BajaNomad - Los Cabos Visitors to be Tested for COVID

Should be mandatory vaccination requirement to travel by plane. Anywhere. Mandatory for all.

I agree with vaccine mandates for air travel, indoor dining at restaurants, indoor concerts, etc. I also believe that businesses have a right to impose mandates to protect employees, clients, customers and the communities in which they work.

My eldest daughter is a missionary in Kenya who is anti-vax in a part of the country that has yet to see a severe outbreak. I asked her if she would change her tune if the infection rate rose and she was suddenly faced with the dilemma of needing to protect the ones she's trying to "reach". She's praying it won't come to that.

Ironically, she, her husband and 4 daughters all complied fully with the battery of inoculations needed to travel to Kenya. Go figure.

100X - 12-28-2021 at 09:58 AM

Right or wrong, some people have concerns about this vaccine only. Your daughter is one of them. I am sure she was raised to consider all information and make her own decisions. Maybe rebut her issues.

4x4abc - 12-28-2021 at 10:10 AM

Kenya looks as bad as can be

Screen Shot 2021-12-28 at 10.09.41 AM.png - 46kB

JZ - 12-28-2021 at 11:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Kenya looks as bad as can be

As bad as can be? NY with less than half the population of Kenya and 84% of NY ppl vaxxed had 224,000 new cases last week.

[Edited on 12-28-2021 by JZ]

Bob and Susan - 12-28-2021 at 12:15 PM

we've all been duped ... the vaccine doesn't work

what works
is a mask
hand gel
and stay away from the hospital where the sick are

JC43 - 12-28-2021 at 12:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

we've all been duped ... the vaccine doesn't work

what works
is a mask
hand gel
and stay away from the hospital where the sick are

100% correct. In Europe they are now giving a booster to ths booster and one more shot. Whic is the 5th. BTW Astra Zenaca the British stuff is no longer in use in Europe. All European Countries are sending that stuff to the 3rd world. i.e. Mexico. MX is using Astra Zeneca a lot. And a chineese vaxx for all teachers, but only one shot. They say it is protevtive as can be. :lol:

pauldavidmena - 12-28-2021 at 01:18 PM

Sigh. I was hoping this wouldn't turn into one of those threads.

Back to the original post - I'm curious to know what the BCS government hopes to achieve with this voluntary screening. Also - what happens when someone tests positive?

Bajaboy - 12-28-2021 at 05:01 PM

I'm sure Darwin will figure it out :light:

JZ - 12-28-2021 at 05:11 PM

I'm sure Darwin will figure it out :light:

You are putting you family at greater risk of harm by living in Baja than they would be living in the US unvaxxed.

I applaud you for taking them there, and think it is fantastic. Others wouldn't.

Let's not judge ppl by the personal decisions they make.

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2021 at 05:12 PM

Yikes!

Mexico says cruise ships with coronavirus cases can dock

MEXICO CITY (AP) — The Mexican government said Wednesday it will allow cruise ships carrying people infected with the coronavirus to dock.

The announcement came after two Mexican ports refused to allowed passengers ashore because their ships had coronavirus cases.

The Health Department said passengers or crew who show no symptoms will be allowed to come ashore normally, while those with symptoms or a positive virus test will be quarantined or given medical care.

The department said a cruise ship that was prevented from docking at one Pacific coast port will be allowed to dock farther north, at the port of Guaymas. That was an apparent reference to a ship that was supposed to dock at Puerto Vallarta a few days ago but was not allowed to do so.

JZ - 12-28-2021 at 05:15 PM

You couldn't pay me to get on a cruise ship.

Bajaboy - 12-28-2021 at 05:46 PM

I'm sure Darwin will figure it out :light:

You are putting you family at greater risk of harm by living in Baja than they would be living in the US unvaxxed.

Huh? It's so much safer here on so many levels.

pauldavidmena - 12-29-2021 at 06:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Kenya looks as bad as can be

My daughter and her family live in Garissa, closer to Somalia than Nairobi. The people in Garissa fear attacks from Al Shabaab more than they do COVID.

JDCanuck - 12-29-2021 at 07:36 AM

Enhanced testing is having the unintended consequence of showing far more fully vaccinated people in healthcare carrying the virus than expected. Quebec is now allowing asymptomatic infected health care workers to continue working to keep the system running, while other areas have drastically reduced post exposure isolation times to a bare minimum.

pauldavidmena - 12-29-2021 at 07:45 AM

Enhanced testing is having the unintended consequence of showing far more fully vaccinated people in healthcare carrying the virus than expected. Quebec is now allowing asymptomatic infected health care workers to continue working to keep the system running, while other areas have drastically reduced post exposure isolation times to a bare minimum.

The CDC in the U.S. has halved the recommended isolation time for asymptomatic positive testers from 10 days to 5. I know quite a few people (all of whom were fully vaccinated) who have tested positive with mild symptoms, but none of whom were completely asymptomatic.

pacificobob - 12-29-2021 at 08:08 AM

I'm sure Darwin will figure it out :light:

You are putting you family at greater risk of harm by living in Baja than they would be living in the US unvaxxed.

Huh? It's so much safer here on so many levels.

Consider the source. He. Lives in California, and has indicated he uses Mexican escorts/guides/hand-holders
When SOB.

[Edited on 12-29-2021 by pacificobob]

RFClark - 12-30-2021 at 08:12 PM

JZ,

Positive tests do not hospital cases make! This is NY! The line is last week!

