BajaNomad

Covid testing prior to returning to the U.S.

pauldavidmena - 1-14-2022 at 08:50 AM

Back in December the CDC issued the requirement of a negative rapid test within a day of returning to the U.S. from an international location - including Mexico, of course. This presents travelers with an interesting dilemma: in the remote chance that one tests positive for Covid, what does one do?

When I asked this question of St. Jude's Hospital in Todos Santos, they said that I would need to isolate for 5 days before getting retested. Given that I'll be checking out of an AirBnB on the following morning, I'll need to scramble to find a place to stay - and to not be out in public for the next 5 days. This would be easy if I lived in Todos part-time - I would just return to my home - but navigating quarantine from a hotel (assuming there are any vacancies during February) would be much trickier. Not to mention the need to reschedule the return flight, the rental car return and our dogsitter back in MA. It's making us strongly reconsider our plans.

Has anyone on BN experienced a positive test in Baja since this rule was put in place (or know of someone who has)? I'd be curious to know if the likelihood is so negligible that it's worth the risk to escape a New England winter for 8 days (and possibly 13).

100X - 1-14-2022 at 09:01 AM

I understand your concern. I do not know anyone that received a positive result, but we had 3 guests in Loreto and all of them received a negative test before leaving.

To be honest, the danger of getting Covid does not seem much different down here than in the states. Again, I understand your concern, but I believe if you continue to practice safe behavior the "gamble" is well in your favor.

I once asked my neurosurgeon if I could race the Baja 1000 9 weeks after L5/S1 discectomy, to which he responded "Well there is always a risk, but I would go for it--you have to live your life." I often think of those words, and generally live by them.

JDCanuck - 1-14-2022 at 09:03 AM

I would think if you tested positive you should also inform the place that you book to stay at for those 5 days that you are indeed carrying the virus so they can take extra precautions against you spreading it to others. Are there any hotels that have volunteered to house positive cases in Cabo and what are they charging to do so?

mtgoat666 - 1-14-2022 at 09:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  

Has anyone on BN experienced a positive test in Baja since this rule was put in place (or know of someone who has)? I'd be curious to know if the likelihood is so negligible that it's worth the risk to escape a New England winter for 8 days (and possibly 13).


here in san diego, i know many people that came down with covid over the past month. i have friends in baja that tested positive for covid in past month. the risk of getting covid is pretty high, lots of people getting it this winter. the majority of the population expected to get covid omicron variant over this winter, so you got a better than 50/50 chance chance of getting covid this winter, and there is appreciable chance you will test positive in baja.

if you test positive, follow the guidance and quarantine. in your case of traveling in baja, this will require you to get a hotel room, get a new air ticket home, retest, etc.

travel is a bit more complicated in this time of covid.

pauldavidmena - 1-14-2022 at 09:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 100X  
I understand your concern. I do not know anyone that received a positive result, but we had 3 guests in Loreto and all of them received a negative test before leaving.

To be honest, the danger of getting Covid does not seem much different down here than in the states. Again, I understand your concern, but I believe if you continue to practice safe behavior the "gamble" is well in your favor.

I once asked my neurosurgeon if I could race the Baja 1000 9 weeks after L5/S1 discectomy, to which he responded "Well there is always a risk, but I would go for it--you have to live your life." I often think of those words, and generally live by them.


My wife's doctor gave her the same advice - to make the trip down and to prepare most of our meals in the casita we are renting. Fortunately she loves to cook, and there are plenty of markets in which to buy fresh meat, fish, vegetables, etc. It will put a damper on any (or at least most) nights out, or visiting with friends we have made over the years, but there's something to be said for a dose of warm weather during winter.

Cancelling at this point would mean forfeiting the deposit on the casita (about 50% of the total cost) and whatever fees we'd have to pay the airline. Testing positive - which I agree is less likely than testing negative - would mean having to pay for a hotel, extended auto rental, etc., and to have take-out delivered to our room. At least we'd be able to do so wearing sandals and shorts!

