BajaNomad

Rivian for baja travel?

mtgoat666 - 11-16-2021 at 09:00 PM
Quote:

New York (CNN Business) Rivian, a 12-year-old startup with no revenue, is now the third most valuable carmaker in the world. The electric vehicle maker has been public for all of one week, but its share price has more than doubled in that time, valuing Rivian at more than $140 billion — just ahead of Volkswagen ($139 billion), and in third place behind Toyota ($306 billion) and Tesla ($1 trillion).


Rivian intends to sell an SUV and a pickup.
Could either car make it from San Felipe to Guerrero negro w/o a stop to charge up at one of the numerous charging stations in baja? When towing?

Have to admit the Rivian will be 10X hipper than a Toyota,….



JZ - 11-16-2021 at 09:16 PM

We are trying to close a deal with them now.

Not designed for offroad

edm1 - 11-17-2021 at 06:11 AM


Nice, I like it . . . BUT

I'll have to figure out how to give this Rivian:
1. 8" lift
2. 35" tires
3. Offroad suspension

And make sure the motor has the torque to drive the wheel/tires.






[Edited on 11-17-2021 by edm1]

[Edited on 11-17-2021 by BajaNomad]

Lost Roadie - 11-17-2021 at 07:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by edm1  

Nice, I like it . . . BUT

I'll have to figure out how to give this Rivian:
1. 8" lift
2. 35" tires
3. Offroad suspension

And make sure the motor has the torque to drive the wheel/tires.






[Edited on 11-17-2021 by edm1]



Rivian off road seems to do just fine stock. :D

https://youtu.be/hMR6ctl-nf8


It was also a chase vehicle in Long Way Up adventure from Patagonia to LA.

https://youtu.be/ggu11EJo4L8






[Edited on 11-17-2021 by Lost Roadie]

[Edited on 11-17-2021 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 11-17-2021 at 08:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by edm1  

Nice, I like it . . . BUT

I'll have to figure out how to give this Rivian:
1. 8" lift
2. 35" tires
3. Offroad suspension

And make sure the motor has the torque to drive the wheel/tires.






[Edited on 11-17-2021 by edm1]


Well, the van is designed for use as delivery vehicle and tradesman use. Was never intended for transporting/housing homeless people on unpaved roads.

[Edited on 11-17-2021 by BajaNomad]

edm1 - 11-17-2021 at 09:31 AM

Since I source almost all of my automotive parts through Amazon, and if Amazon gives me a complimentary Rivian delivery van, I would transform it to a Baja 4X4 rig by first upgrading the skateboard battery platform with the most robust Rivian powerhouse, then do the suspension/tires/wheels.

[Edited on 11-17-2021 by edm1]

PaulW - 11-17-2021 at 09:45 AM

Quote:

Rivian intends to sell an SUV and a pickup.
Could either car make it from San Felipe to Guerrero negro w/o a stop to charge up at one of the numerous charging stations in baja? When towing?

Have to admit the Rivian will be 10X hipper than a Toyota,….
[/rquote]
=== ==
Of course, you joke
No fast charge in Baja except for Tesla. Even then who would want to hang around for charging ? The charging station would be a primary target for the bad guys.
EVs are extremely impractical
Maybe a hybrid might work?


[Edited on 11-17-2021 by PaulW]

geoffff - 11-17-2021 at 10:05 AM

Electric gives you fantastic low-end torque for crawling.

StuckSucks - 11-17-2021 at 10:05 AM

A month ago I went to a Rivian event in Venice, CA -- fun to see what's available. The trucks had lots of cool features, but as a life-time truck owner there were some things which would be a deal-killer for me, such as the 54" bed. I was impressed with the skid plate which provides protection to the entire underside of the truck.





David K - 11-17-2021 at 11:00 AM

More like a Subaru Baja, where the four door cabin size outweighs the need for a bed bigger than 4 or 4.5 feet.

mtgoat666 - 11-17-2021 at 12:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
More like a Subaru Baja, where the four door cabin size outweighs the need for a bed bigger than 4 or 4.5 feet.


rivian PU is not as big as a 1/2 ton PU.
size-wise, the rivian PU is like a slightly up-sized ford ranger.


wilderone - 11-17-2021 at 12:55 PM

$69,000 ??!!