4F59F504-3034-4514-AEE0-E4D34A1BD29C.jpeg - 290kB

JZ - 12-30-2021 at 10:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

JZ,

Positive tests do not hospital cases make! This is NY! The line is last week!

I agree 100%. That has always been my position.

It's going to be even more true with Omicron and so many ppl being vaxxed.

I think (hope) we'll be in a much better place by February.

[Edited on 12-31-2021 by JZ]

pauldavidmena - 1-3-2022 at 05:50 PM

Getting back to the original topic, has anyone flying in to Los Cabos airport seen these voluntary test sites? I'm flying down in a month and am curious to know if it's obvious - even distracting - or if it's barely visible.

pauldavidmena - 1-5-2022 at 08:04 AM

Funny how trying to circle back to the original topic can be such a thread-killer.

Lee - 1-5-2022 at 12:01 PM

Getting back to the original topic, has anyone flying in to Los Cabos airport seen these voluntary test sites? I'm flying down in a month and am curious to know if it's obvious - even distracting - or if it's barely visible.

Prob out your deposit if you're cancelling with B&B.

I advise waiting and seeing how things play out in the next weeks. You don't want to get sick down there.

pauldavidmena - 1-5-2022 at 12:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Prob out your deposit if you're cancelling with B&B.

I advise waiting and seeing how things play out in the next weeks. You don't want to get sick down there.

We could have cancelled up to Christmas Eve without losing our deposit (50%), but now we're on the hook, so yes - we're not making any sudden moves at this point.

The current plan is not to cancel, but rather to cook almost all of our meals at home. The Green Room seems a must-visit, or maybe one more outdoor dining option, but even that can change. Stay tuned!

Don Pisto - 1-5-2022 at 01:55 PM

this will be interesting!
As of this week, it will be mandatory to present proof of vaccination to enter establishments.

With the arrival of the Ómicron variant in Baja California, the Ministry of Health together with the Federal Commission for the Protection against Sanitary Risks (Coepris) announced that it will be mandatory to present proof of vaccination to enter establishments such as restaurants, bars, clubs and more.

This was made known during a press conference by the heads of the dependencies, where a series of new guidelines for businesses was reported, in order to reduce Covid-19 infections.

The new guidelines include requesting proof of vaccination against Covid-19 from workers, clients and suppliers, so now it will be necessary for people to bring said proof physically or digitally.

They also detailed that CO2 monitors should be used in all closed spaces, in order to check that there is good ventilation in the place and this should be kept below 1000 ppm, as well as providing a mask in case the user does not bring one.

They also detailed that face masks must be provided to all those who do not have one, especially in public transport, where it has been detected that users do not use it.

Don Pisto - 1-5-2022 at 06:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

https://www.sandiegored.com/es/noticias/217093/Restaurantes-...

this will be interesting!
As of this week, it will be mandatory to present proof of vaccination to enter establishments.

Interesting, indeed. Do you by chance have a link to the original source of that news?

pauldavidmena - 1-6-2022 at 10:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

https://www.sandiegored.com/es/noticias/217093/Restaurantes-...

this will be interesting!
As of this week, it will be mandatory to present proof of vaccination to enter establishments.

Interesting, indeed. Do you by chance have a link to the original source of that news?

As someone who is fully vaccinated and boosted, I welcome this news, although I realize it's an indication of increased spread. And while this is for BC and not BCS, it's probably just a matter of time before BCS rolls out a mandate.

JZ - 1-6-2022 at 10:42 AM

Why? Being vaxxed doesn't stop the spread. Getting natural immunity from Omicron is very likely to be better for some ppl in the long run.

Being pro vax is great. Mandates not so much. Everyone is in a different health situation. What's good for you, might not be good for others. Especially, those who are very young and healthy. We shouldn't be dictating their long term health choices. How many shots and boosters are you going to wish on them? I don't want that mandated on my teenagers, who have already had Covid.

This disease and the vaccinates are not analogous to past diseases like polio.

[Edited on 1-6-2022 by JZ]

pauldavidmena - 1-6-2022 at 10:53 AM

You're right that being vaccinated doesn't stop the spread, but it does minimize the chance of getting very sick. And when a business mandates proof of vaccination they are trying to ensure the safety of their customers. So short of cancelling my Baja winter getaway for the second year in a row, I'll patronize businesses that go the extra mile (even if it isn't necessarily by choice).

My youngest son championed natural immunity over getting vaccinated, and then he caught Covid and was very sick for over 2 weeks. I'm glad he recovered, but as someone who would like to be a professional gambler, I would say he made a fairly foolish wager.

JZ - 1-6-2022 at 10:55 AM

How old is he? Fitness level?

Omicron appears to be quite different from Delta.

[Edited on 1-6-2022 by JZ]

mtgoat666 - 1-6-2022 at 10:56 AM

Why? Being vaxxed doesn't stop the spread.

Vaccinations reduce the spread, reduce the severity. Vaccinations good.
Encouraging or mandating vaccines is good for public health.

Shorty: quit whining. Stay home if you and family are anti-vaxxing.

mtgoat666 - 1-6-2022 at 10:58 AM

How old is he? Fitness level?

Omicron appears to be quite different from Delta.

[Edited on 1-6-2022 by JZ]

You are awfully nosy!

BajaTed - 1-6-2022 at 11:04 AM

With due respect, the tangent about past viruses is false

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3427559/#:~:tex...

