BajaNomad - If you encountered a snow storm coming down the mountain from Picacho del Diablo

If you encountered a snow storm coming down the mountain from Picacho del Diablo

JZ - 12-14-2021 at 11:18 PM

How would you handle it differently from these folks?

Maderita - 12-15-2021 at 04:33 AM

If you encountered a snow storm coming down the mountain from Picacho del Diablo

Don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows that Baja is a desert and it never snows!

But if by some miracle it did snow, then I would probably drive at night during the blizzard to have the freshest, untracked snow. Most likely I would leave it in 2WD, engage the rear locking diff and drive fast. That's the best way to power slide all the curves for 25 miles.

Oh, coming down the mountain? That's different (and not as fun). Would plan for an afternoon descent when the temperature has melted the ice or softened the snow. Engage the 4WD for engine braking to all wheels. Use low range, downshift, and stay off the brakes to maintain steering control. Install the chains if it's very icy.

When using a single set on a 4x4, there may be some debate about whether to put the chains on front or rear. Going downhill, I'd prefer the chains on the rear wheels, especially with a rear locking diff. Better to sacrifice a bit of steering control than have the rear trying to swap ends with the front of the vehicle.

Cañón del Tajo

Bringing much needed alfalfa to the hungry horses.

Rancho El Topo

Sierra de Juárez, view from Laguna Salada desert.

4x4abc - 12-15-2021 at 09:31 AM

one of my most popular web sites (during winter) is about chains and where to put them.

http://www.rubicon-trail.com/jeep101/chains.html

DSCN0017 new chains copy.jpg - 214kB

100X - 12-15-2021 at 10:34 AM

Wow, much more slippery than it looks. First choice is chains, but not many of these folks seem to have them! Second choice, wait until conditions improve. If can't do that, drive very slow and be careful with brakes trying not to lock up the wheels and lose steering. Might at least try putting one set of tires in the plowed snow at the edge of the road.

One of the most fun MC rides I ever had was trying to catch my brother-in-law (expert rider from Utah) in the snow at Laguna Hanson. I figured he knew what he was doing so mimicked his approach. He fell right in front of me and I had to lay my bike down not to hit him. We were both sliding through the snow at about 50 and all the spray off him was just piling on me! We still talk about it all these years later.

[Edited on 12-15-2021 by 100X]

Maderita - 12-15-2021 at 12:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

one of my most popular web sites (during winter) is about chains and where to put them.

http://www.rubicon-trail.com/jeep101/chains.html

4x4abc,
Good points Harald, and concisely written.

4x4abc - 12-15-2021 at 01:24 PM

I have been part of 2 epic mountain climbs with 4x4 in the winter.
Mount Washington and Vatnajokull in Iceland

early 1990's - long time ago

http://www.4x4abc.com/Carlos_adventures/Mount_Washington.htm...

Maderita - 12-16-2021 at 04:57 PM

Snow in the SPM National Park this week.

JZ - 12-16-2021 at 05:37 PM

Wow. Beautiful.

4x4abc - 12-16-2021 at 07:33 PM

back to the original question

"If you encountered a snow storm coming down the mountain from Picacho del Diablo"

in Baja you likely did not carry chains
so, that option is out

to maintain braking and especially steering you should substantially air down
I would do 8psi - 10 at the most

like in the video, downhill sections are your biggest concern
the guys with locked up brakes lost their ability to steer - they slammed into the pileup
the ones who were able to stay off the brakes (not easy to do) turned left or right at the bottom

so, same technique on the Picacho road
go as slow as you can downhill (use low gears in manual or automatic)
STAY OFF the brakes should you encounter a little sliding!
be gentle on your steering
a full lock to one side could get you in trouble

even if you are not religious - pray!

mtgoat666 - 12-16-2021 at 07:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

back to the original question

"If you encountered a snow storm coming down the mountain from Picacho del Diablo"

in Baja you likely did not carry chains
so, that option is out

to maintain braking and especially steering you should substantially air down
I would do 8psi - 10 at the most

like in the video, downhill sections are your biggest concern
the guys with locked up brakes lost their ability to steer - they slammed into the pileup
the ones who were able to stay off the brakes (not easy to do) turned left or right at the bottom

so, same technique on the Picacho road
go as slow as you can downhill (use low gears in manual or automatic)
STAY OFF the brakes should you encounter a little sliding!
be gentle on your steering
a full lock to one side could get you in trouble

even if you are not religious - pray!