JDCanuck - 11-17-2021 at 01:48 PM

One positive on Rivian: Took them 3 days to refund a preorder deposit into my account when we found a better use for it. Great vehicle for sure, but the new much cheaper Ford F-150 might be a better place for the initial Electric Off-road investments.
Especially useful on the Ford is the backup power supply for home or power tool use in emergencies.

[Edited on 11-17-2021 by JDCanuck]

AKgringo - 11-17-2021 at 01:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  
$69,000 ??!!


Does that include a V-8 simulator sound system? I would also appreciate a drive train vibration effect while I am waiting in traffic!

JDCanuck - 11-17-2021 at 02:09 PM

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  

Rivian intends to sell an SUV and a pickup.
Could either car make it from San Felipe to Guerrero negro w/o a stop to charge up at one of the numerous charging stations in baja? When towing?

Have to admit the Rivian will be 10X hipper than a Toyota,….
[/rquote]
=== ==
Of course, you joke
No fast charge in Baja except for Tesla. Even then who would want to hang around for charging ? The charging station would be a primary target for the bad guys.
EVs are extremely impractical
Maybe a hybrid might work?



[Edited on 11-17-2021 by PaulW]


If you have solar power at your home and supply your own charging point, the benefits are obvious. More than a 250 mile round trip? You will need to find some alternate charging sites. With backup power of close to 120 kwh available on the Fords I figure you save a fair bit on additional solar storage batteries as well for your home solar system. I paid a bit over 10G for just under 20 kwh high quality LiFePO4 for my home.

One author's perspective on the Navajo reserve situation, seems a bit familiar:
https://bobby-48881.medium.com/new-ford-f-150-lightning-is-a...

[Edited on 11-18-2021 by JDCanuck]

[Edited on 11-18-2021 by JDCanuck]

edm1 - 11-17-2021 at 02:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  
$69,000 ??!!


Does that include a V-8 simulator sound system? I would also appreciate a drive train vibration effect while I am waiting in traffic!
You'll have to carry a junkyard V8 engine in the bed, just for that purposeful rumble. It'd be cheaper than a 5000w Rivian subwoofer.


[Edited on 11-17-2021 by edm1]

geoffff - 11-17-2021 at 03:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  
$69,000 ??!!
Does that include a V-8 simulator sound system? I would also appreciate a drive train vibration effect while I am waiting in traffic!


You joke, but many electric vehicles these days have fake engine sounds. Usually they go for Jetsons-style space-car sounds -- but I am confident the fake throaty V8-engine sounds they currently have in new gas Mustang and BMWs will make their way over to E-vehicles.

John Harper - 11-17-2021 at 03:27 PM

I put a playing card in my bicycle spokes and now it sounds like my Harley!

John

mtgoat666 - 11-17-2021 at 05:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by geoffff  
Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  
$69,000 ??!!
Does that include a V-8 simulator sound system? I would also appreciate a drive train vibration effect while I am waiting in traffic!


You joke, but many electric vehicles these days have fake engine sounds. Usually they go for Jetsons-style space-car sounds -- but I am confident the fake throaty V8-engine sounds they currently have in new gas Mustang and BMWs will make their way over to E-vehicles.


Faux ICE sounds are for short guys.

One of the best things about an electric car is the absence of ICE noise.

surfhat - 11-18-2021 at 11:04 AM

I watched a youtube video earlier this morning where a Rivian climbed a very narrow rock walled canyon.

It was actually climbing on the walls at times as it made its way up to a flatter spot.

Other than a dedicated rock crawler, I can't imagine many trucks could have done what this pickup did, especially with the size of the tires.

Impressive it was. I don't have the connection to this video, but if one types in Rivian, it should show up.

Tacayo - 11-20-2021 at 08:32 AM

I went for a test ride in a Rivian pick up on Thursday at Sears Point in Sonoma. The performance and smooth ride was incredible. The trucks are being made in a former Mitsubishi factory in Normal, Illinois. Based on my experience they'll sell them as fast as they can make 'em. Nice to see American ingenuity in action.

chippy - 11-20-2021 at 08:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat  
I watched a youtube video earlier this morning where a Rivian climbed a very narrow rock walled canyon.

It was actually climbing on the walls at times as it made its way up to a flatter spot.

Other than a dedicated rock crawler, I can't imagine many trucks could have done what this pickup did, especially with the size of the tires.