There is a known quantity of them and they all act the same, but due to Darwin' law, our species will react differently amongst us in response.
Its not complicated

pauldavidmena - 1-6-2022 at 12:38 PM

How old is he? Fitness level?

Omicron appears to be quite different from Delta.

[Edited on 1-6-2022 by JZ]

My youngest son is 30 and is quite strong (and bull-headed). He works in the roofing industry in San Antonio. He also has a vaping habit that I believe compromises his health, even though the FDA is way behind the curve as far as labeling it as dangerous as smoking cigarettes. I guess we can thank the tobacco lobby for that.

Omicron has narrowed the disparity between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, but not enough for me to change course. My wife and I have been taking every precaution to keep ourselves, our family and neighborhood safe. I encourage my children (5 of them) to do the same, but being the parent of 30-somethings is very different from being the parent of teenagers. When my oldest daughter was in her early 20s (she's now 38) she asked me for advice, which I happily gave. She replied "I appreciate your wisdom" and then did what she wanted to do in the first place. :?:

Don Pisto - 1-6-2022 at 02:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

https://www.sandiegored.com/es/noticias/217093/Restaurantes-...

this will be interesting!
As of this week, it will be mandatory to present proof of vaccination to enter establishments.

Interesting, indeed. Do you by chance have a link to the original source of that news?

well they took a step back and thought twice about the mandate.
Thursday, January 6, 2022, the state government of Baja California had a press conference this morning about the new policy for vaccination certificates with businesses.
On Tuesday, January 4, the state government issued a new policy in dealing with the pandemic and the new variant, omricon, in which commercial businesses would have to show vaccination certificates to those who work at those businesses and customers as well as to enter the facilities.
Alan Bautista of Canirac stated that this would be difficult to enforce it and much confusion since it was issued Wednesday, January 5, 2022.
Thursday, January 6,2022, the state government had another press conference about the guidelines and stated that the new policy will be as a recommendation, not mandatory, for showing vaccination certificates. Those types of businesses that would be affected would be bars, restaurants, cafes, hair shops, casinos, gyms, stadiums, cinemas and other recreation
For the press conference
https://fb.watch/an5w42c4_

pauldavidmena - 1-6-2022 at 03:34 PM

That's an interesting turn of events. This leaves the burden on the business, as well as the patrons. It's not too different from what I do on Cape Cod - I prefer to do business with restaurants, book stores, etc., who mask up and ask others to do the same. Apart from health care and public transit, there are no mandates here per se, so let the buyer beware.

Don Pisto - 1-6-2022 at 03:34 PM

there were many times I thought sure I'd bring home "something" from CSL.....now you gotta worry about "flurona"!
https://metropolimx.com/detectan-primer-caso-de-flurona-en-c...

windgrrl - 1-7-2022 at 12:55 AM

Business as usual on arrival today, busier than ever and even more airport expansion underway. Packed into a bus after landing to get to arrivals. Extremely quick and efficient through Immigration. Social distancing was absent in line-ups.

No random COVID-19 testing on arrival. There was an indication from the airline, prior to travel, that completion of this form would be required, but it was not required https://www.aeromar.mx/files/Cuestionario_de_viajero.pdf

Happy travels,
W

bajaric - 1-7-2022 at 01:12 AM

Getting vaxxed will decrease the chance of hospitalization, but to say that vaccinations will reduce the spread may be incorrect.

Bring on the double vaxxed and boosted asymptomatic super spreaders!

Herd immunity right around the corner.

pauldavidmena - 1-7-2022 at 10:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by windgrrl

Thanks for the update! I'm glad that there's no random testing of arriving passengers, which would be a little beyond "voluntary".

I'm assuming everyone was masked on the plane and in the airport. I like to travel on weekdays to avoid longer lines on the weekend (even pre-COVID), but if there's construction going on, who knows what things will look like. I suppose I'll find out 4 weeks from today!

pauldavidmena - 1-7-2022 at 10:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric

Getting vaxxed will decrease the chance of hospitalization, but to say that vaccinations will reduce the spread may be incorrect.

Bring on the double vaxxed and boosted asymptomatic super spreaders!

Herd immunity right around the corner.

I was hoping not to be one of those visitors - out to get my dose of Winter sunshine without regard to anyone else. Our plan was to get tested before traveling - assuming that doesn't become a new requirement between now and early February.

Regarding herd immunity, judging from how many people I know who've tested positive in the past few months, we'll get to test that out quite soon.

monoloco - 1-8-2022 at 05:29 PM

The Mexican government should require anyone flying in here be tested. The case count is going up rapidly after all the holiday tourists.

pauldavidmena - 1-8-2022 at 05:52 PM

The Mexican government should require anyone flying in here be tested. The case count is going up rapidly after all the holiday tourists.

I agree. Mary and I are going to get tested anyway, but I'd feel better knowing that everyone on the plane with us has had a recent negative test.

JZ - 1-8-2022 at 06:44 PM

The Mexican government should require anyone flying in here be tested. The case count is going up rapidly after all the holiday tourists.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Sent an employee to the UK in October and they required it.

mtgoat666 - 1-8-2022 at 07:07 PM

The Mexican government should require anyone flying in here be tested. The case count is going up rapidly after all the holiday tourists.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Sent an employee to the UK in October and they required it.

No one should be allowed on a flight, domestic and intl, unless vaccinated, boosted, and recent negative test result.