The SPM road has steep grades where going off road edge is certain drop of hundreds of feet or more (you will die), and the guard rails are flimsy pieces of chit, you don’t want to drive down (or up) on ice…
I would wait it out and drive down when conditions have improved.

Maderita - 12-16-2021 at 10:18 PM

In the late 1970s, I planned a backcountry skiing trip to the Sierra San Pedro Mártir as a series of cold winter storms passed through. The snow level was not far above the Meling Ranch on the (then) dirt road.

With chains on all four tires, my Land Cruiser FJ40 steadily crawled up the untracked snow. As we climbed toward the upper plateau, the snow became increasingly deeper. At the same time, the carbureted 6 cylinder engine was losing power due to the effects of elevation.

After a 10 minute stop to advance the timing at the distributor and change jets on the aftermarket Holley carb, we were again making forward progress. This time, pushing snow with the front bumper. We made it to the plateau, where we enjoyed a few days of skiing the waist-deep soft snow.

Driving down the mountain, my two amigos on skis were towed behind with an old climbing rope. We encountered a short, weathered vaquero riding a burro up the mountain. He had never seen skis, apparently not even a photo of skis. Smiling in amazement, he called them, "los zapatos grandes".

4x4abc - 12-16-2021 at 11:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

I had considered waiting for my list

but you might run out of food and water before the snow melts or a grader shows up

Baja is a living example of what many of you dream of
a place with less government
enjoy!

JDCanuck - 12-17-2021 at 02:36 AM

Never owned a 4 wheel drive, just front wheel drive and drove over an icy pass to/from work 20 years and never lost control or didn't make it to work. Usually, because I started work early, drove over the pass just before it was closed to all traffic. This is what I noticed: 80% - 100% of the passenger vehicles in ditches were 4wd (overly confident perhaps?), the rest would be semis, most with chains. It was far less common to see a front wheel drive in the ditch. Biggest improvements over the years on my vehicles were: electronic traction control (huge difference) and Michelin X-Ice radials and with these two it was much harder to break traction going up wet snow/icy hills. Steering remained pretty constant but in really deep wet snow uphill to ski hills you eventually came to a full stop.
Prior to X-Ice radials the most common passenger winter tire up in Icy Canada winters were studded M/S Michelin radials, especially useful on rear wheel drive cars and trucks. Logging truck drivers kept speeds up around 65-75 mph(or more) on ice roads to prevent sliding down the icy banked curves.

JDCanuck - 12-17-2021 at 02:59 AM

Another thing i noticed on several occasions in both rear and front drive cars that started sliding when slowing on an icy hill where you had to stop was throwing the transmission in neutral from drive worked far better and never failed to stop much faster, even with modern abs. Looking at that video makes me wonder how many of those vehicles had rear wheels driving while the front wheels were sliding.

AKgringo - 12-17-2021 at 09:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck

throwing the transmission in neutral from drive worked far better and never failed to stop much faster

Good advice, especially if your engine is still cold and stuck on a fast idle speed!

I had an old Suburban (carbureted) with a locking rear end that would want to push me through a traffic light unless I took it out of gear. I also kept it out of four-wheel drive unless I needed the extra traction, and that was almost never when going downhill.

[Edited on 12-17-2021 by AKgringo]

100X - 12-17-2021 at 10:03 AM

Especially with an automatic, an up/downshift could cause tires to break traction on a slippery surface. Neutral is an interesting suggestion for the downhills.

4x4abc - 12-18-2021 at 12:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

to maintain braking and especially steering you should substantially air down

I've seen differing opinions about that with most leaning towards not airing down for winter conditions (i.e. snow & ice is not soft sand).

AKGringo, you're the winter driving guy here, what's your thought on that?

snow is exactly like sand - you sink in - that creates more resistance
airing down for ice works
less torque per sq inch of tread = less chance of tires breaking lose

I was part of an expedition on a glacier in Iceland
we aired down to 2 psi
those guys live with snow and ice

TMW - 12-18-2021 at 02:32 PM

I hit an icy snow patch going up a mtn and it stopped me. No chains so I aired down and went on up. Airing down does work.

mtgoat666 - 12-18-2021 at 06:03 PM

The subject was ice downhill. Letting air out of tires does not do much good when on sheet of ice going down hill.
Maybe a ripper attachment for trailer hitch :light:

4x4abc - 12-18-2021 at 10:41 PM

old husband tales are hard to kill

BajaMama - 12-19-2021 at 11:03 AM

We do snow runs in the winter - we always air down. We try to stay off the ice, though.

