their livestock. It’s surrounded by cliffs so there is more control. I don’t know enough about cattle and roundups to explain why the ground got cleared up in some spots.

That’s my theory. Man is somehow involved with these. Man who travels to them and is not precolumbian man. The faint trails everywhere is almost certainly due to domestic animals. The desert just doesn’t support wildlife in that abundance. A sharper map with greater magnification might answer a lot of questions.

[Edited on 11-6-2021 by Skipjack Joe]

John Harper - 11-6-2021 at 04:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

There are very faint trails to many of the circles. In fact, the entire area containing the circles is riddled with fain trails. At the upper edge of this depression there is a road and there is a faint trail from the road to a circle. There is another smaller one on the left side that leads to a circle.

I think this is a depression that the vaqueros brought their livestock. It’s surrounded by cliffs so there is more control. I don’t know enough about cattle and roundups to explain why the ground got cleared up in some spots.

That’s my theory. Man is somehow involved with these. Man who travels to them and is not precolumbian man. The faint trails everywhere is almost certainly due to domestic animals. The desert just doesn’t support wildlife in that abundance. A sharper map with greater magnification might answer a lot of questions.

[Edited on 11-6-2021 by Skipjack Joe]

An interesting hypothesis, nice to see some critical thinkers are still out there. Branding, de-horning, and castration are all done to young cattle. I've participated in a few round ups as a kid, saw it all.

John

[Edited on 11-7-2021 by John Harper]