Flying is not a right, it is a privilege, and there is no reason to allow potential disease vectors to travel on planes where people are in close contact.

monoloco - 1-8-2022 at 09:54 PM

The Mexican government should require anyone flying in here be tested. The case count is going up rapidly after all the holiday tourists.

I agree. Mary and I are going to get tested anyway, but I'd feel better knowing that everyone on the plane with us has had a recent negative test.

They should also require that everyone wears an N95 mask.

JZ - 1-9-2022 at 12:06 AM

They should also require that everyone wears an N95 mask.

Last month CEO's from two of the top 5 largest carriers in the US said at Senate hearings that masks on planes do very little to nothing.

And they stated that planes are very safe because of the way they filter and re-circulate the air. This is from the scientific data they have collected for the last year and a half.

I flew about 10 times in 2020. Didn't get Covid.

If you are at risk and need to fly, by all means wear an N95 mask.

[Edited on 1-9-2022 by JZ]

JDCanuck - 1-9-2022 at 06:42 AM

I hear lots about new mandates to force people to have vaccines they feel strongly are unsafe and far less effective in preventing spread than claimed. Has anyone heard at what point these medical choices will no longer be in legislators' hands, or is this to be left to the vaccine producers to decide?
We now know from real life results the vaccines were drastically over sold in their effectiveness by the producers. Is there anyplace where we can get the real data, or is this forever to be censored based on what legislators determine we should be told?
Am I the only one who is not encouraged when data is sieved by censors before I am permitted to see it?

JDCanuck - 1-9-2022 at 07:37 AM

Over 25% of our family members, all vaccinated have within the past two weeks acquired Omicron and rapidly recovered. The incidence is growing rapidly, as three more were added to that last week. Those three were exposed to a person who was vaccinated and tested positive.

People without vaccine passports have not been allowed in our healthcare facilities for over 3 months now, yet we now have 38 health care facilities with outbreaks, more then 50% higher than the peak when they were allowed in.

Over 84% of the provincial cases are now fully vaccinated in a province that boasts having among the highest vaccinated rates globally.

Local cumulative case fatality rates are now below 0.7% and declining rapidly as the present case fatality rates draw it down rapidly.

My question is: At what point does the government allow individuals to once again make their own medical treatment choices? When present CFR is 0.5%(it's highly likely we are there already)? 0.2% (seasonal flu rates)? or lower than seasonal flu rates?

[Edited on 1-9-2022 by JDCanuck]

100X - 1-9-2022 at 08:54 AM

JDC:
"My question is: At what point does the government allow individuals to....[insert specific liberty]"

This is up to us.

Regardless of initial merit, legislators worldwide have used the pandemic to expand their power over individuals. Because there was a legitimate emergency (at least initially), people for the most part were happy to have their governments take the lead to protect them.

"Political Power:" The ability to collect and spend money.

This is what it has now boiled down to. Legislators on both sides and all over the world now look to Covid as the way to 1) justify raising more money from their people, 2) take away those peoples' right to disagree about it, and 3) most importantly, spend that money as they see fit.

As they in their infinite wisdom see fit: to their own cronies/lobbyists/elites/preferred corporations who support their politics and in return keep them in power, and also in return enrich those same politicians, or their families, or their foundations, or their businesses, or their investments, or their futures after out of politics.

Only we can control these people, at least in countries in which we are allowed the vote, and even so it is not very easy to do.

mtgoat666 - 1-9-2022 at 09:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 100X

JDC:
"My question is: At what point does the government allow individuals to....[insert specific liberty]"

This is up to us.

Regardless of initial merit, legislators worldwide have used the pandemic to expand their power over individuals. Because there was a legitimate emergency (at least initially), people for the most part were happy to have their governments take the lead to protect them.

"Political Power:" The ability to collect and spend money.

This is what it has now boiled down to. Legislators on both sides and all over the world now look to Covid as the way to 1) justify raising more money from their people, 2) take away those peoples' right to disagree about it, and 3) most importantly, spend that money as they see fit.

As they in their infinite wisdom see fit: to their own cronies/lobbyists/elites/preferred corporations who support their politics and in return keep them in power, and also in return enrich those same politicians, or their families, or their foundations, or their businesses, or their investments, or their futures after out of politics.

Only we can control these people, at least in countries in which we are allowed the vote, and even so it is not very easy to do.

You guys are whacky, always seeing a conspiracy or evil intent where there usually is none.

I bet you also think Trump won the election and antifa/fbi actors staged the Jan 6 coup attempt :lol:

100X - 1-9-2022 at 09:07 AM

Monoloco:
"They should also require that everyone wears an N95 mask."

Yeah, whatever happened to this requirement? N95 masks are imminently more effective than the "whatever masks" we are now allowed/required to wear, even in enclosed places. Early on all "the science" highly touted the N95s, and rightfully so. When is the last time these masks were even discussed by our all-knowing leaders?

When there is such a better and still relatively reasonably priced alternative (manufacturing surely could have caught up by now) to just putting whatever single ply of paper or cloth over our mouth and nose, it should make one really question what is going on.

100X - 1-9-2022 at 09:12 AM

Goat, I enjoy your banter but I for one am not going to take the bait.

I have not stated a one-sided political opinion but instead things that relate to both sides (I actually think I just paraphrased something I heard at Berkeley in the 60's).

Carry on!