JDCanuck - 12-19-2021 at 10:44 PM

I would think if you want to stop on warm glare ice as that appeared to be letting air out might not be helpful if it changes the road patch of the sipes (tiny suction slices) which were designed for the modern much softer winter passenger tires which prove superior in warm weather sudden snowfalls. I too was reluctant to try them but really did find this modern very low tread multiple sipe tire works far better on wet ice and new snow up to 8 inches deep. This is what we commonly get here as opposed to further north where we got cold old ice that has no water floating on the surface. But as the title indicated, very doubtful anyone would be running modern winter tires in that area, more likely they had all terrain tires.

[Edited on 12-20-2021 by JDCanuck]

4x4abc - 12-20-2021 at 12:50 AM

"modern winter tires" - Hakkapeliitta is the best - also means you mount and run them for snow conditions.
You change back to summer tires when the snow is gone.
Winter tires do not work well on dry roads.

not many can afford the luxury of 2 sets of tires

JDCanuck - 12-20-2021 at 05:37 AM

Will definitely be a change in thinking when in the Baja for me. Priority will be a hard rubber puncture resistant AT tire that lasts as long as possible and at lowest replacement cost I think. I won't miss the -40 degree breakdowns on remote roads and have started packing a large container of water rather than blankets and winter clothing. Any other suggestions for Baja off highway emergency supplies?

JDCanuck - 12-20-2021 at 06:58 AM

Hi Harald: Any suggestions also on a good cheap durable tire with soft sand and mud road treads and strong sidewalls to resist slicing by rocks? Bias ply maybe? Rain driving and noise on pavement would not be issues that would have a high priority.
Vehicle would be a lightweight fwd SUV (Mazda Tribute or Saturn Vue) both 2.2 l 4 cyl. Yes, Grand Cherokees are far more durable and also multi-purpose, but fuel costs are the killer in the calculation.

4x4abc - 12-20-2021 at 08:53 AM

bias ply tires are indeed stronger in the sidewall
however, they don't air down well
the strong sidewall keeps them very rigid

a long time BFG fan, I also like General Tire
sidewall protections?
they all promise it - haven't found any that deliver
sidewall damage is also more of a driver issue

tread punctures are from sharp objects on pavement and high speed on dirt roads
airing down on dirt roads completely eliminates tread punctures (1/3rd rule)
you can keep the dirt road pressure on pavement - provided you don't go faster than 60km/h and no more than 100km distance.

Baja requires a lot of airing up and down - I sometimes do it a couple of times a day
that requires a good air compressor
good means durable and fast
plug in compressors are not good

1/3rd rule
start with your normal pressure
do the chalk line test to determine "normal"
let's say it is 30 psi
for long fast highway drives air UP 1/3 = 40 psi
for dirt roads air down 1/3 (from 30) = 20 psi
for mud sand and snow air down another 1/3 = 10 psi
emergency, 1/2 of the last pressure = 5 psi

David K - 12-20-2021 at 09:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

bias ply tires are indeed stronger in the sidewall
however, they don't air down well
the strong sidewall keeps them very rigid

a long time BFG fan, I also like General Tire
sidewall protections?
they all promise it - haven't found any that deliver
sidewall damage is also more of a driver issue

tread punctures are from sharp objects on pavement and high speed on dirt roads
airing down on dirt roads completely eliminates tread punctures (1/3rd rule)
you can keep the dirt road pressure on pavement - provided you don't go faster than 60km/h and no more than 100km distance.

Baja requires a lot of airing up and down - I sometimes do it a couple of times a day
that requires a good air compressor
good means durable and fast
plug in compressors are not good

1/3rd rule
start with your normal pressure
do the chalk line test to determine "normal"
let's say it is 30 psi
for long fast highway drives air UP 1/3 = 40 psi
for dirt roads air down 1/3 (from 30) = 20 psi
for mud sand and snow air down another 1/3 = 10 psi
emergency, 1/2 of the last pressure = 5 psi

Good post!
The ADDING air above the recommended tire pressure for highway driving is new (to me)?? On highway drives, the heat adds to the air pressure, already (~5 psi)

For anyone interested in the 'Chalk Test' (used to determine ideal street pressure), I posted my photos and findings about 9 years ago on Tacoma World: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/chalk-test-dynapro-atm-a...

