BajaNomad - What's involved to run (not race) the Baja 1000?

What's involved to run (not race) the Baja 1000?

JZ - 11-18-2021 at 07:35 PM

Been talking to a Mexican friend who has done it twice in a Beatle.

Thinking about doing it on a bike. My 2 sons, 2 really good riders. One is a very good friend. I might give it a go for a leg.

My main MX friend in Loreto would pull a chase crew together.

Ride a small race or two first.

Could we pull this off in 2023? What all would be involved and the concerns?

[Edited on 11-19-2021 by JZ]

amigobaja - 11-18-2021 at 08:58 PM

Dinero

4x4abc - 11-18-2021 at 09:20 PM

mucho dinero

JZ - 11-18-2021 at 09:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

mucho dinero

How much is mucho?

We aren't talking about racing a trophy truck. I have two high performance KTMs and at least 2 capable chase trucks.

100X - 11-18-2021 at 09:56 PM

JZ, I assume you mean during the race, not afterwards (course is very torn up after the race). To pre-run it prior to the race would be a great option too.

Peninsula run or northern loop race? Answer to that has a huge impact on what is involved. I don't know if 2023 is a peninsula run. Last one was 2017, which is the biggest stretch I can remember. More typical is every 2-3 years.

Assuming you are talking about entering the race as a bucket list-type item, you could enter the sportsman class and just enjoy it. I say enjoy, but this does involve a lot of night time, a lot of dust, and likely being passed by several trophy trucks and cars.

To do it this way, you would need a well prepped bike, which you could likely do yourself. Most important items are suspension and lights. On top of that you would need to sign up for a pit service like Baja Pits, to pour fuel every 50-60 miles. Add to that the entry fees, trackers, etc. and you are good to go.

If you have the bike and prep it yourself, rough guess $10K for the race itself (pre-running and chase expenses, hotels, etc. additional).

Of course you will want to pre-run as many times as you can squeeze in and have logistics, spares, rider changes, etc. all worked out.

If a peninsula run, will likely need more than one chase vehicle. This is actually the most dangerous role in the race, especially if trying to man it with one chase.

If you want more info U2U me and can discuss in more detail.

David K - 11-18-2021 at 10:07 PM

Sportsman's Classes are a lower budget way to be in the races.

advrider - 11-18-2021 at 10:19 PM

I will say this. Years ago I bought an XR650 with the idea of running the 1000 on it ( ironman ), I'm a pretty good rider, not a champ but ok. While in Baja playing around while the TT'S were pre-running I had several close calls that made me realize I would rather spectate or run a cage.
These guys weren't running race speed and a couple that passed me in the day light were enough to take a hard pass. I'm not usually the guy to back down from anything, Usually a die trying kind of guy, not so much on this one.
If you want to do it, I'll help with pitting. Prep your bikes and pay for some pit service and go for it. Doing a team effort would be a better idea and I'm sure 100x can give some good advice.

4x4abc - 11-18-2021 at 10:28 PM

I would start with reading all the rules and regulations
then find someone to translate them for you

then you sign up and do it

Don Pisto - 11-18-2021 at 10:34 PM

start with pie plating some district races.....

BajaTed - 11-19-2021 at 09:21 AM

You either pick a year they are going to Cabo or you do the loop???

JZ - 11-19-2021 at 09:52 AM

Peninsula run, not the loop.

4x4abc - 11-19-2021 at 11:11 AM

the course is published
run it
fast
run it at night
if you can average 30 mph, you have a chance to finish a race
run it many times

run it at night with someone kicking up dust for 50 miles in front of you
see if you can handle the hallucinations when your headlight illuminate only dust for a couple of hours

hang out at the pits/check points (also at night) and experience the boredom (between racers) and craze (when someone pulls in) - you don't want to miss those life saving points during the race

advrider - 11-19-2021 at 12:43 PM

The dust is a game changer for sure. A few years back a couple guys in our group ran out of gas running single track to Catavina and we ended up ridding several hours in the dark. I was shocked at how disorientating the dust and sand particles were to ride in. We were seeing things that weren't there and not seeing stuff that was. Really hard to ride fast in let alone a race speed.
Harold is right about the hallucinations, I was starting to think someone put something in my coffee is was so crazy. I've ridden in dust but the sand/silt dust is super reflective!

BajaTed - 11-19-2021 at 01:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ

Peninsula run, not the loop.

The peninsula run gets you separated from the highway to the race course in some places the width of Baja.
Always keep extra fuel for the chase vehicle to go that distance and back.