JDCanuck - 1-9-2022 at 09:38 AM

Mr Mtgoat: When governments force a medical decision on a broad populace regardless of their own specific risk factors in consultation with the doctors they trust, I think we should all be very concerned. We and my family made our decisions based on the information provided to us at the time and in agreement with our doctor. The present information available to us is far different than it was then and I do maintain it is us that should make that decision, not an uninformed politician who has no idea what our risk factors are.

monoloco - 1-9-2022 at 11:42 AM

They should also require that everyone wears an N95 mask.

Did you actually watch the hearing? The CEO of Southwest was hacking unmasked the whole time he was giving testimony and the next day he tested positive for Covid. My neighbor is a flight attendant for Southwest and also came down with Covid19 a couple of weeks ago after two weeks of work. I don't believe that I'll be taking medical advice from airline CEO's.

caj13 - 1-10-2022 at 12:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

we've all been duped ... the vaccine doesn't work

what works
is a mask
hand gel
and stay away from the hospital where the sick are

educate yourself - for god sakes man. The vaccine was never supposed to keep you from getting infected - vaccines don't work that way. They are supposed to keep the infection from becoming bad - essentially its a kickstarter to your immune system so it fights of the replication that leads to all the bad effects.

as such - the vaccines have been remarkably successful - the vast majority of deaths are still from unvaccinated individuals. vaccinated individuals infected with Omacron - pretty much a mild cold - and they are contagious for a much shorter period of time than those un vaxed.

sorry to pour the cold water of facts and science onto your facebook fueled conspiracy theory bull sh##T, but maybe someone here might actually be looking for good information and fact instead of political blowhards with an agenda spouting ignorance and lies!

JZ - 1-10-2022 at 12:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

The vaccine was never supposed to keep you from getting infected - vaccines don't work that way. They are supposed to keep the infection from becoming bad

I knew this from the very beginning.

But that is definitely not how Biden or the media positioned it. They positioned it as critical to stopping inflections and spread.

JDCanuck - 1-10-2022 at 01:33 PM

On vaccines...a good vaccine will build long lasting immunity response , allowing the person when they are infected to fight off any exposure from the present or a similar virus. If a vaccine after only 4 months has less than 50% efficacy I would not call it a good vaccine. How could you possibly vaccinate everyone globally every 4 months? Some better alternative is needed.

Skipjack Joe - 1-10-2022 at 02:54 PM

On vaccines...a good vaccine will build long lasting immunity response , allowing the person when they are infected to fight off any exposure from the present or a similar virus. If a vaccine after only 4 months has less than 50% efficacy I would not call it a good vaccine. How could you possibly vaccinate everyone globally every 4 months? Some better alternative is needed.

The polio vaccine eradicated polio. The reason it was successful is because people bought into it. If you recall, when covid first appeared in the US Trump stated that all we have to do is to maintain the protocol for 6 weeks and we'll be out of this. We had a chance to beat this back then. When you become convinced that vaccines don't work you in effect make them not work. That's essentially what happened in the US. The longer the eradication takes the less effective the vaccine becomes because these critters mutate. There was nothing wrong with the vaccines nor the quality of work that produced them. We failed, not the vaccines.

100X - 1-10-2022 at 04:18 PM

Per Wikipedia:

A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease.[1] A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, or one of its surface proteins. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as a threat, destroy it, and to further recognize and destroy any of the microorganisms associated with that agent that it may encounter in the future. Vaccines can be prophylactic (to prevent or ameliorate the effects of a future infection by a natural or "wild" pathogen), or therapeutic (to fight a disease that has already occurred, such as cancer).[2][3][4][5] Some vaccines offer full sterilizing immunity, in which infection is prevented completely.[6]

I personally remember the Covid vaccine being originally touted as an immunization (i.e. having immunity, being immune), just like the Polio vaccine. "Science"!

JZ - 1-10-2022 at 04:30 PM

Australia with a population 5M less than the state of Texas, spread over a huge land mass that is eleven times bigger than Texas, tried everything humanly possible to eradicate the virus.

They closed their border. They didn't let ppl leave the country (or at least they couldn't get back in).

They had hundreds of days of lock downs with strict curfews. They tracked the movement of their citizens. They arrested ppl for leaving their houses. They forbid ppl from traveling from one city to another to see relatives unless given special govt. permission. They limited gatherings to 2 ppl max.

They have a 93% vaxx rate for ppl 16 and above. And so on.

Well, they just hit 1 million cases and now the govt. is shifting to living with Covid, not trying to eradicate it.

[Edited on 1-10-2022 by JZ]

JDCanuck - 1-10-2022 at 04:54 PM

Pfizer and Moderna coming out very soon with Omicron mRNA vaccines.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/omicron-specific-vac...

And Eli Lily has this on the burner:
Experimental Lilly drug neutralizes Omicron in test tubes

An experimental monoclonal antibody treatment from Eli Lilly & Co is effective against all known variants of the coronavirus, including Omicron, researchers have found.

The drug, known as LY-CoV1404 or bebtelovimab, “potently” neutralized engineered versions of numerous variants, including Alpha, Beta, Delta, Epsilon, Gamma, Iota, and Omicron, in test tube experiments, the researchers reported on Friday on bioRxiv ahead of peer review.

[Edited on 1-11-2022 by JDCanuck]

100X - 1-10-2022 at 06:11 PM

Bajaboy:
"I'm going with what my doctor suggests."

That is great advice for all, especially if we also apply our own knowledge and ask questions (the doctors are after all providing their medical opinions--which are based upon science and learning).