Impressive it was. I don't have the connection to this video, but if one types in Rivian, it should show up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yeth5v_5dPM

mtgoat666 - 11-20-2021 at 10:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tacayo  
I went for a test ride in a Rivian pick up on Thursday at Sears Point in Sonoma. The performance and smooth ride was incredible. The trucks are being made in a former Mitsubishi factory in Normal, Illinois. Based on my experience they'll sell them as fast as they can make 'em. Nice to see American ingenuity in action.


You just joined to make first post touting rivian?
Do you work for rivian’ s PR firm?

100X - 11-20-2021 at 11:19 AM

Stock tires!

Tacayo - 11-20-2021 at 12:01 PM

Dear Mtgoat,
Bienvenido to you too, Señor Goat. If you sat in the truck with me on that ride I can guarantee you that it would have knocked your socks off. The Rivian is a great truck that will out perform all those monster grill bad boys.
No, I have no financial stake in the Rivian. I'm also looking forward to trying out the new electric Ford 150 and Tesla's Cybertruck whenever they become available. Right now I'm getting my 2002 Tundra ready for a Baja vacation. My Tundra has been a great truck but I'll trade it in for a new electric truck as soon as I can.
It's a new day. I like to look for the good that's coming down the road.
Not that it should matter but it's not my first post. I've posted using other handles...Kencito, Joaquin etc. I don't post often and then when I finally decide to say something, for whatever reason my old sign in no longer works so I register. If I knew how to post a very short video of the Rivian ride I would but I'm afraid it's beyond my expertise.

StuckSucks - 11-20-2021 at 01:55 PM

Saw my first Rivian R1T in the wild, near LAX.

edm1 - 11-20-2021 at 02:40 PM

I'd like to see a video of Rivian crossing a river.

mtgoat666 - 11-20-2021 at 02:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by edm1  
I'd like to see a video of Rivian crossing a river.


https://youtu.be/MVVU19pVIBA

Don Pisto - 11-20-2021 at 03:08 PM

https://us.yahoo.com/finance/news/ford-rivian-dump-plans-joi...

JDCanuck - 11-20-2021 at 03:51 PM

As the model I am most interested in is only available in the US, may have to wait a bit for my first off road capable EV. Baja has a long way to go to catch up on the supporting infrastructure if you don't have your own charging capabilities. A list of charge stations in or around La Paz would be welcome if anyone has it?
Really beginning to envy those CA residents that can easily buy and bring these down for use in Baja.

StuckSucks - 11-22-2021 at 03:49 PM

I see four charging locations in La Paz with both Tesla and J-1772; the Nissan dealer only has J-1772.

Plaza Paseo La Paz

Nissan Vamsa La Paz

Hotel One La Paz

Puerta Cortes

[Edited on 11-22-2021 by StuckSucks]

JDCanuck - 11-23-2021 at 11:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks  
I see four charging locations in La Paz with both Tesla and J-1772; the Nissan dealer only has J-1772.

Plaza Paseo La Paz

Nissan Vamsa La Paz

Hotel One La Paz

Puerta Cortes

[Edited on 11-22-2021 by StuckSucks]


Thanks for that post, Now you mention it, I do remember the charging station at One LaPaz being totally empty and unused when we stayed there a couple months back. Very convenient and safe place to charge as it's well surrounded with security personnel and in a busy area. Lots of places to shop and eat nearby while you use it. PLaza Paseo should be a great place as well to charge up while you are shopping.

[Edited on 11-23-2021 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 11-23-2021 at 11:52 AM

It appears that 2022 is going to be the year we are inundated with a huge variety of EV's with decent range and a whole lot of practicality for other uses. Almost every manufacturer is planning on producing off road capable EV's to compliment the low road clearance cities only vehicles available til now. Trucks are the big drivers of sales and manufacturing growth here in Canada and I suspect also in the US. I don't think even the flip/flop politicians will be able to stop massive growth in the next few years.

Don Pisto - 11-23-2021 at 12:07 PM

Paul wrote "maybe a hybrid might work?".....Ken Block, Carlos Sainz, and Stephane Peterhansel believe this new Audi RS Q e-tron will! 38 days friends :bounce:

StuckSucks - 11-23-2021 at 12:45 PM

The LA Auto Show just finished, there were plenty of car/truck EVs on show.

David K - 11-23-2021 at 01:10 PM

Just so happens, my favorite camping place is 300 miles (a day's drive) away and is remote (no electricity to plug into overnight).
How does this even work to make an EV SUV at all practical/ possible?