We got the radio call once from the weatherman to bring the "clutch package" (code for take engine out of prerunner and come fix us).

Suggest using key CODE words that are pre-defined to the team to describe something complicated that is needed. Using the weatherman for relaying messages was easier doing this. Radio's don't always work good, gotta KISS that part.

TMW - 11-19-2021 at 01:11 PM

A real problem for a bike rider is when they get caught by the cars. Night not so much as you can see the headlights coming. At some point the cars and bikes get mixed together unless you are really fast.

I suggest you have a serious talk with someone like Tim Morton. He preps bikes for people who wants to race SCORE races as well as work with them during the race. He can tell you the ins and outs plus what it cost.

Talking about hallucinations one of our riders was seeing dragons chasing him thru Mikes Sky ranch. He would gas the bike to throw rocks at it every time he turned to look behind. It must have worked because the dragons never caught him.

bajatrailrider - 11-20-2021 at 08:30 AM

Can only tell you this JZ bad Idea as riding the any Baja race course sucks . Just no fun endless woops talc powder 3 foot deep with rocks hidden. Come ride the good stuff with us just big smiles and fun . As I dont think you know what your getting into to ride race track

100X - 11-20-2021 at 11:57 AM

Funny, all the "down sides" seem to be the draw for some...

JZ, a planned ride to Cabo from say Santo Tomas or Rancho Santa Veronica with your kids and a chase crew over 6-8 days would be a wonderful option. This would give an idea of the logistics and planning involved, the trails would be in much better shape, and you could choose if you wanted to run parts at night. Also nice to get used to 200-300 miles in one sitting.

Other options that are easier (logistically) include Malcolm Smith's springtime "6 Days of Baja" (used to be called that; not sure now) that would be really fun, supports charity, and you would get to meet some truly great people. Are also tour companies that put on full peninsula trips. Can't go wrong with any of these--all logistics, accommodations, fuel, meals, etc. taken care of for you. Might be a good first step to decide if the 1000 is right for you.

However, depending on you and your kids, maybe its the 1000...

David K - 11-20-2021 at 04:58 PM

If the idea is to use nearly all dirt road to La Paz is not too impossible.

Start at Rancho Santa Veronica (near Tecate/ El Hongo) and head south. Use some of or Parallel Hwy. 3 via Santa Catarina village area (east of Independencia). Drop into Valle de la Trinidad on the 'Goat Trail' (pre-Hwy. 3 dirt road).

At Valle de la Trinidad you could head to the Pacific near San Vicente and go south or go through Simpson's or Mike's Sky Rancho, to Camalu on the coast.

Past San Quintín, go east then south, around El Rosario, using one of two choices used by Score then head towards Santa Catarina/ Punta Canoas, and down the Seven Sisters coast roads to Punta Rosarito. Bump into Hwy. 1 to just past El Tomatal and go to the old main road, unless you need a break and fuel stop, go then to Villa Jesus María.

At Villa Jesus María, head to El Arco on the original Baja 1000 race course and old main road to La Paz, then south to Vizcaino and San Ignacio.

Then you go south past San Ignacio Lagoon or via El Patrocinio to San Juanico. Just beyond, go east to La Purisima and work over to Loreto or San Javier, then back to the Pacific at Santo Domingo, Magdalena Bay, Punta Conejo, La Paz.

Very minimal pavement.

Lost Roadie - 11-20-2021 at 06:46 PM

JZ, I pre-ran the 1000 in 2012 solo on my Husaberg in 3 days, usually riding 16-18 hours then camped along the course. I'm not very fast, with no support team not getting hurt was more important.
Made it to La Paz, stayed one day and rode north to pit with Loco's Moco's near the center of the peninsula.
I can highly recommend just pre running first if you don't care about the competition. Much less stress and cost, still had trophy trucks and others passing me day and night with all the silt bed fun. I was just racing against myself and it was a blast without the costs and increased danger.

advrider - 11-20-2021 at 08:14 PM

Maybe try a NORRA race first, more family fun and time to be had. I've been thinking about racing the NORRA race myself or as the Roadie said just prerun it.

100X - 11-20-2021 at 09:46 PM

David K and Roadie you are bringing back fond memories!

My first real Baja motorcycle trip we actually rode right across the US/Mexico border at Jacumba and all the way to Cabo. All Honda XR's, no chasers and only one pair of shorts, one t-shirt and flops in a small bag taped to the handlebars.