But do realize that not all doctors' science-based medical opinions will be the same on what is the best approach.

JZ - 1-10-2022 at 07:56 PM

I'm going with what my doctor suggests. I'm not sure why you think you are so much smarter than a scientist/doctor?

Agree with you 1000%.

You should make the best choice for you and your family in consultation with your doctor who knows your family's medical history, blended in with your own research and judgment.

mtgoat666 - 1-10-2022 at 09:43 PM

For all you hosers and hoserphiles:

“(CNN) — Canada was moved to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's highest-risk category for travel on Monday.”

[Edited on 1-11-2022 by mtgoat666]

JDCanuck - 1-10-2022 at 09:52 PM

For all you hosers and hoserphiles:

“(CNN) — Canada was moved to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's highest-risk category for travel on Monday.”

[Edited on 1-11-2022 by mtgoat666]

Interesting, higher vaccination rates, far lower "death from covid " rates, much higher recovery rates and we are the highest risk ones. I'm waiting to see the science behind this and quite pleased to join these other countries on the list with the most rapid declines in case fatality rates:

In addition to new entries Canada and Curaçao, some of the biggest travel names remain firmly lodged at the CDC's Level 4 for now:
• France
• Iceland
• Ireland
• Italy
• Netherlands
• Portugal
• South Africa
• Spain
• Switzerland
• United Kingdom

[Edited on 1-11-2022 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 1-10-2022 at 10:07 PM

Why do you need to “see the science?”

The stats are what you need to see: “The CDC places a destination at Level 4 when more than 500 cases per 100,000 residents are registered in the past 28 days. The CDC advises travelers to avoid travel to Level 4 countries.”

Stop licking door knobs! Wash your hands!

Skipjack Joe - 1-11-2022 at 01:03 AM

Why don't you quote the stats from China, or even next door New Zealand. Obviously it takes a world effort. It stands to reason that if the Australian quarantine was 100% it would have worked. It was important to eradicate the virus early when the vaccines were 95% effective. The more variants that arise the less effective the vaccines become. They were constructed for a specific virus so why would you expect the same results from different ones? You can thank your Florida hero for doing his part to spread the disease.

Ateo - 1-11-2022 at 08:16 AM

1500 people in the USA are dying every day........that's a 1/2 of a 9/11/2001 every day of unneeded deaths due to the public's misunderstanding of science and vaccines. That's just good ol' unneeded carnage and suffering that WE ARE ALL experiencing.

Hope no one else in your family, or group of friends, or fellow countrymen, or world amigos, dies needlessly because they didn't get vaccinated.

Yes, some will die due to a co morbidity but since when did we stop giving a crap about people because they are overweight or have a disease?

This is a pointless rant. I know it's almost impossible to change people's minds, even my own. Were did my beliefs come from? How do I know I'm right? How many things have I been wrong about in my life?

[Edited on 1-11-2022 by Ateo]

pauldavidmena - 1-11-2022 at 08:34 AM

Here's a timely chart from today's NY Times.

The accompanying article might be behind a paywall, but elaborates on the data depicted in the chart.

pauldavidmena - 1-11-2022 at 08:44 AM

I should have included this chart too - from the same NY Times article.

gnukid - 1-11-2022 at 09:29 AM

Take in account the broad misinformation, by people who should know better, for example, SCOTUS Justice Sotomayer said confidently We (US) have 100,000 children in the hospital severely ill with COVID, yet, that statement was false, and confirmed by CDC leader Walensky, when questioned, stated, there are less than 3500 children in the hospital and of those, many are there for comorbidities issues, "WITH" a covid diagnosis. Meaning, children are actually at extremely low risk of severe COVID illness. While the Jabs are extremely high risk for children who are at increased risk of myocarditis, heart inflammation, paralysis, immune system collapse, injuries and death.

Walensky says Sotomayor's pediatric COVID hospitalization number was off dramatically
https://news.yahoo.com/walensky-says-sotomayor-apos-pediatri...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/09/cdc-rochelle...

JDCanuck - 1-11-2022 at 10:03 AM

I know this is really irksome to some, but more and more scientists are coming to this same conclusion as they follow the Omicron waves in various countries. Follow the Science:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10386665/Covid-kill...

Dr Clive Dix, the former chief of the UK's vaccine taskforce, called for a return to a 'new normality' and for Covid to be treated like the flu now that they have a similar death rate.

MailOnline analysis shows the UK's case fatality rate — the proportion of confirmed infections that end in death — has shrunk 21-fold from 3 per cent last winter to 0.15 per cent at the end of December. For comparison, seasonal influenza is thought to have a case-fatality rate of around 0.1 per cent but fewer tests are done. Other scientists expect the infection-fatality rate, which is naturally even lower, to be similar.

Dr Dix, who was instrumental in acquiring the UK's initial Covid jab supply, called for mass population-based vaccination to end in favour of a 'targeted strategy' aimed at the vulnerable.

There are also calls for routine testing to be scrapped to put an end to the self-isolation crisis plaguing businesses and vital services now that Omicron is causing little or no symptoms for most. Writing in the Mail today, Professor Angus Dalgleish, an oncologist at St George's University, said mass screening was beginning to amount to 'national self-harm'.

100X - 1-11-2022 at 10:11 AM

I've asked this before:

So is it now time for say a healthy, vaccinated 60 year old to want to get Omicron so that when he/she is say 70 and in lesser health he/she has natural immunity against whatever potentially more severe variant is circulating then?