Tacayo - 11-24-2021 at 03:40 PM

David asks a good question about the practicality of EV pick ups due to the paltry recharging options in Baja.
In many parts of Baja it would be challenging or impossible. But a 300 mile one way trip from San Diego to someplace like Shell Island should be possible when the Tesla Cybertruck with an advertised 500 mile range hits the streets.
You could fill up in El Centro and drive the 138 miles to San Felipe.
I'm not sure how much further south Shell Island is but I believe it's close. You could make it back to El Centro with range to spare. Of course if the AC is cranking that affects range as does 75+ mph. But it should be doable.
There is also a "destination charger" at the San Felipe marina hotel. It's for guests only but hotels have negotiated on their use here in the states.
It's not hard to imagine that there will be more and more charging options up and down the peninsula as demand for them accelerates. It should be a lot of fun.

surfhat - 11-25-2021 at 10:58 AM

A couple of years ago The Hotel Sal in GN had a couple of car charging parking spots close to the front check-in office.

Whether they were hooked up or not, they were there. I never saw a vehicle parked there charging up during the couple of days we were there.

Getting an all electric vehicle down that far south might require some trailoring is what came to mind at the time.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

JDCanuck - 11-25-2021 at 04:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat  
A couple of years ago The Hotel Sal in GN had a couple of car charging parking spots close to the front check-in office.

Whether they were hooked up or not, they were there. I never saw a vehicle parked there charging up during the couple of days we were there.

Getting an all electric vehicle down that far south might require some trailoring is what came to mind at the time.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.


It appears doable to drive down the Baja with an EV of 250 mile range, but according to this present map, it would mean taking some detours off hwy 1 and negotiating with the charging point owners on costs. Once in the La Paz area, trips in and out of the city would not be a problem, or trips to Cabo. I would bet once the number of vehicles using the points increases, many more charge points will show up for the commercial benefits to the owners.
Guess this explains why I saw very few EV's in La Paz.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/173224

David K - 11-25-2021 at 04:46 PM

Appreciate the feedback.

However, once I am loaded up after camping in the sun for three or more days, I just want to drive home (6 hours + border wait). Sounds like I would need to pay to stay an extra day in a San Felipe or El Centro hotel, just to "refill" the batteries?? Even if it took a couple of hours to refill them, it would not be popular with the wife and I, needing to get home.

Another issue is I sometimes like to explore and not just sit on the beach all day. That further reduces my ability to get home or even get to a charging station.

The only electric solution I can think of, for us Baja campers & explorers, is a hybrid. When the batteries are low, the gasoline [or diesel/hydrogen/natural gas] motor takes over or recharges the batteries.

mtgoat666 - 11-25-2021 at 05:05 PM

The e-car vendors are crazy. You can only get longer-range battery by paying more. The cheapskate in me always buys budget trim level. I can get a large gas tank in my modest-trim ice truck. No need to buy platinum to get large gas tank.

A car that goes less than 300 miles per fill up does not fit my lifestyle.

TMW - 11-25-2021 at 05:10 PM

Just buy a portable generator and take with you. While you are relaxing in the sun the gen. can charge your truck. Don't forget the fuel for the generator when you go.

David K - 11-25-2021 at 05:22 PM

Last thing I want to hear on a quiet Baja beach is a generator...

Shows how silly the idea is to save the environment, we need to run a gasoline generator or plug into the grid, powered often by fossil fuels!

Anyway, my 2010 4x4 Off Road TRD Tacoma is my last Baja vehicle, being that it won't break down or wear out... Oh what a feeling!

mtgoat666 - 11-25-2021 at 05:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Just buy a portable generator and take with you. While you are relaxing in the sun the gen. can charge your truck. Don't forget the fuel for the generator when you go.


My f150 gets 600+ miles per tank.

David K - 11-25-2021 at 05:40 PM

Gee with talk like that, before you know it, goat will be voting Republican!

JDCanuck - 11-25-2021 at 06:58 PM

Recharge times have come way down from the hours they used to take. A couple more years will make a big difference as batteries and chargers continue to improve. 5 min for gas refill or 10 min at present for highest kw ev chargers. Demand is sure to drive innovation.

Tacayo - 11-25-2021 at 07:35 PM

The El Centro Tesla supercharger doesn't require a hotel stay. Just 30-40 minutes of your time. So you could easily make it to your favorite spot and back home no problem. People usually stop for gas too.