JDCanuck - 1-14-2022 at 09:17 AM

Voluntary isolation camps is starting to make a whole lot more sense for those that are unfortunate enough to test positive while on vacation. We are hearing of more and more people we know in La Paz that have tested positive for Covid, presumably the Omicron strain(9 in the past week) and the risk of contracting it on vacation is elevated at present.

[Edited on 1-14-2022 by JDCanuck]

pauldavidmena - 1-14-2022 at 09:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  

Has anyone on BN experienced a positive test in Baja since this rule was put in place (or know of someone who has)? I'd be curious to know if the likelihood is so negligible that it's worth the risk to escape a New England winter for 8 days (and possibly 13).


here in san diego, i know many people that came down with covid over the past month. i have friends in baja that tested positive for covid in past month. the risk of getting covid is pretty high, lots of people getting it this winter. the majority of the population expected to get covid omicron variant over this winter, so you got a better than 50/50 chance chance of getting covid this winter, and there is appreciable chance you will test positive in baja.

if you test positive, follow the guidance and quarantine. in your case of traveling in baja, this will require you to get a hotel room, get a new air ticket home, retest, etc.

travel is a bit more complicated in this time of covid.


As it happens, my wife's doctor - the same one who encouraged us to go - basically said "you will probably catch COVID at some point this winter". She is headed to Hawaii today, where she won't need (but should take voluntarily) a negative test to return home.

BajaParrothead - 1-14-2022 at 09:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
Back in December the CDC issued the requirement of a negative rapid test within a day of returning to the U.S. from an international location - including Mexico, of course. This presents travelers with an interesting dilemma: in the remote chance that one tests positive for Covid, what does one do?

When I asked this question of St. Jude's Hospital in Todos Santos, they said that I would need to isolate for 5 days before getting retested. Given that I'll be checking out of an AirBnB on the following morning, I'll need to scramble to find a place to stay - and to not be out in public for the next 5 days. This would be easy if I lived in Todos part-time - I would just return to my home - but navigating quarantine from a hotel (assuming there are any vacancies during February) would be much trickier. Not to mention the need to reschedule the return flight, the rental car return and our dogsitter back in MA. It's making us strongly reconsider our plans.

Has anyone on BN experienced a positive test in Baja since this rule was put in place (or know of someone who has)? I'd be curious to know if the likelihood is so negligible that it's worth the risk to escape a New England winter for 8 days (and possibly 13).

December28 a friend and his family tested the day before their flight out of SJD. Of the five family members, his daughter tested positive with the rapid test. She had no symptoms, so they retested her the following day and she was negative. They all boarded and returned to the states.

In their case, they contacted me to see if they could stay in my vacant home in LB if she indeed tested positive again, but that wasn't necessary.

JDCanuck - 1-14-2022 at 09:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaParrothead  

December28 a friend and his family tested the day before their flight out of SJD. Of the five family members, his daughter tested positive with the rapid test. She had no symptoms, so they retested her the following day and she was negative. They all boarded and returned to the states.

In their case, they contacted me to see if they could stay in my vacant home in LB if she indeed tested positive again, but that wasn't necessary.


So it seems she had a false positive, while in our family we strongly believe we have had two of the 5 tests come back false negatives despite showing symptoms using the rapid tests. Maybe this is why our health leaders are now telling us if we have symptoms to assume we have covid and not bother getting tested unless the symptoms become very worrisome at which point they will provide a more accurate PCR test on appointment.

[Edited on 1-14-2022 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 1-14-2022 at 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaParrothead  

December28 a friend and his family tested the day before their flight out of SJD. Of the five family members, his daughter tested positive with the rapid test. She had no symptoms, so they retested her the following day and she was negative. They all boarded and returned to the states.

In their case, they contacted me to see if they could stay in my vacant home in LB if she indeed tested positive again, but that wasn't necessary.


So it seems she had a false positive,


more likely she had a true positive followed by a false negative.

2 unwritten (and potentially unethical) rules of testing: (1) don't test if you dont need to, because you might not like the result; and (2) if you dont like the first result, keep testing until you get the result you like.