Three of us went. The fourth rider, the only one that had done anything like this before, backed out the night before! All we had was one AAA map and a handheld compass. "Hey, if we just keep heading south, we have to get there, right?" What a trip! So many great memories!

JZ, something like David K and Roadie are suggesting would be as rewarding as any Baja 1000, and I have done those too.

rts551 - 11-21-2021 at 08:24 AM

Do the NORRA race first. It is good prep for the Baja 1000 which is harder. Unless you have a lot of friends that can pit you, plan on $10k for the 1000, and even then it will cost you a little more. This year we had 3 teams from the area that made it on quads. One from Guerrero Negro made it Ironman....now that really has ghosts chasing you.

4x4abc - 11-21-2021 at 10:41 AM

this Class 11 Beetle came in last yesterday

https://www.facebook.com/dirtsunrise

pacificobob - 11-21-2021 at 11:42 AM

Love class 11!

100X - 11-21-2021 at 12:25 PM

The true heroes of Baja!

David K - 11-21-2021 at 01:10 PM

My wife also loves Class 11... What fun!

bajatrailrider - 11-22-2021 at 12:40 AM

I wonder if any here rode the course recently as I ride weekly. In just this year alone it is very difficult to ride. Also David when is last time you drove all dirt to la paz? there are locked gates everywhere much pavement riding . I think JZ give the San Vicente 200 a shot first

4x4abc - 11-22-2021 at 01:42 AM

I started recording gates a few years back
some of the good trails are gone

in the south pretty much all the good stuff is gone

4x4abc - 11-22-2021 at 02:00 AM

especially along the MEX1 most dirt roads are now off limits
ranchers used to be happy to see visitors
the occasional slow 4x4 was OK

with the arrival UTVs that has completely changed
ranchers explicitly told me so
bikes blasting through ranches were mentioned too

[Edited on 11-22-2021 by 4x4abc]

pacificobob - 11-22-2021 at 07:06 AM

A throughly understandable and predictable response from the ranchers to
Entitled and rude tourists who feel baja only exists as a consequence free playground for their entertainment.

mtgoat666 - 11-22-2021 at 07:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

especially along the MEX1 most dirt roads are now off limits
ranchers used to be happy to see visitors
the occasional slow 4x4 was OK

with the arrival UTVs that has completely changed
ranchers explicitly told me so
bikes blasting through ranches were mentioned too

Knuckle dragging off-roaders ruined land access.

Same old story, repeated the world over.

AKgringo - 11-22-2021 at 07:44 AM

There are a couple of nice ranch roads that I have used the last couple of trips SOB, that are gated, but not locked. One of them is signed with "shut the door" (in English), but not keep out or other closed signs.

Forgive me for not mentioning where they are, or providing tracks, I would like to keep them open!

I drive conservatively, and the few times I have encountered vaqueros have been friendly encounters.

[Edited on 11-22-2021 by AKgringo]

100X - 11-22-2021 at 10:00 AM

It used to be that there were plenty of gates to keep livestock in place. You would ride up, open the gate, ride through, and close the gate behind you. Never an issue.

Last time I got a good ride in down here (I sadly say) was in 2014, with my 2 daughters. We did a week of riding between San Ignacio and Loreto and saw few gates. The ranchos we stopped by were very welcoming, making sure we tried their prized citrus, etc.

As this year was the 54th running of the Baja 1000, racing here has gone on longer than the vast majority of Nomads have even known of the place. The opinion that off roading has all of a sudden ruined it, I feel, is misplaced.

Today, if I saw a gate and it didn't specifically prohibit entry, I would open it, ride through it, and close it behind me. I would ride conservatively if around a rancho, livestock, vaqueros, or any other sign of civilization. If I was truly in the middle of nowhere and I saw someone I would at a minimum slow to about 10 MPH and wave, but would more likely stop and talk to them, even with my broken Spanish.

Of course, I'm also the guy that has asked federates to show me their guns, let me see if they really have bullets in them, and the like, and can tell you that if approached with a smile and a positive attitude, pretty much every person you meet can become a great memory.

I saw a few vaqueros on course during this pre-run. I slowed to about 10 MPH, waved, got smiles and waves in return, proceeded slowly for a couple hundred yards, and resumed my pace.

Sure, there are off roaders that I wish would leave Baja alone, but the vast majority are very nice, considerate people that probably even get the best views and experiences on the peninsula. To paint them all the same is to paint all gringos the same or all caucasians the same or all Mexicans the same or all [fill in the blank, whatever you just so happen to be] the same.