Don Pisto - 11-25-2021 at 07:41 PM

no gas no squeegee?

TMW - 11-25-2021 at 09:15 PM

How far can you go a a 30 minute charge?

How long does it take to charge a Tesla at a charging station?

The NEMA 14-50 charger for Tesla electric cars plugs into a 240 volt wall outlet, similar to the type used by your clothes dryer or other appliances. A standard Tesla charger with a NEMA 14-50 connector will be able to charge your Tesla battery completely in 10 hours (for the Model S) to 10 ½ hours (for the Model X).Nov 5, 2021

On the other hand:
A 120 volt outlet will supply 2 to 3 miles of range per hour charged. If you charge overnight and drive less than 30 to 40 miles per day, this option should meet your typical charging needs.

Better:
The Tesla Supercharger is the fastest charging option when you're away from home, allowing you to charge your car up to 200 miles in 15 minutes. Designed to get you charged and back on the road as quickly as possible, there are 30,000 global Superchargers that are accessible on a 24/7 basis, located on major routes near convenient amenities.

David go for the Supercharger it'll get you home.

[Edited on 11-26-2021 by TMW]

AKgringo - 11-25-2021 at 09:28 PM

TMW, any idea what the typical cost is for 15 minutes on a Tesla supercharger?

TMW - 11-26-2021 at 12:38 AM

If you charge at a Tesla supercharger, the cost is typically about $0.25 per KW if you purchased a Model S or Model X after January 2017. Supercharging is free for cars purchased before, January 2017. The average supercharger cost of $0.25 per KW also applies for Model 3.

How much does it cost to charge a Tesla at a public charging station?

The Tesla Model X costs about $15.29 to fully charge, which comes out to about 4.5 cents per mile. It will cost around $7.65 to charge a Tesla Model 3. Depending on the variant, this is between 3 and 4 cents per mile. If you own a Tesla Model S, you can expect to pay about 3.7 per mile.Nov 4, 2021

John Harper - 11-26-2021 at 05:56 AM

Electric vehicles will evolve as they can fill markets. You certainly could not ride your horse 600 miles in one day, yet the horse was fine for around town errands. How many miles, on average, do most people drive in a day? 20, 30, 50 miles? More than enough for a current electric vehicle.

Those of you needing more range on a daily basis, or for longer excursions, will just have to wait for better battery capacity, or settle for existing technology (ICE and diesel).

Most long distance travels in the past were limited by various factors, including a scarcity of services and paved roads. It's just different factors that need to be addressed, at least roads are paved and most electrical infrastructure is in place or can be upgraded. You couldn't
even drive 70 miles an hour in most of America until the interstate highway system was developed.

John


[Edited on 11-26-2021 by John Harper]

100X - 11-26-2021 at 09:20 AM

Electric cars have been around since well before the ICE.

Fun fact: President McKinley was riding in one when he was shot (an electric ambulance took him to the hospital too).

"The Long Way Up" came out last year with Charlie Boorman and Ewan McGregor riding the first electric Harley Davidsons 13,000 miles from Patagonia to the US (they did transport them part of the way through mainland Mexico because they were worried about being kidnapped). They were chased by a pair of prototype Rivians. It is an interesting watch, and gives a good look at the challenges involved in electric vehicles when the infrastructure is not yet there.

[Edited on 11-26-2021 by 100X]

PaulW - 11-26-2021 at 10:08 AM

The sad thing about the infrastucture is that the non tesla charging stations is they have a history unreliablity and many are defective.

100X - 11-26-2021 at 10:27 AM

Don't recall--just rolled my eyes...

TMW - 11-26-2021 at 01:16 PM

At Harrah's auto museum in Reno there is an electric car built around 1916 that would go over 100 miles. The museum is a fun place to walk thru.

100X - 11-26-2021 at 04:52 PM

400 miles range and can add batteries...

3'+ water crossing capability...

https://youtu.be/RNqwZ6qrqBM

John Harper - 11-26-2021 at 05:41 PM

Like the "slow food" movement, perhaps the allure of "slow travel" will carry us forward. A renaissance of "boutique/unique" motels along a newly "supercharged" Route 66?

John

[Edited on 11-27-2021 by John Harper]

JZ - 11-26-2021 at 06:23 PM

They are pretty cool. It will be interesting to see where they are in about 5 years.