JDCanuck - 1-14-2022 at 10:49 AM

Altho I already have a return flight pre-booked (which thankfully can be cancelled or delayed at no cost), We are avoiding setting a time to travel down there until the present wave shows consistent signs of being in a declining trend, similar to the last time we went down. We also did not book our initial hotels until very late to avoid possibilities of having to cancel. There were a lot of unoccupied hotel rooms in La Paz at that time and not booking early on was not inconvenient.
Planning necessary travel has become a very complicated situation.

JZ - 1-14-2022 at 10:52 AM

When are you going? There is a chance for this spike to be over in 1 to 2 months.

You should investigate getting an at home test and having it proctored (video call). That way you don't have to go to a clinic and perhaps you can just stay were you are in the chance you test positive. I'm pretty sure that this works for airlines like Alaska, so assume others as well.

Also, a lot of airlines now let you cancel flights and they have eliminated change fees. They will give you credit for other flights.

I've been to Baja several times over the last year, flying in. I probably wouldn't go for the next 2 months.



JDCanuck - 1-14-2022 at 11:07 AM

Plan was to drive down in January through the US (delayed now til mid to late Feb due to present Covid surging in the US). Westjet allows you to cancel, delay or transfer flights to others at no cost, and the returning flight is presently booked for Mar 31, which still looks hopeful. As I have my own remote residence, testing there before flying back isn't an issue for me like it would be for the Original Poster. I really sympathize for those that might be trapped down there by testing positive with limited options for places to stay if they do.
I can't say enough good things about Westjet as they provided us with luxurious meals and accommodations when we were stranded in Calgary for 2 days during the sudden storm back last fall which prevented them from flying into Cabo.

[Edited on 1-14-2022 by JDCanuck]

pauldavidmena - 1-14-2022 at 11:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
When are you going? There is a chance for this spike to be over in 1 to 2 months.

You should investigate getting an at home test and having it proctored (video call). That way you don't have to go to a clinic and perhaps you can just stay were you are in the chance you test positive. I'm pretty sure that this works for airlines like Alaska, so assume others as well.

Also, a lot of airlines now let you cancel flights and they have eliminated change fees. They will give you credit for other flights.

I've been to Baja several times over the last year, flying in. I probably wouldn't go for the next 2 months.


We are scheduled to fly out from Boston on February 3 and to return from Los Cabos on February 11. So our flight is 3 weeks from yesterday, leaving us very little window to see an encouraging trend in COVID infections in BCS. Things seem to be improving here on Cape Cod, but Baja seems like a world away.

We have an appointment for a rapid test in Todos Santos the afternoon before we fly out. That would be well within the time range required by the CDC - assuming it's negative. If it's positive for either one of us, we've got a bunch of phone calls to make when we get back to the casita.

Our tickets through American Airlines are not non-refundable, but I imagine there would be fees involved if we had to reschedule. Our car rental will be from Dominic's Los Cabos. My guess is that he would let us extend our rental lest we have to drive down to Los Cabos airport to return it and then find a way back to Todos Santos - all after testing positive for COVID.

If we had more flexibility, we'd push out our plans by a month or more, but we'd need to work with our casita's property manager (i.e. not AirBnB, through whom we rented it) to figure that part out. In the meantime, we're watching the situation as closely as we can from 3300 miles away.

JZ - 1-14-2022 at 01:02 PM

Definitely book travel through airlines like Delta and Alaska moving forward. Both have eliminated change fees. They also give you the option to make the tickets fully refundable (you get the cash back immediately), but worst case they give you a credit.

Airlines like American and United don't give two sh#ts about their customers. Hell, they were basically the only two airlines not blocking middle seats on flights in 2020.