JDCanuck - 12-20-2021 at 09:16 AM

Thanks Harald, that's a whole lot of adjusting air pressure. As we both know the distances and road I will be travelling 95% of the time, I think best for me is to keep the 30 psi except if I really need extra traction for the mud and sand conditions when i get trapped on the way home. This is entirely new thinking for me.

[Edited on 12-20-2021 by JDCanuck]

4x4abc - 12-20-2021 at 09:17 AM

tire chalk test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0qL20nBNRI

a tip:
don't paint a large area of you tire for that test
a single chalk line across the tread will do
no need to drive around the block
4 or 5 tire revolutions will do

Screen Shot 2021-12-20 at 9.15.29 AM copy.jpg - 94kB

Screen Shot 2021-12-20 at 9.15.29 AM copy.jpg - 94kB

100X - 12-20-2021 at 09:27 AM

What to carry/setup:

I am also a fan of the BFG's. Tires may be the most important item to get the best you can for Baja.

Of the plug-in air compressors, Viair is by far the best. Check out their offerings if you do not have a better option.

Add a good spare and a plug kit for until you get back to town (my last remove plug and patch after a puncture in Loreto cost 75 pesos). A good jack and a pad for under it also important.

Tow strap, tow hooks front and back and first aid kit, tp, and I would keep at least one of those blankets just in case.

GAIA or similar so you can navigate off line. Ask Harald or others for tracks if you are going somewhere you are not familiar with (will load onto GAIA, etc.).

Garmin inreach is a good option but a little pricey.

On airing down, very good information above. Note that as you air down, although this protects the tread, it also makes the sidewall more vulnerable. Harald is correct this is a driver issue so must take care of the sidewalls when aired down. Also consider wheel size as this can impact the sidewall's profile.

John Harper - 12-20-2021 at 09:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 100X

What to carry/setup:

Of the plug-in air compressors, Viair is by far the best. Check out their offerings if you do not have a better option.

My Viair 85P has been a workhorse for many years now. I like the screw on connector over the clamp type, especially if your valve stem is flexible, like on many passenger cars.

John

AKgringo - 12-20-2021 at 10:23 AM

This thread has turned into a valuable source of information! I hesitated to reply earlier, because the variables in driving in snow country are so great, that what works well in one section of a road, could get you in trouble around the next bend.

In short, Harald knows what he is talking about! I also "air up" for long drives since I usually run lower than recommended psi for my daily driving. I am off road for at least part of most days, and airing up and down is a pain, so I will accept the decrease in mileage and tire life for the improved traction and ride softening.

My experience driving on ice and snow is considerable, since during all of my five years at Tahoe, and thirty plus in Anchorage, I was involved in ski area management. "Is this trip necessary?" is the first question anyone should ask their self when the roads are bad, but is not an option when avalanche control, or digging out he lifts has to begin before the road is plowed!

I may add more later, but guests are coming, and my preparation for them is way behind!

4x4abc - 12-20-2021 at 11:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

I may add more later, but guests are coming, and my preparation for them is way behind!

My question is whether airing down would be helpful for the conditions depicted in the videeo JZ posted.

I drive a fair amount in snow country (Eastern Washington), run good all-season tires year-round at "official" pressure, and it hadn't ever occurred to me to air down; then again I've never gotten my Subaru stuck enough in the cold to even merit breaking out the shovel, so maybe I'm not a very good test case.

[Edited on 12-20-2021 by lencho]

airing down would have helped in JZ's video
but that's academic - who airs down in city traffic at the top of a hill?

the main driving skill on a slippery downhill is STAY OFF THE BRAKES!
the drivers that did were able to steer at the bottom
the others slipped into the pile

David K - 12-20-2021 at 11:55 AM

My Toyota has DAC (downhill assist control) that allows you to let the ABS and sensors control the speed to a slow crawl... no touching the brakes or gas... just steer.