At $70-100K a pop it will be a pretty limited customer base at the beginning.





[Edited on 11-27-2021 by JZ]

JDCanuck - 11-26-2021 at 09:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Like the "slow food" movement, perhaps the allure of "slow travel" will carry us forward. A renaissance of "boutique/unique" motels along a newly "supercharged" Route 66?

John

[Edited on 11-27-2021 by John Harper]


Yes, Baja is a long way behind the rest of the world in making this an attractive alternative. Perhaps it's the commitment to gasoline fueling as an economic source of incomes for so many? Norway is the present leader here, massive numbers of recharging stations to the point that almost 80% of all new cars are EV's, followed by China and the rest of Europe. North America is the real laggard here, as we just hate to give up on what is a source of income for so many involved in the supply and delivery of petroleum products. So we complain about the corporations that are leading the way while the average person continues to pollute to the max. Real advantages of electric drives is traction control, reduced repair costs, reliability and longevity. Now at last we can get all that for less cost than what the manufacturers have been used to passing on to us.

JDCanuck - 11-26-2021 at 09:51 PM

I personally see no problem with driving a vehicle even supplied with nat gas supplied power at less than 50% of the CO2 produced per unit energy, enjoying far fewer repairs and maintenance and recharging costs and being able to keep that vehicle on the road before scrapping far longer. The bonus is 4 wheel computer controlled traction systems that have been developed along the way.
Letourneaux 5 decades ago had 6 wheel electric drive computer controlled diesel generated log loaders that showed the capabilities of a computer driven vehicle in heavy mud and extremely higher load carrying capabilities. The world is just really slow in catching up.

Here are the recent specs in Norway, no wonder they have amassed the largest per capita public retirement fund from the energy redeployment they have accomplished:
https://insideevs.com/news/537973/norway-plugin-car-sales-se...


[Edited on 11-27-2021 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2021 at 08:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Like the "slow food" movement, perhaps the allure of "slow travel" will carry us forward. A renaissance of "boutique/unique" motels along a newly "supercharged" Route 66?

John

[Edited on 11-27-2021 by John Harper]


Yes, Baja is a long way behind the rest of the world in making this an attractive alternative. Perhaps it's the commitment to gasoline fueling as an economic source of incomes for so many? Norway is the present leader here,…


Norway used tax and fee structure to make e-vehicles economically preferable over gasoline/diesel vehicles.

The USA could be a much better place if USA emulated Norway’s socialist policies!

Sadly, most Americans prefer to forego health care and retirement, and have a shorter life expectancy, because ‘freedom.’

JDCanuck - 11-27-2021 at 09:16 AM

I would argue the high rebates in the US (not nearly as high up here in Canada) and the cheaper cost of E-vehicles in the US have combined to make electric vehicles the very cheapest mode of personal transportation for some time now. Those people who believe they have something to lose with the transition continue to oppose what has been the obvious solution for a long time. Chinese and Europeans are just more willing to adapt than the North Americans, and this is what really worries me for the future of our children and grandchildren.

JDCanuck - 11-27-2021 at 09:29 AM

North American Auto Manufacturers are busily and successfully lobbying for more and more complex "public safety" additions to new vehicles as the required dealer servicing of an electric vehicle is almost non-existent. Having a complex array of automatic shutdown vehicles guaranteed to fail at inopportune times will bring the costs of maintenance back up for the manufacturers. At the same time, they can justify keeping costs up with mandatory safety features and delay the transition based on cost of installed parts.

JDCanuck - 11-27-2021 at 09:47 AM

Each time another area of the world develops a far superior and more efficient method of providing a useful product, the lobbyists in the US push for tariffs or regulations so they do not have to transition to more efficiency at the same rates. This has the end result of keeping innovation at arms length and supporting existing inefficient local practices. Costs for the end user go up, and innovation is pushed out to other countries. It's a troubling and self defeating practise for the future viability of North American innovation. We have seen this in lumber, energy, computer chips, steel, aluminum and the list goes on and on.

100X - 11-27-2021 at 10:44 AM

Unions and regulations likely figure into the calculation too. Are lobbyists on all sides.

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2021 at 10:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
Each time another area of the world develops a far superior and more efficient method of providing a useful product, the lobbyists in the US push for tariffs or regulations so they do not have to transition to more efficiency at the same rates.