Many people who now love Baja and even call it their home may not know how much off roading contributed to their enjoyment of the peninsula. Whether they realize it or not, many would not have even dared venture down here their first time if it were not for off roading (or fishing, but that is more about the water and often involves an airplane and little inland experience).

Off roading, for better or for worse, had a huge part in opening the peninsula up. Going back to the 60's it was the first reason for many gringos to come to a place that few came to. They had a great and safe time in a magical land and the reports went north. Their kids felt safe coming down. The adventurous of their friends and neighbors felt safe coming down. Off roaders were maybe the largest group of Baja pioneers and "paved" the way for many to follow, as well as economic improvement for the peninsula, which then encouraged even those less adventurous to come down.

Even if there are a few inconsiderate off roaders, try approaching the next one you see with a smile and a positive attitude and see if your opinion doesn't start to change.

TacoFeliz - 11-22-2021 at 10:07 AM

Thank you 100x. Very well said.

100X - 11-22-2021 at 10:07 AM

One only need to run north of Loreto along the beach to see what has happened to access in Baja over the last couple decades. Everything fenced off, even where there is noting there. Very hard to find any beach access, where it used to be wide open.

(Not due to off roaders, by the way.)

4x4abc - 11-22-2021 at 10:50 AM

Baja is seen widely as a playground with few restrictions
the way the US desert used to be
tearing it up is on many visitor's mind (not all, of course)

the folks making money with exploiting Baja are using exactly that for their advertising
it seems to appeal

names carry a message
"Rip to the Tip"
"Rip to Cabo"
"Desert Assassins"
"Tearing up Baja"

donating a few bucks to a Baja orphanage does not make things better
hiring David Kier to show some rock art only softens the Rip for TV

100X - 11-22-2021 at 11:03 AM

Luckily Cameron has grown up since the early Rip to the Tip days (Ox passed away on one of those trips).

Now he does "Trail of Missions."

There is a lot more going on than a few bucks to a charity.

David K - 11-22-2021 at 12:10 PM

Harald, should I say no if asked to take people to places, even when I want to? How about you? You actually have an off-road touring business. Of my hundreds of trips, and a dozen taking a group, only twice was it for a tv show and was paid for my time.

Nothing destroys roads and terrain like Mother Nature and her flash floods. You can stop all off road driving but the next hurricane will still waste the countryside and not just along the roads.

4x4abc - 11-22-2021 at 12:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Harald, should I say no if asked to take people to places, even when I want to? How about you? You actually have an off-road touring business. Of my hundreds of trips, and a dozen taking a group, only twice was it for a tv show and was paid for my time.

Nothing destroys roads and terrain like Mother Nature and her flash floods. You can stop all off road driving but the next hurricane will still waste the countryside and not just along the roads.

nothing wrong if someone pays for your expertise and knowledge
it is hard to say no
I have done my share of TV - declined the majority though, because I did not like the way they wanted to portray backcountry travel
they never had a problem finding someone else

floods destroy water crossings and a few parts of ranch roads
easily fixed
the races destroy the entire length of ranch roads
that takes a bulldozer for a day or two
yes, there is compensation paid by SCORE for that
only it is rarely used to improve ranchers lives
the money never goes where it was intended to
no wonder the ranchers still block roads on race day
the people who live off the country and with it are not happy
they are peeed
the spectators from the Baja cities don't make things better
trash everywhere
a lot
at least locals have started to put up signs reminding spectators not to litter
around my house is has reduced trash by 50%
good!
I live right next to the race track
I'll be picking up trash for the next week
I still really don't appreciate that spectators chit right at my front gate

trash.jpg - 326kB

100X - 11-22-2021 at 01:52 PM

Personally have never seen an upset rancher of vaquero.

Almost all spectators are locals.

It is their land/country, culture, decision ultimately, and the support for racing, especially down south, seems pretty unanimous. I choose to go with the flow, respectfully. Otherwise I would go try to impose my will where it might be better received.

David K - 11-22-2021 at 02:30 PM

I guess I am confused as we were on a topic that was not about racing, but riding/ driving the Score 1000 course (or some other route down the peninsula).

I do agree with you Harald, that 300 racers, on all kinds of rides, pre-running and racing, do a serious number on the backcountry roads.

I do agree with 100X about the trash left by spectators... They are LOCALS not foreigners who leave bottles, cans, diapers, etc. as if some magic genie will clan up after they leave.

It is a tradition (apparently) taught by watching others or their parents... It will take time to learn the simple trash truth: If you can bring it in FULL, you can easily take it away EMPTY!