4x4abc - 12-20-2021 at 12:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

My Toyota has DAC (downhill assist control) that allows you to let the ABS and sensors control the speed to a slow crawl... no touching the brakes or gas... just steer.

don't you have to be on low range for that?

David K - 12-20-2021 at 06:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Quote: Originally posted by David K

My Toyota has DAC (downhill assist control) that allows you to let the ABS and sensors control the speed to a slow crawl... no touching the brakes or gas... just steer.

don't you have to be on low range for that?

As you should be for engine compression braking, especially without DAC!

David K - 12-21-2021 at 10:54 AM

No, I have not used it on ice (I hate cold places).
I used it on very steep, uneven (rutted), loose-rocky surfaces.
The point is it does NOT lock the brakes... it pulses them so your truck will not drift sideways.

JDCanuck - 12-21-2021 at 03:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Speaking of that video, I didn't see indications of ABS pumping the brakes on those vehicles sliding down with their wheels locked up. Maybe it doesn't work if all 4 wheels just stop turning (I assume at that point it doesn't have a way to know that the vehicle is moving.)

Thats an interesting idea, I have only lost braking and began sliding once with ABS on ice downhill. I was prepared to throw it in neutral based on my experiences with non ABS auto transmission vehicles, and when i did, it immediately regained braking and stopped quickly before i slid out into the heavy cross traffic.
Every time I have found myself sliding downhill on ice, throwing the vehicle into neutral was the solution, ABS or non ABS. Under non ABS systems this removes the driving force from the rear wheels that is pushing the front braked wheels down the hill, restoring the limited braking you apply.
4 wheel and AWD may be a whole other story, so I really cannot comment on them.

[Edited on 12-21-2021 by JDCanuck]

AKgringo - 12-22-2021 at 08:31 AM

My choice of tires is different for the Kia Sportage I have in Anchorage, and the one I drive in Northern CA.

On Alaska roads, the chance of driving through wet, heavy snow is less of a problem than operating on ice, so I run AT type tires (currently Nokian} that are will siped and seem to be a softer rubber compound.

I don't "air down" Unless I am on a beach) but on that lightweight vehicle, I only run 26 psi all year! I had 35" BFG Mid terrains on my Suburban that I ran about 32 psi, and they were great in snow, but not on ice! I wound up taking them to a truck tire shop to have sipes cut into the tread. It helped a bit, but the rubber compound was fairly hard, and the aggressive lugs mean less rubber in contact with the ice.

On my CA Kia, I run aggressive mud terrains, and preferably as tall and narrow as I can get. I ran Bias ply Super Swampers for a while, and they cut through Sierra cement like my car was on rails, where with wider AT type tires I have to constantly correct with the steering wheel as it pulls right or left in slush. Harald is correct that Bias ply tire do not air down well.

Important....If you are going to be operating on snow and ice, consider any tire with 50% tread as worn out! Put new ones on your rig, and sell the old ones while they are still worth something instead of running them until they are scrap!

mtgoat666 - 12-22-2021 at 09:44 AM

Best snow/ice driving advice is to stay put until the roads are plowed, sanded, salted. You pay taxes for a reason: take advantage of the road clearing services that make driving easier.

While you are waiting for roads to be cleared, take a walk, go sledding, go skiing, read a book, etc.

4x4abc - 12-22-2021 at 12:30 PM

watched the video again

ABS seemed to work on all of them
ABS does not keep you from locking up 2 wheels on one axle - usually the front
if there is not enough traction (snow, ice) no brake (ABS or not) will stop you

the main factor in this video - PANIC
foot on the brake until the end

the ones who made it got off the brake to be able to steer
some even added gas - good move!
they did best

to be able to do that one needs to have practiced that
practice on flat sow (often)
mental training also helps

heavy vehicles do worse on this slide because they have more mass
the initial speed on top of the hill is also a factor

another little know factor:
part time 4WD (most pickups, older Jeeps) cancels ABS
some vehicles have a warning light to make you aware
some don't

really good 4WD have a button to turn off ABS manually
good for Baja dirt roads
locked up wheels in dirt have a much shorter stopping distance than ABS
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/ABS_offroad.html

[Edited on 12-22-2021 by 4x4abc]

Something to watch for when driving frozen roads

AKgringo - 12-22-2021 at 12:52 PM

Frozen roads are most dangerouse when they are near the melt/freeze point. Things can change rapidly in a short distance due to microclimates caused by topography, elevation changes, angle and aspect of sunlight and other factors,

When I first arrived in Alaska, a truck driver that I knew from California days asked me if I would like to ride along on a round trip from Anchorage to Valdez. That is a trip through three separate climate systems.