[Edited on 1-14-2022 by JZ]

JDCanuck - 1-14-2022 at 01:25 PM

PaulDavid: Seems to me the biggest issue you MIGHT face is finding accommodation for that additional week if someone did test positive just before flying out. If you were in our neck of the woods, I'd offer you our place as backup, but that not being the case, is there anyone you know near Todos Santos that might be willing to offer the same? Before you did that tho, I would definitely contact the casita owner and try to work out either partial refunds and just rebook for a later time or get some assurances from them they would help you find alternative accommodations.

[Edited on 1-14-2022 by JDCanuck]

pauldavidmena - 1-14-2022 at 01:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Definitely book travel through airlines like Delta and Alaska moving forward. Both have eliminated change fees. They also give you the option to make the tickets fully refundable (you get the cash back immediately), but worst case they give you a credit.

Airlines like American and United don't give two sh#ts about their customers. Hell, they were basically the only two airlines not block the middle seat on flights in 2020.


Unfortunately American seems to have a majority of same-day flights between Boston and Cabo (usually through Dallas or Phoenix). We may have taken United and Delta one time each, but most of the time we've been locked into American. If we didn't mind breaking up our travel each way over 2 days, we would have more options, but with both of us working, we've never been able to take more than a week or too off. I'm hoping to retire within a year or so, which would remove that obstacle.

pauldavidmena - 1-14-2022 at 01:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
PaulDavid: Seems to me the biggest issue you MIGHT face is finding accommodation for that additional week if someone did test positive just before flying out. If you were in our neck of the woods, I'd offer you our place as backup, but that not being the case, is there anyone you know near Todos Santos that might be willing to offer the same?


That's a good question. We know a few people in Todos Santos / Pescadero, but haven't thought to presume ourselves upon them in an emergency situation. We may make some inquiries this weekend, hoping to secure the proverbial unused umbrella.

Thank you for the offer, by the way. If you ever find yourself marooned in Cape Cod, we've got plenty of room. - Paul

JDCanuck - 1-14-2022 at 01:37 PM

Visiting Baja is always an adventure for us, sudden changes in plans seem to be the norm. I myself would enjoy camping out for a time if that became necessary and just add it to the list of adventures provided.

pauldavidmena - 1-14-2022 at 01:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
Visiting Baja is always an adventure for us, sudden changes in plans seem to be the norm. I myself would enjoy camping out for a time if that became necessary and just add it to the list of adventures provided.


If we had an RV, there is an unofficial camping area not too far from where we'll be staying. I say "unofficial" because it's really just a parking lot for the beach near the turtle sanctuary. Lately the locals - with help from local authorities - have been closing it off because of the proliferation of overnight campers. "This is why we can't have nice things".

Changing flights tip

AKgringo - 1-14-2022 at 03:23 PM

If it is reasonably close, go directly to an airport where your departure, or return flight is (or was) scheduled to leave from.

Negotiating across the counter, face to face with a live person, I have been able to accomplish changes that would likely never happen over the phone or by exchanging messages online!

[Edited on 1-14-2022 by AKgringo]

Lee - 1-14-2022 at 03:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  

We know a few people in Todos Santos / Pescadero, but haven't thought to presume ourselves upon them in an emergency situation. We may make some inquiries this weekend, hoping to secure the proverbial unused umbrella.


If I had room, and I don't, doubtful I'd welcome anyone testing positive.

Seriously, you NEED a backup plan (confirmed place to stay) should you test positive. Hotels are testing arrivals, aren't they?

pauldavidmena - 1-15-2022 at 07:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  

We know a few people in Todos Santos / Pescadero, but haven't thought to presume ourselves upon them in an emergency situation. We may make some inquiries this weekend, hoping to secure the proverbial unused umbrella.


If I had room, and I don't, doubtful I'd welcome anyone testing positive.

Seriously, you NEED a backup plan (confirmed place to stay) should you test positive. Hotels are testing arrivals, aren't they?


Hi Lee,

I should dial back my statement about making inquiries, as I would never expect friends or acquaintances to welcome us into their homes if either of us were to test positive. I was thinking more of a fantasy scenario where someone we knew had a property that was vacant (during peak season) and would let us stay for five days.