My son and I were watching the Baja 500 in 2003, near Independencia, the area was deserted when we arrived but was well-lined with local vehicles when the racers arrived. The beautiful high desert was a sea of empty beer bottles by the end of the race at that location. Chris and I collected as much trash as we had room for... Even doing so before all of the locals left... Hoping for a teaching moment, maybe? :light:

[Edited on 11-22-2021 by David K]

bajatrailrider - 11-23-2021 at 12:21 AM

Score and record racing destroy every road do not repair them . When road gets so bad they cannot race it they go to the next one. So the ranchos dont want to hear it anymore locked gates. Then the rip to tip Idiots destroy every trail they can find. GPS is the next problem . Im a lifetime off roader it is turning into So Cal down here. Im Lucky i have keys to locked gated ranchos I surly will not post or give gps tracks. HAHA or even use gps. Up at El Coyotes the only roads left not destroyed by score .Are behind locked gates thats the facts guys .

4x4abc - 11-23-2021 at 08:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The beautiful high desert was a sea of empty beer bottles by the end of the race at that location. Chris and I collected as much trash as we had room for... Even doing so before all of the locals left... Hoping for a teaching moment, maybe?

[Edited on 11-22-2021 by David K]

no teaching moment at all
it only reinforces the locals' view of you
that you are a not a real man
men don't do trash

the first time I had a conversation with locals about trash was in 1986
Puerto Agua Verde
a horse race
men would stand togethere
women would stand together
the men were drinking beer
a lot
empty cans would just fall out of their hands to the floor

my girlfriend and I cleaned up the mess
someone drunk enough dared to tell me what an idiot without balls I was
it is the women's job to clean up
not necessarily the same day
a real man would never engage in that kind of stuff

similar exchanges happened over the following 35 years
and now that Mexican women are more emancipated, they don't do trash anymore
things got worse

if one intended to change behavior, it would need a role model to demonstrate not littering
someone famous in a tele novela for example
or some famous singer
like when every girl stated showing their underwear once Madona did so

you and I don't have that kind of influence

David K - 11-23-2021 at 09:02 AM

:light:

bajatrailrider - 11-23-2021 at 09:12 AM

I had same thing happed on beach years ago watch race with My Mex amigos. Even my close friend half gringo there eating and throwing trash and cans on beach. I waited till there pile of trash grew. I told them not cool your country throw trash . The half gringo said but we are Mexican! So i started to pick up there trash in front of them. Putting it in back of my truck they did in fact start to help me. It did make a difference as now 20 years later. When we go out i bring trash bag . They do not throw trash out since Im the elder

mtgoat666 - 11-23-2021 at 09:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

Score and record racing destroy every road do not repair them . When road gets so bad they cannot race it they go to the next one. So the ranchos dont want to hear it anymore locked gates. Then the rip to tip Idiots destroy every trail they can find. GPS is the next problem . Im a lifetime off roader it is turning into So Cal down here. Im Lucky i have keys to locked gated ranchos I surly will not post or give gps tracks. HAHA or even use gps. Up at El Coyotes the only roads left not destroyed by score .Are behind locked gates thats the facts guys .

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Fat knuckledraggers in utvs, atvs, tacomas, raptors, etc.

Would be a better world if these fat a$$es$ would get over their infantile infatuation with going fast and making dust clouds, and would find a better outdoor hobby like kayaking, hiking, kiting, mtn biking, horse riding, etc.
they would be fitter, live longer, and not spoil the world for the rest of us.

The participants were given a chance to behave responsibly on public lands and the participants blew it. I am all for banning all offroad vehicle use from public lands.

100X - 11-23-2021 at 10:26 AM

Again, spectators are almost unanimously locals.

Probably close to half of SCORE racers are now Mexican.

There are many Mexican organizations putting on many races in the same locations as SCORE, so the roads would be bad even without those from the north.

As stated, I am not here to tell the wonderful people of Baja how they should act in their own land. I will go forward respectfully but do not feel it my place to preach to those whose culture and land we are privileged enough to share.

They could get tired of all our condescending, controlling, superior, entitled opinions and preaching and kick all of us out, not just whatever few perceived knuckle-draggers actually exist.

Yes, the roads get torn up. The fish also get depleted. Hard to find Chocolates. The beaches get blocked. Old trails are not allowed to return to nature because we keep looking for them. Greater tips become expected. Land and housing prices go up. Eco tours overrun small communities like Comondu. Who among us is not to blame for something...?

David K - 11-23-2021 at 11:24 AM

Nothing stays the same... everything changes... except some people, who are the slowest to change.