One thing he told me he watches, is his tires, and the tires of oncoming trucks. If the tire treads are running frosty white, traction is as good as it can be (that doesn't mean good!). If they are running black and the road is frosty, that means you are running on a film of water and traction is bad!

KurtG - 12-22-2021 at 01:30 PM

I grew up in a remote part of Minnesota generally referred to as "Up North." I drove through, shoveled and plowed so much snow that I have nightmares about it 60 years later. When I left I vowed that my future interaction with snow would be viewing it on distant mountains and I have been mostly successful in my quest to keep it that way.

Don Pisto - 12-22-2021 at 01:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by KurtG

I grew up in a remote part of Minnesota generally referred to as "Up North." I drove through, shoveled and plowed so much snow that I have nightmares about it 60 years later. When I left I vowed that my future interaction with snow would be viewing it on distant mountains and I have been mostly successful in my quest to keep it that way.

also from Minnesota I couldn't agree more! too cold for me here in baja norte, thank god we turned the corner yesterday :coolup:

PaulW - 12-23-2021 at 11:04 AM

New vehicles come with stability and hill decent features. It would be interesting to try out for a downhill drive on an icy or snowy road. Yes I have 3 cars with those features. but so far no testing.

JDCanuck - 12-24-2021 at 11:14 PM

I have to fully agree with Harald on that latest post. Hard to get much experience driving icy roads in Baja, but keep the mind in gear and don't freeze up in panic mode, something I also observed. A tire sliding and locked up on wet ice gives you zero control. ABS is a life saver for the panic types in most situations, but not 100% of the time. I think my natural reaction in this situation would have been to get off the brake, throw in neutral and steer to the ditch. Far better to get stuck in the ditch than get into a 2 vehicle collision.

JZ - 12-25-2021 at 10:02 AM

For sure you can move it.

They want you to move your cars out of the way for all accidents unless someone was injured.

I slid through my own intersection last night!

AKgringo - 12-26-2021 at 07:18 AM

Six members of my family came down from Alaska to spend Christmas with our large, extended family here in Nevada County (CA). I attended the dinner get-together at a home on Banner Mountain, at about 3400 ft elevation.

The heavy rain turned to snow while I was there, and dumped a few inches of wet, slick stuff on the road. I left early, (which turned out to be at the peak of the snow fall) and had to navigate a fairly sleep down slope to a T-intersection.

The antilock brakes did what they could to keep my Trooper on the right track, but I don't think I could have stopped, even at the slow speed I was maintaining.

I thought of this thread and put the transmission in neutral, steering safely through the intersection while making a left turn. Thankfully, there was no cross traffic!

[Edited on 12-26-2021 by AKgringo]

John Harper - 12-26-2021 at 07:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

The antilock brakes did what they could to keep my Trooper on the right track, but I don't think I could have stopped, even at the slow speed I was maintaining.

I thought of this thread and put the transmission in neutral, steering safely through the intersection while making a left turn. Thankfully, there was no cross traffic!

Wow, how amazing able to apply advice from BN in the real world! Glad you made it safely home, sounds pretty nerve wracking!

John

[Edited on 12-26-2021 by John Harper]

AKgringo - 12-26-2021 at 08:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Wow, how amazing able to apply advice from BN in the real world! Glad you made it safely home, sounds pretty nerve wracking!

John

It is about eight miles, and a thousand foot elevation change from the in-laws house, to mine. I left in a blizzard, was out of the snow about halfway home, and did not even need my wipers by the time I got here!

Maderita - 12-28-2021 at 02:05 PM

Looks like we won't be having to worry about coming down the mountain for a while. This advisory was posted on 28 December 2021.
********************************************************

Parque Nacional Sierra de San Pedro Mártir

🚨CERRADO HASTA NUEVO AVISO 🚨
👩‍💻Oficina abierta de lunes a viernes
☎️ (646) 17230-00 ext. 3229
✉️ parquenacional@sanpedromartir.org

[Edited on 12-28-2021 by Maderita]