Apart from canceling our trip altogether, which remains a possibility, here is what I'm thinking:

  1. Inquire of the property manager regarding an extended stay
  2. Purchase enough food for the additional five days
  3. If negative, leave the extra food with friends or the property manager

If we test positive, we would have to return to our rental casita to gather our belongings anyway, so unless he has a tenant immediately following our stay (a distinct possibility), I would think he'd be open to the additional income. If not, we'll have the unenviable task of trying to find a hotel (Casa Tota, perhaps?) that 1) has vacancies, and 2) will let us stay there.

I'm hopeful that we continue to defy the odds and that all of this contingency planning is just an exercise in needless worry.

Alm - 1-18-2022 at 12:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
Back in December the CDC issued the requirement of a negative rapid test within a day of returning to the U.S. from an international location - including Mexico, of course. This presents travelers with an interesting dilemma: in the remote chance that one tests positive for Covid, what does one do?

I understand this is for air arrivals only.
Didn't fly internationally since Covid - chose to drive, but I would "think" the airline will deny the boarding. You'll be allowed again in 14 days or with a negative test, whichever comes earlier. Need a backup plan - hardly a problem for somebody retired who owns/leases a place in Baja. More hassle if you work. At least, this is a cheap and widely available test that can be ready in a couple of hours, not a PCR/NAAT test that may cost $200-250 in Baja and takes longer to process.

pauldavidmena - 1-18-2022 at 01:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
Back in December the CDC issued the requirement of a negative rapid test within a day of returning to the U.S. from an international location - including Mexico, of course. This presents travelers with an interesting dilemma: in the remote chance that one tests positive for Covid, what does one do?

I understand this is for air arrivals only.
Didn't fly internationally since Covid - chose to drive, but I would "think" the airline will deny the boarding. You'll be allowed again in 14 days or with a negative test, whichever comes earlier. Need a backup plan - hardly a problem for somebody retired who owns/leases a place in Baja. More hassle if you work. At least, this is a cheap and widely available test that can be ready in a couple of hours, not a PCR/NAAT test that may cost $200-250 in Baja and takes longer to process.


Yes - this is for air arrivals only, as far as I know. Theoretically the quarantine time is 5 days or a negative test. I'll be flying into Cabo on Feb 3 and leaving on Feb 11. Unfortunately I don't have a place in Baja and will only be renting a casita via AirBnB. We do have appointments to take the tests in Todos Santos within 24 hours of the flight, and have a Plan B in the event of a positive test, but there will still be quite a bit of scrambling involved beyond just having a place to quarantine.

Lee - 1-18-2022 at 03:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
We do have appointments to take the tests in Todos Santos within 24 hours of the flight, and have a Plan B in the event of a positive test, but there will still be quite a bit of scrambling involved beyond just having a place to quarantine.


Right. Backup plan is a place to stay in case of a positive reading. Turd in the punchbowl might be not getting into a hotel anywhere (Tota) if they are testing at arrival.

Worse case scenario is being sicker than mild symptoms -- and unable to fly for awhile -- 1-2-3 weeks or more.

Before I left last Spring, we had a German couple staying with us, they had a tricked out Sprinter type van. Last I heard they flew to DF, and Germany had closed their borders and the couple couldn't leave MX. Don't know what happened.

Just saying. You don't want to get sick down there. Esp. since you're flying.

JZ - 1-18-2022 at 03:38 PM

I've traveled extensively during Covid.

Personally, with Omicron I wouldn't fly into Baja right now. Drive in, sure.

Hopefully by the end of Feb we'll be in a much better place.


[Edited on 1-18-2022 by JZ]

100X - 1-18-2022 at 03:40 PM

Paul, I for one am very glad you decided to make the trip, and it sounds like you have taken every reasonable precaution and step you can.

I am sure you are vaccinated and plenty careful, and with Omicron the vast majority of current cases down here and no where near as dangerous as earlier variants, you should be fine.

We are only 100 miles or so away, and although leaving during your stay, believe we can find you a place to stay for 5 days in the unlikelihood a worst case emergency does arise.