Baja, because of its bad roads or no roads, has been slow to change and many of us experienced decades of that solitude.

The Baja 1000 originally used the main road from Ensenada to La Paz, except between San Ignacio and the La Purísima area.

New routes began to be used in 1972 to avoid pavement or construction zones. No 1000 in 1974 because of a change in race promoters. In 1975, a loop 1000 was created and used the Seven Sisters roads for the first time.

In 1979, the 1000 again ran to La Paz and would do so every few years thereafter. In the 1990s, Trophy Trucks were born and now boast 1000 horsepower. The only good part is they are going to all-wheel-drive which is far friendlier to dirt roads than rear-wheel-drive and spinning ruts!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for people's impact on Baja:

In 1973, Hwy. 1 was completed.
In 1978, Hwy. 3 was completed (then called BC #16).
In the 1980s, roads were graded that had required a 4WD.
In 2020, Hwy. 5 was completed.

Bad roads brought GOOD people...
Good roads bring ALL kinds of people!

dravnx - 11-23-2021 at 12:24 PM

Have you considered the NORRA Mexican 1000? I've crewed for a few bikes. Very do-able and not too expensive. Fun crowd, racers, crews and organizers.

eastmeetswest - 11-23-2021 at 04:48 PM

Finally. Back on track for a couple of posts. With a few friends we are thinking of doing NORRA this year. I would love to hear tips and feedback about a group of friends doing NORRA?

100X - 11-23-2021 at 06:15 PM

Don't know anything about it.

If you want to get back to talking about the Baja 1000, my comments are above...

100X - 11-23-2021 at 06:20 PM

That was probably too snarky...sorry.

advrider - 11-23-2021 at 10:16 PM

I call bullchit on you GOAT! I have been doing a lot of hiking the last couple of years in prep for my PCT hike next year. I find a huge amount of trash and toilet paper that your tree huggers leave behind, I either burn it or pack it out.
I'm talking 20 plus miles into the back country so it's not day hikers. I have done the same thing on offroad trails, trash, TP and burnt chit in fire pits. Offer still stands, my fat ass will take you on any hike you want to show you what you don't know!

I agree on the NORRA idea as well, hell I'll help for free with whatever is needed.

[Edited on 11-24-2021 by advrider]

4x4abc - 11-24-2021 at 02:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 100X

Personally have never seen an upset rancher of vaquero.

Almost all spectators are locals.

It is their land/country, culture, decision ultimately, and the support for racing, especially down south, seems pretty unanimous. I choose to go with the flow, respectfully. Otherwise I would go try to impose my will where it might be better received.

plenty of upset ranchers
https://www.elsudcaliforniano.com.mx/local/municipios/piden-...

bad road.jpeg - 88kB

John Harper - 11-24-2021 at 06:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by advrider

I call bullchit on you GOAT! I have been doing a lot of hiking the last couple of years in prep for my PCT hike next year. I find a huge amount of trash and toilet paper that your tree huggers leave behind, I either burn it or pack it out.
I'm talking 20 plus miles into the back country so it's not day hikers. I have done the same thing on offroad trails, trash, TP and burnt chit in fire pits. Offer still stands, my fat ass will take you on any hike you want to show you what you don't know!

I agree on the NORRA idea as well, hell I'll help for free with whatever is needed.

There's been a massive influx of kooks in to the backcountry the last couple of years. No one could travel, so they trashed the local backcountry. Take a look at what happened up in the San Bernardino Mountains and the issues with off roaders. There's just too many disrespectful and selfish people today!!!

Trailheads were closed, but people went anyway and just crapped in the fire rings and threw trash everywhere. No education at all about "Leave No Trace" practices or principles. I always make it a point to pick up trash when I've been out to MSR in Baja (sad!), as well as on my backpacking and camping trips to the Sierra and Wyoming.

John

mtgoat666 - 11-24-2021 at 07:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by advrider

You can try to call bullchit, but you are in fact full of bullchit.. Littering is a problem everywhere, but litterbugs are more prevalent in Mexico on a per capita basis.

100X - 11-24-2021 at 02:26 PM

https://youtu.be/nthvQbuU1xQ

John Harper - 11-24-2021 at 05:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Trailheads were closed, but people went anyway and just crapped in the fire rings and threw trash everywhere.

Crapped in the fire rings? Why?

The trailhead restrooms were closed as well.

John

advrider - 11-25-2021 at 09:41 AM

100x, thanks for posting the video, very cool.