Hmmm...low risk, mild symptoms, large immune system benefit, natural antibodies, no myocarditis...compared to the vaccine and boosters...must calculate risk/benefit...

100X - 1-11-2022 at 10:14 AM

...and shouldn't every healthy person under 50 be thinking about the same thing...

mtgoat666 - 1-11-2022 at 10:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 100X

I've asked this before:

So is it now time for say a healthy, vaccinated 60 year old to want to get Omicron so that when he/she is say 70 and in lesser health he/she has natural immunity against whatever potentially more severe variant is circulating then?

Hmmm...low risk, mild symptoms, large immune system benefit, natural antibodies, no myocarditis...compared to the vaccine and boosters...must calculate risk/benefit...

Is it better to break your leg when young or old? You will heal better/faster when young, so you should break your leg today instead of next year :light:

Don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today!
Break a leg!

100X - 1-11-2022 at 10:16 AM

...and parents...definitely parents...think it through...

100X - 1-11-2022 at 10:18 AM

I don't ever have to break a leg.

I, and all others including parents, do have to deal with Covid.

gnukid - 1-11-2022 at 11:08 AM

Officially only one case of Omicron in BCS according to head of health department.

https://www.bcsnoticias.mx/bcs-solo-tiene-un-caso-de-omicron...

Secretaría de Salud (SSA), Zazil Flores Aldape dio a conocer que en Baja California Sur solo se tiene registrado un caso de Ómicron de forma oficial

Don Pisto - 1-11-2022 at 11:21 AM

well we're back in the orange.......
https://www.sandiegored.com/es/noticias/217384/Marina-del-Pi...

JDCanuck - 1-11-2022 at 12:01 PM

Thanks Don Pisto: Has been difficult for me to get the levels in BC and BCS recently. Hoping to travel down mid Feb, so hopefully this recent Omicron wave peaks and declines there as quickly as it has elsewhere.

John Harper - 1-11-2022 at 01:38 PM

Gnukid,

We all know that vaccines are not 100% effective. And, not 100% harmless.

We all know that Covid is not 100% fatal. And, not 100% harmless.

Most of us comprehend that the real problem is the overtaxing of our healthcare system, which strains first responders, costs unnecessary millions (billions?) more to taxpayers, and sacrifices health service capacity which costs additional lives in postponed treatment.

Selfishness is expensive! How many unnecessary health care dollars went to try and save the life of that Orange County DA, which very likely could have been avoided with an inexpensive vaccination?

And, once again, most all of us realize that. But....

Continue to worry about the trees, and miss the forest. Navel gazing can be therapeutic.

John

[Edited on 1-11-2022 by John Harper]

Skipjack Joe - 1-11-2022 at 08:49 PM

I know this is really irksome to some, but more and more scientists are coming to this same conclusion as they follow the Omicron waves in various countries. Follow the Science:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10386665/Covid-kill...

Dr Clive Dix, the former chief of the UK's vaccine taskforce, called for a return to a 'new normality' and for Covid to be treated like the flu now that they have a similar death rate.

MailOnline analysis shows the UK's case fatality rate — the proportion of confirmed infections that end in death — has shrunk 21-fold from 3 per cent last winter to 0.15 per cent at the end of December. For comparison, seasonal influenza is thought to have a case-fatality rate of around 0.1 per cent but fewer tests are done. Other scientists expect the infection-fatality rate, which is naturally even lower, to be similar.

Dr Dix, who was instrumental in acquiring the UK's initial Covid jab supply, called for mass population-based vaccination to end in favour of a 'targeted strategy' aimed at the vulnerable.

There are also calls for routine testing to be scrapped to put an end to the self-isolation crisis plaguing businesses and vital services now that Omicron is causing little or no symptoms for most. Writing in the Mail today, Professor Angus Dalgleish, an oncologist at St George's University, said mass screening was beginning to amount to 'national self-harm'.

Yes, comparing covid to the flu is irksome. It was irksome when Trump did it and apparently we haven't learned yet (850,000 deaths). Covid is deadly. The flu rarely is. You can't just fold your arms and say it's over because Omicron is less dangerous than the previous half dozen variants. The fight isn't over. There will be more deadly variants to come almost certainly. We have come such a long way to just stop the vaccinations now is insane. That's how I feel about it.

JZ - 1-11-2022 at 10:32 PM

I think this is the end of it.

We will see.

surabi - 1-11-2022 at 10:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 100X

Hmmm...low risk, mild symptoms, large immune system benefit, natural antibodies, no myocarditis...compared to the vaccine and boosters...must calculate risk/benefit...

"The United States reported 1.35 million new coronavirus infections on Monday, according to a Reuters tally, the highest daily total for any country in the world, driven by the Omicron variant.

There were more than 136,604 people hospitalized with COVID-19 in the United States, surpassing the record of 132,051 set in January last year, according to the tally for Monday."

JDCanuck - 1-12-2022 at 07:57 AM

We here in British Columbia seem to be following the South Africa, UK and other countries' experience in this latest wave. Omicron surge hit fast and hard driving hospitalizations up and then new cases per day peaked out about 5 days ago, far fewer fatalities and hospitalizations beginning to fall off again as people recovered more rapidly from milder symptoms than with the Delta strain.
Looks like US and Mexico are lagging behind us and have yet to hit their peaks.

mtgoat666 - 1-12-2022 at 07:57 AM

I think this is the end of it.