I would even go so far to say that if such a situation arose there would be several Nomads that would help you find an appropriate solution.



JZ - 1-18-2022 at 03:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 100X  
Paul, I for one am very glad you decided to make the trip, and it sounds like you have taken every reasonable precaution and step you can.

I am sure you are vaccinated and plenty careful, and with Omicron the vast majority of current cases down here and no where near as dangerous as earlier variants, you should be fine.

We are only 100 miles or so away, and although leaving during your stay, believe we can find you a place to stay for 5 days in the unlikelihood a worst case emergency does arise.

I would even go so far to say that if such a situation arose there would be several Nomads that would help you find an appropriate solution.



That is super kind of you to offer.

pauldavidmena - 1-19-2022 at 07:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Quote: Originally posted by 100X  
Paul, I for one am very glad you decided to make the trip, and it sounds like you have taken every reasonable precaution and step you can.

I am sure you are vaccinated and plenty careful, and with Omicron the vast majority of current cases down here and no where near as dangerous as earlier variants, you should be fine.

We are only 100 miles or so away, and although leaving during your stay, believe we can find you a place to stay for 5 days in the unlikelihood a worst case emergency does arise.

I would even go so far to say that if such a situation arose there would be several Nomads that would help you find an appropriate solution.



That is super kind of you to offer.



For all of the rancor we see on BN (as well as the complaining about said rancor), there are some very decent, generous people on this board who instinctively help fellow Nomads, or in my case Nomads-in-training. I'm quite grateful.

Alm - 1-19-2022 at 08:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
.
Yes - this is for air arrivals only, as far as I know. Theoretically the quarantine time is 5 days or a negative test. I'll be flying into Cabo on Feb 3 and leaving on Feb 11. Unfortunately I don't have a place in Baja and will only be renting a casita via AirBnB. We do have appointments to take the tests in Todos Santos within 24 hours of the flight, and have a Plan B in the event of a positive test, but there will still be quite a bit of scrambling involved beyond just having a place to quarantine.

Does CDC say 5 days? It takes 5-7 days to develop symptoms, don't remember CDC guidelines for quarantine. Recovery - until you're well and don't shed the virus anymore - takes a bit longer than 5 days.

Omicron doesn't give much reason for complacency. It is less deadly than Alpha and Delta - 2 times less, 3 times? not clear yet - but it's also more contagious, the latter partly negates the former. And Delta is still there. Mortality is lagging by about one month behind the cases spikes. Besides, mortality isn't everything, we've been there before, long-term (read - permanent) complications upon recovery are common. I know people who developed lung problems after they've recovered and couldn't breathe normally in Colorado where they lived.

elgatoloco - 1-19-2022 at 11:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
.
Yes - this is for air arrivals only, as far as I know. Theoretically the quarantine time is 5 days or a negative test. I'll be flying into Cabo on Feb 3 and leaving on Feb 11. Unfortunately I don't have a place in Baja and will only be renting a casita via AirBnB. We do have appointments to take the tests in Todos Santos within 24 hours of the flight, and have a Plan B in the event of a positive test, but there will still be quite a bit of scrambling involved beyond just having a place to quarantine.

Does CDC say 5 days? It takes 5-7 days to develop symptoms, don't remember CDC guidelines for quarantine. Recovery - until you're well and don't shed the virus anymore - takes a bit longer than 5 days.



Google

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/quaran...

pauldavidmena - 1-20-2022 at 06:26 AM

Five days was what St. Jude's hospital in Todos Santos - who will be conducting the test - told me was the required waiting period between the positive test and the recommended remediation:
Quote:

If you do come out positive either one of you or both, you would need to quarantine 5 days and then come in for an antibodies and a dr's note


I'm not 100% sure what is meant by "[an] antibodies", but I assume it means a retest. I have to wonder whether or not I could have a second test after 24 hours (instead of waiting 5 days) and - if it ends up being negative - I could use that test result to board a plane back to the U.S.?