In all countries the lobbyists for labor and industry will fight to keep their jobs and market share.

Increased “efficiency” usually means killing jobs, and increased income inequality.

JDCanuck - 11-27-2021 at 12:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  


Increased “efficiency” usually means killing jobs, and increased income inequality.


While that seems to always be the immediate response, I think history shows efficiency means less work for the same output, allowing for reduced working hours for the same standard of living, along with reduced energy use to provide the same. Farriers are now a rarity, replaced by mechanics engineers and wealth managers, it takes minutes rather than hours or days to obtain supplies, travel to and from school and hospitals and even prepare food.

In 1919 we were convinced we could never manage to feed the then existing global population of 1.7 billion and there would need to be a winnowing of races to do so (eugenics was born on this surety). Now at close to 5 times that population we manage to waste 40% of global food production because the demand is not sufficient to provide the profits we want.

[Edited on 11-27-2021 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 11-27-2021 at 12:56 PM

"In all countries the lobbyists for labor and industry will fight to keep their jobs and market share."

And for this reason we should be very wary of any government funded and supported primarily by those two most powerful drivers of the eventual decisions that government will be making. Politicians know how to feed those two sources to maintain their power, while giving the general populace the excuses they will accept.

100X - 11-27-2021 at 01:10 PM

JDCanuck, I could not agree more with your last statement. It becomes hard, then, for all of us I suspect, to decide if to embrace large government (regardless of who is perceived to be in charge) or to work to limit it.

Electric vehicles, at least for a while, are "the future." But they will have their issues too, especially over the long term and if they are supposed to be adopted by all of humanity.

After electric, the next better thing? Keep an eye on the lobbyists!

JDCanuck - 11-27-2021 at 03:29 PM

I think it's pretty easy to see in history that the more freedom individuals had to improve and innovate outside of government regulatory restraints, the faster the nations that promoted that advanced both as individuals and as a nation. I don't think Intel, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Google or Tesla would have done anywhere near as well under other more regulated regimes.
This makes it even more interesting that now many of those who benefited so greatly by open innovation now would like the rest of us to be constrained by limits imposed upon others. Musk seems to be the only one presently opposed to much bigger government approaching those that fell behind in the past.

JDCanuck - 11-27-2021 at 03:38 PM

Ahhh, I see the campaign against Musk as a "Far Right Extremist" has already begun.
https://thenextweb.com/news/elon-musk-completes-his-transiti...

unbob - 12-16-2021 at 10:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks  
A month ago I went to a Rivian event in Venice, CA -- I was impressed with the skid plate which provides protection to the entire underside of the truck.


Skid plate is a must to protect the battery! Off-road damage to battery could result in explosion and/or fire. Major hazard driving off-road with EV.

JDCanuck - 12-16-2021 at 01:21 PM

We are going to see a lot of off-road EV's produced this year. Will take a while to determine which ones will handle the roughest terrain best. I have always liked Rivian for the extra thought they put into making a very practical truck and SUV. Big advantage to electric drive is the ability to locate weight and batteries for maximized rollover resistance, storage space and control traction more responsively to all 4 drive wheels.

mtgoat666 - 12-16-2021 at 04:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
We are going to see a lot of off-road EV's produced this year. Will take a while to determine which ones will handle the roughest terrain best. I have always liked Rivian for the extra thought they put into making a very practical truck and SUV. Big advantage to electric drive is the ability to locate weight and batteries for maximized rollover resistance, storage space and control traction more responsively to all 4 drive wheels.


no new electric 4x4 will ever be as bad-a$$ as this 50-year-old e-vehicle:




gotta love big government science and engineering!

StuckSucks - 12-17-2021 at 10:12 AM

Last weekend I went to a Rivian R1T test-drive event at an airport outside LA where I got to drive the truck, both high-speed on-runway, also an off-road track. Typical of the EV beast, the truck was torquey, super-responsive, very fun to drive.

The off-road track had some water ruts, plus some fairly steep grades which were hard-packed. All in, the truck performed flawlessly, stuck to the ground.

The truck's regen braking is adjustable -- mine was set to aggressive. When I let off the accelerator pedal, it was almost like applying the brakes, kind of unusual, but something I could definitely grow to appreciate. It's also nice to know that when I let off the "gas," the truck is actually producing a little electricity for the truck to use later, not just wearing down brake pads/shoes.