We will see.

What will the next variant be called?

1/3 of Americans are still unvaxed, wearing their masks below their noses and licking door knobs.

Can’t avoid a pandemic when 1/3 of Americans are stupid…

JDCanuck - 1-12-2022 at 08:01 AM

I think this is the end of it.

We will see.

Those UK scientists never talked about stopping the vaccinations, just redirecting them more efficiently to those most at risk as a priority. I thought they were quite clear about that in the article. Hoarding supplies until they expire in a country where people do not want them rather than releasing them to countries where they line up for days to get them does not seem very efficient.

[Edited on 1-12-2022 by JDCanuck]

Skipjack Joe - 1-12-2022 at 08:44 AM

Here is something interesting. It shows that during times of high covid cases the unvaccinated covid patients do push out the non-covid patients out of ICU beds.

Several people had suspected that but here is the proof that it happens. This is one reason why the vaccinated are so irate at the non-vaccinated.

Screen Shot 2022-01-12 at 8.38.17 AM.png - 134kB

100X - 1-12-2022 at 08:58 AM

Interesting, if I am reading the graph right, we have throughout the pandemic had at least some ICU beds available. I understood there were times we were at capacity. Am I reading it wrong, were we never at capacity, or is the graph incorrect?

I also wonder if the comorbidity issue people mention has something to do with what appears to be a reduction on non-covid occupants as the covid occupants increase. Any thoughts on this?

JZ - 1-12-2022 at 09:29 AM

What will the next variant be called?

1/3 of Americans are still unvaxed, wearing their masks below their noses and licking door knobs.

Can’t avoid a pandemic when 1/3 of Americans are stupid…

What does being vaxxed have to do with stopping infections?

Stop rooting for the virus.

JZ - 1-12-2022 at 09:34 AM

Sounds like smoking weed could save your life.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajherrington/2022/01/11/study-f...

JDCanuck - 1-12-2022 at 10:04 AM

Hi Skipjack: I looked for that graph you posted and can't find the data source. This was the one that i came up with showing the raw data over the entire US
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/hospitalization-7-day-trend

[Edited on 1-12-2022 by JDCanuck]

Screenshot 2022-01-12 at 09-06-23 Weekly Hospitalization Trends - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center.jpg - 68kB

Screenshot 2022-01-12 at 09-06-23 Weekly Hospitalization Trends - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center.jpg - 68kB

Skipjack Joe - 1-12-2022 at 11:21 AM

I’m not surprised that you didn’t find it. It’s for the state of Idaho. The same issue can be seen for the entire country but to a lesser extent. It happens when you reach the capacity of hospital beds and that’s more likely to happen in states where vaccination is taken less seriously.

Regarding comorbidity. I guess you mean non covid cases being counted as covid. Ive never bought into the argument that case numbers are false. That’s gnukid’s territory. The biggest changes occur when ICUs are filled to capacity or close to it. That’s when the non covid numbers drop. It’s clear that the medical staff has to prioritize based on the severity of the illness. They are professionals that don’t care if the patient is vaccinated or not.

JDCanuck - 1-12-2022 at 11:39 AM

I’m not surprised that you didn’t find it. It’s for the state of Idaho. The same issue can be seen for the entire country but to a lesser extent. It happens when you reach the capacity of hospital beds and that’s more likely to happen in states where vaccination is taken less seriously.

Regarding comorbidity. I guess you mean non covid cases being counted as covid. Ive never bought into the argument that case numbers are false. That’s gnukid’s territory. The biggest changes occur when ICUs are filled to capacity or close to it. That’s when the non covid numbers drop. It’s clear that the medical staff has to prioritize based on the severity of the illness. They are professionals that don’t care if the patient is vaccinated or not.

Skipjack:
I wondered if it wasn't a specific state, thanks. Yes, we up here in some provinces have exceeded our ICU capacity as more and more hospital staff have tested positive to Omicron. Thankfully in British Columbia, the ICU cases began declining before we reached that point and seem to be continuing down at present due to the more rapid recovery rates along with very rapidly declining fatality rates.
I am very thankful our system is being run and managed by experienced Science based health professionals and the political wrangling has never been a big issue as both sides have supported the directives. I do believe this is what has from the very beginning led to high acceptance rates as the public trust levels are very high. Vaccines and testing has always been in short supply and very few were wasted as people lined up to receive what was available

[Edited on 1-12-2022 by JDCanuck]

100X - 1-12-2022 at 12:09 PM

"I guess you mean non covid cases being counted as covid."

No, actually I mean co.... More than one thing, and including covid.

JZ - 1-12-2022 at 12:57 PM

Regarding comorbidity. I guess you mean non covid cases being counted as covid. Ive never bought into the argument that case numbers are false. That’s gnukid’s territory. The biggest changes occur when ICUs are filled to capacity or close to it. That’s when the non covid numbers drop. It’s clear that the medical staff has to prioritize based on the severity of the illness. They are professionals that don’t care if the patient is vaccinated or not.

The CDC director just said this week that at least 75% of ppl with Covid who died had 4 comorbidities.

JZ - 1-12-2022 at 02:00 PM

This is interesting.

California health care workers who test positive for Covid-19 and are asymptomatic can return to work immediately, according to the latest guidance from the state’s public health department.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/omicron-variant-coronavi...

KurtG - 1-12-2022 at 03:16 PM