As everyone has already discussed, the charging infrastructure in Baja will make it challenging for EVs, but not so much in more developed parts of the world.

Let the squabbling continue ...

PaulW - 12-17-2021 at 11:34 AM

Rivian for Baja travel?
Only on the big cities. There are no EVs sold for rural use like Baja. Such a vehicle will be possible someday after very fast charging stations are a closer together as every few miles.

Continue with your academic discussion that that has no answer.

Such a machine is not applicable outside an urban environment when charge at home every night is possible.

BTW, I considered a small EV for daily driving in San Felipe, but It would have to be trailered to get it there. Once there plug in at home and pray it would have no repairs or mechanical difficulties. Not low cost to purchase.

JDCanuck - 12-17-2021 at 12:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Rivian for Baja travel?
Only on the big cities. There are no EVs sold for rural use like Baja. Such a vehicle will be possible someday after very fast charging stations are a closer together as every few miles.

Continue with your academic discussion that that has no answer.

Such a machine is not applicable outside an urban environment when charge at home every night is possible.

BTW, I considered a small EV for daily driving in San Felipe, but It would have to be trailered to get it there. Once there plug in at home and pray it would have no repairs or mechanical difficulties. Not low cost to purchase.


We live about 50 miles out of La Paz on a very rough road, and both the Rivian and Ford EV trucks give about 300 mile range in lowest priced formats. Several charge points at convenient locations in La Paz where we often shop. Seems doable to me even if we didn't have solar excess at our home to charge at excess solar times of day.

I'm mostly interested tho in plugging in an F-150 Lightning (120kwh) or similar as an external battery storage if we have several days of cloudy weather. For that purpose alone, it's extremely well priced.

Don Pisto - 1-4-2022 at 11:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Rivian for Baja travel?
Only on the big cities. There are no EVs sold for rural use like Baja. Such a vehicle will be possible someday after very fast charging stations are a closer together as every few miles.

Continue with your academic discussion that that has no answer.

Such a machine is not applicable outside an urban environment when charge at home every night is possible.

BTW, I considered a small EV for daily driving in San Felipe, but It would have to be trailered to get it there. Once there plug in at home and pray it would have no repairs or mechanical difficulties. Not low cost to purchase.


Audi is showing the way in Dakar with their series hybrids, some bad luck has taken em out of contention but these first year cars are the real deal. how about FOUR american bikes in the top ten!:bounce:

mtgoat666 - 1-4-2022 at 01:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Rivian for Baja travel?
Only on the big cities. There are no EVs sold for rural use like Baja. Such a vehicle will be possible someday after very fast charging stations are a closer together as every few miles.

Continue with your academic discussion that that has no answer.

Such a machine is not applicable outside an urban environment when charge at home every night is possible.

BTW, I considered a small EV for daily driving in San Felipe, but It would have to be trailered to get it there. Once there plug in at home and pray it would have no repairs or mechanical difficulties. Not low cost to purchase.


Audi is showing the way in Dakar with their series hybrids, some bad luck has taken em out of contention but these first year cars are the real deal. how about FOUR american bikes in the top ten!:bounce:


It seems i could have beaten the audi team driving my stock f150 or even my bicycle :lol::lol:

100X - 1-4-2022 at 02:06 PM

Yeah, Audi off to a bad start. Have some real quality drivers though.

Good job US! Too bad about some big navigation challenges. Hopefully they can make up for them.

Are some very good Mexican riders--would be nice to be able follow a couple of them too!

Don Pisto - 1-4-2022 at 03:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Rivian for Baja travel?
Only on the big cities. There are no EVs sold for rural use like Baja. Such a vehicle will be possible someday after very fast charging stations are a closer together as every few miles.

Continue with your academic discussion that that has no answer.

Such a machine is not applicable outside an urban environment when charge at home every night is possible.

BTW, I considered a small EV for daily driving in San Felipe, but It would have to be trailered to get it there. Once there plug in at home and pray it would have no repairs or mechanical difficulties. Not low cost to purchase.


Audi is showing the way in Dakar with their series hybrids, some bad luck has taken em out of contention but these first year cars are the real deal. how about FOUR american bikes in the top ten!:bounce:


It seems i could have beaten the audi team driving my stock f150 or even my bicycle :lol::lol:


Audi put their e-tron on the top step of the podium, do that with your stock f150....or your bicycle :rolleyes: